Transgender rightsFollow

Used to ********** to knee caps, until I took an arrow to the...

Hmm, I don't think that will work.

Edited, Mar 29th 2013 6:55pm by TirithRR

Clearly, we need to cover up those leaves! Sheesh! Think of the children...

How else are you going to differentiate if you're differentiating if you have nothing to measure it by? Why even differentiate in the first place?



Both. By the fact that you're arguing the idea that bathrooms, locker rooms, dorms, schools, insurances, statistics, etc. are all done by gender as opposed to something measurable demonstrates your general lack of understanding.



I didn't create those definitions, I merely provided the socially accepted definitions. It's nice to see you finally coming around that dictionaries, encyclopedias, etc. are the source of definitions.



Of course. So, based on that definition, note the reproduction organs part, what makes you think the men/boys labels for a urinating/defecating room are based on personality traits as opposed to the urinating/defecating organs? Also note that everyone urinates/defecates.

Are you suggesting that one room is for people who like pink and the other room is for people who like blue? Those are gender traits. How does one know if they are "female" enough to use the women's bathroom? How does one know if another is in violation? If no one cares, then why does it exist?



You're in denial. Men use men bathrooms because they have urinals, because men have penises that allow them to pee standing. I would argue that most men urinate standing over sitting. Likewise, women use women bathrooms because they are more stalls with no urinals because they sit down and urinate because they have vaginas.

According to your logic, all bathrooms would look alike.



Skin color is not comparable to a sexuality. Try again.



Each of those scenarios have measurements that determine guilt or innocence. Just because they are more difficult to determine, doesn't mean that they don't exist. To have a rule that you can't measure contradicts the existence of having them.

huh?

LOL, dictionaries do not just make up defintions. They are not the source of anything. They are used for REFERENCE.

That's usually what those labels refer to.
If they go into the women's bathroom, then they are.

And most trans women sit down to pee, so i guess it still makes sense for them to use the women's bathroom.


lol, i didn't make such a comparison.

Really? So how do we measure someone's thoughts? We don't, we take a guess based on whatever information is available, and go with whatever seems most likely. Why is it such a problem do the same here?

See my brussel sprouts comment. It *is* a problem. I get that it happens, but that doesn't mean that it's right, much less that we should use it as a model for the rules of our society.



Except that 99.8% use the bathroom that matches their sex, not their gender. Their gender just happens to match their sex as well. Trust me, as a non-trans male, I don't think "I feel male, so I use the mens restroom". I think "I have a *****, therefore I use the mens restroom". The distinction between gender and sex only applies to transgender people, which is why your whole line of reasoning doesn't make sense. The overwhelming percentage of the entire population determines who should use which restroom based on the genitalia involved. Seriously.



That's great, but it doesn't address what I was saying. The reason we have urinals in the mens restroom but not the womens is because we assume that people with penises will use the mens restroom, and people with vaginas will use the womens restroom, so it makes sense to put urinals in the mens room, but not the womens.. How the hell did you completely fail to get that? You need to step outside your own trans world and think about how the rest of society looks at things sometime.

Very muddled thinking on your part there IMO. Stay focused!



Great! So we agree that being a member of a minority group does not entitle you to violate the rules and regulations that everyone else has to follow. That was the point I was making.




Yes. Except I suspect you aren't even aware that what you're arguing is the equivalent of saying that black men must use the mens restrooms, and black women must use the womens restroom, but white men and women can use any restrooms they want. This is why I said that you are arguing for discrimination under the guise of arguing against it. You are saying that we must treat transgendered people differently than everyone else, instead of treating them the same as everyone else.

Interestingly enough, you also argued in support of treating gay people differently than straight as well, so this would appear to be a pattern. So I'm curious, how do you decide which groups in society should get special treatment? People you like? People who are like you? How does that make you any different from a guy wearing a white sheet and burning crosses on someone's lawn? Aren't you still being bigoted? It doesn't stop being bigotry based on who you favor and oppose btw.

Edited, Mar 29th 2013 6:13pm by gbaji

You are saying that we would have urinals in women's bathrooms if it was expected that people with penises would go in such bathrooms. I explained why we would not. How does that not address what you said? Urinals are put in the men's bathrooms because it is expected that many people who go into that bathroom will make use of them. They are convenient for customers, and even save money by using less water, and being much faster to use, thus allowing more people to use a smaller bathroom. Therefore it makes sense to install them, from a financial stand point. Making customers happy, and saving money at the same time is something most businesses like doing.

They are not put in the women's bathroom because it is expected that virtually no one would use them there. That people with penises might use the women's bathroom isn't going to effect a different decision here; either they wouldn't use a urinal even if there was one in the women's bathroom, or they are such a small minority that it doesn't make sense to install urinals. There's simply not enough demand for urinals in women's bathrooms. Why would anyone ever waste money and space installing them if no one wants them? It just wouldn't make sense, except maybe for a bathroom that is likely to only be used by pre-op trans women, but even then, as i've explained, most still wouldn't use them anyway.

No, i'm arguing that everyone should be able to use the bathroom that matches their gender, kind of like how it already works in the real world.

I don't recall arguing that trans people should be free to use any bathroom they want. Could you please link the post where i said that?

Huh? Yes it does. Bigotry is hatred, or intolerance for someone who is different. Thinking some group of people is better than everyone else isn't bigotry.

I don't think ************* falls under the transgender issue.

Okay.

Society has labeled those parts as "indecent" and/or private, so much so that you can be arrested/fined/etc. for displaying those parts. A movie with a 5 minute sex scene will receive a higher rating movie than a 2 hour gore fest of violence. The same does not hold true for leaves, kneecaps, elbows or anything else.

I'll say again. I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST NUDE MODELS. I'm merely pointing out the fact that given our society, there is no artistic value in the inclusion of those body parts. It is impossible to draw EVERYTHING in any given class, so the exclusion of drawing a medieval beheading, slave lynching, a woman being raped, the spearing of children by the Japanese, etc. doesn't make you any less of an artist.

Maine Principal's Association writes policy to address transgenders in high school sport.

Sounds like a challenge if I ever heard one. I bet we can still make a dirty movie using nothing but those three things.