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#102 Mar 08 2013 at 5:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Elinda wrote:
cidbahamut wrote:


I'd wager that more often than not the answer is because they are different people, and not, as a lot of feminists would like to believe, because they are different genders.

Edited, Mar 8th 2013 4:28pm by cidbahamut

They are different people.

And when you average out all the wages of all the different people at all the different education levels, women earn about 70% of what men do (in the US) across the board.

This is fact.

You can argue about why they make less; Maybe they don't work at jobs that are worth as much. Maybe they have to take time out of their ladder climbing to have babies. Maybe they're even paid less simply because they have boobs. But to simply declare that the whole deal is made up by feminists is stupid...and sexist.

And that's not at all what I did, but thank you for demonstrating one of the things about feminism that makes it insufferable.

Feminism is not infallible, and pointing out potential holes in the rhetoric does not make me sexist/misogynist/whatever, but if anyone expresses anything other than complete agreement, they get branded as some sort of heretic.

The whole movement hinges on an innate desire to be angry at something. In this case it just happens to be anyone who had the audacity to be born with a *****.

You want to talk about ending discrimination against women? I'm totally on board with that.
You want to talk about feminism? **** off back to tumblr.
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#103 Mar 08 2013 at 5:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Belkira wrote:
I agree. So lets close the gender wage gap and stop objectifying women. Win/win!
Or women could ask for better starting pay instead of settling for the lowball first offer and be more aggressive about raises while simultaneously objectifying men and we'd also have equality. Smiley: nod
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#104 Mar 08 2013 at 5:14 PM Rating: Decent
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I have a friend she applied to a few places, was offered a job, she accepted one, a day later another place offered her a job for 7 dollars less, but it was closer to home. She took the lesser paying closer to home job.

Things like that never mess with the results right?

And Yes I know there is a pay disparity but how many woman take lower pay for other intangible benefits? (Closer to home, more lenient work hours, better benefits, etc) Not saying this is always the case but from my point of view, I will take a higher paying job with less QoL benefits than a lower paying job with more QoL benefits.

Edited, Mar 8th 2013 5:17pm by BeanX
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#105 Mar 08 2013 at 5:19 PM Rating: Default
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BeanX wrote:
I have a friend she applied to a few places, was offered a job, she accepted a day later another place offered her a job for 7 dollars less, but it was closer to home. She took the lesser paying closer to home job.

Things like that never mess with the results right?

And Yes I know there is a pay disparity but how many woman take lower pay for other untangible benefits? (Closer to home, more lenient work hours, better benefits, etc) Not saying this is always the case but from my point of view, I will take a higher paying job with less QoL benefits than a lower paying job with more QoL benefits.

I'd actually say it's a wash since I'm sure men do it as well. Heck I've not bothered to look for a better paying job than the one I currently have because I can literally walk to work and management has been very accommodating in terms of schedule. It doesn't hurt that the people are pretty agreeable either. That said, the pay is not so great for what the position is, but for now it's a trade-off I've made so I'm sure there are others doing the same.
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#106 Mar 08 2013 at 5:22 PM Rating: Good
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cidbahamut wrote:


You want to talk about ending discrimination against women? I'm totally on board with that.
You want to talk about feminism? @#%^ off back to tumblr.
Ending discrimination against women is feminism.
This is your quote:
Cid wrote:
TLW wrote:
TL;DR While there is some legitimate cause for concern, a lot of times people are looking to be offended and get off on getting angry.


This is feminism in a nutshell as far as I can tell.

If someone is looking to be offended they're not exhibiting feminism they're exhibiting immaturity.


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#107 Mar 08 2013 at 5:22 PM Rating: Decent
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cidbahamut wrote:
Elinda wrote:
cidbahamut wrote:


I'd wager that more often than not the answer is because they are different people, and not, as a lot of feminists would like to believe, because they are different genders.

Edited, Mar 8th 2013 4:28pm by cidbahamut

They are different people.

And when you average out all the wages of all the different people at all the different education levels, women earn about 70% of what men do (in the US) across the board.

This is fact.

You can argue about why they make less; Maybe they don't work at jobs that are worth as much. Maybe they have to take time out of their ladder climbing to have babies. Maybe they're even paid less simply because they have boobs. But to simply declare that the whole deal is made up by feminists is stupid...and sexist.

And that's not at all what I did, but thank you for demonstrating one of the things about feminism that makes it insufferable.

Feminism is not infallible, and pointing out potential holes in the rhetoric does not make me sexist/misogynist/whatever, but if anyone expresses anything other than complete agreement, they get branded as some sort of heretic.

The whole movement hinges on an innate desire to be angry at something. In this case it just happens to be anyone who had the audacity to be born with a *****.

You want to talk about ending discrimination against women? I'm totally on board with that.
You want to talk about feminism? @#%^ off back to tumblr.

QED Smiley: nod
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#108 Mar 08 2013 at 5:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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It appears that some people are confused about how the gender wage gap is calculated.

It also appears that some people have a problem with individuals and like to stereotype a valid political movement with a certain type of personality that they dislike.
#109 Mar 08 2013 at 5:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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cidbahamut wrote:
The whole movement hinges on an innate desire to be angry at something. In this case it just happens to be anyone who had the audacity to be born with a *****.


Yeah, I'm pretty sure that the whole movement of feminism doesn't hinge on "an innate desire to be angry at something." I'm going out on a limb here, I know.

Fuck you're dumb.
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#110 Mar 08 2013 at 5:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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BeanX wrote:
And Yes I know there is a pay disparity but how many woman take lower pay for other intangible benefits? (Closer to home, more lenient work hours, better benefits, etc) .

If it helps even things out I did this. I wanted a family, so I worked hard to get myself into a job with flexible hours and great benefits. We moved so I would have a shorter commute and could do more with the kids. It was a priority, more-so than salary.

But you're right, I don't think most men think that way. There's more of an empathesis on take-home pay, and promotion opportunities; but hey that's how we're judged by society anyway. Good family man doesn't seem to ring as loudly as well paid in this world. One more piece of the puzzle that could use some resolving really if we're working to breakdown problematic stereotypes.

Edited, Mar 8th 2013 3:28pm by someproteinguy
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#111 Mar 08 2013 at 5:28 PM Rating: Default
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cidbahamut wrote:
Elinda wrote:

You want to talk about ending discrimination against women? I'm totally on board with that.
You want to talk about feminism? @#%^ off back to tumblr.
Ending discrimination against women is feminism.

Not in my experience.

Feminism always seems to be about being really angry at people who have a *****, playing the victim card, and raging about the patriarchy.
It's fueled by the same fires that power heated MMO forum arguments. The desire to be correct and lord it over others, all the while playing the victim or rubbing your opponent's nose in the fact that you're right and therefor better than them. I recognize the pattern and it's very similar to what I see on MMORPG boards elsewhere. It's only superficially about ending discrimination against women.

Now there are people out there doing what they can to end discrimination against women who apply the label "feminism" to what they do, but by and large "feminism" is a movement of vitriol rather than progress and the two movements are conflated in their terminology.

Edited, Mar 8th 2013 6:29pm by cidbahamut
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#112 Mar 08 2013 at 5:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Belkira wrote:
It also appears that some people have a problem with individuals and like to stereotype a valid political movement with a certain type of personality that they dislike.


Cid went from doubting that the gender wage gap was due entirely and solely to gender differences to Elinda accusing him of denying the gap even existed and implying he was sexist and stupid.

This behavior (Elinda's) is what leads to the perception that most (vocal) feminists are rabid man haters who latch on to the movement as a vessel to distribute that anger. It's less of a stereotype and more an observation. Not all feminists are this way, and I think most Asylumites are culturally aware enough to admit that there are some political, social and work related issues stemming from said gender differences, but the feminist movement generally seems more about blaming men for all the world's female equality disparity. It's not helpful, and certainly doesn't do well to reach any potential male audience.
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You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#113 Mar 08 2013 at 5:31 PM Rating: Good
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cidbahamut wrote:
cidbahamut wrote:
Elinda wrote:

You want to talk about ending discrimination against women? I'm totally on board with that.
You want to talk about feminism? @#%^ off back to tumblr.
Ending discrimination against women is feminism.

Not in my experience.

Feminism always seems to be about being really angry at people who have a *****, playing the victim card, and raging about the patriarchy.
It's fueled by the same fires that power heated MMO forum arguments. The desire to be correct and lord it over others, all the while playing the victim or rubbing your opponent's nose in the fact that you're right and therefor better than them. I recognize the pattern and it's very similar to what I see on MMORPG boards elsewhere. It's only superficially about ending discrimination against women.

Now there are people out there doing what they can to end discrimination against women who apply the label "feminism" to what they do, but by and large "feminism" is a movement of vitriol rather than progress and the two movements are conflated in their terminology.


Your understanding of feminism seems to be entirely predicated on a few anecdotal MMORPG experiences that you've had. Do you realize that it's a much larger movement, with a great deal of history behind it?
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#114 Mar 08 2013 at 5:32 PM Rating: Good
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Congratulations. You've just bought into the propaganda that sexists use to keep sexism alive and well.

ETA: This post was aimed at Cid, but apparently applies to BD as well.

Edited, Mar 8th 2013 5:34pm by Belkira

Edit 2: bad =\= BD. ******* autocorrect.

Edited, Mar 8th 2013 5:35pm by Belkira
#115 Mar 08 2013 at 5:37 PM Rating: Decent
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One of the reasons why sexism is much harder to fight is because of its broad definition as opposed to racism.
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#116cidbahamut, Posted: Mar 08 2013 at 5:46 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Thank you for putting it more eloquently than I could.
#117 Mar 08 2013 at 5:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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The idea that feminism is truly represented by only the people using the name to be a "man-hater" is the same type of mindset that all Muslims are terrorists. Or all men are rapists. Or all Catholic priests are pedophiles.

I don't understand why people can understand the "one bad apple shouldn't spoil the whole bunch" with anything BUT feminism.
#118 Mar 08 2013 at 5:58 PM Rating: Good
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cidbahamut wrote:
BrownDuck wrote:
Belkira wrote:
It also appears that some people have a problem with individuals and like to stereotype a valid political movement with a certain type of personality that they dislike.


Cid went from doubting that the gender wage gap was due entirely and solely to gender differences to Elinda accusing him of denying the gap even existed and implying he was sexist and stupid.

This behavior (Elinda's) is what leads to the perception that most (vocal) feminists are rabid man haters who latch on to the movement as a vessel to distribute that anger. It's less of a stereotype and more an observation. Not all feminists are this way, and I think most Asylumites are culturally aware enough to admit that there are some political, social and work related issues stemming from said gender differences, but the feminist movement generally seems more about blaming men for all the world's female equality disparity. It's not helpful, and certainly doesn't do well to reach any potential male audience.

Thank you for putting it more eloquently than I could.
My behavior?

Are you serious?

He made sexist stupid comments - not my fault.
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#119 Mar 08 2013 at 5:59 PM Rating: Default
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Belkira wrote:
The idea that feminism is truly represented by only the people using the name to be a "man-hater"


I certainly didn't say that. What I did say is that portion of the group seems to be the most outspoken.

Quote:
I don't understand why people can understand the "one bad apple shouldn't spoil the whole bunch" with anything BUT feminism.


What part of "Not all feminists are this way, and I think most Asylumites are culturally aware enough to admit that there are some political, social and work related issues stemming from said gender differences" was so remarkably unclear?

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#120 Mar 08 2013 at 6:00 PM Rating: Good
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the wife just finished ranting about how incompetent WALL-E is and how those kinds of men bug her to no end. Suddenly something that seemed like an interesting concept in my mind went up in smoke. Smiley: lol

Heh, Flea told me once about some boyfriend who had some misfortune befall him (lost his job or some such). He pretty much broke down and was like "What am I ever going to do?" and that it was a huge turn-off to see some dude essentially begging her for rescue. (Note that this is different from saying "This sucks but I'm going to man up and soldier on; hope you support me"). I can't imagine a plot where the woman has to rescue some basket case of a man would hold much interest for her.
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#121 Mar 08 2013 at 6:02 PM Rating: Default
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Elinda wrote:
He made sexist stupid comments - not my fault.


Anyone who disagrees with your assessment is sexist or stupid (or both). Pretty typical, I'd say.
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#122 Mar 08 2013 at 6:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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BrownDuck wrote:
Belkira wrote:
The idea that feminism is truly represented by only the people using the name to be a "man-hater"


I certainly didn't say that. What I did say is that portion of the group seems to be the most outspoken.

Quote:
I don't understand why people can understand the "one bad apple shouldn't spoil the whole bunch" with anything BUT feminism.


What part of "Not all feminists are this way, and I think most Asylumites are culturally aware enough to admit that there are some political, social and work related issues stemming from said gender differences" was so remarkably unclear?



The part that you conveniently left off.

Quote:
...but the feminist movement generally seems more about blaming men for all the world's female equality disparity.




ETA: also this wasn't aimed solely at you, but at CID as well. Mostly, even, as you only jumped in to defend his honor.

Edited, Mar 8th 2013 6:06pm by Belkira
#123 Mar 08 2013 at 6:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Belkira wrote:
The part that you conveniently left off.
Quote:
...but the feminist movement generally seems more about blaming men for all the world's female equality disparity.


So it's not OK for me to not reference a particular part of a paragraph, but it's perfectly ok for you to isolate that same section and make a generalized statement in response? That's a bit of a double standard, don't you think? The message is the sum of it's parts, not any given part by itself. Quit being a dunce.
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You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#124 Mar 08 2013 at 6:08 PM Rating: Good
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BrownDuck wrote:
Elinda wrote:
He made sexist stupid comments - not my fault.


Anyone who disagrees with your assessment is sexist or stupid (or both). Pretty typical, I'd say.

I pointed out the parts that were stupid and sexist.

...and no anyone who disagrees with me isn't called names.

Is anyone who disagrees with you rated down? (no need to answer that - it's rhetorical)
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#125 Mar 08 2013 at 6:08 PM Rating: Decent
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BrownDuck wrote:
Elinda wrote:
He made sexist stupid comments - not my fault.


Anyone who disagrees with your assessment is sexist or stupid (or both). Pretty typical, I'd say.

Exactly.

If you don't 100% agree with feminists, you're a dirty heathen. No criticism is allowed. Ever.

Didn't you get the memo? Critical thinking makes you sexist.
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#126 Mar 08 2013 at 6:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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WTF are you people rattling about?
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#127 Mar 08 2013 at 6:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
WTF are you people rattling about?

Elinda's the bad type of feminist.
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#128 Mar 08 2013 at 6:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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BD: So you don't think that the feminist movement seems more about blaming men for all of womenkind's ills? You asked me why I responded the way I did. I answered you. I also added that my post was mostly in reference to cid it was an edit, so maybe you missed it.

Cid: It's not disagreeing with the feminist ideology that is the issue. It's painting all feminists with the "man-hater" brush.

If you think that women should have the right to vote, get equal pay, and should not be discriminated against then guess what? You're a feminist.
#129 Mar 08 2013 at 6:38 PM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
WTF are you people rattling about?

Elinda's the bad type of feminist.

Serra kicks ***.
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#130 Mar 08 2013 at 6:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Is anyone who disagrees with you rated down? (no need to answer that - it's rhetorical)
Unless something changed lately, Stubbs is NORATED, so if you get the red arrow, it ain't him.Smiley: schooled



Sorta on topic: In my experience the virulent, castration-squad man-haters are to the feminist movement what the Teabaggers are to the GOP. They don't represent the majority, but it's hard to hear the resonable discussions over the howling of the loonies.


Edited, Mar 8th 2013 5:51pm by Bijou
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#131 Mar 08 2013 at 6:44 PM Rating: Good
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Friar Bijou wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Is anyone who disagrees with you rated down? (no need to answer that - it's rhetorical)
Unless something changed lately, Stubbs is NORATED, so if you get the red arrow, it ain't him.Smiley: schooled
My apologies then.



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#132 Mar 08 2013 at 6:51 PM Rating: Good
Elinda wrote:
Friar Bijou wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Is anyone who disagrees with you rated down? (no need to answer that - it's rhetorical)
Unless something changed lately, Stubbs is NORATED, so if you get the red arrow, it ain't him.Smiley: schooled
My apologies then.
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ALSO: Wasn't me either!!Smiley: grin
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#133 Mar 08 2013 at 7:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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#134 Mar 08 2013 at 8:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
You want to talk about ending discrimination against women? I'm totally on board with that.
You want to talk about feminism? @#%^ off back to tumblr.


Right, a few teenagers on tumblr have a stronger claim on the label than, say, the suffragettes. And you have no problem with black people, you just hate ********

Quote:
Feminism is not infallible, and pointing out potential holes in the rhetoric does not make me sexist/misogynist/whatever, but if anyone expresses anything other than complete agreement, they get branded as some sort of heretic.


Absurd. Feminism is not even slightly homogneous, and as a subject of academic writing is consistently self-critical. There are certain things you can say that will get you laughed at; this is the power of language.
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#135 Mar 08 2013 at 8:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
WTF are you people rattling about?


Their disappointing ***** sizes as far as I can tell.

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#136 Mar 08 2013 at 8:12 PM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
WTF are you people rattling about?
Their disappointing ***** sizes as far as I can tell.
Or all their cycles synced up at once.
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#137 Mar 08 2013 at 8:19 PM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
WTF are you people rattling about?


Their disappointing ***** sizes as far as I can tell.


Shame isn't enough, Samira. They have to feel guilty for having them, too.

Wait, ****, catholic church beat us to it again.
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#138 Mar 08 2013 at 10:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Feminism always seems to be about being really angry at people who have a *****, playing the victim card, and raging about the patriarchy.

People who make this argument always seem to be ignorant uneducated men with tiny ****** In my experience. Also, women aren't paid less on average because they chose some value other than money, or because they choose to stay home and raise kids, they aren't bad negotiators who won't quit and will work for less pay. Women aren't valued appropriately by the market because of bias. It's not complicated. Surprising as it may seem, given the last 100 years of social science, you fucking idiots aren't the first ones to have these sorts of epiphanies. You can fairly trivially control for these factors, when you do, it turns out women are paid less. The most likely reason seems to be that men make most of the wage decisions, and people are more likely to pay higher wages to people who look like them. Sounds idiotically simple, but sometimes that's how it works. If you're not a white guy, you aren't getting the white guy money.

Please, I beg of you, regale us with your fascinating anecdotes of the woman you know who earns more money than you and argue that disproves metric tons of studies. Be a white guy, though, or I probably won't pay any attention.
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#139 Mar 08 2013 at 10:57 PM Rating: Good
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Be a white guy, though, or I probably won't pay any attention.


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#140 Mar 08 2013 at 11:02 PM Rating: Good
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Varus will be pleased to know you swing that way.

Sure, laugh at him now, but when he perfects okra based **** lube, then who is going to be the **** of the jokes? What? Still Varus? I see.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#141 Mar 09 2013 at 12:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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There seem to be a lot of people who are anti-feminism because of the 3 or 4 most outrageous examples of it that they've seen on the internet.

These people also seem to take great offense at some (perhaps reaching) feminist arguments or opinion blogs that cause essentially zero real-life harm to them. While ignoring the tremendous real-life gains that feminism has produced over the past 50 years.
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#142 Mar 09 2013 at 3:59 AM Rating: Decent
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trickybeck wrote:

There seem to be a lot of people who are anti-feminism because of the 3 or 4 most outrageous examples of it that they've seen on the internet.

These people also seem to take great offense at some (perhaps reaching) feminist arguments or opinion blogs that cause essentially zero real-life harm to them. While ignoring the tremendous real-life gains that feminism has produced over the past 50 years.

Like Bijou mentioned, the feminist loonies are the most visible and vocal minority. You don't hear about any gains because they did it to get it done. They weren't in it to be famous and write tons of books and make the talk show circuits spewing vitriol. I don't have a problem with the feminist movement. I do have a problem with individual "feminists" who say that because I'm male I'm a rapist and spend all my time and energy trying to make thier lives miserable.

And I'm sure its not all women, but when they say they want equality, they don't want to be treated like men in all circumstances. Same job and wages, sure sounds good. But if you don't treat them like women in the dating/romance department, they'll rage. I'll stop paying for dinner, I won't hold a door open for you, I will be loud and proud with bodily noises, just like when I'm with a group of guys. You don't want to be treated any different because of your gender? You got it.


Edited, Mar 9th 2013 5:10am by xantav
#143 Mar 09 2013 at 6:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Elinda wrote:
Friar Bijou wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Is anyone who disagrees with you rated down? (no need to answer that - it's rhetorical)
Unless something changed lately, Stubbs is NORATED, so if you get the red arrow, it ain't him.Smiley: schooled
My apologies then.

Duly noted.
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#144 Mar 09 2013 at 7:02 AM Rating: Decent
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xantav wrote:
Like Bijou BrownDuck mentioned, the feminist loonies are the most visible and vocal minority. You don't hear about any gains because they did it to get it done. They weren't in it to be famous and write tons of books and make the talk show circuits spewing vitriol. I don't have a problem with the feminist movement. I do have a problem with individual "feminists" who say that because I'm male I'm a rapist and spend all my time and energy trying to make thier lives miserable.


Exactly. The movement itself may be genuine, and I don't dismiss the justification for it, but like so many before it, it has been hijacked by mostly crazies who would use it as a platform for their own personal brand of lunacy.
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gbaji wrote:
You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#145 Mar 09 2013 at 7:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Like Bijou mentioned, the feminist loonies are the most visible and vocal minority. You don't hear about any gains because they did it to get it done. They weren't in it to be famous and write tons of books and make the talk show circuits spewing vitriol. I don't have a problem with the feminist movement. I do have a problem with individual "feminists" who say that because I'm male I'm a rapist and spend all my time and energy trying to make thier lives miserable.


There's tons of feminist literature out there that doesn't come close to the things you complain about. These are fringe positions. Most feminists are neither vitriolic man-haters nor, ahem, 'men of action ' that get things done without saying a word. Saying words is central to getting things done.

This is the power of language.

Quote:
And I'm sure its not all women, but when they say they want equality, they don't want to be treated like men in all circumstances. Same job and wages, sure sounds good. But if you don't treat them like women in the dating/romance department, they'll rage. I'll stop paying for dinner, I won't hold a door open for you, I will be loud and proud with bodily noises, just like when I'm with a group of guys. You don't want to be treated any different because of your gender? You got it.


Equality implies a comparator, which is problematic even for arch-liberals in certain areas - e.g. pregnancy, where a comparison is difficult. For many, it is problematic in and of itself. This is one of many debates in feminism you'd be aware of if you'd ever read anything about it; I guarantee more has been written about this than whether all men are rapists or whatever it is, probably by a factor of thousands.

I have to say that personally, as a man, I'd prefer you not be 'loud and proud'; farting isn't funny, and being around people that think it is is a kind of purgatory. I hold doors for anyone immediately behind me, rather than slam them in their face. This is the power of courtesy.

You seem kind of angry, though, in the way you express yourself. What you see as equality in dating you set up as your kind of vengeance at women asking for equal pay. You construct 'not all women' (the majority, then) as not wanting real equality, because they haven't thought it through like you have. People might not pay for their dinner! They're going to get what they want, though.

And then they'll be sorry.
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#146 Mar 09 2013 at 8:57 AM Rating: Good
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BrownDuck wrote:
xantav wrote:
Like Bijou BrownDuck mentioned, the feminist loonies are the most visible and vocal minority. You don't hear about any gains because they did it to get it done. They weren't in it to be famous and write tons of books and make the talk show circuits spewing vitriol. I don't have a problem with the feminist movement. I do have a problem with individual "feminists" who say that because I'm male I'm a rapist and spend all my time and energy trying to make thier lives miserable.


Exactly. The movement itself may be genuine, and I don't dismiss the justification for it, but like so many before it, it has been hijacked by mostly crazies who would use it as a platform for their own personal brand of lunacy.

Yeah sure. Just like the woman who wrote the article that this op started. Was her analysis crazy? Maybe, maybe not. There were some salient points. I'd call it misdirected more than anything.

Was it vitriolic? It didn't really sound that way to me.

Did you happen to notice that before this thread was derailed with rants about man-hating feminazis (the actual derail gets credited to Locke/Cid), all the women who responded to the op disagreed with her analysis?

If I decided to use Varus as my measure of masculinity (cuz he was loud and vocal and visible) and based on that measure I determined that all men were woman-haters, would I be justified in my analysis?

The 'movement' is genuine if that's what you want to call it. There are still gender inequalities that are real civil rights issues (they have nothing to do with who pays for dinner, who opens the door or even whether all men are rapists or not). If you want to discuss the topic further you might want to bone up on it a bit.









Edited, Mar 9th 2013 4:32pm by Elinda
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#147 Mar 09 2013 at 9:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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How bout you have a more to-the-point article about feminism:
excerpt for the masses:
Julia Baird wrote:
Second, there is little we do not owe to the tireless, sometimes dangerous efforts of those who have gone before us. The debate over the word feminism can often be a distraction, but it would be timely to remind the 'I'm not a feminist BUT' women that, in history there is no "but".
If you believe you owe nothing to feminists, then best you hand your property over to your husband or father, give up your job, stop voting, renounce contraception or pain relief in childbirth, pull out of school and university and start mopping floors at home whilst begging male relatives for a dowry.
As to wanting equal treatment, plus old-fashioned courtesies on top, I should hope women behave like me and my friends: If I am first to a door, I hold it for the people behind me, and if some-one else is first, I thank them as I pass through before them. I pay for my own dinner, unless it's a date or celebration. Then the person initiating the invitation to the special date pays, whether that's the man or the woman. Birthday boys and girls never pay their own food bill.

Edited, Mar 9th 2013 10:19am by Aripyanfar
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#148 Mar 09 2013 at 9:23 AM Rating: Good
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This thread was better when it was about video games.
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#149 Mar 09 2013 at 9:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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Needs more TERA armor pics.
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#150 Mar 09 2013 at 9:31 AM Rating: Good
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Belkira wrote:
It appears that some people are confused about how the gender wage gap is calculated.
I know I am. I wan to see data, that clearly accounts for women that take time off to have children. i want to see comparisons between women and men who are the primary care givers for their children, as in they're the one who stays home if a child is sick and they have no sitter. And a separate comparison for those who put their career first over their family.

I don't dispute that there's a wage gap, I just want to make sure that when we're comparing things, with all things being equal, we're actually comparing things where all things being equal.
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#151 Mar 09 2013 at 9:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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Trope #12: Elf Panties!

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