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#177 Dec 18 2012 at 10:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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paulsol wrote:
One failed attempt at blowing up a 'plane with liquid explosives 10 years ago and now the whole world is forbidden to travel with a bottle of shampoo or a drink of water and here some people are seriously having a debate as to whether having even more guns available would be an effective counter to the threat of guns being used against children in schools is just brilliant.


Well duh, it's simple economics. An airliner costs millions of dollars and probably has important business people on it. Kids really don't have any buying power, and half of them are probably welfare babies anyway. Smiley: disappointed

Smiley: tinfoilhat

His Excellency Aethien wrote:
I can't find an English article for it at the moment but the news here reported that since Belgium started enforcing a law that means you have to prove that you need a gun to be able to buy any sort of gun or rifle in 2006 deaths from gun shootings (murders and suicides) have halved from 134 in 2005 to 68 in 2010.


Why must you be so sensible? It really makes us look bad. Smiley: frown

Smasharoo wrote:
I've been thinking a lot over the past 15 years or so about why the US has more gun violence than other countries, correcting for gun availability. I think we're a gun culture because of our cultural heritage, for lack of a less pompous phrase, of the rugged individualist. Our fascination for solving problems with confrontation, for solving problems as individuals, for walking like a ******** MAN, for being a cowboy hero instead of a wussy negotiator, all contribute.

I don't know how you heal a culture.


You don't. It's integral to the big lie of the myth of American capitalism. If you remove the "America is magic and her people are fully self realized ubermenches" fantasy you get a brutal thuggish country who committed multiple instances of genocide, and lucked into a near perfect treasure trove of resources through an accident of geography. That's a much tougher sell as an explanation of why the US is the wealthiest nation on Earth than "American Exceptionalism".


Well, to be fair those European types had their chance with it. Thankfully they bought into the stereotype that the Americas were a resource-poor land with smaller/inferior animals and weak people. Not worth fighting for.

More for us. Smiley: grin


Edited, Dec 18th 2012 8:03am by someproteinguy
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#178 Dec 18 2012 at 10:14 AM Rating: Good
It's coming out that the bullets he used were designed to break up in the body in order to tear through bones & such.

Would someone more gun savvy than me explain why these kinds of bullets are available to anyone but police & military?
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#179 Dec 18 2012 at 10:22 AM Rating: Decent
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Now my wife wants me to get a gun. Smiley: frown Hopefully all my time playing shooters gives me an edge!
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#180 Dec 18 2012 at 10:23 AM Rating: Good
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Omegavegeta wrote:
It's coming out that the bullets he used were designed to break up in the body in order to tear through bones & such.

Would someone more gun savvy than me explain why these kinds of bullets are available to anyone but police & military?


Wiki says that Fragmenting bullets are used in hunting small vermin to ensure that no matter where you hit them they die instantly (more 'humane'). I'm sure the news report makes them seem like some super-bullet designed merely the maim large animals. I'm imagining "in order to tear through bones" is something slightly exaggerated.

Edited, Dec 18th 2012 11:24am by TirithRR
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#181 Dec 18 2012 at 10:24 AM Rating: Good
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Debalic wrote:
Now my wife wants me to get a gun. Smiley: frown Hopefully all my time playing shooters gives me an edge!


Remember to duck behind all waist-high walls/items as you travel.
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#182 Dec 18 2012 at 10:25 AM Rating: Good
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.223s are commonly used to hunt varmints as well. I don't know why, since there isn't too much of a varmint problem around here that necessitates hunting them. I do know they're lightweight rounds with high velocity that can cause shock in the target (or, if drugged up, make the target not even realize they've been shot).

And they're cheap to produce.
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#183 Dec 18 2012 at 10:25 AM Rating: Default
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Smasharoo wrote:
you get a brutal thuggish country who committed multiple instances of genocide


Genocide is a bit strong, unless I'm in need of a history lesson.
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#184 Dec 18 2012 at 10:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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Genocide is a bit strong, unless I'm in need of a history lesson.

It's that second one.
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#185 Dec 18 2012 at 10:30 AM Rating: Good
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Debalic wrote:
Now my wife wants me to get a gun. Smiley: frown Hopefully all my time playing shooters gives me an edge!
Yeah, when we go all anarchy and lawlessness I'm banking on 4+ years pvp experience in Warhammer to carry me. That and poisonous mushrooms.


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#186 Dec 18 2012 at 10:32 AM Rating: Decent
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It's coming out that the bullets he used were designed to break up in the body in order to tear through bones & such.

Would someone more gun savvy than me explain why these kinds of bullets are available to anyone but police & military


Because it's a good news story but meaningless in real life. None of the victims would have been skipping away whistling had they been shot with "normal" bullets. It's the high velocity chunks of metal ripping through the body that are the problem. Not the shape of them at impact.
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#187 Dec 18 2012 at 10:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Now my wife wants me to get a gun.

Tell her you don't need the gun and if she persists punch her in the face and say "see!"

(don't actually do that second part)
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#188 Dec 18 2012 at 10:36 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:

(don't actually do that second part)

Killjoy.
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#189 Dec 18 2012 at 10:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
Smasharoo wrote:

(don't actually do that second part)

punchKillJoy.

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#190 Dec 18 2012 at 10:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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Of course you don't do the second part. Only an idiot would.

That leaves a really visible bruise, punch her in the boob.
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#191 Dec 18 2012 at 10:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Omegavegeta wrote:
It's coming out that the bullets he used were designed to break up in the body in order to tear through bones & such.

Would someone more gun savvy than me explain why these kinds of bullets are available to anyone but police & military?


Because badass bullets and big guns make you feel like a man as this advert for the gun he used to kill the children with takes pains to point out. And feeling like a man is every American male's right. It's in the constitution or something.

Besides, would you seriously consider going out and hunting something as vicious and dangerous as a deer if you couldn't sit half a mile away and target it through a laser sight before blowing its head off? It's what real men do.

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#192 Dec 18 2012 at 11:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:
Tell her you don't need the gun and if she persists go on a killing spree with an axe made out of dynamite to prove how you'd just kill everyone with something else anyway
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#193 Dec 18 2012 at 11:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Smasharoo wrote:
Tell her you don't need the gun and if she persists go on a killing spree with an axe made out of dynamite to prove how you'd just kill everyone with something else anyway

Smiley: lol
#194 Dec 18 2012 at 1:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:
Genocide is a bit strong, unless I'm in need of a history lesson.

It's that second one.


By all means, at least toss me a keyword or two. Supposed location of this "genocide" would be sufficient.
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gbaji wrote:
You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#195 Dec 18 2012 at 1:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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He's presumably speaking at least in part of the US government's stance towards the American Indian throughout much of our history and its policy of subjugation, containment and elimination. Both of the people themselves and of their culture.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#196 Dec 18 2012 at 1:43 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
He's presumably speaking at least in part of the US government's stance towards the American Indian throughout much of our history and its policy of subjugation, containment and elimination. Both of the people themselves and of their culture.

If that's the sole reference, I disagree with its classification as genocide, but I'm not interested in debating the specifics, so... whatever.

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gbaji wrote:
You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#197 Dec 18 2012 at 1:47 PM Rating: Good
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There was also the Japanese, the commies, the blacks and the gays.

While many of the US groups with goals of ethnic/racial/political/religious elimination were not sanctified by the government they were tolerated.

Our government, of course, did attempt to eliminate the Native Americans. The act didn't call for death as a means of elimination. None-the-less tens of thousands died in a forced exile march.
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#198 Dec 18 2012 at 2:06 PM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
There was also the Japanese, the commies, the blacks and the gays.


Persecution != Genocide
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gbaji wrote:
You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#199 Dec 18 2012 at 2:14 PM Rating: Good
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BrownDuck wrote:
Elinda wrote:
There was also the Japanese, the commies, the blacks and the gays.


Persecution != Genocide

Including the Japanese and communists might be a stretch but certainly there have been socially accepted groups whose goal was the elimination of black people (the KKK) and the elimination of gayness (churches).

It all depends on what definition of indiscriminate you use.



Edited, Dec 18th 2012 9:14pm by Elinda
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#200 Dec 18 2012 at 2:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Elinda wrote:
BrownDuck wrote:
Elinda wrote:
There was also the Japanese, the commies, the blacks and the gays.


Persecution != Genocide

Including the Japanese and communists might be a stretch but certainly there have been socially accepted groups whose goal was the elimination of black people (the KKK) and the elimination of gayness (churches).

It all depends on what definition of indiscriminate you use.


Perhaps this wasn't clear to you. I was asking Smash about

Quote:
you get a brutal thuggish country who committed multiple instances of genocide


I interpret country to mean, officially, the official United States of America, and not a general reference to include specific sub cultures that represent only a portion of the American population. Indiscriminate is someone else's argument entirely.

Edited, Dec 18th 2012 2:21pm by BrownDuck
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gbaji wrote:
You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#201 Dec 18 2012 at 2:25 PM Rating: Decent
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BrownDuck wrote:


I interpret country to mean, officially, the official United States of America, and not a general reference to include specific sub cultures that represent only a portion of the American population. Indiscriminate is someone else's argument entirely.
Alright. Then all's I got is the Injuns.

Would teh War on Women count?


Edit - and my most sincere apologies for responding to a question that was for Smash - I'd suggest a pm in the future to avoid such misunderstandings. Smiley: rolleyes Besides Smash is probably busy wiping **** from butts.


Edited, Dec 18th 2012 9:27pm by Elinda
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