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The Rule of ReciprocationFollow

#1 Nov 26 2012 at 7:26 AM Rating: Good
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NPR featured a story this morning about giving and taking.

In 1974 this sociologist decided to see what would happen if he sent out 600 x-mas cards to random strangers. He got a more than 200 back - some including hand-written letters and family photos.

The Rule: Thou shall not take without giving in return

A much more practical application of the rule:

Quote:
If a server brings you a check and does not include a candy on the check tray, you will tip the server whatever it is that you feel the server deserves. "But if there's a mint on the tray, tips go up 3.3 percent," Cialdini says.

According to Cialdini, the researchers who did that study also discovered that if while delivering the tray with the mint the server paused, looked the customers in the eye, and then gave them a second mint while telling them the candy was specifically for them, "tips went through the roof."

Servers who gave a second mint got a 20 percent increase over their normal tip.


The story goes on to cite successful examples of groups essentially exploiting the rule of reciprocation - mostly to make money in the form of donations: Remembrance poppies, pre-printed labels holiday labels etc...all stuff you're given, without solicitation, in the hopes you'll feel obligated to donate to the cause in return.

For you x-mas celebrators, do you send out cards?

Is your card list based on cards you've received either this year or in the past?

Do you use and/or donate for those free 'personalized' address labels?

I send out holiday cards occasionally - not every year. I've found that people will reciprocate for 3 or 4 years before bumping you off the list.

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#2 Nov 26 2012 at 7:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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Flea sends out cards. Well, these days it's "Designs a card online and has them print and mail them to a list of people" rather than the olden days of writing out cards and addressing them and adding personal notes to each. Our list isn't really dependent upon anyone else sending us a card, partially because it's so painless to add another person to the list.

I've never used the unsolicited pre-printed charity labels. Flea donates to St. Jude's so they send them as well and we used to use those in our "pre-internet designed card" days. Now they just sit around until they get tossed.

Also, you totally snaked my usual Christmas-time sig Smiley: mad

Edited, Nov 26th 2012 7:51am by Jophiel
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#3 Nov 26 2012 at 8:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
NPR featured a story this morning about giving and taking.

In 1974 this sociologist decided to see what would happen if he sent out 600 x-mas cards to random strangers. He got a more than 200 back - some including hand-written letters and family photos.

That's $270 just in stamps today o_O
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#4 Nov 26 2012 at 8:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Obviously this calls for a government grant.
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#5 Nov 26 2012 at 8:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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3.3% more tip for a mint? No.
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#6 Nov 26 2012 at 8:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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What if it's served off the Hooters girl's boob?
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#7 Nov 26 2012 at 8:53 AM Rating: Good
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I'd tip extra if the server brought me some Trident gum. Starlight mints are terrible.

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#8 Nov 26 2012 at 9:31 AM Rating: Good
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trickybeck wrote:

I'd tip extra if the server brought me some Trident gum. Starlight mints are terrible.


The Andes mints are good. I don't think that the presence of mints influences my tip.

There's a Chinese place we go to that serves pineapple chunks with your bill. My husband loves the pineapple chunks and will happily eat mine portion after getting clearance. It's not even fresh pineapple, but canned stuff. I think he'd probably reduce a tip if he didn't get his pineapple at that particular establishment.

A mint-flavored tums left with the bill would be appreciated, but probably not a good business practice for a restaurant.
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#9 Nov 26 2012 at 10:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:

For you x-mas celebrators, do you send out cards?

Is your card list based on cards you've received either this year or in the past?

Do you use and/or donate for those free 'personalized' address labels?


No, no, use only.

Eventually you'd think they'd stop sending us those labels. Besides it has got to be much more cost effective to shake down rich people.
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#10 Nov 26 2012 at 11:54 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:


Eventually you'd think they'd stop sending us those labels. Besides it has got to be much more cost effective to shake down rich people.

Apparently not. They only cost $0.09/sheet.

I had used them a couple times - without donating. Then I got **** cuz they only put my husbands name on them. I don't recall getting any for the last couple years.
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#11 Nov 26 2012 at 12:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Eventually you'd think they'd stop sending us those labels. Besides it has got to be much more cost effective to shake down rich people.

Apparently not. They only cost $0.09/sheet.


Interesting...

I have the sudden urge to start up my own non-profit with ridiculously high administrative costs.
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#12 Nov 26 2012 at 2:24 PM Rating: Decent
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When it comes to eating out, I generally tip $5 for every $20 on the bill. Keeps things easy and I've never had a problem getting solid repeat service. Mints are optional, but mints on boobs should be mandatory, I think.
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#13 Nov 26 2012 at 4:44 PM Rating: Decent
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<insert Reservoir Dogs scene here>

I tip whatever my wife tells me to. Her mother is a veteran waitress so she tends to be on the generous side.

Oh, and I don't do Christmas cards. A Facebook message is all I bother with these days.

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#14 Nov 26 2012 at 5:18 PM Rating: Default
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5 for every 20! That is generous..

I just round to the nearest zero by increments of 5. For example, if I get charged anything between 10 to 15, it's rounded to 15. Anywhere from 15 to 20, rounded to 20 so forth and so on.

If the price is within a dollar or two from the nearest zero, then I take other variables in consideration.
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#15 Nov 26 2012 at 5:42 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
What if it's served off the Hooters girl's boob?


The one and only time I was at a Hooters I was chatting up the girls and found out that a surprising (and somewhat disturbing) number of them are under eighteen. That could just be a peculiarity of the one I was in, but I never went back. Not because they where underage, but because the food sucked. Nice tits aren't worth an overpriced crappy meal. That's my Hooter's story, feel free to steal it.
#16 Nov 26 2012 at 5:57 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm actually more curious to see how many he got back the next Christmas. Near the end it mentions that some sent cards for 15 years after that. I wonder how many new people replied the following year due to adding them onto their list for the following year and the percentages of responses for future years after the first.
#17 Nov 26 2012 at 6:28 PM Rating: Good
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When it comes to eating out, I generally tip $5 for every $20 on the bill.

25%? Too much, honestly, unless there was exceptional service. We tip in the 20% range, but even for poor service, 15%. That second part is mostly Nexa. She's a socialist, and doesn't buy my argument of the free market driving out the **** waitstaff eventually through poverty.

When you start tipping 25% for average service you run into the issue of having to buy the really great servers ponies and **** Who needs that?
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#18 Nov 26 2012 at 7:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:
When you start tipping 25% for average service you run into the issue of having to buy the really great servers ponies and sh*t. Who needs that?

Pony farmers.
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#19 Nov 26 2012 at 8:31 PM Rating: Default
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Turin wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
What if it's served off the Hooters girl's boob?


The one and only time I was at a Hooters I was chatting up the girls and found out that a surprising (and somewhat disturbing) number of them are under eighteen. That could just be a peculiarity of the one I was in, but I never went back. Not because they where underage, but because the food sucked. Nice tits aren't worth an overpriced crappy meal. That's my Hooter's story, feel free to steal it.


It wasn't until my third visit to a US Hooters that I didn't get food poison. I really do love the wings.

Poor girls didn't realize that I'm a veteran of OJF (Operation Juicy Freedom) aka Korea for 3 years and am expert of not shelling out money to pretty and/or **** girls.
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#20 Nov 26 2012 at 8:37 PM Rating: Decent
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I've always heard that "double the tax" is a good base for a tip, so when I have to I use that and round it to a nearest something. Which means something around 16%.
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#21Almalieque, Posted: Nov 26 2012 at 9:09 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) My counter is and has always been "God only asks for 10%, why are you asking for more? Are you greater than GOD!!?!?". Given, I've never been a waiter..Smiley: cool
#22 Nov 26 2012 at 9:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:
When it comes to eating out, I generally tip $5 for every $20 on the bill.

25%? Too much, honestly


Absolutely, but I don't mind helping out the less fortunate. Also, there was the time I was at a local watering hole and ran into someone I'd probably never speak to under any other circumstance, but who made it a point during the course of casual conversation to ask if I lived in a certain part of town. When I confirmed and asked why, he noted that he remembered me from delivering a few pizzas our way and said that nobody else he'd ever delivered a pizza to tipped like I did and that he wanted me to know it was very much appreciated. He was a young man in his early twenties, and by the looks of him, not going very far in life, but it was a nice gesture for him to explicitly and sincerely thank me like that.
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You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#23 Nov 26 2012 at 9:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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BrownDuck wrote:
Absolutely, but I don't mind helping out the less fortunate.

That's the government's job. Let them tip my waitress, that's why I pay taxes.
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#24 Nov 27 2012 at 12:55 AM Rating: Decent
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BrownDuck wrote:
Absolutely, but I don't mind helping out the less fortunate.

I got two words for that; learn to fuckin' type.
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#25 Nov 27 2012 at 5:44 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Smasharoo wrote:
When you start tipping 25% for average service you run into the issue of having to buy the really great servers ponies and sh*t. Who needs that?

Pony farmers.


They get enough business from the restaurants around here as it is.
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#26 Nov 27 2012 at 7:23 AM Rating: Good
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18-20% tip for normal service. 20-25% for above average service.

When I first moved the family out here to Maine, I worked part time at a high end that was housed in with a yacht club. We saw lots of tourists and yachtsmen and yachting tourists. In general the New Yorkers were heads above any other particular group of people in their tips - always 25% or better.

Alma you should not eat out at places with sit-down service. You don't know what may be in your food.
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#27 Nov 27 2012 at 8:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
In general the New Yorkers were heads above any other particular group of people in their tips
And in everything else.
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#28 Nov 27 2012 at 9:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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Somewhere between 15-20%, whatever makes the bill a nice even number so it's easy to reconcile the checkbook. Dinner is $42.67? You'll probably get something like $7.33. I also won't ever tip less than $3, so those tips when I'm just getting a plate for me or something end up being pretty healthy. Sushi bars and places that just bring you a glass of water, then leave you alone the rest of the time usually get 10%-ish.

Though truth be told I can scarcely remember the last time I ate some place where you tip people.
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#29 Nov 27 2012 at 10:14 AM Rating: Default
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I leave all the change. take the bills, if its more than 10% cool for you!, if not...too bad!. I hate change.
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#30 Nov 27 2012 at 10:23 AM Rating: Good
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A lot of restaurants with Groupons have wised up and now automatically stamp an 18% gratuity on any meal that used a voucher.

Makes it a bit easier for us, but it's rather said they had to institute that policy because of losers who don't tip the pre-coupon value...
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#31 Nov 27 2012 at 10:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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catwho wrote:
A lot of restaurants with Groupons have wised up and now automatically stamp an 18% gratuity on any meal that used a voucher..

The flip side being that I'm much more inclined to tip heavily when the meal is discounted. An automatic gratuity makes me say "Meh, they want 18%, they get 18%".
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#32 Nov 27 2012 at 12:07 PM Rating: Good
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catwho wrote:
A lot of restaurants with Groupons have wised up and now automatically stamp an 18% gratuity on any meal that used a voucher..
18% of the discounted amount?
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#33 Nov 27 2012 at 3:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Debalic wrote:
BrownDuck wrote:
Absolutely, but I don't mind helping out the less fortunate.

I got two words for that; learn to fuckin' type.


I was looking for the Mr. White speech from that scene, but I am lazy and didn't look very hard. So instead, here is some more of that scene.

Nice Guy Eddie: C'mon, throw in a buck!
Mr. Pink: Uh-uh, I don't tip.
Nice Guy Eddie: You don't tip?
Mr. Pink: Nah, I don't believe in it.
Nice Guy Eddie: You don't believe in tipping?
Mr. Blue: You know what these chicks make? They make ****
Mr. Pink: Don't give me that. She don't make enough money that she can quit.
Nice Guy Eddie: I don't even know a **** Jew who'd have the balls to say that. Let me get this straight: you don't ever tip?
Mr. Pink: I don't tip because society says I have to. All right, if someone deserves a tip, if they really put forth an effort, I'll give them something a little something extra. But this tipping automatically, it's for the birds. As far as I'm concerned, they're just doing their job.
Mr. Blue: Hey, our girl was nice.
Mr. Pink: She was okay. She wasn't anything special.
Mr. Blue: What's special? Take you in the back and suck your ****
Nice Guy Eddie: I'd go over twelve percent for that.
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#34 Nov 27 2012 at 4:07 PM Rating: Good
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Turin wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
What if it's served off the Hooters girl's boob?


The one and only time I was at a Hooters I was chatting up the girls and found out that a surprising (and somewhat disturbing) number of them are under eighteen. That could just be a peculiarity of the one I was in, but I never went back. Not because they where underage, but because the food sucked. Nice tits aren't worth an overpriced crappy meal. That's my Hooter's story, feel free to steal it.

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#35 Nov 27 2012 at 4:53 PM Rating: Good
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Spoonless wrote:
catwho wrote:
A lot of restaurants with Groupons have wised up and now automatically stamp an 18% gratuity on any meal that used a voucher..
18% of the discounted amount?


No, 18% of the actual cost of the meal. I think people were calculating tips based on the discounted amount, which is not the correct etiquette.
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#36 Nov 27 2012 at 5:25 PM Rating: Good
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catwho wrote:
Spoonless wrote:
catwho wrote:
A lot of restaurants with Groupons have wised up and now automatically stamp an 18% gratuity on any meal that used a voucher..
18% of the discounted amount?


No, 18% of the actual cost of the meal. I think people were calculating tips based on the discounted amount, which is not the correct etiquette.
Oh, in that case, it's kind of bullsh*t.

I normally tip over 20% for inoffensive service (I round up to the nearest dollar, take 20% of that, and round that plus the total up to the nearest dollar). I was always taught that 15% was standard tip for decent service. By automatically adding 18%, they are forcing a tip that may not be earned through service. Adding a 15% gratuity would still allow a tip of more than that to indicate good service. I understand the standard of adding 18% on the tab for large parties, but I don't think I'd want to go somewhere where they are automatically adding 18% to my bill, even though I'd normally tip more than that.

Edited, Nov 27th 2012 6:26pm by Spoonless
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#37 Nov 27 2012 at 5:29 PM Rating: Good
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On a related vein, does anybody tip gas station attendants in states where they're mandatory? For years I've been getting gas in Jersey, where you're not supposed to pump, and I've never tipped, nor ever seen anyone else. But last month when I had the family, coming back from a day at a friend's place, stopped at my regular gas stop on Route 17 (at like 1 am) and let my wife pay while I went inside for coffee and Twix. She complained that we didn't have any singles for the attendant, then freaked out when I informed her that gas jockeys weren't waiters.
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#38 Nov 27 2012 at 5:34 PM Rating: Good
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Debalic wrote:
On a related vein, does anybody tip gas station attendants in states where they're mandatory? For years I've been getting gas in Jersey, where you're not supposed to pump, and I've never tipped, nor ever seen anyone else. But last month when I had the family, coming back from a day at a friend's place, stopped at my regular gas stop on Route 17 (at like 1 am) and let my wife pay while I went inside for coffee and Twix. She complained that we didn't have any singles for the attendant, then freaked out when I informed her that gas jockeys weren't waiters.
Since they're not mandatory in my state, and I'm not used to having someone else pump my gas for me, I'd probably tip.
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#39Almalieque, Posted: Nov 27 2012 at 5:46 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Why is that?
#40 Nov 27 2012 at 6:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
Brown Duck wrote:
Absolutely, but I don't mind helping out the less fortunate


By "less fortunate", do you mean because you're so "well off" and/or because being a waiter/waitress doesn't pay well enough for them to be "well off"?


No you ignorant **** mangler. By less fortunate I mean someone who's path in life, whatever that may be, has led them to work a position where they must stand on their feet all day and cater to the whims of ingrates, snobs, and generally unappreciative direlects of society for a meager wage that is often 50% of the minimimum due to the nature of their job.

Wait staff rarely make more than $4-5 an hour, and I've known people who make even less. It's assumed that their tips will at the very least make up the difference between their pay rate and the minimum wage. I wouldn't want to work a minimum wage job myself, so I can respect someone that does so out of necessity and does a decent job of adding to my dining experience rather than taking away from it.
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#41 Nov 27 2012 at 6:34 PM Rating: Good
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Brown Duck wrote:


No you ignorant **** mangler. By less fortunate I mean someone who's path in life, whatever that may be, has led them to work a position where they must stand on their feet all day and cater to the whims of ingrates, snobs, and generally unappreciative direlects of society for a meager wage that is often 50% of the minimimum due to the nature of their job.
Wow, you make serving food sound like slave work. I was a waitress for about fifteen years. I made good money at it - the hours were awesome for me at the time. Sure, there's not much of a career path, but one could be content serving food at a good establishment I think. Most customers are grateful, friendly and appreciative, the meanies are the exception. Standing on your feet all day is probably a selling point over sitting on your **** all day.


Feeding people good food can be very satisfying.
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#42 Nov 27 2012 at 7:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ever serve a starlight mint off your boob?
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#43Almalieque, Posted: Nov 27 2012 at 8:13 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Sooooooooo....the latter.Smiley: rolleyes I'm not sure why that was so difficult. You act as if being a waiter/waitress is some chagrin of life. If you're not making an average of at least $5 an hour, then it isn't the position that you're in, it's the establishment. I would imagine that the average person tips at least $1, so if you don't have an average of 3 customers an hour, your establishment is a failure.
#44 Nov 27 2012 at 8:23 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Ever serve a starlight mint off your boob?
I wish. My boobs aren't big enough to serve a tic tac.
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#45 Nov 27 2012 at 9:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
Brown Duck wrote:


No you ignorant **** mangler. By less fortunate I mean someone who's path in life, whatever that may be, has led them to work a position where they must stand on their feet all day and cater to the whims of ingrates, snobs, and generally unappreciative direlects of society for a meager wage that is often 50% of the minimimum due to the nature of their job.
Wow, you make serving food sound like slave work. I was a waitress for about fifteen years. I made good money at it - the hours were awesome for me at the time. Sure, there's not much of a career path, but one could be content serving food at a good establishment I think. Most customers are grateful, friendly and appreciative, the meanies are the exception. Standing on your feet all day is probably a selling point over sitting on your **** all day.


Feeding people good food can be very satisfying.

I've been a server and a bartender. I did it for close to 20 years. It definitely has its pros and cons. I don't regret doing it, but I'd never do it again. Mostly because I'm too old and I physically can't do it anymore.

And BD? A server making $4/hr is living like a king. Most servers make $2.13 per hour. That's the absolute least that anyone is allowed to make without getting in trouble with the labor board.
#46 Nov 27 2012 at 10:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Nadenu wrote:
And BD? A server making $4/hr is living like a king. Most servers make $2.13 per hour. That's the absolute least that anyone is allowed to make without getting in trouble with the labor board.


Are you sure it's still that low? Minimum wage was also $5.5 20 years ago and its now around $7.50. And if it is, even more to my point - wait staff get paid **** for the work they do. If they're halfway decent, I don't mind tipping well to help them out.
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You guys keep tossing facts out there like they mean something.


#47 Nov 28 2012 at 1:34 AM Rating: Good
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Nadenu wrote:
And BD? A server making $4/hr is living like a king. Most servers make $2.13 per hour. That's the absolute least that anyone is allowed to make without getting in trouble with the labor board.


Are you sure it's still that low?
It is in South Dakota.
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#48 Nov 28 2012 at 1:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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I know in 1994 the Hooters girls in Panama City Beach made $2.13/hr + tips.

Since then I've been living in Japan, and there is no tipping here. If you try to leave money at the table, they chase you down to return it.
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#49 Nov 28 2012 at 1:54 AM Rating: Good
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Since this is now a tipping thread, 20±10%.
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#50 Nov 28 2012 at 7:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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Bringing it back to the original point: no, I don't feel obligated to buy things that were sent to me unsolicited. Yes, I am more likely to tip a little more if the server gives me a perk, especially if they sell it well, with a smile.

Why? Because it's a simple sales technique, and I am as susceptible to anyone to a well-delivered sales pitch. It is, in sales parlance, a food in the door. It's a chance to make contact.

Things sent in the mail are impersonal and have no resonance. Things handed to me directly, with a little extra face-to-face charm, often do get the job done.
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#51 Nov 28 2012 at 7:40 AM Rating: Good
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Is there some kind of loophole in the law which allows people to pay waiting staff less than minimum wage? I figured it was pretty self explanatory what "minimum" means.
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