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Chicago Teacher's StrikeFollow

#52 Sep 12 2012 at 10:44 AM Rating: Default
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Your face is lacking.
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Demea wrote:
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I'm biased against statistics
#53 Sep 12 2012 at 10:47 AM Rating: Good
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I.... I think I just had a moment with Almalieque.
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#54 Sep 12 2012 at 10:49 AM Rating: Default
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You should cherish this moment.
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Demea wrote:
Almalieque wrote:

I'm biased against statistics
#55 Sep 12 2012 at 10:50 AM Rating: Good
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Actually it reminded me of Mindel and I spent some time mooning over her.

So I guess it was cherished.
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#56 Sep 12 2012 at 10:54 AM Rating: Good
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Wait. Don't you basically sell snake oil to the government?


Actually I just raise my kids now, but prior to that I sold consulting services primarily focused on predictive analytics. So: kinda!
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#57 Sep 12 2012 at 10:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Actually I just raise my kids now

Whatever, Welfare Queen.
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#58 Sep 12 2012 at 10:56 AM Rating: Good
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Is that where their glossy hair comes from?
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#59 Sep 12 2012 at 2:32 PM Rating: Default
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BrownDuck wrote:
gbaji wrote:

There are several stunningly obvious problems with that little diatribe you quoted. Can you spot them?

Can you?


You're kidding right?

1. Teaching is not babysitting (despite comparisons suggesting otherwise). Outside of preschool and kindergarten (or some very special ed), teachers to not do play time, or change diapers (day care facilities charge significantly more for non-potty trained kids btw), or engage in significant individual activities with the students.

2. Pay does not scale linearly with number of children even in a day care or babysitting setting. Why should it when teaching? A good day care facility (full time) might cost $600/month. That works out to $15/hour/child. Yet, amazingly, a day care with 10 children for every worker doesn't pay their workers $150/hour (or $300,000/year).

3. Costs for education include the entire staff and facilities, not just the teachers in the room. When you account for total faculty compared to total students, it's closer to 10-1 ratio, not 30-1. So we should just not pay the rest of the staff? And I suppose those buildings are free too, right?

4. I could probably come up with more, but I'm honestly dumbfounded that anyone questioned that this is an incredibly flawed comparison with silly-math being used to make a moronic point.
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#60 Sep 12 2012 at 2:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
2. Pay does not scale linearly with number of children even in a day care or babysitting setting. Why should it when teaching? A good day care facility (full time) might cost $600/month. That works out to $15/hour/child. Yet, amazingly, a day care with 10 children for every worker doesn't pay their workers $150/hour (or $300,000/year).

Of course not. No profit in it.
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#61 Sep 12 2012 at 2:38 PM Rating: Default
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Smasharoo wrote:

Wait. Don't you basically sell snake oil to the government?


Actually I just raise my kids now, but prior to that I sold consulting services primarily focused on predictive analytics. So: kinda!


For the government (or out of money coming from government grants), right? So not even remotely you selling your skills on a "free market". More like you suckling at the teat of "free" tax dollars. Our stimulus dollars at work, right?


That's not to say that private dollars don't result in ridiculous payouts to consultants too, but at least those dollars were accumulated as a result of those companies providing someone else with something they believed to be worth the amount paid in dollars they themselves earned (ie: free market). Thus, there's some expectation that said fees are considered worth the price. When it's government dollars involved, the amounts are like the scores on "Whose Line?".
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#62 Sep 12 2012 at 2:39 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
2. Pay does not scale linearly with number of children even in a day care or babysitting setting. Why should it when teaching? A good day care facility (full time) might cost $600/month. That works out to $15/hour/child. Yet, amazingly, a day care with 10 children for every worker doesn't pay their workers $150/hour (or $300,000/year).

Of course not. No profit in it.


That and the kids would be playing out in a parking lot.
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#63 Sep 12 2012 at 2:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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In more seriousness, you'll want to constrain your counter-argument to actual "commercial" daycare facilities. Babysitters or home providers do typically get paid on a linear scale per kid seeing as how they're operating independently and charge a flat rate per head.

Edited, Sep 12th 2012 3:44pm by Jophiel
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#64 Sep 12 2012 at 4:34 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
In more seriousness, you'll want to constrain your counter-argument to actual "commercial" daycare facilities. Babysitters or home providers do typically get paid on a linear scale per kid seeing as how they're operating independently and charge a flat rate per head.


Sure. And one of those is more like teachers in a classroom. But which one!?
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#65 Sep 12 2012 at 5:02 PM Rating: Good
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For the government (or out of money coming from government grants), right? So not even remotely you selling your skills on a "free market". More like you suckling at the teat of "free" tax dollars. Our stimulus dollars at work, right?


Meh, not really. Depends on how far down the rabbit hole you want to go on the "government grants" thing. Most of my clients are Fortune 500 companies. I'm sure they probably all do business with the government. Most of the work was from medical device/healthcare companies, so reimbursement rates effect them, etc. I haven't actually been paid by a US Govt check in about 9 years.
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#66 Sep 12 2012 at 5:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Dear public employee unions: when you go on strike, and even the editorial page at the New York Times condemns it, you should probably reconsider your positions.

Dem-on-Dem violence!
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#67 Sep 12 2012 at 5:38 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Sure. And one of those is more like teachers in a classroom. But which one!?

You seem to think I was arguing with the point. Next time you should take the criticism gracefully and let it help you be a better poster.
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#68 Sep 12 2012 at 5:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Sure. And one of those is more like teachers in a classroom. But which one!?

You seem to think I was arguing with the point. Next time you should take the criticism gracefully and let it help you be a better poster.


Lack of sarcasm tag, I guess. I wasn't taking issue with your point. It's valid. I guess this is another case of me giving people too much credit and assuming they'll apply some small amount of common sense. Babysitters also don't normally scale up to 30 kids, so commercial daycare is a much more obvious and reasonable comparison.

You're correct that I should have explicitly stated that babysitting isn't the correct model to use, daycare is, and here's how it works money wise. I just figured that between points 1 and 2, most people could figure that out for themselves and I didn't need to spell it out in big crayon letters or something.
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#69 Sep 12 2012 at 5:54 PM Rating: Good
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Next time you should take the criticism gracefully and let it help you be a better poster.
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#70 Sep 12 2012 at 5:56 PM Rating: Good
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Demea wrote:
Dear public employee unions: when you go on strike, and even the editorial page at the New York Times condemns it, you should probably reconsider your positions.

Dem-on-Dem violence!


Loved the comment basically asserting that this is all an attack on education by the political right. Cause that's where Emanuel is. Far far to the right. Couldn't possibly have something to do with the city just plain not being able to afford the nutty and unrealistic demands the union is making? No.... That's just crazy talk!
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#71 Sep 12 2012 at 6:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Next time you should take the criticism gracefully and let it help you be a better poster.


I twice said your criticism was valid Joph. What the **** do you want? A gold star?

How many baby sitters do you know who sit for 10 kids at once, let alone 30? As I stated in point 1, they are *not* remotely the same thing. So yeah. Criticism noted, but you're criticizing something I already addressed. Thanks I suppose, but not really needed IMO.
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#72 Sep 12 2012 at 6:10 PM Rating: Good
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Next time you should take the criticism gracefully and let it help you be a better poster.

Smiley: laugh

But watching you throw a petulant hissy fit at being corrected is kind of fun as well, I guess.
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#73 Sep 12 2012 at 7:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Next time you should take the criticism gracefully and let it help you be a better poster.

Smiley: laugh

But watching you throw a petulant hissy fit at being corrected is kind of fun as well, I guess.


I'm being graceful in proportion to the usefulness of your criticism. But if you really need a pat on the head or something: Good boy!
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#74 Sep 12 2012 at 7:16 PM Rating: Good
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Smiley: laughSmiley: laughSmiley: laugh
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#75 Sep 12 2012 at 7:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Glad I could give you a laugh Joph. You seem way too wound up lately. Too much coffee?


In any case, the posted bit about teachers pay was pretty darn stupid. Can we at least agree on that? Teachers really aren't underpaid in general, and the ones in this district certainly aren't. They are paid more than most districts (all districts depending on whose numbers you use), work fewer hours than in most districts, and have one of the worst academic records of any district in the US . And they're going on strike why? Let's set aside unions in general and teachers in general and ask ourselves if these teachers specifically deserve higher pay/benefits/whatever than they're already getting?

I'd say no. Not just no, but **** no. They probably don't deserve the pay they're getting right now. And given the massive deficits their budget is suffering, to demand increases and go on strike over those things is pretty darn ridiculous. It just shows how far out of touch the far far left has become. They care more about their union power than they do about their jobs.

Edited, Sep 12th 2012 7:05pm by gbaji
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#76 Sep 12 2012 at 7:45 PM Rating: Good
This is the closest Gbaji has, or ever will, come to admitting he was wrong. It should be preserved for future generations.
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#77 Sep 12 2012 at 7:49 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Glad I could give you a laugh Joph. You see way too wound up lately. Too much coffee?

Smiley: laughSmiley: laughSmiley: laugh
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#78 Sep 12 2012 at 8:05 PM Rating: Decent
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I think I broke Joph. Either that or he's been infected by the Joker.
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#79 Sep 13 2012 at 7:05 AM Rating: Good
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Maybe the TAS Joker.
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#80 Sep 21 2012 at 10:54 AM Rating: Good
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Ultimately it comes down to (relatively) highly paid unionized workers wanting more pay/benefits/security at a time when the rest of Chicago gets by with less. And then they punish the (largely lesser paid) parents of the children they should be teaching by creating scheduling difficulties connected with a strike and larger taxes.

What is it the teachers unions always sob when crying for more funding? Oh yes. "Think of the children!" Heh, for the teachers union busy lining their pockets that would be a novel concept indeed...

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#81 Sep 21 2012 at 11:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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Missed the party by a few days there, pal.
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#82 Sep 22 2012 at 3:35 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah, well, I'm a little busy over here, what with all the Muzzie unrest and all.

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#83 Sep 22 2012 at 8:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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Have Rahm negotiate a contract with them. Worked to quell the unrest here.
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#84 Sep 23 2012 at 6:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Weeeeeeeeell, with that Jewish background and everything, instead of "What do we want?!? Better wages!!! When do we want it?!? Now!!!", Rahm might hear, "What do we want?!? Death to the satanic Jew!!! When do we want it?!? NOW!!!Allah akbhar!!!!! ---KA-BOOOM!

Tough to negotiate with those darned union suicide bombers...

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#85 Sep 23 2012 at 7:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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That's when you send in the drones! That was the next step in the CTU negotiations.
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