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Chicago Teacher's StrikeFollow

#27 Sep 11 2012 at 6:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Then why provide the lead-eating, poorly nutrished, addicted in the womb, downs (or ***) babies an education at all?

I'd assume its so I see less of them at the mall at noon.

Wouldn't it be a better bang for our educational buck if we spent it on those with a better chance at success?

Yes.
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#28 Sep 11 2012 at 7:15 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
Then why provide the lead-eating, poorly nutrished, addicted in the womb, downs (or ***) babies an education at all?

I'd assume its so I see less of them at the mall at noon.

Wouldn't it be a better bang for our educational buck if we spent it on those with a better chance at success?

Yes.

What are you doing at the mall at noon?
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#29 Sep 11 2012 at 7:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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Walking?
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#30 Sep 11 2012 at 8:01 AM Rating: Decent
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They did the same thing here in Ontario about 10-12 years ago, and it works fine. Essentially it really just allows school boards to target weaker schools and determine if it is.
A) A teacher problem
B) A funding problem

or if an across the board issue

C) a Curriculum problem.

Teachers had the same concerns here, but I can't think of any that lost there jobs because of it, granted some have been moved around but that is what the program is supposed to to ideally. Target the stronger teachers and put them with the weaker children. In order to best equalize the learning process for all children.

It has worked greatly in Ontario with Maths Sciences and Languages all increasing over the past decade. I think these teachers are just freaking out, because that is what teachers do when they are forced to actually teach kids.
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#31 Sep 11 2012 at 10:55 AM Rating: Good
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From a selfish standpoint, I'm glad this is being hashed out now rather than later, since I'm working on a degree for mathematics w/secondary education minor right now, and could potentially end up in the CPS.

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#32 Sep 11 2012 at 10:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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What are you doing at the mall at noon?


Well, I'm a homemaker now, so you know, wandering around Neiman Marcus with an infant strapped to my chest like a suicide bomber with my cold dead eyes seeking the random thrill of forbidden love with a grizzled photographer from the big city.

Also, buying things.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#33 Sep 11 2012 at 11:35 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:

What are you doing at the mall at noon?


Well, I'm a homemaker now, so you know, wandering around Neiman Marcus with an infant strapped to my chest like a suicide bomber with my cold dead eyes seeking the random thrill of forbidden love with a grizzled photographer from the big city.

Also, buying things.
Did you drool over the new Louboutin line?
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#34 Sep 11 2012 at 2:59 PM Rating: Default
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Smasharoo wrote:

You could also argue that fixing the evaluations, and getting rid of bum teachers, is the most important step in fixing failing schools.


Not effectively, you couldn't. Teachers aren't the problem. Teacher's unions aren't the problem. There are 100000 studies of non unionized charter schools free to fire teachers at will, they perform exactly the same as public schools in similar demographic areas.


That's debatable, but also irrelevant to the issue at hand. The students in that district do worse than those in other districts with similar demographics yet their teachers are paid significantly more. And they want a raise. So much so that they're going on strike to get it (yes, and other things). Surely you can see how this might just raise a few eyebrows?

Quote:
Parents education matters. Family socio economic status matters. Culture in the district matters. There's no "most important" step, and honestly it's arguable there is no "fixing" failing schools.


Also debatable. Well, I suppose the "it's arguable" part isn't, but the problem is that the left (which in case you missed it has pretty much dominated the local politics in Chicago for decades) refuses to engage in said argument. So while we could have an argument about methods to attempt to fix failing schools, we can't because your own political party refuses to even consider the possibility that there might just be a better way to do this.

I'll also point out that the same sorts of policies (yes, those evil "get people off welfare" policies) of the right might just also help alleviate some of the issues that make it so hard to have successful schools in poorer districts. Clearly the policies of the left have failed in this regard, so why not try some of the ideas that conservatives have? I just find is amusing that liberals insist that conservatives either don't have ideas, or that their ideas don't work, meanwhile basically throwing their hands up and claiming that it's impossible to fix problems using their own methods. Um... Why not give the right a try at bat here? Just a thought.

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Our town has very good public schools, regularly rated in the top 25 districts of the state, some years in the top 10. That's for Massachusetts, of course. I'd assume that easily would make them the top rated district in some sh*tty backwater flyover state like Illinois. The town next to us has the worst schools in the state. The idea that it's the teachers from each district making the difference is ludicrous.


All the difference? No. Part of it? Absolutely. The more relevant point is that your argument basically avoids the possibility that there might be *any* bad teachers anywhere. And IMO, if you deliberately avoid any methods to find them, then you'll get more of them over time. And guess what? They're going to tend to congregate in the poorer districts, since that's where their bad performance is less likely to be noticed. You're arguing for a feedback system that guarantees that education in poor districts will get worse over time.

Quote:
Their kids walk past crack dealers on the way to school and have parents that dropped out in 9th grade. Our kids have parents with PhDs and have business cards with their parents contact information for play-dates (really, Hannah brought some home on her first day of 2nd grade). If the districts swapped teachers, not much would change. Well, our kids would learn more Spanish, probably.


If they swapped teachers, it's almost certain that your district would immediately identify the 10-15% or so who suck and would shuffle them off somewhere else very quickly. I think you are incredibly naive if you don't think that the quality of teachers is better in a well to do district versus a poor one.

Edited, Sep 11th 2012 2:01pm by gbaji
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#35 Sep 11 2012 at 3:04 PM Rating: Default
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It's a tricky issue, but we also have to consider the question of what someone is being paid for. I guess this is a larger philosophical question about labor in general, but I tend to be in the "you're being paid for the results of your labor" rather than the "you're being paid because you expended effort" camp.

Exactly, which is why you ply your trade on the open market competing against all comers secure in the knowledge that your skills and work of such high quality that you'll secure top dollar as opposed to coasting along at a grandfathered salary left over from a huge bubble largely due to inertia.


Wait. Don't you basically sell snake oil to the government? Might want to take a gander in the mirror there skippy.

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Oh wait, you meant OTHER people, right?


But not you, right? Smiley: lol
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#36 Sep 11 2012 at 4:01 PM Rating: Good
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I'm sure everybody has seen this, or something similar, before.
Quote:
Are you sick of high paid teachers? Teachers’ hefty salaries are driving up taxes, and they only work 9 or 10 months a year! It’s time we put things in perspective and pay them for what they do - baby sit! We can get that for less than minimum wage.


Teachers should only be paid less than minimum wage. They are nothing more than glorified babysitters. And we should pay them the same way.

That’s right. Let’s give them $3.00 an hour and only the hours they worked; not any of that silly planning time, or any time they spend before or after school. That would be $19.50 a day (7:45 to 3:00 PM
with 45 min. off for lunch and plan — that equals 6 1/2 hours).

Each parent should pay $19.50 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children.

Now how many do they teach in day…maybe 30? So that’s $19.50 x 30 = $585.00 a day. However, remember they only work 180 days a year!!! I am not going to pay them for any vacations.

LET’S SEE…. That’s $585 X 180= $105,300 peryear. (Hold on! My calculator needs new batteries).

What about those special education teachers and the ones with Master’s degrees? Well, we could pay them minimum wage ($7.75), and just to be fair, round it off to $8.00 an hour. That would be $8 X 6 1/2 hours X 30 children
X 180 days = $280,800 per year.

Wait a minute — there’s something wrong here! There sure is!



And it ain't teacher pay.

The average teacher’s salary (nation wide) is $50,000. $50,000/180 days = $277.77/per day/30 students=$9.25/6.5 hours = $1.42 per hour per student–a very inexpensive baby-sitter and they even EDUCATE your


Chicago teachers striking is nothing new. I was in the chicago school district up until we moved in the 6th grade, and I don't think there was a single year we actually started the school year on time.
#37 Sep 11 2012 at 4:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's been 25 years since the last CPS strike. That's new enough to make it news.
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#38 Sep 11 2012 at 5:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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xantav wrote:
I'm sure everybody has seen this, or something similar, before.
Quote:
Are you sick of high paid teachers? Teachers’ hefty salaries are driving up taxes, and they only work 9 or 10 months a year! It’s time we put things in perspective and pay them for what they do - baby sit! We can get that for less than minimum wage.


Teachers should only be paid less than minimum wage. They are nothing more than glorified babysitters. And we should pay them the same way.

That’s right. Let’s give them $3.00 an hour and only the hours they worked; not any of that silly planning time, or any time they spend before or after school. That would be $19.50 a day (7:45 to 3:00 PM
with 45 min. off for lunch and plan — that equals 6 1/2 hours).

Each parent should pay $19.50 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children.

Now how many do they teach in day…maybe 30? So that’s $19.50 x 30 = $585.00 a day. However, remember they only work 180 days a year!!! I am not going to pay them for any vacations.

LET’S SEE…. That’s $585 X 180= $105,300 peryear. (Hold on! My calculator needs new batteries).

What about those special education teachers and the ones with Master’s degrees? Well, we could pay them minimum wage ($7.75), and just to be fair, round it off to $8.00 an hour. That would be $8 X 6 1/2 hours X 30 children
X 180 days = $280,800 per year.

Wait a minute — there’s something wrong here! There sure is!



And it ain't teacher pay.

The average teacher’s salary (nation wide) is $50,000. $50,000/180 days = $277.77/per day/30 students=$9.25/6.5 hours = $1.42 per hour per student–a very inexpensive baby-sitter and they even EDUCATE your


Chicago teachers striking is nothing new. I was in the chicago school district up until we moved in the 6th grade, and I don't think there was a single year we actually started the school year on time.

Charter schools could probably educate those kids for $0.95 on the margin. Free market efficiency!

Also, this "analysis" is deceptive and misleading at best, outright retarded at worst.

Edited, Sep 11th 2012 6:21pm by Demea
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#39 Sep 11 2012 at 5:29 PM Rating: Default
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xantav wrote:
I'm sure everybody has seen this, or something similar, before.
Quote:
Are you sick of high paid teachers? Teachers’ hefty salaries are driving up taxes, and they only work 9 or 10 months a year! It’s time we put things in perspective and pay them for what they do - baby sit! We can get that for less than minimum wage.


Teachers should only be paid less than minimum wage. They are nothing more than glorified babysitters. And we should pay them the same way.

That’s right. Let’s give them $3.00 an hour and only the hours they worked; not any of that silly planning time, or any time they spend before or after school. That would be $19.50 a day (7:45 to 3:00 PM
with 45 min. off for lunch and plan — that equals 6 1/2 hours).

Each parent should pay $19.50 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children.

Now how many do they teach in day…maybe 30? So that’s $19.50 x 30 = $585.00 a day. However, remember they only work 180 days a year!!! I am not going to pay them for any vacations.

LET’S SEE…. That’s $585 X 180= $105,300 peryear. (Hold on! My calculator needs new batteries).

What about those special education teachers and the ones with Master’s degrees? Well, we could pay them minimum wage ($7.75), and just to be fair, round it off to $8.00 an hour. That would be $8 X 6 1/2 hours X 30 children
X 180 days = $280,800 per year.

Wait a minute — there’s something wrong here! There sure is!



And it ain't teacher pay.

The average teacher’s salary (nation wide) is $50,000. $50,000/180 days = $277.77/per day/30 students=$9.25/6.5 hours = $1.42 per hour per student–a very inexpensive baby-sitter and they even EDUCATE your


Chicago teachers striking is nothing new. I was in the chicago school district up until we moved in the 6th grade, and I don't think there was a single year we actually started the school year on time.



There are several stunningly obvious problems with that little diatribe you quoted. Can you spot them?
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#40 Sep 11 2012 at 5:44 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
xantav wrote:
I'm sure everybody has seen this, or something similar, before.
Quote:
Are you sick of high paid teachers? Teachers’ hefty salaries are driving up taxes, and they only work 9 or 10 months a year! It’s time we put things in perspective and pay them for what they do - baby sit! We can get that for less than minimum wage.

Teachers should only be paid less than minimum wage. They are nothing more than glorified babysitters. And we should pay them the same way.

That’s right. Let’s give them $3.00 an hour and only the hours they worked; not any of that silly planning time, or any time they spend before or after school. That would be $19.50 a day (7:45 to 3:00 PM
with 45 min. off for lunch and plan — that equals 6 1/2 hours).

Each parent should pay $19.50 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children.

Now how many do they teach in day…maybe 30? So that’s $19.50 x 30 = $585.00 a day. However, remember they only work 180 days a year!!! I am not going to pay them for any vacations.

LET’S SEE…. That’s $585 X 180= $105,300 peryear. (Hold on! My calculator needs new batteries).

What about those special education teachers and the ones with Master’s degrees? Well, we could pay them minimum wage ($7.75), and just to be fair, round it off to $8.00 an hour. That would be $8 X 6 1/2 hours X 30 children
X 180 days = $280,800 per year.

Wait a minute — there’s something wrong here! There sure is!



And it ain't teacher pay.

The average teacher’s salary (nation wide) is $50,000. $50,000/180 days = $277.77/per day/30 students=$9.25/6.5 hours = $1.42 per hour per student–a very inexpensive baby-sitter and they even EDUCATE your


Chicago teachers striking is nothing new. I was in the chicago school district up until we moved in the 6th grade, and I don't think there was a single year we actually started the school year on time.



There are several stunningly obvious problems with that little diatribe you quoted. Can you spot them?


Can you?
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#41 Sep 12 2012 at 3:22 AM Rating: Good
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Nothing on the union's demand for a 30% salary increase? I believe the city came back with a 16% increase counter, broken out at 4% per year for the next 4 years. Which was turned down along with the evaluation deal.

Kinda glad I went to a private school when I lived there. Go go catholic high schools! (>.>)
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#43 Sep 12 2012 at 7:38 AM Rating: Good
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klausneck wrote:
Go go catholic high schools! (>.>)
In hindsight, I could take it or leave it.
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#44 Sep 12 2012 at 7:43 AM Rating: Good
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I was listening to some program where they were talking to various parents whose kids missing school because of the striking teachers. I think they talked to four different mothers. Not a one of them mentioned an ounce of concern about loss of knowledge. Everyone of them complained about lack of child care and inconvenience. It was rather sad. If I was a Chicago teacher it probably would have made me cry.
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#45 Sep 12 2012 at 7:45 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Not a one of them mentioned an ounce of concern about loss of knowledge.
What loss? They'll just move the school year back, and cut some breaks out.
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#46 Sep 12 2012 at 8:45 AM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Not a one of them mentioned an ounce of concern about loss of knowledge.
What loss? They'll just move the school year back, and cut some breaks out.


This. Just like "snow days".. You will still get your 180 +/- days.
#47 Sep 12 2012 at 9:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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crazylegz1975 wrote:
We all know these unions have to make a move now. Who knows in a couple months whether or not they'll have a sympathetic president in the whitehouse.

There's that "small government" mindset Gbaji is always lecturing us about.
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#48 Sep 12 2012 at 10:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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Aren't smaller entities easier to rape?
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#49 Sep 12 2012 at 10:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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Not legitimately.
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#50 Sep 12 2012 at 10:35 AM Rating: Default
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You can't rape the willing.
#51 Sep 12 2012 at 10:38 AM Rating: Good
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Your lacking reply is taken as assent.
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