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Colorado Shooting and...Follow

#77 Jul 23 2012 at 3:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
But even if somehow magically we passed a ban that made it impossible for him to obtain any sort of firearm with which he could possibly kill a bunch of people in a crowded theater (basically impossible unless you repeal the 2nd amendment), he clearly had the knowledge and access to materials to just make bombs instead. Explain to me how that would have lowered the death count.

Well, apparently HE felt he could kill more people with guns than with some home made bombs so maybe he can explain it to you how it's easier to shoot 70-odd people than it is to go into a theater and throw home made bombs at them Smiley: rolleyes
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There were no fully automatic weapons used in this massacre. There weren't any used in the last one. Or the one before that. Or the one before that. To the degree that any discussion of modifying our current gun control laws in the aftermath of such an event is legitimate at all (and I'm not saying that it isn't), it would help to at least limit that discussion to weapons which are not already currently banned and which didn't play any part in the event at all.

ITT: Gbaji admits that gun laws banning automatic weapons work to stop massacres involving automatic weapons.

Edited, Jul 23rd 2012 4:11pm by Jophiel
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#78 Jul 23 2012 at 3:23 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
Well, apparently HE felt he could kill more people with guns than with some home made bombs so maybe he can explain it to you how it's easier to shoot 70-odd people than it is to go into a theater and throw home made bombs at them


I doubt very much that number of people killed was his top priority. I suspect he had an image in his mind of his fantasy moment, and that involved him shooting a big ol gun, with a ridiculously large drum full of bullets, at a scared and screaming crowd of unsuspecting people. If he'd really just wanted to kill a large number of people, there were a number of much more trivially easy ways to do so. It was about the scene he wanted to act out.

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Quote:
There were no fully automatic weapons used in this massacre. There weren't any used in the last one. Or the one before that. Or the one before that. To the degree that any discussion of modifying our current gun control laws in the aftermath of such an event is legitimate at all (and I'm not saying that it isn't), it would help to at least limit that discussion to weapons which are not already currently banned and which didn't play any part in the event at all.

ITT: Gbaji admits that gun laws banning automatic weapons work to stop massacres involving automatic weapons.


But it doesn't stop massacres involving other forms of firearms. So logically, banning various select groups of "assault rifles" will not prevent massacres committed using still other forms of firearms, right?
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#79 Jul 23 2012 at 3:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Better ban all of the guns then! Smiley: grin
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#80 Jul 23 2012 at 3:59 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
I doubt very much that number of people killed was his top priority.

Let me tell you that your own guesses about him weigh heavily on my opinion. So you're certain that only guns would do to fit his "big ole gun" fantasy but... barring that, I guess he would have tossed that fantasy out the window and just would have bombed the place. Makes sense Smiley: dubious

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But it doesn't stop massacres involving other forms of firearms. So logically...

...we should continue to ban the weapons used in these massacres just as we don't see automatic weapon massacres. I'm glad you're on board.
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#81 Jul 23 2012 at 4:00 PM Rating: Default
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Nilatai wrote:
Better ban all of the guns then! Smiley: grin


Kinda the point. Unless one is advocating outright repeal of the 2nd amendment, simply banning sets of guns isn't going to prevent this sort of massacre. It's at best a placebo. And while I suppose some people are ok with that, I think it's a silly waste of time.

And in this particular case (unless some new information arises), there's pretty much zero legal restrictions we could place (again, sort of repealing the second amendment) on purchasing rules which would have made a difference. This guy had zero legal problems in his past. I'm not sure how you could place any tighter restrictions on purchases which could have stopped him from getting his hands on guns while still allowing anyone else to. Which brings us right back to "unless you can repeal the 2nd amendment, you can't do anything" bit.

We're left with passing random and useless legislation to make people feel better about themselves, aren't we?
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#82 Jul 23 2012 at 4:01 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
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But it doesn't stop massacres involving other forms of firearms. So logically...

...we should continue to ban the weapons used in these massacres just as we don't see automatic weapon massacres. I'm glad you're on board.


So, all long rifles. All shotguns. And all handguns. Right? What part of "unless you're prepared to repeal the 2nd amendment" do you not understand?
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#83 Jul 23 2012 at 4:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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People can still buy potato guns.
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#84 Jul 23 2012 at 4:45 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
So, all long rifles. All shotguns. And all handguns. Right? What part of "unless you're prepared to repeal the 2nd amendment" do you not understand?

I guess the part where massacres with long rifles are equal to massacres with AR-15 clones.

But hey, I'm willing to err more on the side of keeping people alive than just accepting 70-odd people shot in a single instance as the cost of doing 2nd Amendment business.
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#85 Jul 23 2012 at 5:07 PM Rating: Good
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Unlike Switzerland, though, the USA does not have a militia. I don't see how the second amendment is still relevant?
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#86 Jul 23 2012 at 5:16 PM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
People can still buy potato guns.


Can't you just build one, better and cheaper.
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#87 Jul 23 2012 at 5:22 PM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
People can still buy potato guns.


Can't you just build one, better and cheaper.
Very unAmerican of you, not endorsing Capitalism.
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#88 Jul 23 2012 at 5:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
People can still buy potato guns.



Sure, but who wants to hunt potatoes?

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#89 Jul 23 2012 at 5:29 PM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
People can still buy potato guns.


Can't you just build one, better and cheaper.
Very unAmerican of you, not endorsing Capitalism.


I still have to buy the PVC and accessories from the hardware store. Plus all that hairspray...
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#90 Jul 23 2012 at 5:35 PM Rating: Good
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I happened to be in Loveland, Colorado this weekend (an hour from Aurora), and happened to be in church (went for my grandmother's benefit), and here are the summarized points of the priest's homily which talked about the shooting:

1) Jesus is the only path to true peace
2) Hence, there can never be total world peace until everyone in the world accepts Jesus
3) Since it's hard to effect peace on a global scale, we should start on a personal scale, and to do this we should:
a) rearrange our living room furniture so that the seats face each other instead of the TV
b) have conversations with each other instead of posting to and reading from Facebook



Edited, Jul 23rd 2012 6:36pm by trickybeck
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#91 Jul 23 2012 at 5:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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trickybeck wrote:
a) rearrange our living room furniture so that the seats face each other instead of the TV


That would make it very hard to see the TV...
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#92 Jul 23 2012 at 5:48 PM Rating: Good
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Nilatai wrote:
Unlike Switzerland, though, the USA does not have a militia. I don't see how the second amendment is still relevant?

People need their fantasies of using their AR-15s when they join Michelle Bachmann's army bravely standing against the Muslim tax collectors and census workers.
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#93 Jul 23 2012 at 6:03 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
Unlike Switzerland, though, the USA does not have a militia. I don't see how the second amendment is still relevant?

And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.
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#94 Jul 23 2012 at 6:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smiley: thumbsup

Then they re-elect Michelle Bachmann Smiley: laugh
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#95 Jul 23 2012 at 7:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
So, all long rifles. All shotguns. And all handguns. Right? What part of "unless you're prepared to repeal the 2nd amendment" do you not understand?

I guess the part where massacres with long rifles are equal to massacres with AR-15 clones.


*cough* An AR-15 is a long rifle.

Quote:
But hey, I'm willing to err more on the side of keeping people alive than just accepting 70-odd people shot in a single instance as the cost of doing 2nd Amendment business.


Then fight to repeal the 2nd amendment Joph. It's your call. Write your congressman or something. I'm just saying that unless one is willing to go that route, most of the silly attempts at gun control will do nothing except make ignorant people think they're accomplishing something.
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#96 Jul 23 2012 at 7:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
*cough* An AR-15 is a long rifle.
Not without a conversion kit.
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#97 Jul 23 2012 at 7:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
*cough* An AR-15 is a long rifle.

Nope. Perhaps you meant a long gun?

Oh, and take some cough drops. Otherwise it sounds as though you were trying to be smug and you just look stupider for it.

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Then fight to repeal the 2nd amendment Joph.

Or, you know, some sort of middle ground in there. But you wouldn't be you if you understood anything beyond extremes and platitudes.
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#98 Jul 23 2012 at 8:35 PM Rating: Good
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Huh. Eleven years and I've never heard a rifle referred to as a long gun. Only time I've ever heard the term was from the ex-Navy dude about ship weapons. I kind of thought he was talking about caliber, but certainly not an actual long rifle. Weird.
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#99 Jul 23 2012 at 8:53 PM Rating: Excellent
Didn't you know, Gbaji is an expert in guns. Well, ok, not an expert, because they suck, but someone who can talk about guns with experts and have them be super impressed with his made up knowledge.
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#100 Jul 23 2012 at 9:21 PM Rating: Decent
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A "long rifle" is generally used to refer to the old-fashioned rifles of the 18th century or so. A "long gun" is a two-handed firearm as opposed to a pistol or sidearm. In this context a semi-auto Armalite is still going to do a whole lot more than a musket.
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#101 Jul 23 2012 at 9:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
Didn't you know, Gbaji is an expert in guns. Well, ok, not an expert, because they suck, but someone who can talk about guns with experts and have them be super impressed with his made up knowledge.

In all seriousness, I thought he legitimately meant "long rifle" in a "Since the dawn of this nation, we've had this Amendment" sort of way since, you know, that's the sort of gun used in the Revolution (among others). I didn't know that he was just trying to throw around random gun terms he's picked up along the way without understanding what they meant.
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