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#27 Jul 17 2012 at 3:43 PM Rating: Good
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What's wrong with doing it themselves?
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#28 Jul 17 2012 at 4:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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#29 Jul 17 2012 at 6:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Monsieur Driftwood wrote:
But it wouldn't be the doctor making the decision. I'm not arguing that doctors should be able to choose to end their patients' lives. I'm arguing that the patients themselves have that right to choose for themselves.


The problem is that some people, especially elderly people, are relatively easy to talk into things, or can be made to sign things without really understanding what's at stake. Doubly so if euphemisms are used. We might assume that someone saying "Sign this, and I'll end all your pain and suffering" is code for "I'm going to kill you and end your misery", but we can't rule out the possibility of someone not getting it. And even if it's explained in greater detail, someone who might want to die one day, might not the next (or might have forgotten that they agreed to it yesterday).

Then there's the issue with someone else signing off. Who gets to do this? What if there are nefarious reasons behind it that the doctor may not be aware of? There's a reason most doctors shy away from this sort of thing, even when/where it's legal. No one wants to contemplate having ended someone's life when that person really did want to go on living. And while there are cases where it's very clear what the patient wants, there are some where it's not. Trying to find that line can be tricky, so it might be easier to just not put it there in the first place.


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someproteinguy wrote:


I don't know how BC does it, but we've had this on our books for a while. Once people gave up trying to repeal and fight it, it's pretty much been a non-issue. There haven't been any major problems arising from it at least.

Some points of note:

You have to have less than 6 months to live.
Doctors can opt out of offering the lethal dose of prescription.
You have to have witnesses sign off on it that aren't related, and aren't able to financially benefit from the death in any way.
You have to be mentally competent.


That actually sounds quite reasonable. This is how it should be done.


Yup. Oregon's law isn't half bad. There are still potential pitfalls though and it basically only covers those obvious cases I spoke of earlier. It doesn't at all address the issue with someone with failing mental/physical capabilities but who might live for many more years. It's kind of the low hanging fruit of the issue IMO. Let's face it, you could just do pain management for the person if they've only got 6 months anyway, and the whole suffering thing isn't as much of an issue. I think that the really controversial aspects of the issue lie with those who aren't going to die naturally in short order. That's where the moral issues really come up. Sure. Someone's got ALS. It's terrible. They'll suffer for years or even decades before dying naturally. There's no hope, right? But what if a year or two after you sign off on an assisted suicide for someone say in their 40s suffering from this disease, a breakthrough in stem cell research comes along with a complete cure that will reverse it? You've just killed someone who might have lived another 30 or 40 years needlessly.


The unfortunate part of this issue is that the longer the term of suffering one is facing the more questionable the idea of assisted suicide becomes from a medical/moral perspective. So those who would suffer the most and the longest are those we're least willing to "help" out of their condition. I'm just not sure there's a good and easy answer for this one.
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#30 Jul 18 2012 at 6:31 AM Rating: Good
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Monsieur Driftwood wrote:

But it wouldn't be the doctor making the decision. I'm not arguing that doctors should be able to choose to end their patients' lives. I'm arguing that the patients themselves have that right to choose for themselves.


The doctor has to make decisions.

Is the patient competent? It's not difficult to assume that a dying individual is on pain meds - are these interfering with the patients judgement?

Is the patient's condition undeniably terminal? We stories stories all the time of people that have beat the odds.

...and ultimately they have to decide that it's in the individuals best interest to end their life. Not an easy decision to come by.

It's called assisted suicide, because someone has agreed to assist.

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#31 Jul 18 2012 at 6:55 AM Rating: Excellent
Imma take the fiscal conservative route on assisted suicide: as long as you pay out of pocket for it & forfeit your life insurance, & as long as all the proper forms are filled out, let Doctor's assist.

Otherwise, the suicidal will just have to find a way to do it themselves.

If their Canadian, isn't easy enough to just find a bear to eat you?

Edited, Jul 18th 2012 8:55am by Omegavegeta
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#32 Jul 18 2012 at 8:15 AM Rating: Decent
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...and ultimately they have to decide that it's in the individuals best interest to end their life


"We've come to the conclusion that the best thing for you is to just not exist."
#33 Jul 18 2012 at 10:07 PM Rating: Decent
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The problem is that some people, especially elderly people, are relatively easy to talk into things, or can be made to sign things without really understanding what's at stake.


Go watch the video, or google the story. The decision can only be made to request assistance as long as one is coherent and capable of making that decision on their own.
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#34 Jul 19 2012 at 6:37 AM Rating: Good
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Omegavegeta wrote:


If their Canadian, isn't easy enough to just find a bear to eat you?

I've heard that bears prefer American (or French when they can get imports).
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#35 Jul 19 2012 at 7:41 AM Rating: Good
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I hear the moose are fairly vicious, though courteous.
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#36 Jul 19 2012 at 10:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'd be more scared of the mosquitoes. Nasty buggers.
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#37 Jul 19 2012 at 4:57 PM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
I'd be more scared of the mosquitoes. Nasty buggers.
You've been to Yellowknife, haven't you?
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#38 Jul 19 2012 at 5:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
I'd be more scared of the mosquitoes. Nasty buggers.
You've been to Yellowknife, haven't you?


Fort Simpson, Hay River, we didn't try and go around the lake though.

Also, still nursing some bites from my most recent trip to the Edmonton area... Smiley: frown


Edited, Jul 19th 2012 4:21pm by someproteinguy
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#39 Jul 19 2012 at 5:28 PM Rating: Good
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Mosquitoes up there are huge. And it's not like there's 5-10 flying around you, it's more like 500.
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#40 Jul 19 2012 at 7:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Mosquitoes up there are huge. And it's not like there's 5-10 flying around you, it's more like 500.


Smiley: lol

Well ok, that sounds kinda like my memories of Fort Simpson. There were swarms of them buzzing around anyone outside. On the ferry ride over we had to turn off the car, but didn't dare crack the windows with all of them crawling all over the place. That and the bees, they were huge too, and all over the car eating all the mosquitos and giant black flies we happened to hit on the drive up.

Also, something about how you knew it was about time to stop for gas because you couldn't see out the windshield anymore through all the bug splatters.
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#41 Jul 20 2012 at 7:39 AM Rating: Good
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More reason to not live in nature.
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#42 Jul 20 2012 at 9:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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I've never understood why suicide is illegal anyway. How the hell do you enforce it??
#43 Jul 20 2012 at 10:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Nadenu wrote:
I've never understood why suicide is illegal anyway. How the hell do you enforce it??


I always thought of that law as being literally an exercise in legal dark humour.
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#44 Jul 24 2012 at 12:44 PM Rating: Decent
The way people act about assisted suicide, you'd almost think it was hard to do it on your own..
#45 Jul 24 2012 at 1:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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#46 Jul 24 2012 at 1:20 PM Rating: Decent
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I promise that if I come down with a terminal disease any time soon, I'll Youtube it. Might even do something comical like take a handful of ecstasy before strapping myself to a motorcycle or something equally messy.
#47 Jul 24 2012 at 1:27 PM Rating: Good
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If it were time for me to go but I needed a nudge, I'd tie a great big chunk of hematite to my foot and jump in the ocean.
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