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#1 Jun 18 2012 at 3:41 PM Rating: Good
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Ok. Let's say it's early Sunday afternoon and you're going through a drive through ATM to get some cash. The car in front of you drives out, you pull up, get your wallet out, grab your ATM card, roll down the window, and are treated to a beeping ATM machine with the words "Do you need more time to complete your transaction?" with two buttons: "Continue" and "Return card".

Do you?
Hit continue, and drain as much cash as possible out of the stupid saps accounts.:0 (0.0%)
Hit continue, check out how much money the person has and then choose whether to take some:2 (4.2%)
Eject the card, do your transaction with your own card, then insert it back in for the next person to deal with:0 (0.0%)
Eject the card and keep it as a souvenir:1 (2.1%)
Eject the card and then turn it in. Cause that's the right thing to do and Karma will reward you:45 (93.8%)
Total:48



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#2 Jun 18 2012 at 3:47 PM Rating: Good
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I take $20 as Idiot Tax from the person's account, then turn it in.
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#3 Jun 18 2012 at 3:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yay for more karma. Smiley: yippee

They have video cameras there anyway right?
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#4 Jun 18 2012 at 4:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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Eject the card, leave it in the half out state and it'll get swallowed by the machine in about 30 seconds or so and kills the card while informing the owner that h/she forgot to grab their card.

Problem solved with no further action needed.
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#5 Jun 18 2012 at 4:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Oh. I forgot to add a possibility. After ejecting the card (assuming you choose to do so), you discover that it's a debit card. So the potential for going on a spending spree with said card after the fact is there as well I suppose.
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#6 Jun 18 2012 at 4:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Take the card and turn it in or see if the owner is in the book, cause I'm not a dick.
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#7 Jun 18 2012 at 4:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Haha, a thought experiment from gbaji to figure out if libberls like taking money from others.

I'll start the next one.

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Edited, Jun 18th 2012 5:50pm by AshOnMyTomatoes
#8 Jun 18 2012 at 4:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Does the dog have a debit card?
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#9 Jun 18 2012 at 4:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Does the dog have a debit card?
And the AIDs.
#10 Jun 18 2012 at 4:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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AIDS? Like she's on welfare?

And yes, it's a "she" dog I'm marrying. I'm not some weirdo.
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#11 Jun 18 2012 at 5:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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I was going to go with the last option but then I realized I would turn it in because I am not a massive dick and I don't give a crap about karma. Besides the point, if I still saw them ahead I would try to catch up to them and return their card.

-shrug- What would you do Gbaji? I am curious on that.
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#12 Jun 18 2012 at 5:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Most ATMs will require that you re-enter your PIN for another transaction. Therefore, question moot, karma preserved, souvenir acquired.

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#13 Jun 18 2012 at 5:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Morality aside, the legality of accessing someone else's account, no matter the victim's error, while being recorded on a security cam needs to be addressed. It's trivially easy to match up timestamps from the transactions to the video - and don't think that the camera staring you in the face is the only one. They're also watching the car itself and already have your license plate. In summary, anyone stupid enough to pull anything in that situation will soon get a visit from the boys in blue.
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#14 Jun 18 2012 at 5:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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And Demea has a point as well.
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#15 Jun 18 2012 at 5:35 PM Rating: Good
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I'd turn it in. Not because I'm an honest and kind-hearted fellow, but because it would take next to no effort to get caught stealing that way.
#16 Jun 18 2012 at 6:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'd turn it in, but I would check the balance first. Cause I'm nosy.

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#17 Jun 18 2012 at 7:20 PM Rating: Good
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turn it in. They have cameras.
Althoug I was at the airport the other day and went to the family restroom with two of the boys. On the changing table was $17 in cash. I hung around waiting for someone to knock onthe door looking for it, then wandered around the bathrooms for a few more minutes after waiting for someone to rush up, but no one did. So I bought the kids hot cocoa from Starbucks. I felt a little weird keeping it, but figured I gave whoever it was enough time to come back. And if I didnt take it, the next person definitely would have.
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#18 Jun 18 2012 at 7:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, cash is a little different, being untraceable and all. If I saw someone drop cash I would give it to them - I can say this definitely because I've done it before. A card has a name on it, or you can give it (or mail it) to the bank. Cash? If the person isn't there, or doesn't come looking for it, you can't really give it back.

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#19 Jun 18 2012 at 7:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'd turn it in because I would hope someone would do the same for me.

Samira wrote:
Yeah, cash is a little different, being untraceable and all. If I saw someone drop cash I would give it to them - I can say this definitely because I've done it before. A card has a name on it, or you can give it (or mail it) to the bank. Cash? If the person isn't there, or doesn't come looking for it, you can't really give it back.
I was out with Jr. once and he found like a $5 on the floor and he was THRILLED. I didn't have the heart to tell my shortie to turn it in to customer service or whatever.
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#20 Jun 18 2012 at 8:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Criminy wrote:
I was going to go with the last option but then I realized I would turn it in because I am not a massive dick and I don't give a crap about karma. Besides the point, if I still saw them ahead I would try to catch up to them and return their card.

-shrug- What would you do Gbaji? I am curious on that.


You mean "what did I do"? I ejected the card and proceeded with my transaction. I then waited around for about 10 minutes to see if the person would return, but she didn't. Then I attempted to drop it in the depository slot, but it required a key to open it. The bank was closed, so I tracked down the security for the mall the bank was attached to and turned it in to them. It's what I would hope someone would do if I left my card in the ATM for some reason.
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#21 Jun 18 2012 at 8:31 PM Rating: Good
Yeah, I picked the last option, because stealing is wrong. You may not know who the person is, but like someone else said, there is the option there of returning the card to someone. With cash, you don't really have that option unless it was in a wallet. So if I found some cash, I'd probably keep it. The security cameras around an ATM were an after thought.
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#22 Jun 18 2012 at 8:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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I did find a credit card on the street one time. I mailed it to the issuing bank with a note.
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#23 Jun 18 2012 at 9:55 PM Rating: Good
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I once found a credit card on the sidewalk while going to training for one of my old jobs. Took it with me and turned it in to the manager of the hotel the training was at.
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#24 Jun 18 2012 at 10:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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There was no option for "smal wrinkly mushroom considered a delacasy commonly found in west coast forrests"
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#25 Jun 18 2012 at 10:29 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Criminy wrote:
I was going to go with the last option but then I realized I would turn it in because I am not a massive dick and I don't give a crap about karma. Besides the point, if I still saw them ahead I would try to catch up to them and return their card.

-shrug- What would you do Gbaji? I am curious on that.


You mean "what did I do"? I ejected the card and proceeded with my transaction. I then waited around for about 10 minutes to see if the person would return, but she didn't. Then I attempted to drop it in the depository slot, but it required a key to open it. The bank was closed, so I tracked down the security for the mall the bank was attached to and turned it in to them. It's what I would hope someone would do if I left my card in the ATM for some reason.


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#26 Jun 19 2012 at 5:04 AM Rating: Decent
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My bank's ATMs don't keep your card at all anymore. You put your card in and then it's immediately ejected once it's read. THEN you put your info in. I haven't tried more than one transaction since they went with this method, but I'm guessing you'd have to use your card for every one.
#27 Jun 19 2012 at 5:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Nadenu wrote:
My bank's ATMs don't keep your card at all anymore. You put your card in and then it's immediately ejected once it's read. THEN you put your info in. I haven't tried more than one transaction since they went with this method, but I'm guessing you'd have to use your card for every one.


You typically only have to re-key your PIN. Card scanning is a one-time affair.

My bank still uses antiquated ATMs that keep the card until the transaction is complete. @#%^ers. Smiley: mad
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#28 Jun 19 2012 at 6:35 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Ok. Let's say it's early Sunday afternoon and you're going through a drive through ATM to get some cash. The car in front of you drives out, you pull up, get your wallet out, grab your ATM card, roll down the window, and are treated to a beeping ATM machine with the words "Do you need more time to complete your transaction?" with two buttons: "Continue" and "Return card".

Poll Removed: No more than one per thread, please!


There's nothing moral about this decision. It would be just stupid to think you could steal money this way and not get caught.

Here was a moral dilemma I faced once. My kids were grade schoolish at the time. We had just pulled out of some fast food drive-thru. I pulled the car over to sort out the various food items before hitting the road with burger in hand, and there I see a wallet on the ground. I retrieved it and didn't even have to open it up to see the cash bulging out of the thing. So, what to do?

I could have easily kept the wallet or simply taken the cash and dumped the wallet. Honestly, had the kids not been with me, I might have - I don't know. Money was still kinda tight back then. But the kids were with me, so I brought the thing inside, insisting on only leaving it in the hands of the manager who assured me he'd contact the owner (with lots of witnesses around).
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#29 Jun 19 2012 at 7:23 AM Rating: Good
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Cameras aren't mandatory, nor are they placed in positions to see the keypad or card slot. It's not nearly as easy to be caught as some of you guys are making it out to be.
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#30 Jun 19 2012 at 9:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Cameras aren't mandatory, nor are they placed in positions to see the keypad or card slot. It's not nearly as easy to be caught as some of you guys are making it out to be.


Of course they do. Then they match the time on the withdrawal up to the time on the video and you're busted! Come on this is like CSI 101 here... Smiley: oyvey
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#31 Jun 19 2012 at 11:01 AM Rating: Good
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I'd turn it in to the bank. I have no interest in ruining someone else' day.

In the case of the wallet I've actually driven to someone's house to return their wallet to them. Losing a wallet is one of the worst "minor" things that can happen to a person.
#32 Jun 19 2012 at 11:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Cameras aren't mandatory, nor are they placed in positions to see the keypad or card slot.

Why would they be? They're pointed to see YOU using the ATM at the time of the withdrawal. Usually in the ATM itself pointing right at your face as you choose between English and Spanish.
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#33 Jun 19 2012 at 1:03 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Cameras aren't mandatory, nor are they placed in positions to see the keypad or card slot. It's not nearly as easy to be caught as some of you guys are making it out to be.

If there are cameras at the ATM's in Podunk Maine, you can expect them most anywhere.

Someone was stealing plants around here - like landscaping plants. They'd dig them up right out of the ground. They were caught on camera when they stole a day Lilly from a bank. I find it kind of funny that someone is going to jail for stealing a Day Lilly. Had they just asked I'm sure someone would have given them some - they grow like weeds.
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#34 Jul 08 2012 at 4:31 AM Rating: Default
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The presented moral question isn't sufficent, since we have to contend with video cameras. And remarkably, the included drive-through parameter. Are we supposed to assume the teller makes no notice of our face so she can't hence give information to cops?

The real question is: If you have an opportunity to seize monies from another person absolutely without consequence, would you do so? I would. I've done it in the past, ironically in your setup, where me and another split a $300 deposit to an ATM that the fool actually didn't deposit. My barely moral justification then was: "This guy can afford to deposit $300, I can't afford $20".

If instead we were aware that pulling $300 from the atm or drive-through stopped a sorry soul from affording medication to thwart their death; or to prevent them from starving to death, that might give me pause. But this hasn't been presented. If the only question is taking random money from other people without consequence, of course I'll take it. I'll take $1 from everyone and have $7 billion. You wouldn't? Why not?

Hi Gbaji and everyone else.
#35 Jul 08 2012 at 4:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Oh. I forgot to add a possibility. After ejecting the card (assuming you choose to do so), you discover that it's a debit card. So the potential for going on a spending spree with said card after the fact is there as well I suppose.


In what world does a debit card not require a PIN?

Palpitus1 wrote:
The presented moral question isn't sufficent, since we have to contend with video cameras. And remarkably, the included drive-through parameter. Are we supposed to assume the teller makes no notice of our face so she can't hence give information to cops?

The real question is: If you have an opportunity to seize monies from another person absolutely without consequence, would you do so? I would. I've done it in the past, ironically in your setup, where me and another split a $300 deposit to an ATM that the fool actually didn't deposit. My barely moral justification then was: "This guy can afford to deposit $300, I can't afford $20".

If instead we were aware that pulling $300 from the atm or drive-through stopped a sorry soul from affording medication to thwart their death; or to prevent them from starving to death, that might give me pause. But this hasn't been presented. If the only question is taking random money from other people without consequence, of course I'll take it. I'll take $1 from everyone and have $7 billion. You wouldn't? Why not?

Hi Gbaji and everyone else.


The name screams Varus, but the writing style and attitude doesn't quite match, Who might you be?
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#36 Jul 08 2012 at 5:26 AM Rating: Default
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Monsieur Driftwood wrote:
The name screams Varus, but the writing style and attitude doesn't quite match, Who might you be?


I am your unacknowledged daughter. Why did you never write me, daddy? It took so long to find you on the internets. And now...i...i just don't know. do you ever think about me?
#37 Jul 08 2012 at 5:52 AM Rating: Excellent
Palpitus1 wrote:
Monsieur Driftwood wrote:
The name screams Varus, but the writing style and attitude doesn't quite match, Who might you be?


I am your unacknowledged daughter. Why did you never write me, daddy? It took so long to find you on the internets. And now...i...i just don't know. do you ever think about me?


I already told you, your mother was a cheap whore! And a @#%^ing terrible lay! Your daddy could be one of at least a hundred others. STOP. CALLING. ME!

@#%^!!

Edited, Jul 8th 2012 7:55am by Driftwood
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#38 Jul 08 2012 at 1:09 PM Rating: Good
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Like the majority of other people, I went with the last option. Maybe I was raised right or something; my father taught us all to respect other people's money. (He was a proper old school Republican, not the modern neo-con kind that respectfully relieve everyone else of their money through vulture capitalism. Where have you gone, party of Lincoln???) I'd do it even if I knew the security camera was broken.

If I did have a sudden moral collapse because I could use it for whatever I wanted with 0% chances of negative consequences, I'd probably do what the kids in Sneakers did, and make a large donation to Planned Parenthood in the name of the Tea Party for the lulz.

Kudos to Gbaji.

Edited, Jul 8th 2012 3:10pm by catwho
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#39 Jul 08 2012 at 2:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's probably this person http://everquest.allakhazam.com/users/Palpitus who hasn't figured out how the "retrieve old account password" thingy works.
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#41 Jul 09 2012 at 7:40 AM Rating: Good
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I was working in a Halloween store many many years ago and found both a Chick Tract and a credit card next to each other in our loading dock. The credit card wasn't anyone that I worked with so I have no idea how it got there. I just assumed it dropped off one of the delivery persons.

I kept the one that made a better souvenir.
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#42 Jul 09 2012 at 2:43 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
DERP


Smiley: oyvey

Also, Demea is correct. Even if you were just checking their balance, you would have to reenter their pin number and usually if you get it wrong 2 or 3 times, the machine will eat the card. (I had that happen when I was pregnant and couldn't remember my pin.)
#43 Jul 12 2012 at 12:36 AM Rating: Default
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
It's probably this person http://everquest.allakhazam.com/users/Palpitus who hasn't figured out how the "retrieve old account password" thingy works.


Yeah, that's me. "Retrieve old account password" didn't work, period, so I went with the next option--the original name plus a number.

catwho wrote:
Like the majority of other people, I went with the last option. Maybe I was raised right or something; my father taught us all to respect other people's money. (He was a proper old school Republican, not the modern neo-con kind that respectfully relieve everyone else of their money through vulture capitalism. Where have you gone, party of Lincoln???) I'd do it even if I knew the security camera was broken.


More like you were "raised right, to have food magically appear before you because your parents could afford it".

Sure, folks stealing Credit Cards in order to buy 25" plasma TVs should be condemned. But folks whose children or selves will literally die without food for another day/week? Stealing a CC from some "raised right" middle-class person, in order to survive?

Are property rights more moral than preventable death?
#44 Jul 12 2012 at 6:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Palpitus1 wrote:


Are property rights more moral than preventable death?
Whose death?

Everyone one of us by virtue of simply having the ability to view and participant in an internet forum have 'more' than someone else.

Was having the ugly spot removed from beneath my eye more moral than an ultrasound for an at-risk pregnancy of a woman without means?

Is your ability to post here, to eat healthy food, to own a computing device more moral than feeding a starving child?

Lose the self-righteousness and maybe your arguments can have some validity.






Edited, Jul 12th 2012 3:07pm by Elinda
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#45 Jul 12 2012 at 9:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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Palpitus1 wrote:
Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
It's probably this person http://everquest.allakhazam.com/users/Palpitus who hasn't figured out how the "retrieve old account password" thingy works.


Yeah, that's me. "Retrieve old account password" didn't work, period, so I went with the next option--the original name plus a number.


Or you could PM Darqflame and have her manually reset your password.
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#46 Jul 12 2012 at 9:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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Too much work.
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#47 Jul 14 2012 at 11:52 AM Rating: Good
Palpitus1 wrote:
Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
It's probably this person http://everquest.allakhazam.com/users/Palpitus who hasn't figured out how the "retrieve old account password" thingy works.


Yeah, that's me. "Retrieve old account password" didn't work, period, so I went with the next option--the original name plus a number.

catwho wrote:
Like the majority of other people, I went with the last option. Maybe I was raised right or something; my father taught us all to respect other people's money. (He was a proper old school Republican, not the modern neo-con kind that respectfully relieve everyone else of their money through vulture capitalism. Where have you gone, party of Lincoln???) I'd do it even if I knew the security camera was broken.


More like you were "raised right, to have food magically appear before you because your parents could afford it".

Sure, folks stealing Credit Cards in order to buy 25" plasma TVs should be condemned. But folks whose children or selves will literally die without food for another day/week? Stealing a CC from some "raised right" middle-class person, in order to survive?

Are property rights more moral than preventable death?


Ok, so, specifically, this:

Quote:
Sure, folks stealing Credit Cards in order to buy 25" plasma TVs should be condemned. But folks whose children or selves will literally die without food for another day/week? Stealing a CC from some "raised right" middle-class person, in order to survive?


You know, even when I was starving, broke, and about to become homeless, I wouldn't have used someone else's money unless they gave it to me and told me I could. I'm not above stealing a loaf of bread(harder to get away with than you might think, bread tends to be where there are lots of people and cameras for some reason), but it just doesn't seem right to me, to outright steal another individual's money.
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#48 Jul 15 2012 at 12:57 PM Rating: Good
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Isn't that the whole reason the food stamp program was put in place? So that folks so poor that they are about to die of starvation could at least get a loaf of bread and a carton of milk at the grocery store instead of committing petty theft?
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Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest on Lamia - Member of The Swarm and the League of Extraordinary Crafters
#49 Jul 15 2012 at 4:00 PM Rating: Good
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No, it's easier to steal bread and milk, so they can use the food stamps for cigarettes and booze.
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publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#50 Jul 15 2012 at 4:06 PM Rating: Good
Liberal Conspiracy
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catwho wrote:
Isn't that the whole reason the food stamp program was put in place? So that folks so poor that they are about to die of starvation could at least get a loaf of bread and a carton of milk at the grocery store instead of committing petty theft?

No, it's a wealth redistribution scheme created due to class envy and a desire to enslave the black race through reliance on the government.

I mean... duh.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#51 Jul 15 2012 at 4:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
catwho wrote:
Isn't that the whole reason the food stamp program was put in place? So that folks so poor that they are about to die of starvation could at least get a loaf of bread and a carton of milk at the grocery store instead of committing petty theft?

No, it's a wealth redistribution scheme created due to class envy and a desire to enslave the black race through reliance on the government.

I mean... duh.


It's just obvious.
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"Observe what happens when you force a man to change"
Just as Planned.
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