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WSJ to Tea Party: Stop Being So ConservativeFollow

#1 Apr 30 2012 at 3:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303513404577355682588675176.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop
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The tea party movement has generally been constructive, but every so often it runs off the road. A case in point is its emerging condominium with the anti-antiterror left to block terrorist detentions.

This strange alliance has developed in response to one of Congress's rare bipartisan achievements—the 2012 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA). That bill affirmed the long-standing distinction between civilian justice and the rules of war by letting the President detain terrorists (including U.S. citizens) captured anywhere and question them as long as necessary. A President can decide to try them in either military or civilian courts, and the right of habeas corpus to challenge detention in court, established by the Supreme Court's 2004 Hamdi decision, is unchanged.

This modest law has sprouted a burst of political delusion in several states and Congress. A tea party outfit called the Tenth Amendment Center calls the law "an unconstitutional and dangerous federal power grab"—though the statute merely codifies existing practice under Presidents Bush and Obama. In the wilder tea party precincts, the talk is that in a second term Mr. Obama might round people up, a la Japanese-Americans after Pearl Harbor.

I had myself a hearty lol at the first sentence, and the Journal's description of the legalization of indefinite detentions of US citizens as "modest."

Boy, I'm sure glad we elected a president willing to put a stop to all these shenanigans. Change I can believe in!
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#2 Apr 30 2012 at 3:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm trying to wrap my had around their use of the word condominium in the way they used it.
#3 Apr 30 2012 at 3:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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The paranoia is showing up in state legislatures, and this month Virginia became the first to forbid state employees from "assisting" the feds "in the conduct of the investigation, prosecution, or detention of any citizen" under the provisions of the NDAA. This means that as of July 1 in Richmond a state trooper could not arrest the likes of the late Virginia cleric-turned-terrorist-recruiter Anwar al-Awlaki because he might end up in a military brig. A U.S. missile targeted and killed Awlaki in Yemen on Presidential orders, but Virginia police couldn't detain him.


Our town left the Joint Terrorism Task Force years ago, because of concerns about the handling of 'domestic terrorists.' We ended up in the interesting position when this happened a while later. None of the local law enforcement had any idea there was someone planning to plant a bomb at the local tree-lighting thing until after it was all over. The whole undercover operation, fake bomb being planted, etc wasn't shared with them. Opposing these things has weird consequences sometimes.

Edited, Apr 30th 2012 2:57pm by someproteinguy
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#4 Apr 30 2012 at 4:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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In the wilder tea party precincts, the talk is that in a second term Mr. Obama might round people up, a la Japanese-Americans after Pearl Harbor.

Michelle Bachmann, dat j00?
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#5 Apr 30 2012 at 4:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Shouldn't the title say "Stop Being So Liberal"?
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#6 Apr 30 2012 at 5:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
I'm trying to wrap my had around their use of the word condominium in the way they used it.



It's the original definition. From lolwiki:

Quote:
In international law, a condominium (plural either condominia, as in Latin, or condominiums) is a political territory (state or border area) in or over which two or more sovereign powers formally agree to share equally dominium (in the sense of sovereignty) and exercise their rights jointly, without dividing it up into 'national' zones.


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#7 Apr 30 2012 at 6:42 PM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
I'm trying to wrap my had around their use of the word condominium in the way they used it.



It's the original definition. From lolwiki:

Quote:
In international law, a condominium (plural either condominia, as in Latin, or condominiums) is a political territory (state or border area) in or over which two or more sovereign powers formally agree to share equally dominium (in the sense of sovereignty) and exercise their rights jointly, without dividing it up into 'national' zones.




Good to see the WSJ decided to speak to the Tea Party folks in the sort of language they would use at home...
#8 Apr 30 2012 at 7:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Shouldn't the title say "Stop Being So Liberal"?
I'm fairly confident that limiting the extra-constitutional power of the executive is pretty much the most conservative of political ideals.
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#9 Apr 30 2012 at 7:48 PM Rating: Default
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Demea wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Shouldn't the title say "Stop Being So Liberal"?
I'm fairly confident that limiting the extra-constitutional power of the executive is pretty much the most conservative of political ideals.


But that's not what the WSJ article is saying. It's saying that areas of legitimate national defense *are* within the power of the executive, and that those Tea Party groups are basically acting like liberal ACLU nutters when they focus on the semantics of the issue "OMG! They're able to lock people up without trials!!!", while failing to grasp the facts of the issue (that legitimately identified enemy combatants have *always* been locked up without civilian trials). What's supposed to make us conservatives is that we understand that the principle of limited government does not apply to the power the government has, but when, where and why it can use it. By making that sort of all-or-nothing argument, those people are not acting like conservatives, but like liberals.

Hence my statement. While you're free to disagree with their assessment, it's certainly wrong to say that the WSJ was saying that they were acting too conservative. It's quite clear that the WSJ's point is that they're acting too much like liberals. So color me confused how you managed to get this completely backwards.
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#10 Apr 30 2012 at 10:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smiley: laugh
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#11 May 01 2012 at 7:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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What's supposed to make us conservatives is that we understand that the principle of limited government does not apply to the power the government has, but when, where and why it can use it.

I don't even know where to begin.
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#12 May 01 2012 at 7:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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You can start with the article, and be content in the knowledge that you're at least a step ahead of him already.
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#13 May 01 2012 at 8:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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Demea wrote:
I don't even know where to begin.

Begin with the knowledge that Gbaji will never, ever admit to any fault with conservatism or its advocates* and then you can probably end there as well. It's a pretty short road to understanding Gbaji.

*If any are making egregious errors, it's because they're actually liberals being inaccurately labeled as conservatives

Also, apropos of nothing, Governor Walker of Wisconsin sent me a fund-raising letter yesterday praising my actions as a conservative leader.

Edited, May 1st 2012 9:07am by Jophiel
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#14 May 01 2012 at 8:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think maybe the disconnect is my use of the word "conservative", which does not necessarily mean "Republican."

Joph, he was probably referring to that one time you voted for a GOP candidate for state senate, like, a decade ago.
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#15 May 01 2012 at 8:18 AM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
I'm trying to wrap my had around their use of the word condominium in the way they used it.



It's the original definition. From lolwiki:

Quote:
In international law, a condominium (plural either condominia, as in Latin, or condominiums) is a political territory (state or border area) in or over which two or more sovereign powers formally agree to share equally dominium (in the sense of sovereignty) and exercise their rights jointly, without dividing it up into 'national' zones.




Yep, I found that definition of it before my first post. Still don't see how it applies, though.
#16 May 01 2012 at 8:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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Demea wrote:
Joph, he was probably referring to that one time you voted for a GOP candidate for state senate, like, a decade ago.

I didn't vote for him due to balance of power reasons but, to his credit, Kirk was doing a better-than-expected job up to the point where he decided to have a stroke.
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#17 May 01 2012 at 1:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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For a moment there, I imagined you were speaking of THE Kirk, ie James T., and it made me love you a little more.
#18 May 01 2012 at 1:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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So wait... now you love me a little less since I wasn't?
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#19 May 01 2012 at 1:34 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
So wait... now you love me a little less since I wasn't?


She loves you the same, you just missed a conversation opportunity for an affection gain. Kind of like in that game Eske doesn't like us to talk about, only in real life there are no mods that allow you to redo the conversation if you ***** up.

Edited, May 1st 2012 2:38pm by Bigdaddyjug
#20 May 01 2012 at 1:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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The scale for diminishing returns on gifts is more favorable, however.
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#21 May 01 2012 at 1:45 PM Rating: Good
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Kind of like in that game Eske doesn't like us to talk about, only in real life there are no mods that allow you to redo the conversation if you ***** up.
I find a well placed concussion lets me have any number of extra redos for conversations.
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#22 May 01 2012 at 1:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Kind of like in that game Eske doesn't like us to talk about, only in real life there are no mods that allow you to redo the conversation if you ***** up.
I find a well placed concussion lets me have any number of extra redos for skip the conversations.
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Jophiel wrote:
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#23 May 01 2012 at 1:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
So wait... now you love me a little less since I wasn't?


She loves you the same, you just missed a conversation opportunity for an affection gain. Kind of like in that game Eske doesn't like us to talk about, only in real life there are no mods that allow you to redo the conversation if you ***** up.

Edited, May 1st 2012 2:38pm by Bigdaddyjug
This. I am sure you will rally, love. Make a joke about Hitler.
#24 May 01 2012 at 2:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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You know who else got people to rally when things seemed bleakest...?
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#25 May 01 2012 at 2:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
You know who else got people to rally when things seemed bleakest...?
MY MOM.
Screenshot
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#26 May 01 2012 at 2:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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I was thinking "Abraham Lincoln".
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