Patently false. Every eye witness account places Martin as the aggressor. No eye witness account places Zimmerman as the aggressor. While we can't say just by looking at who's on top at the end of a fight who started the fight, we can also only go based on the facts we have. At no point did any witness observe Zimmerman on top or in an aggressive position (until after he fired his gun). You're leading with your assumption and inventing facts to match.
You're making a fair amount of assumptions yourself, bucko. Nobody witnessed the start of the fight.
Which I addressed with the statement "While we can't say just by looking at who's on top at the end of a fight who started the fight...". I'm the one stating over and over that we don't know who started the fight, so we can't assume it was Zimmerman.
You can't say that Martin was the aggressor.
At what point? He was absolutely the aggressor during the time period when (at least) three different witnesses all saw him straddling Zimmerman beating him. I've yet to find a single witness account who actually saw Zimmerman throw a punch, or at any point be in control of the situation. Not one.
You could say that he was winning the fight, until the gun came out, but not that he initiated it.
Ok. But you're switching terms there. I didn't say he initiated it, only that he was the aggressor "during the fight". The fact that we can't know for sure who started the fight does not preclude us from observing who was clearly in control of the fight and clearly attacking the other guy during the fight. Again, we can't conclude from this who started it, but it does blow some serious holes in the argument that Martin was some passive kid whose only objective during the whole thing was to get home.
Do I need to go back to earlier in this thread and start quoting people talking about how Zimmerman "cornered him" or was otherwise keeping him from simply running away? Clearly, Martin could have gotten away if that's all he wanted. He choose to straddle Zimmerman and continue punching him and beating him. This is not the act of a scared little boy who just wants to go home.
There are a fair number of viable scenarios in which either could be the aggressor, and also the possibility that Zimmerman is lying about the encounter to save his ass.
Sure. And space aliens could have abducted them both during the fracas too! But we can only act on the evidence we have. We have zero evidence that Zimmerman initiated the physical altercation
. And "physical altercation" does not mean following him, or talking to him. It means physically laying hands on the other person in some way.
I guess I'm not sure what people want here. Zimmerman should be arrested and charged because he could have done something? I could have robbed a bank yesterday. Does the fact that I can't prove otherwise make me guilty? No? Then neither does the fact that Zimmerman can't prove he didn't initiate the fight make him guilty.
Does that sound more or less likely than a teenager unfamiliar with the neighborhood deciding to pick a fight with some random adult?
The difference is that I'm not precluding the possibility that Zimmerman is lying to save his ass. But a whole hell of a lot of people are precluding the possibility that Martin was doing something suspicious and did start the fight and Zimmerman was acting in self-defense. Read some of the stuff being said out there. People are howling for Zimmerman's head, based solely on assumptions that Zimmerman must have been in the wrong because a 17 year old they've never met and don't know could not possibly have been doing anything suspicious, and could not possibly have initiated the fight.
I'm not calling for immediate action, or escalating the issue, or assuming that the police have failed to do their jobs because they didn't arrive at a conclusion I like. Yet, there are a whole lot of highly publicly visible and influential people doing exactly that. And frankly, they should be ashamed for it. I'm all for making sure justice is done, but if you're going to pick a cause to fight, perhaps you should actually get the facts first? The sad part to all of this, is that the next time there is a kid like Martin who's unfairly treated by our legal system, there will be less support for that cause because those calling for it have cried wolf too many times when they were in the wrong. Edited, Mar 26th 2012 5:12pm by gbaji