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#77 Mar 21 2012 at 8:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nilatai wrote:
Unless the kid was armed, which he wasn't, there's no way he's taking down that other guy. That's the point, isn't it? The only way to justify him killing the kid is if his life was in danger.


If the shooter believed the kid was armed and coming for him, he'd be protected under the law even if he were mistaken. Of course this depends on convincing twelve of your peers that you sincerely thought your life was in danger; but again, Derp Central.
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#78 Mar 21 2012 at 8:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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GUYS.

Gbaji just agreed with an expert.

Granted, it's unclear who this expert is, but still. Progress.
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#79 Mar 21 2012 at 8:36 PM Rating: Good
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This doesn't even have to be a racial prejudice crime to know that Zimmerman was already making assumptions, and feeling aggressive about strangers in his neighbourhood at night. Right at the start of the call Zimmerman reports that there have been a string of burglaries in his neighbourhood recently. He then goes on to say that the teen is "looking at the houses". He repeats at least a couple of times that the teen is carrying something that he can't make out, and then says about 1 minutes in or so "these ***-holes always get away". I like to look at houses, and trees, even when it's raining, and Martin was new to the neighbourhood. I presume he was rubbernecking in the same way I would in a new area.

Zimmerman has clearly decided, before he got anywhere near Martin, that Martin is a burgler.

The dispatch caller seems to pick this up, and tries several ways to de-escalate the situation. He says "you don't need to follow him", stresses the police are on their way at least twice, asks for Zimmerman's full name and phone number, and tries more than once to get Zimmerman to park in a specific place, and when Zimmerman refuses, asks Zimmerman to meet the police at a specific rendezvous which Zimmerman also refuses.

If the dispatcher was a police officer, Zimmerman failed to comply with police direction several times before he shot Martin.
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#80 Mar 21 2012 at 8:43 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Make it a fair comparison. What if it were a middle class black man with no criminal record, who was part of a citizen patrol or neighborhood watch or whatever he was part of, who encountered a young white kid wearing a hoodie and otherwise doing exactly what Martin did. Same case. Same struggle. Same result.

Would anyone assume the killing was racially motivated? Would the same volume of people be calling out for "justice" for the victim? Or would we all just have never heard about it?

If the black man was recorded saying "fuckin' ******" then yes.
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#81 Mar 21 2012 at 8:50 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Seriously? I always pictured gbaji as being 28, max. Then again, I've pictured him at that age for years now...
Smiley: lol Really?
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#82 Mar 21 2012 at 8:51 PM Rating: Good
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Sir Spoonless wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Seriously? I always pictured gbaji as being 28, max. Then again, I've pictured him at that age for years now...
Smiley: lol Really?


Honestly, I've always kinda seen him as a stereotypical frat boy type character. I dunno, the way he thinks just always struck me that way.
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#83 Mar 21 2012 at 8:59 PM Rating: Good
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I honestly wasn't even aware that "****" was a racial slur. I've never heard of it.

Edited, Mar 21st 2012 10:59pm by Eske
#84 Mar 21 2012 at 9:03 PM Rating: Good
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Debalic wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Make it a fair comparison. What if it were a middle class black man with no criminal record, who was part of a citizen patrol or neighborhood watch or whatever he was part of, who encountered a young white kid wearing a hoodie and otherwise doing exactly what Martin did. Same case. Same struggle. Same result.

Would anyone assume the killing was racially motivated? Would the same volume of people be calling out for "justice" for the victim? Or would we all just have never heard about it?

If the black man was recorded saying "fuckin' ******" then yes.
If Zimmerman was black, called to say that there was a string of burglaries in the neighbourhood recently, described a white teen as looking at all the houses, and as carrying something he couldn't make out, and said "these ***-holes always get away with it", then disobeyed several dispatch suggestions then orders, to wait for police and leave the teen alone, then I'd be screaming for justice for the victim too.
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#85 Mar 21 2012 at 9:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Debalic wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
WHY ARE YOU PEOPLE GETTING SIDETRACKED BY GBAJI'S RACISM BULLSHIT?

Because it's the easiest argument for gbaji to pick apart, which is why he focused on it.


Debalic wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Make it a fair comparison. What if it were a middle class black man with no criminal record, who was part of a citizen patrol or neighborhood watch or whatever he was part of, who encountered a young white kid wearing a hoodie and otherwise doing exactly what Martin did. Same case. Same struggle. Same result.

Would anyone assume the killing was racially motivated? Would the same volume of people be calling out for "justice" for the victim? Or would we all just have never heard about it?

If the black man was recorded saying "fuckin' ******" then yes.


Seems like someone else is obsessed with race, and it aint me.
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#86 Mar 21 2012 at 9:08 PM Rating: Good
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#87 Mar 21 2012 at 9:10 PM Rating: Good
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I've been known to call people ****** once in a while.

I find it hilarious.
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#88 Mar 21 2012 at 9:12 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
Make it a fair comparison. What if it were a middle class black man with no criminal record, who was part of a citizen patrol or neighborhood watch or whatever he was part of, who encountered a young white kid wearing a hoodie and otherwise doing exactly what Martin did. Same case. Same struggle. Same result.

Would anyone assume the killing was racially motivated? Would the same volume of people be calling out for "justice" for the victim? Or would we all just have never heard about it?

If the black man was recorded saying "fuckin' ******" then yes.
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#89 Mar 21 2012 at 9:18 PM Rating: Good
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#90 Mar 21 2012 at 9:18 PM Rating: Decent
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publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#91 Mar 21 2012 at 9:19 PM Rating: Default
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Aripyanfar wrote:
If Zimmerman was black, called to say that there was a string of burglaries in the neighbourhood recently, described a white teen as looking at all the houses, and as carrying something he couldn't make out, and said "these ***-holes always get away with it", then disobeyed several dispatch suggestions then orders, to wait for police and leave the teen alone, then I'd be screaming for justice for the victim too.


I don't think you would. More correctly, I don't think you'd have ever heard about it because there would be no national news story. No million signatures on a petition demanding action by/against the police. No NAACP folks showing up and demanding justice. No outrage at all. You would never have heard about it.

You do realize that the only reason you know about this case is because the victim was black, right? It fits into a racial context which groups like the NAACP can use, so they swoop in and raise awareness and garner national attention over the issue. You respond to it because of that, not because of the case itself.
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#92 Mar 21 2012 at 9:19 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
I've been known to call people ****** once in a while.

I find it hilarious.

I often refer to myself as whitebread.
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we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#93 Mar 21 2012 at 9:28 PM Rating: Default
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Aripyanfar wrote:
Well gee, someone accused **** Cheese of revisionist history, not that you'll be interested:
lolwiki wrote:
] Disagreement

The accuracy of Dairy Farmers' account of the origin of the brand has been challenged. Anti-racism campaigner Stephen Hagan has said that he has been unable to find evidence that Edward **** was a famous cheese maker, contending that the name came instead from the black wraparound in which it was originally sold.[10] In 2008 he was reported to be "questioning the makers of **** cheese about the origin of the brand name".[11] Hagan has said that Edward **** was an obscure factory hand who was induced to subscribe his name to the patent for cheese manufacture some time after the brand had been in use.[citation needed]


Sounds more to me like they're the victims of revisionist history. I'm not sure why there's such a need to single out what really is a pretty obscure racist term as though that's the only use of that word ever. I suppose Davy Crockett never actually wore a "**** skin hat", but the label was invented for the TV show so as to make secret and threatening racist remarks or something equally devious.
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#94 Mar 21 2012 at 9:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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No. Excessive Force news stories come up all the time. The latest one in Australia is about the police tasering a guy in his twenties to death. Since no detail of the guy's race came up, I presume he was Caucasian. The guy was running away from the police officer when the officer tasered him and he died of a heart attack.

People are now calling for tasers to be removed from all police except the SWAT type force. They point out that tasers were designed to be used as alternative options to firearms. The most wished for use for them was for tragic situations where psychotic and suicidal men insisted on suicide-by-police. The situations that were too dangerous for police officers to get close enough to use capsicum spray, because the suicidal men/teens are waving a large knife around. However, since tasers were introduced, police fire-arm use has remained exactly the same, deaths by police shootings has remained exactly the same, while taser use has increased exponentially. Obviously tasers aren't being used here as an alternative to fire-arms, but in non dangerous situations where police want a fast way to enforce compliance.

Edited, Mar 21st 2012 11:35pm by Aripyanfar
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#95 Mar 21 2012 at 9:30 PM Rating: Good
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Eske Esquire wrote:
I honestly wasn't even aware that "****" was a racial slur. I've never heard of it.

Edited, Mar 21st 2012 10:59pm by Eske



I haven't ever heard it outside the south before but it is widely used down here. Its used in Forest Gump too when he talking about his mom having to run coons(he thought it was the the animal) off the back porch but the guys around him were using it as a slur.


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#96 Mar 21 2012 at 9:30 PM Rating: Good
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Um, wasn't that hat made out of (or supposedly made out of) Racoon skin?
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#97 Mar 21 2012 at 9:34 PM Rating: Good
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Aripyanfar wrote:
No. Excessive Force news stories come up all the time. The latest one in Australia is about the police tasering a guy in his twenties to death. Since no detail of the guy's race came up, I presume he was Caucasian. The guy was running away from the police officer when the officer tasered him and he died of a heart attack.
How was that excessive force? Without any details, all it sounds like is the police was following procedure and an unknown complication arose and an unfortunate fatality was the result. Did he fall asleep with his finger holding the trigger for like an hour?
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#98 Mar 21 2012 at 9:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Aripyanfar wrote:
Um, wasn't that hat made out of (or supposedly made out of) Racoon skin?

No, black people have brown-and-white ringed tails. I thought everybody knew that...
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#99 Mar 21 2012 at 9:42 PM Rating: Good
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Tasars have ALWAYS been known to be fatal options when used correctly, in one single short burst to drop the suspect. You are, after all, electocuting someone. They just have smaller odds of killing someone than a torso, head, or thigh artery gun shot. This is why tasers were introduced to be used as an alternative to shooting someone with a gun. Not to be used in any situation where you wouldn't use a gun. From what I've seen on TV, and correct me if I'm wrong, it's illegal for a cop both in American and Australia to shoot someone in the back; from behind; when they're running away, unless there are extreme extenuating circumstances.
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#100 Mar 21 2012 at 9:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Debalic wrote:
Aripyanfar wrote:
Um, wasn't that hat made out of (or supposedly made out of) Racoon skin?

No, black people have brown-and-white ringed tails. I thought everybody knew that...

No, they're orange, but if they catch you staring at it they'll throw a flaming bouncey ball at you.

EDIT:
My bad I was thinking of Italians.

Edited, Mar 21st 2012 11:46pm by SillyXSara
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#101 Mar 21 2012 at 10:01 PM Rating: Good
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http://abc.com.au/news/2012-03-19/taser-debate-resurfaces-after-death-of-man/3897430

In this Australian case, There was a reported robbery at a convenience store. The police found this man two blocks over, but didn't know if they had the right suspect. He resisted arrest, they capsicum sprayed him, then tasered him. (When I first heard the news report on Melbourne TV news, he was reported as "running away" when he was tasered.) They tried to revive him on the scene. The police are asking for help in identifying the man, as they haven't done so yet. An autopsy is being performed because they don't know how he died. They ALSO have not confirmed that there was a robbery at the convenient store in the first place.

Apparently the suspect didn't produce a weapon while resisting arrest, because no mention of him having a weapon has ever been made. So a police officer used an item they are supposed to use in situations they would previously use a gun in, to arrest a man with no weapon. One single suspect against more than one officer.

Edited, Mar 22nd 2012 12:14am by Aripyanfar
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