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Faster than light nutrinos...Follow

#1 Feb 22 2012 at 5:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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...were the result of a lose wire. Apparently.

While applauding the Italian researchers’ careful experiments, most of the world of physics assumed the scofflaw particles were the result of some kind of mistake, because nothing can go faster than light. Theories abounded, from fun relativity reasons to simple math errors. It turns out it was even more boring, more humdrum, more insipid than even that — someone hadn’t plugged in a wire all the way. Science Insider broke the news this afternoon, citing unnamed sources familiar with the experiment.



Shame. I had a feeling it would be something simple, but there was always the tiny part of me which was excited by it!

Ah well.


ETA: Apparently they're doing more tests soon any way. So we'll see.

Edited, Feb 22nd 2012 6:38pm by Nilatai
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#2 Feb 22 2012 at 5:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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I blame mice playing with the power cables. Their revenge on all scientists is imminent.
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#3 Feb 22 2012 at 5:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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That just means I can be a scientist, with how often I forget to plug in the toaster in the morning.
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#4 Feb 22 2012 at 5:48 PM Rating: Good
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Means you can be a lab tech. Smiley: tongue

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#5 Feb 22 2012 at 5:58 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, I never believed the findings. It IS a shame though, would have been super interesting for science.
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#6 Feb 22 2012 at 6:20 PM Rating: Decent
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You misspelled Science! there.
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#7 Feb 22 2012 at 6:32 PM Rating: Good
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HAHA! Can you imagine being that person that didn't plug it in and/or check it?!

I'm using this guy/gal as an example next time I have a bug in my code, which is never... ;)
#8 Feb 23 2012 at 4:38 AM Rating: Good
Hey, Gbaji, photons still don't have mass.

Also, RDMcandle probably owes me $200.
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#9 Feb 23 2012 at 7:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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That just means I can be a scientist, with how often I forget to plug in the toaster in the morning.

Why do you unplug your toaster? Just general fire safety?
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#10 Feb 23 2012 at 7:28 AM Rating: Good
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Not enough outlets in the kitchen?
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#11 Feb 23 2012 at 7:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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Off topic, but I keep seeing this thread and thinking it's about nutria. Faster than light nutria would be AWESOME.

Also, I unplug appliances to save electricity. Cause I'm thrifty.

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#12 Feb 23 2012 at 7:45 AM Rating: Good
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#13 Feb 23 2012 at 7:53 AM Rating: Good
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My toaster is so old that even plugging it in doesn't use electricity. I'm always amazed when the little red bars start glowing. I need a new one, but who ever really leaves the house with the intention of buying a toaster??
#14 Feb 23 2012 at 8:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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Duke Lubriderm wrote:
Why do you unplug your toaster? Just general fire safety?
Muscle memory. Growing up my mother encouraged the practice of unplugging appliances when they weren't in use. And by encourage, I mean a swing of a wooden ladle.
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#15 Feb 23 2012 at 8:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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If the appliance uses capacitors, the surge upon being plugged in to refill the capacitor probably uses more electricity than leaving it plugged in all day would have, plus repeatedly unplugging things wears on the cord prongs and the outlets.
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#16 Feb 23 2012 at 10:07 AM Rating: Good
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
If the appliance uses capacitors, the surge upon being plugged in to refill the capacitor probably uses more electricity than leaving it plugged in all day would have, plus repeatedly unplugging things wears on the cord prongs and the outlets.

True, but I'm not entirely sure how many kitchen appliances actually use capacitors...
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#17 Feb 23 2012 at 12:25 PM Rating: Default
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#18 Feb 23 2012 at 9:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nilatai wrote:
Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
If the appliance uses capacitors, the surge upon being plugged in to refill the capacitor probably uses more electricity than leaving it plugged in all day would have, plus repeatedly unplugging things wears on the cord prongs and the outlets.

True, but I'm not entirely sure how many kitchen appliances actually use capacitors...


anything with a control board these days. Dishwashers, most stoves with digital oven controls, most refridgerators with ice makers, almost all microwaves, Bread makers, Some toasters.
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#19 Feb 23 2012 at 9:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't have a microwave oven, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
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#20 Feb 23 2012 at 9:14 PM Rating: Good
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
If the appliance uses capacitors, the surge upon being plugged in to refill the capacitor probably uses more electricity than leaving it plugged in all day would have, plus repeatedly unplugging things wears on the cord prongs and the outlets.

True, but I'm not entirely sure how many kitchen appliances actually use capacitors...


anything with a control board these days. Dishwashers, most stoves with digital oven controls, most refridgerators with ice makers, almost all microwaves, Bread makers, Some toasters.

Most of those you don't unplug regularly. I tend to unplug stuff that heats up, toaster and griddle.

I almost bought a bread-maker the other day. It was at the goodwill store. A black and decker that didn't look used at all. I picked it up, set it down, picked it up, set it down then bought a couple purty necklaces out of the half-price jewelry basket.

Anyone use a bread-maker - like regularly? Or does it just become another worthless appliance?

Edit to add - I have two power strips I shut off nightly - electronics and lamps on them mostly (phantom energy Smiley: eek)

Edited, Feb 24th 2012 4:16am by Elinda
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#21 Feb 23 2012 at 9:18 PM Rating: Good
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Everyone I know who purchased a bread maker used it all the time for the first month or two they owned it.

Then it went into the cupboard and hasn't been used for years. It's just one of those things that are like "Oh, it's new, I'll use this all the time" and you end up using it less and less and just go out and buy a 1 dollar loaf of bread.
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#22 Feb 23 2012 at 9:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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I use my bread maker occasionally. The newer ones do alot more than just make bread or dough, they have custard settings, etc. Mine just makes dough though. and bread. I do use it to make my dough for my ultimate cinimon roll recipie of doom though! (also works as a pizza crust)

Kaolian’s Ultimate Cinnamon Rolls of Doom!

Bread base
1/3 cup milk
1 cup cream cheese, diced
1/4 cup butter
1 egg
3 tablespoons white sugar
1 teaspoon salt
3 cups bread flour
2 1/2 teaspoons active dry yeast

Filling
1/2 cup butter, softened
1 cup firmly-packed brown sugar
3 to 4 tablespoons cinnamon (use the good stuff)
1 cup raisens

Topping (stolen from Cinnabon)
2 ounces cream cheese, room temperature
1/4 cup butter, room temperature
1 cup powdered sugar
1/2 teaspoons vanilla extract
1/4 teaspoon almond extract

Combine bread ingredients in bread machine set on “dough only” Roll resulting dough into large flat rectangle, roughly 1/3“ thick. Combine filling ingredients, spread on surface of dough, then roll up and cut into 2 inch sections. Place sections into buttered and floured 9 x 13 pan. Cover with a towel and let rise for 60 minutes. Bake at 350 degrees f for 23 minutes. Cover with topping while still warm from oven for best results.
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#23 Feb 23 2012 at 9:31 PM Rating: Good
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I would make cinnamon rolls with the frozen premade dough from Schwan's. It turned out just fine. Same filling (minus the raisins). The topping would be just more of the filling, spread ontop and melted. I liked it better than a cream topping.
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#24 Feb 23 2012 at 9:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
Anyone use a bread-maker - like regularly?


I did when I lived with someone who owned one. It did the job, easier but less satisfying than kneading dough by hand. And a **** to clean.

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#25 Feb 24 2012 at 8:21 AM Rating: Good
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... And a **** to clean.

Cleanability is a big issue for me. I tried to imagine how hard or easy the thing would be to clean, but I just couldn't get a good gauge on it.

I'm happy with my decision to NOT purchase the bread-maker even though it was a steal at ten bucks. If I bought it, I'd probably be laden with guilt every day I didn't bake a loaf of break in it.
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#26 Feb 24 2012 at 8:25 AM Rating: Good
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#27 Feb 24 2012 at 8:52 AM Rating: Excellent
My bread maker is teflon or something, and so is super easy to clean. I don't use it for baking though, just making the dough. I don't like how breadmaker bread turns out when baked in the bread maker.
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#28 Feb 24 2012 at 2:07 PM Rating: Decent
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I love my bread maker. Put stuff in, set timer, wake up to fresh made bread. Nothing is better in the morning than fresh made bread toast and it literally takes 2-3 minutes to setup with everything in it once you get some good recipes down.

They're all non-stick from what I've seen, not hard to clean at all. People don't use them much after the first little while because they are bulky and take up a lot of counter space. People don't want to take them out of the cupboard.

I tend to go in spurts for the same reason. I use it until it gets put away to make room for something else, then I can't be assed to pull it out so it doesn't get used for months. I LOOOVE it when I use it though.

They're great for pizza dough too :).

Edited, Feb 24th 2012 3:08pm by Yodabunny
#29 Feb 24 2012 at 2:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Ya gotta pay the troll toll to get into this boy's hole.


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#30 Feb 24 2012 at 4:41 PM Rating: Good
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Duke Lubriderm wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
That just means I can be a scientist, with how often I forget to plug in the toaster in the morning.

Why do you unplug your toaster? Just general fire safety?


my gf does it because she doesn't like wasting power. Just about everything plugged in will draw a small amount of power (phantom power) whether it is being used or not.
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#31 Feb 24 2012 at 4:42 PM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:


Anyone use a bread-maker - like regularly? Or does it just become another worthless appliance?



I have a bread maker, and she also looks pretty in lingerie.

Sir Xsarus wrote:
I don't like how breadmaker bread turns out when baked in the bread maker.


This. Home made sourdough (no knead method) made by my sweetheart for the win!

Looks a lot like this and is yuuuuumy




Edited, Feb 24th 2012 2:46pm by Olorinus
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#32 Feb 24 2012 at 6:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Olorinus wrote:
my gf does it because she doesn't like wasting power. Just about everything plugged in will draw a small amount of power (phantom power) whether it is being used or not.


Unless it's got some kind of auto detection circuit or clock running, you aren't saving any power. Think it through. Assuming there's a manual switch in the device (like your toaster) which closes the circuit, why would it use any more "phantom power" when that circuit is open then the outlet itself? It's the same thing. You're just moving where the endpoint of that power line is.
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#33 Feb 24 2012 at 9:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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By auto-detection you mean for instant-on access? I remember some study from a couple of years ago that said (for example) video game consoles use quite a bit of power even when off because of that.

Phone chargers and such use a bit, as well. Basically if it's warm to the touch when it's off, it's using wattage.

Obviously I'm not unplugging my refrigerator.
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#34 Feb 24 2012 at 9:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Samira wrote:


Obviously I'm not unplugging my refrigerator.

Why do you hate the environment?
#35 Feb 24 2012 at 9:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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I have to cool down my faster than light nutrias somehow, you know.

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#36 Feb 25 2012 at 12:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Samira wrote:
I have to cool down my faster than light nutrias somehow, you know.



Want to borrow a negative Kelvin freezer?
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#37 Feb 25 2012 at 1:36 PM Rating: Default
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The Kelvin Scale stops at 0K, absolute 0.
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#38 Feb 25 2012 at 1:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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The Kelvin Scale stops at 0K, absolute 0.



Smiley: facepalm
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#39 Feb 25 2012 at 1:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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The Kelvin Scale stops at 0K, absolute 0.
Screenshot
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#40 Feb 25 2012 at 2:14 PM Rating: Default
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oh i get it now... face desk and all that.
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#41 Feb 25 2012 at 3:42 PM Rating: Good
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#42 Feb 25 2012 at 4:21 PM Rating: Good
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No McBain "Dat's da joke" picture?



Screenshot



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#43 Feb 25 2012 at 4:23 PM Rating: Good
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Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
No McBain "Dat's da joke" picture?



Screenshot



Am I doing it right?

Better! Smiley: thumbsup
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#44 Feb 27 2012 at 5:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Samira wrote:
By auto-detection you mean for instant-on access? I remember some study from a couple of years ago that said (for example) video game consoles use quite a bit of power even when off because of that.


Not exactly. I mean anything where there's a circuit running that detects some action that is electronic rather than physical in nature. So if you can turn your TV on with your remote, something has to be actively operating to do that. I'm not sure about video game consoles, but it's certainly possible that some of them might be running stuff in the background even while turned off.

Quote:
Phone chargers and such use a bit, as well. Basically if it's warm to the touch when it's off, it's using wattage.


Yup. And that's honestly because of simplicity of design. It's cheaper for them to have an active inductive charging coil running which then starts a flow of power when a sink comes in close proximity (or contact) with the circuit than to construct some sort of simple physical switch that's activated when you plug in your phone. It's funny because this subject came up in a conversation at work just a week or two ago, which sparked a huge amount of diagram drawing on nearby whiteboards and arguments about the how's and whys of different charging designs. Then it spun into relative costs of wireless versus direct wire charging systems, and basically went into the weeds.

Short of it is that it's possible to design a direct wire charger that consumes no additional energy except when your device is plugged in, but no one does. And while one might think it's some plot to help pad profits for the power companies, the reality is that the cost in energy is still very very very small, and the cost to design chargers with a manual (but automated when plugged in) switch and the increased likelihood of failure (and returns) because of said mechanical system, simply doesn't justify it.

There's nothing preventing you from unplugging those sorts of devices, or installing manual switches to cut power from them if you want. The more direct point though if your toaster is the standard manually operated toaster, it's not drawing any extra power by being plugged in all the time. Same with your blender, your food processor, and whatever else. *Not* the same with your microwave, or your coffee machine with the timer function (and clock). Also not the same for your TV, your cable box, your wireless router, and a dozen other things you have on pretty much all the time in your house.

Quote:
Obviously I'm not unplugging my refrigerator.


Yup. And your fridge probably consumes more power in an average hour than every one of those smaller "standing by" devices in your house does in a month.
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#45 Feb 27 2012 at 5:31 PM Rating: Good
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Interesting.
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#46 Feb 27 2012 at 10:46 PM Rating: Default
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Not exactly. I mean anything where there's a circuit running that detects some action that is electronic rather than physical in nature. So if you can turn your TV on with your remote, something has to be actively operating to do that. I'm not sure about video game consoles, but it's certainly possible that some of them might be running stuff in the background even while turned off.


While this is true it kind of isn't. The digital circuits of power units are generally always open (off) if they have a remote control present as the logic will tell the unit to turn on when the signal changes to a closed position (on).

Most of these circuits are powered by capacitors which charge while the unit is on (consuming elecricity) and are dormant while the unit is off. When you close the circuit (push power on the unit or remote) the capacitors will discharge and start the power circuit which in turn activates the unit and recharges the capacitors.


So while yes a TV or Game console does consume power to turn itself on remotely, it only consumes a small amount of power, while the unit is running. While off or in stand by (newer units) it consumes no power.

This is why old tube machinces used to take a while to power up, the charge was only used to turn the component on, not power its process.
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#47 Feb 28 2012 at 4:07 PM Rating: Good
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Not exactly. I mean anything where there's a circuit running that detects some action that is electronic rather than physical in nature. So if you can turn your TV on with your remote, something has to be actively operating to do that. I'm not sure about video game consoles, but it's certainly possible that some of them might be running stuff in the background even while turned off.


While this is true it kind of isn't. The digital circuits of power units are generally always open (off) if they have a remote control present as the logic will tell the unit to turn on when the signal changes to a closed position (on).

Most of these circuits are powered by capacitors which charge while the unit is on (consuming elecricity) and are dormant while the unit is off. When you close the circuit (push power on the unit or remote) the capacitors will discharge and start the power circuit which in turn activates the unit and recharges the capacitors.


I'm not talking about the capacitors used to keep the unit "warm" so as to decrease power up time. I'm talking about the fact that in order for a remote control to turn on your TV, the sensor that detects the infrared beam must be part of a closed circuit, and is thus drawing a small amount of power all the time. The infrared beam doesn't close the circuit, it interacts with an already closed circuit to close another circuit which turns on the system. It's the same difference as having your laptop in standby, versus having it off. One wears down the battery still, the other does not (well, much more slowly).


Quote:
So while yes a TV or Game console does consume power to turn itself on remotely, it only consumes a small amount of power, while the unit is running. While off or in stand by (newer units) it consumes no power.


Half right. Any electronic device that has any closed circuit attached to a power source will consume some power. How much depends on a number of factors, but it *will* draw some power. The only way for it not to is for the switch to the power to be open (ie: a manual switch that is turned to the off position). If you've taken a basic electronic class, you should know this. Even if all you have is a circuit with a resistor in it, you're going to bleed some power.

Edited, Feb 28th 2012 2:09pm by gbaji
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