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There is at least some truth in thisFollow

#1 Feb 01 2012 at 11:29 PM Rating: Good
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLv8c2nlF0E

Imagine that, like picture it, if Chinese soldiers were in your backyard calling you a "terrorist" or "insurgent" would you wear that name in pride or in shame?

I don't know about you, but I'd wear that badge with pride. ****, I'd announce on the top of my lungs that I was an insurgent and a terrorist.

I know because of American ignorance that such a situation couldn't happen, but what if it did? That's what I ask you ye reader. What would you do?

I think this video really quite deftly, quite succinctly, and adequately put our foreign policy in its place. Our foreign police does not promote peace; it promotes war. America is sadly Imperialistic and Warmongering, the conclusion is inescapable. We can change, and no I'm not talking about Big Ears version of "hope and change" I'm talking about actual change.

We need to stop sending our youth, our future of hopes and dreams, into the endless bloodshed of interventionism. We can no longer afford to send our youth into endless conflict, we can no longer afford our shortsightedness. We need to be conservative, we need to defend our shores, we are no longer the worlds sole superpower. We must act defensively or be caught with our pants down to an offensive enemy.

In the end our interventionism will fuck us in the ***.


-NW
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#2 Feb 01 2012 at 11:58 PM Rating: Good
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All I could think through the whole thing was "Where have I seen this 'fly-in, rotating text' technique before?"

I feel like it was some scholarly dude talking about writing or something like that, and that someone here linked to it...
#3 Feb 02 2012 at 12:03 AM Rating: Good
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Ok, that's done in a very propagandist way, with lots of effective tugs on emotion. But I agree with what it says anyway.

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#4 Feb 02 2012 at 12:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Aripyanfar wrote:
Ok, that's done in a very propagandist way, with lots of effective tugs on emotion. But I agree with what it says anyway.




Rhetoric shouldn't automatically be assumed as irrelevant. In some cases, such as that I presented, emotional rhetoric can and should prove a point.

Don't feel bad Ari; you are looking at things objectively, which is human nature.

-NW
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#5 Feb 02 2012 at 1:40 AM Rating: Good
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Actually I believe it's hard for humans to look at things objectively. But I do believe in good rhetoric being very necessary to spread good and correct
ideas.
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#6 Feb 02 2012 at 2:39 PM Rating: Good
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You know who also liked the U.S. taking on an isolationist stance?
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#7 Feb 02 2012 at 2:41 PM Rating: Good
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Kakar wrote:
You know who also liked the U.S. taking on an isolationist stance?
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#8 Feb 02 2012 at 2:53 PM Rating: Good
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There's this logical fallacy that floats around pure isolationists that somehow, throwing water on a house will cause it to catch fire. The cause of terrorism is not fighting terrorism. It's not possible. Don't get me wrong, most of the arguments for interventionism are equally as fallacious, but the core point is this: We have a big group of individuals in this world (big enough to cause problems)which hate and wish to dismantle the very foundation of western society, and I don't think they deserve an inch of wiggle room. The best way to go about this in my mind, though, is to support the revolutions occurring internally and don't force it on anyone. I'm even open to an extent to the idea of regime change strategies in the event of international law being violated. The biggest problem the United States had with its intervening past is that it always defined stable as a trade partner that wouldn't allow uprisings, rather than a free society that benefits all.
#9 Feb 02 2012 at 3:10 PM Rating: Good
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I'm oddly ok with China taking over Texas.

Seriously, that's one piece of propaganda. It shows one side, perhaps not the side we usually see, of a multi-faceted issue.

I'm typically the pie-eyed fool to first suggest a peaceful solution, but even I'm not naive enough to think that the world would automatically be a better place if the US simply sold off it's military or forbid it from leaving the back yard.

One family may indeed be fearful and hateful and angry that there are foreign soldiers in their back-yard. Another family might be thankful that a hostile regime is no longer in power, or simply that some US soldiers have provided some degree of safety to their community and their day-to-day lives.

Is there ever a justification to use military force on foreign soil?

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#10 Feb 02 2012 at 3:16 PM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
I'm oddly ok with China taking over Texas.

Seriously, that's one piece of propaganda. It shows one side, perhaps not the side we usually see, of a multi-faceted issue.

I'm typically the pie-eyed fool to first suggest a peaceful solution, but even I'm not naive enough to think that the world would automatically be a better place if the US simply sold off it's military or forbid it from leaving the back yard.

One family may indeed be fearful and hateful and angry that there are foreign soldiers in their back-yard. Another family might be thankful that a hostile regime is no longer in power, or simply that some US soldiers have provided some degree of safety to their community and their day-to-day lives.

Is there ever a justification to use military force on foreign soil?

Yes, I'd say. In cases of genocide or other mass human rights violations, to shift the balance away from incumbent despots under very specific qualifications, and to (obviously) counteract direct threats.
#11 Feb 02 2012 at 3:19 PM Rating: Good
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LeWoVoc wrote:
Elinda wrote:
I'm oddly ok with China taking over Texas.

Seriously, that's one piece of propaganda. It shows one side, perhaps not the side we usually see, of a multi-faceted issue.

I'm typically the pie-eyed fool to first suggest a peaceful solution, but even I'm not naive enough to think that the world would automatically be a better place if the US simply sold off it's military or forbid it from leaving the back yard.

One family may indeed be fearful and hateful and angry that there are foreign soldiers in their back-yard. Another family might be thankful that a hostile regime is no longer in power, or simply that some US soldiers have provided some degree of safety to their community and their day-to-day lives.

Is there ever a justification to use military force on foreign soil?

Yes, I'd say. In cases of genocide or other mass human rights violations, to shift the balance away from incumbent despots under very specific qualifications, and to (obviously) counteract direct threats.
Once you agree that there are situations that justify military intervention you've tacitly agreed to allow force to solve problems.


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#12 Feb 02 2012 at 3:23 PM Rating: Good
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Wrong question. Imagine that the US government didn't have a constitution which protected its citizens. Imagine that it routinely used secret police to round citizens up and torture and then disappear them. Imagine that it used constant fear of what it could do to its citizens to keep everyone in line and doing whatever it wanted. Then imagine that in this alternate universe the Chinese had a century long history of intervening in situations like this, helping create or restore governments where liberty and rule of law reign rather than rule by fear. Imagine that they found some excuse to invade the US, remove its government from power and were then working to create a better one where we wouldn't be subject to constant fear and pain.

Imagine that what is holding up that process is a relatively small minority of people who decide to attack and bomb the Chinese soldiers. Imagine that their reasons for doing this range from a desire to return the old regime to power, or to create a new regime where they're the power, to just irrational hatred of the Chinese themselves. I imagine that I would also view them as terrorists and/or insurgents, and I'd want them to stop so that the same pattern of rebuilding our country and then leaving it in charge of itself that had happened many times before could occur.



And yeah. I imagine that I'd blame those idiots for the violence occurring all around me. Sure. I'd be upset when some Chinese soldiers overreact to an attack on them and innocents get killed. But I'd still place the lions share of the blame on the idiots who are trying to fight them and prevent them from doing something that is ultimately better for me.


And I imagine that if there were people in China who took the side of those insurgents keeping the bloodshed going and were demanding that their government stop what it's doing and leave us at the mercy of our old leaders (or new ones who are just as bad), I'd think those people were freaking morons. I'd look at how much freedom and liberty they have. I'd look at their constitution and their rules and how prosperous and successful they are. And I'd wonder how such a free and prosperous and wonderful nation could produce people with their heads so firmly wedged in their own nether regions that they can't see that the rest of the world doesn't have the same freedoms they do but would really like to. If only someone cared enough to help us.
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#13 Feb 02 2012 at 3:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Imagine if the Koreans took over and you had to fight your way through a blown out White Castle to access a big tank-drone-robot thingie.

How would THAT make you feel, huh?
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#14 Feb 02 2012 at 3:47 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Imagine if the Koreans took over and you had to fight your way through a blown out White Castle to access a big tank-drone-robot thingie.

How would THAT make you feel, huh?


I'd be *******

White Castles are hard enough to find without the **** Koreans blowing them up.
#15 Feb 02 2012 at 3:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Imagine if the Koreans took over and you had to fight your way through a blown out White Castle to access a big tank-drone-robot thingie.

How would THAT make you feel, huh?


They'd be all like "Ramirez! Defend the Burger Town!" and I'd be all "My name's not Ramirez!"
#16 Feb 02 2012 at 4:08 PM Rating: Good
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Eske Esquire wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Imagine if the Koreans took over and you had to fight your way through a blown out White Castle to access a big tank-drone-robot thingie.

How would THAT make you feel, huh?


They'd be all like "Ramirez! Defend the Burger Town!" and I'd be all "My name's not Ramirez!"


That burgertown had the weirdest layout...
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#17 Feb 02 2012 at 4:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
Once you agree that there are situations that justify military intervention you've tacitly agreed to allow force to solve problems.
Welcome to the entirety of human history, past present and future.
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#18 Feb 02 2012 at 4:45 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Once you agree that there are situations that justify military intervention you've tacitly agreed to allow force to solve problems.
Welcome to the entirety of human history, past present and future.

This. I'm not sure if my memory is 100% on this, but in the entirety of human history, about 230 years total were spent war-free.


So I ask you this: How do you talk someone out of genocide? How many economic sanctions does it take to prevent a madman from invading a neighboring country? The thought of absolutely every world problem being solved with talks and treaties is ridiculous. Once you agree that force is never a justifiable option, you tacitly agree to never have the worst of human problems solved.

Edited, Feb 2nd 2012 3:47pm by LeWoVoc
#19 Feb 02 2012 at 5:48 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah. I always thought the saying that "violence never solved anything" was up there with the most moronic of things that could come out of someone's mouth.
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#20 Feb 02 2012 at 6:30 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Imagine if the Koreans took over and you had to fight your way through a blown out White Castle to access a big tank-drone-robot thingie.

How would THAT make you feel, huh?


They'd be all like "Ramirez! Defend the Burger Town!" and I'd be all "My name's not Ramirez!"


That burgertown had the weirdest layout...


iknowright

They had oddly large parking lots too. I've never seen a fast food joint with that much available parking space.
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#21 Feb 02 2012 at 7:47 PM Rating: Good
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LeWoVoc wrote:
There's this logical fallacy that floats around pure isolationists that somehow, throwing water on a house will cause it to catch fire.

You know what the best part of this analogy is, you change aggressive force from being water to fire in the same sentence.
#22 Feb 02 2012 at 7:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Allegory wrote:
LeWoVoc wrote:
There's this logical fallacy that floats around pure isolationists that somehow, throwing water on a house will cause it to catch fire.

You know what the best part of this analogy is, you change aggressive force from being water to fire in the same sentence.


Well, he was pretty steamed.
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#23 Feb 02 2012 at 8:09 PM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
Allegory wrote:
LeWoVoc wrote:
There's this logical fallacy that floats around pure isolationists that somehow, throwing water on a house will cause it to catch fire.

You know what the best part of this analogy is, you change aggressive force from being water to fire in the same sentence.


Well, he was pretty steamed.

I sea the error of my waves. I'll bay shore to be careful next time.

Edited, Feb 2nd 2012 7:10pm by LeWoVoc
#24 Feb 02 2012 at 8:10 PM Rating: Good
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Well, I wasn't going to coddle him.
#25 Feb 02 2012 at 8:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Just try not to poach is metaphor.

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#26 Feb 02 2012 at 9:07 PM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
Just try not to poach is metaphor.

I'm not trying to scramble on for too long, but this post was eggselent.
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