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Obama classifies Fort Hood massacre as workplace violenceFollow

#1 Dec 07 2011 at 4:32 PM Rating: Sub-Default
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And you liberals have the nerve to say Obama isn't doing everything in his power to protect radical muslims bent on undermining the US military and US in general.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/12/06/military-growing-terrorist-target-lawmakers-warn/

This is a direct slap in the face to every US serviceman.

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Thirteen people were killed and dozens more wounded at Fort Hood in 2009, and the number of alleged plots targeting the military has grown significantly since then. Lawmakers said there have been 33 plots against the U.S. military since Sept. 11, 2001, and 70 percent of those threats have been since mid-2009. Major Nidal Hasan, a former Army psychiatrist, who is being held for the attacks, allegedly was inspired by radical U.S.-born cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, who was killed in a U.S. drone strike in Yemen in late September. The two men exchanged as many as 20 emails, according to U.S. officials, and Awlaki declared Hasan a hero.


I guess 911 was just a massive work place dispute between muslims and wall street.
#2 Dec 07 2011 at 4:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
I guess 911 was just an early Occupy protest for muslims against wall street.

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#3 Dec 07 2011 at 4:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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I guess 911 was just a massive work place dispute between muslims and wall street.


No, that was an act of international terrorism aimed at ******* off America so that it would get bogged down in Afghanistan.

The Ft. Hood thing was domestic terrorism, planned and committed by one, disgruntled, man, with no outside help. I dislike that it's being called "workplace violence" if it is in fact being called that, but you're being angry for the wrong reasons.

In the real world, Varus, there are shades of grey. I don't see how you manage to see everything as being "black or white".
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#4 Dec 07 2011 at 4:46 PM Rating: Good
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Leave it to varus and his liberal media cohorts at Fox News to conveniently leave out certain details. Like the part that the person in charge of the report he's so "angry" about was Robert M. Gates.
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#5 Dec 07 2011 at 8:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Driftwood wrote:
The Ft. Hood thing was domestic terrorism, planned and committed by one, disgruntled, man, with no outside help.


No outside help, but he certainly got encouragement and inspiration from associations with several known terrorists. He attended the same mosque as a couple of the 9/11 attackers. He had numerous email exchanges with Al-Awlaki, who had also been the imam of that same mosque, and at the time of the emails had left the US to lead the al-queda organization in Yemen.

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I dislike that it's being called "workplace violence" if it is in fact being called that, but you're being angry for the wrong reasons.


At the very least, it's a pretty wild dismissal of the significance of the at by the Obama administration. Be honest though, if Tim McVeigh had been a member of an Irish Catholic church, from which two other members had engaged in IRA bombings in the US, and whose pastor had since moved back to Ireland to lead an IRS terrorist cell, and McVeigh had had similar contact with said former pastor (while he was leading an IRA cell), would anyone have hesitated to connect the OK bombing to broader international IRA terrorism?

Why in this case do some people insist on doing so in this case? It's already a downplay even to just call it isolated individual domestic terrorism, but to call it "workplace violence"? That's just absurd.

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In the real world, Varus, there are shades of grey. I don't see how you manage to see everything as being "black or white".


/shrug. Sometimes things are exactly what they look like though. And this absolutely looks like someone deciding to take part in a larger international terrorism effort. I think the same argument can be made when people work so hard to find the grey in every situation. This really isn't one of those IMO.
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#6 Dec 07 2011 at 8:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Having not seen said letter or report, forgive me for not getting worked up.
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#7 Dec 07 2011 at 8:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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The hoopla is about a document that was released in 2010, "Department of Defense - Protecting the Force; Lessons from Fort Hood," and the specific passage is
DoD - PtF; LFH wrote:
Findings 2.6 -
The Services have programs and policies to address prevention and intervention of suicide, sexual assault, and family violence but guidance concerning workplace violence and the potential for self-radicalization is insufficient.

[...]

While the Fort Hood AAR does not address the actions of the victims and other bystanders during the during the assault this is an area that requires examination. Typically, individuals involved in these situations have never considered how to react under these circumstances, including how to react when law enforcement officers arrive on the scene. There are a variety of training tools available to address employee responses during workplace violence situations. The Department of Homeland Security publishes a pamphlet which provides basic training and awareness of appropriate actions people can and should take during this type of threat. The Department of Defense has no equivalent training tool. It could, however, be incorporated into an existing personal security training program such as that found in Level 1 Antiterrorism Awareness annual training requirement.
In other words, much like everything else he posts, it doesn't say what he (as well as Sen. Susan Collins, and Fox News, surprise surprise) thinks it says. At no point does it call the incident at Fort Hood "workplace violence," but that the complete disaster and breakdown of security dealing with it could have been handled similarly to various organizations when handling workplace violence.

Edited, Dec 7th 2011 9:51pm by lolgaxe
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#8 Dec 07 2011 at 8:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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#9 Dec 07 2011 at 9:59 PM Rating: Default
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A man shoots up an army base shouting "Allahu Akbar" and it's just some guy loosing his ****..and everyone gets upset when anyone DAREs call it a religious action.
Some lunatic in Norway slaughters people and he is instantly labeled a "Christian Terrorist" and no one seems to care.

THERE is your black and white.

-just saying
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#10 Dec 07 2011 at 10:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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No outside help, but he certainly got encouragement and inspiration from associations with several known terrorists. He attended the same mosque as a couple of the 9/11 attackers.


You don't say!

</sarcasm>

Of course he got encouragement and inspiration, but he did not get material or advisory aid, and that's the main point that separates it from being the same sort of situation as the 9/11 attacks. He did it on his own, without any actual aid from extremist organisations.

Quote:
He had numerous email exchanges with Al-Awlaki, who had also been the imam of that same mosque, and at the time of the emails had left the US to lead the al-queda organization in Yemen.


Irrelevant, see above.

Quote:
At the very least, it's a pretty wild dismissal of the significance of the at by the Obama administration. Be honest though, if Tim McVeigh had been a member of an Irish Catholic church, from which two other members had engaged in IRA bombings in the US, and whose pastor had since moved back to Ireland to lead an IRS terrorist cell, and McVeigh had had similar contact with said former pastor (while he was leading an IRA cell), would anyone have hesitated to connect the OK bombing to broader international IRA terrorism?


I can see your point, but even in the hypothetical situation you lay out, there is no direct help being given to Tim McVeigh, and as such, it's fairly presumptuous to put blame on the IRA. The argument is really between logic and "public opinion"/media spin(from both sides of that proverbial, and absolutely idiotic fence). Somehow the latter always wins out.

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Why in this case do some people insist on doing so in this case? It's already a downplay even to just call it isolated individual domestic terrorism, but to call it "workplace violence"? That's just absurd.


I agree that it is absurd to call it "workplace violence". It's ridiculous, and is yet another reason added to the many that explain why I'm not an Obama supporter(Buddy Roemer 2012!). It is individual domestic terrorism, isolated is a stretch as we have seen similarily motivated domestic terrorism in the years since 9/11(both thwarted and semi-successful incidents).

Quote:
Sometimes things are exactly what they look like though. And this absolutely looks like someone deciding to take part in a larger international terrorism effort. I think the same argument can be made when people work so hard to find the grey in every situation. This really isn't one of those IMO.


That was more of a blanket statement towards Varus'(and Theifx's for that matter) approach to all issues than just this on alone. Some things are just one thing or the other, but most aren't.
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Eske wrote:
I've always read Driftwood as the straight man in varus' double act. It helps if you read all of his posts in the voice of Droopy Dog.
#11 Dec 08 2011 at 7:22 AM Rating: Excellent
What I'm wondering is why Susan Collins is sticking her fat nose into all sorts of shit lately? I've heard or read like four or five sound bites from her in the past week or so.
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#12 Dec 08 2011 at 8:07 AM Rating: Good
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Obama classifies Fort Hood massacre as workplace violence
It was at the workplace, and it was violent.
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#13 Dec 08 2011 at 8:09 AM Rating: Good
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Duke Lubriderm wrote:
What I'm wondering is why Susan Collins is sticking her fat nose into all sorts of shit lately? I've heard or read like four or five sound bites from her in the past week or so.

...and she's got the most annoying nasally voice. bluh.
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#14 Dec 08 2011 at 8:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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Duke Lubriderm wrote:
What I'm wondering is why Susan Collins is sticking her fat nose into all sorts of shit lately?
Election year coming up.
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#15 Dec 08 2011 at 8:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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She's going into a primary against a Tea Party opponent. Gotta build that conservative cred.
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#16varusword75, Posted: Dec 08 2011 at 8:44 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Drift,
#17 Dec 08 2011 at 8:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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#18 Dec 08 2011 at 12:06 PM Rating: Good
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shroomy wrote:
He did it on his own, without any actual aid from extremist organisations.


So what you're saying is as long as there were no marks; it's not rape.
AMIRITE?Smiley: dubious

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#19 Dec 08 2011 at 5:24 PM Rating: Good
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Driftwood wrote:
I can see your point, but even in the hypothetical situation you lay out, there is no direct help being given to Tim McVeigh, and as such, it's fairly presumptuous to put blame on the IRA. The argument is really between logic and "public opinion"/media spin(from both sides of that proverbial, and absolutely idiotic fence). Somehow the latter always wins out.


I guess that depends on your objective though. I don't think this is about "blaming" the international organization. It's about identifying the motivation for the attack and therefore how we should approach minimizing such things in the future. Domestic terrorism suggests someone who is upset about his own government (or whatever he's attacking) and attacks it directly. So some guy doesn't like the BATF and thinks the black helicopters are out to get him, so he starts sending mail bombs to people and writing manifestos. That's domestic terrorism.

I think it's important and valuable to differentiate that from terrorism which has its roots in a larger international agenda. If you are blowing things up because you support some organization in another country (perhaps one which your own government opposes), even though you may not have received an ounce of help or even ever communicated with that organization, your action is clearly driven by the goals of said organization itself. It's important to identify these sorts of attacks because it allows us to correctly measure the degree to which those foreign organizations are gaining support/help here at home. It also factors into how we deal with said organization and its goals over time.


I just think that changing the terminology for what appears to be a primarily political correctness objective is dishonest at best and dangerous at worse. We need to be honest about sympathizers here in the US. We need to be honest that these people do sometimes take violent actions on behalf of those foreign organizations and their agendas. I don't see how deliberately mislabeling such things in an apparent attempt to downplay the issue helps us at all. I'd much rather we have an honest discussion about the issue. Don't you agree?
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#20 Dec 08 2011 at 5:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Odd I thought military personnel on base were working. Crazy to call a mass murder at a workplace workplace violence I know, but still what is it called when working at a base.

Edited, Dec 8th 2011 6:33pm by rdmcandie
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