Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2 3
Reply To Thread

Teaching: your opinions (poll)Follow

#1 Sep 21 2011 at 2:32 PM Rating: Excellent
Annoying Ass
ZAM Administrator
Avatar
*****
12,049 posts
Saw a facebook debate the other day on this issue and it got me to wondering how people think about teachers. I'm talking about primary/secondary, not college level.

Which best describes your thoughts on the teaching profession
Teachers educate, and education improves the future. Teachers are fantastic! However they work long hours and get burnt out quickly; it's a tough job, but an honorable one.:25 (51.0%)
Teachers are necessary, but they complain too much. Their salaries aren't bad, they get great benefits, and they get the summers off. Due to unionization it's often difficult to fire them, and can have too much influence on a child's outlook by injecting their own views.:9 (18.4%)
They're basically glorified babysitters. Public schools are a blight and we should go back to a private school system where competition will allow only the best teachers to retain a job... the best students to learn at the schools. Also, I studied to be a history teacher and failed at it.:1 (2.0%)
I've got my own thoughts that don't really align primarily with one side or the other. And I'm not Varus.:14 (28.6%)
Total:49


Edited, Sep 21st 2011 4:33pm by LockeColeMA
____________________________
Retired News Writer for the ZAM Network
WoW - Aureliano the Insane - level 90 Druid on Sen'Jin
Nanaoki - level 90 Mage on Sen'Jin
#2 Sep 21 2011 at 2:36 PM Rating: Good
******
49,668 posts
Don't think they should be nearly as protected as they are, but I feel the same way about my job.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#3 Sep 21 2011 at 2:44 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
I went #1 but I could caveat it all day long. There's shitty members of every profession: teachers, soldiers, firefighters, doctors, judges, whatever. Broadly though, I agree that it's a necessary and difficult profession that involves a lot of personal sacrifice to achieve a difficult goal. There's no question that most teachers burn out quickly; the attrition rate is approximately 50% after five years.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#4 Sep 21 2011 at 2:46 PM Rating: Good
****
6,471 posts
I'm no fan of tenure, and I've yet to hear an argument for it that wasn't flawed. Getting summer off seems like a sweet deal.

That being said, I'm not raging about them. Yeah, tenure is an issue, and it should be addressed, but meh. I'd have selected the second option, 'cept for the bits about them complaining too much (in my experience, they only complain as a counter to people saying that their job is easy/insignificant) and them influencing childrens' outlooks with their own views (which, if it's even a problem, is marginal and solvable locally).

Edited, Sep 21st 2011 4:47pm by Eske
#5 Sep 21 2011 at 2:56 PM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
*****
13,369 posts
I think they often get too much of the credit/blame for how their students turn out.
____________________________
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
#6 Sep 21 2011 at 3:02 PM Rating: Decent
Encyclopedia
******
34,867 posts
The problem is that #1 and #2 are not really exclusive. I think teachers are great. I think that the public school system most of them have to work in is awful. Same with the unions that come as part of that package. And I think that most of the negatives people do cast at teachers are really things that are related to that public school system and those unions and not really the teachers themselves.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#7 Sep 21 2011 at 3:15 PM Rating: Good
Soulless Internet Tiger
******
35,366 posts
I think your options suck so I took option 4, although in reality, I likely fall somewhere between 1 and 2.
____________________________
Donate. One day it could be your family.


An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo

#8 Sep 21 2011 at 3:16 PM Rating: Good
Official Shrubbery Waterer
*****
14,566 posts
Uglysasquatch, Mercenary Major wrote:
I think your options suck so I took option 4, although in reality, I likely fall somewhere between 1 and 2.
____________________________
Jophiel wrote:
I managed to be both retarded and entertaining.

#9 Sep 21 2011 at 3:34 PM Rating: Good
Needs More Smut
******
21,262 posts
I picked 1, but I'm very biased.

I would like to clarify that summers off doesn't apply when most teachers have to attend staff development, continuing education classes (to maintain their certifications, they have to take classes every three years or so), or teach summer school to supplement their income. Students get the summers off. Teachers are doing some form of work most of the time in summer.
____________________________
FFXI: Catwho on Bismarck: Retired December 2014
Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest and Taprara Rara on Lamia Server - Member of The Swarm
Curator of the XIV Wallpapers Tumblr and the XIV Fashion Tumblr
#10 Sep 21 2011 at 3:44 PM Rating: Good
Soulless Internet Tiger
******
35,366 posts
catwho wrote:
Teachers are doing some form of work most of the time in summer.
The ones I know don't.
____________________________
Donate. One day it could be your family.


An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo

#11 Sep 21 2011 at 4:13 PM Rating: Good
****
9,526 posts
Demea wrote:
Uglysasquatch, Mercenary Major wrote:
I think your options suck don't match up to my own so I took option 4, although in reality, I likely fall somewhere between 1 and 2.


I mostly lean towards (1) although there is a small tiny percentage of teachers that are terrible and are difficult to get rid of, which I think is detrimental to kids and public education.

I don't generally find they complain very much, and I don't think they really get paid fair market value for their work (even getting summers off). I dunno, being a teacher seems a lot more important than being a common labourer (and the latter doesn't have to spend their own money to get the training for the job) yet they can easily make the same amount.

____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#12 Sep 21 2011 at 4:33 PM Rating: Decent
Encyclopedia
******
34,867 posts
Uglysasquatch, Mercenary Major wrote:
catwho wrote:
Teachers are doing some form of work most of the time in summer.
The ones I know don't.


The do attend a few staff development days and may have to spend some time prepping their classroom. But it's not more than a handful out of the whole summer. If they are actually working during the summer (like teaching a summer school course), they get paid more, which breaks the whole argument.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#13 Sep 21 2011 at 4:35 PM Rating: Decent
Encyclopedia
******
34,867 posts
Olorinus wrote:
I don't generally find they complain very much, and I don't think they really get paid fair market value for their work (even getting summers off). I dunno, being a teacher seems a lot more important than being a common labourer (and the latter doesn't have to spend their own money to get the training for the job) yet they can easily make the same amount.


Unless median salaries for common laborers is between $40-45k/year then your statement is false. Certainly, common laborers don't "easily" make the same amount as certified teachers. There are some legitimate arguments to make about teacher salaries, but it's exactly this sort of gross misinformation about the salaries themselves which make the topic difficult to discuss.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#14 Sep 21 2011 at 5:05 PM Rating: Decent
Keeper of the Shroud
*****
13,544 posts
Voted number two, but my opinion is more realistically represented by a mixture of both one and two, with two slightly edging out one.

Edited, Sep 21st 2011 7:06pm by Turin
#15 Sep 21 2011 at 5:10 PM Rating: Good
****
9,526 posts
gbaji wrote:
Olorinus wrote:
I don't generally find they complain very much, and I don't think they really get paid fair market value for their work (even getting summers off). I dunno, being a teacher seems a lot more important than being a common labourer (and the latter doesn't have to spend their own money to get the training for the job) yet they can easily make the same amount.


Unless median salaries for common laborers is between $40-45k/year then your statement is false. Certainly, common laborers don't "easily" make the same amount as certified teachers. There are some legitimate arguments to make about teacher salaries, but it's exactly this sort of gross misinformation about the salaries themselves which make the topic difficult to discuss.



I know plenty of people who have made easily 40-45K a year doing common labour(hauling rebar, roofing, sweeping mills) so yeah...Many of them make more. Go to the oil patch and people doing grunt work are easily pulling in 80-150 K a year or more.

It is a little worse now that the economy has cooled but, yeah, resource industries pay tons to people without them having to shell out for their own education.

These don't have salaries on them - but note how NO formal education outside of a high school diploma is necessary. I am not going to do the work to check for you, but if these jobs AREN'T pulling in 80K+ a year I would be shocked.

http://aquifer.nabors.com/career/jobdetail.asp?id=303
http://aquifer.nabors.com/career/jobdetail.asp?id=273


Edited, Sep 21st 2011 4:14pm by Olorinus
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#16 Sep 21 2011 at 5:34 PM Rating: Decent
Encyclopedia
******
34,867 posts
Go look up the definition of "median". Then get back to me.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#17 Sep 21 2011 at 5:49 PM Rating: Good
Soulless Internet Tiger
******
35,366 posts
Olorinus wrote:
Go to the oil patch and people doing grunt work are easily pulling in 80-150 K a year or more.
What do teachers up in those areas make?
____________________________
Donate. One day it could be your family.


An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo

#18 Sep 21 2011 at 7:04 PM Rating: Good
Repressed Memories
******
20,908 posts
There's a fair mix of all three, and not just in one teacher being a good example and another being a bad example.

Education is supremely important, and in the long term the most efficient way to create lasting benefits. Many teachers do work hard and it can be a very tough job. However there are some problems with teachers unions that need to be fixed, and especially in private schools injecting personal viewpoints is quite easily achieved and can be severely damaging. And to an extent they are glorified babysitters, because the school system is fairly broken, to the extent that much of what children gain is a byproduct of merely being in the presence of a book with ideas they couldn't figure out on their own in a timely manner rather than any sort of method or effort on our part to impart knowledge to them.

So I went with the last one. Just because this thread seems to be heading into yet another boring political discussion, I'll throw in that I think there are many true conservative critics of schooling such as the power and detrimental effects of teachers unions, that could be improved. I don't however think that eliminating teacher unions or switching to entirely private schools would have a very significant effect for the amount of effort involved, and that largely it distracts us from more fundamental and serious problems. Namely, that we don't have a half intelligent metric outlined to even determine whether what we're doing is successful.
#19 Sep 21 2011 at 7:09 PM Rating: Excellent
******
49,668 posts
gbaji wrote:
it's exactly this sort of gross misinformation about the salaries themselves which make the topic difficult to discuss.
It's even worse when people bring jobs into discussions and have the salaries incorrect by a less than fair margin.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#20 Sep 22 2011 at 8:39 AM Rating: Good
Uglysasquatch, Mercenary Major wrote:
I think your options suck so I took option 4, although in reality, I likely fall somewhere between 1 and 2.
I mostly agreed with 1, but the hours aren't long, as far as I can tell. Schools around here are in session for 6 hours a day. Let's give them 2 hours on either end for prep and correcting homework and tests, and also remember that they have periods off, not including lunch time. Holidays off, with thanksgiving normally being 3 days off; Xmas vacation, February vacation, April vacation; ~2 months for summer. It's not a bad job in regards to time off.

Even if they averaged 9 or 10 hours a day when you add up all the prep or what not, all that time off really makes up for a lot.
____________________________
Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

Almalieque wrote:
I know what a glory hole is, but I wasn't sure what the business part was in reference to.

My Anime List
#21 Sep 22 2011 at 8:53 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
gbaji wrote:
it's exactly this sort of gross misinformation about the salaries themselves which make the topic difficult to discuss.

I heard that teachers make more than army generals and astronauts and the Pope!
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#22 Sep 22 2011 at 9:15 AM Rating: Good
Needs More Smut
******
21,262 posts
Teachers, especially those in high school, are expected to support some sort of after school activity as part of their employment. For example, my high school biology teacher was also the baseball coach. My high school band teacher had orchestra on Tuesday and Thursday evenings, and then jazz band on Fridays. My high school chemistry teacher ran the science club. The entire math staff participated in the math club, with one teacher coaching math olympiad and another one handling math bowl and yet another one handling the actual math club activities (we tutored the middle school that was attached to our high school as our service project.) Etc. Even management gets into this - my husband's brother in law is the high school principal... and the track coach.

So yes, it's not unheard of for a high school teacher to put in a 12 hour day during the week, on top of weekend activities.

And they usually don't get paid for those extra curricular activities - they're just expected to do it. (On the other hand, department heads are paid an extra $5,000-$10,000 and given a pass on heading the extracurricular stuff since they have double the paperwork to deal with.)
____________________________
FFXI: Catwho on Bismarck: Retired December 2014
Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest and Taprara Rara on Lamia Server - Member of The Swarm
Curator of the XIV Wallpapers Tumblr and the XIV Fashion Tumblr
#23 Sep 22 2011 at 9:40 AM Rating: Excellent
Gurue
*****
16,299 posts
Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
it's exactly this sort of gross misinformation about the salaries themselves which make the topic difficult to discuss.

I heard that teachers make more than army generals and astronauts and the Pope!

Combined, right?
#24 Sep 22 2011 at 9:54 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
That's what I've been told, yes. They make more than space traveling generals of divine holy armies.

Kindergarten teachers make more than the Archangel Michael! Who probably isn't paid at all, so I guess it's technically accurate.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#25 Sep 22 2011 at 9:55 AM Rating: Good
We Does Not Hugglez
*****
10,246 posts
catwho wrote:
And they usually don't get paid for those extra curricular activities - they're just expected to do it.

Highly district dependent, and I dare say not likely the norm.

As to the occasional 12 hour day, so f'ucking what? I put in 50-60 hours a week routinely, and occasionally get the 80 hour week dropped on me. I don't get 12 weeks of vacation every year. It's a seasonal job. They should quit their ******** or do something else.
____________________________
I had a very witty signature once, but apparently it offended the sensibilities of some of the frailer constitutions that frequent this particular internet message board.

[The rest of this message has been censored and I can't tell you what I actually think of you]
#26 Sep 22 2011 at 10:03 AM Rating: Excellent
Needs More Smut
******
21,262 posts
And how well paid are you for those 50-60 hours a week? I hope you're getting some form of overtime compensation.

I'm not against paying high salaries to work-a-holics. More power to you. But $40K/year for 50-60 hours a week is not a high salary.
____________________________
FFXI: Catwho on Bismarck: Retired December 2014
Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest and Taprara Rara on Lamia Server - Member of The Swarm
Curator of the XIV Wallpapers Tumblr and the XIV Fashion Tumblr
« Previous 1 2 3
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 94 All times are in CDT
Anonymous Guests (94)