Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Um... Joph? Agreement reached and meaningful implementation begun by 2013. Not just agreement reached by 2013.
So you're saying they WEREN'T threatening to downgrade in 2011 if a clean debt bill was passed?
They were threatening to downgrade if it became clear that congress could or would not reach a sufficient deficit reduction agreement prior to the 2012 election. Passing a debt ceiling increase with no deficit reduction attached would have been a strong signal that there was no agreement which could be reached. It's the difference between trying and failing and not trying at all Joph.
Your entire argument now rests on the idea that we should have not tried because then the credit agencies wouldn't have known we couldn't reach an agreement. Surely you can see how that's a short term "kick the can down the road" approach?
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The downgrade is because S&P does not believe that congress can come to an agreement on deficit reduction prior to the 2012 election.
Yes, exactly. Based on the GOP's refusal to allow for a comprehensive compromise.
It takes two sides to disagree Joph. And I'll point out again that the Dems didn't even want to do any deficit reduction at all. That was their staring position. So blaming the guys who at least attempted to get deficit reduction on the table seems more than a bit unfair.
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You know, like where they said that the Obama plan and the Ryan plan were starting places but they needed to come together with a compromise?
Or where they said that they don't care what combination of revenue increase or spending reduction the deficit reduction takes? Stop pretending that they're supporting some kind of "GOP has to allow tax increases" argument Joph. It's simply not true.
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Since I'm not wrong?
So you mean any moment now you're going to show where S&P threatened to downgrade on a clean debt ceiling bill like you claimed?
If agreeing to cut 2.5T dollars isn't sufficient agreement to meet the deficit reduction requirements to avoid downgrade, then what the hell do you think happens if we pass the same bill with zero deficit reduction? Use your brain for something other than a hat rack Joph. Think for yourself. Don't just parrot rhetoric.
