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Arizona birther bill passedFollow

#102varusword75, Posted: Apr 18 2011 at 10:41 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Atard,
#103 Apr 18 2011 at 10:42 AM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
varusword75 wrote:
Jophed,

Quote:
Again, he's better served by having the Birthers of the fringe Right wing embarrassing the party.


Well except they aren't the fringe. The people are seeing Obama as either intentionally divisive or a someone who's got something to hide.


Don't pretend that the majority of the people believe this garbage.


Nope, I just polled 10 people, apparently majority of the United States believes so.


Great, now I don't know which thread I'm in.
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#104 Apr 18 2011 at 10:46 AM Rating: Good
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varusword75 wrote:
Atard,

The only ones who don't believe it these days are the radical liberal left.


Looks like only 28% of republicans believe it, 30% of republicans don't know, 42% of republicans don't believe it. I'm not sure about democrats, but I would guess that close to 100% don't believe it.
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#105 Apr 18 2011 at 10:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
Well except they aren't the fringe.

Even better for Obama that you believe that :)
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#106 Apr 18 2011 at 11:22 AM Rating: Decent
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Samira wrote:
I assume so, although I confess I haven't been paying close attention.

My take on this is that it won't take four years for this to filter through the court system and be dismissed as unconstitutional. But we'll see; maybe it's written better than most reactive laws tend to be.


Maybe it isn't about Obama >:P maybe they just want to be sure that noone from new Jersey ever runs for President...

Really, all this does is make me wonder what kind of drugs Arizona's politicians are taking. I just don't get how a long or short form birth certificate will prove citizenship.

In my eyes, all this is doing is making the birthers look crazy like Palin and that alone would influence me to vote FOR Obama. (I voted for him last time and I still really like him.)
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#107 Apr 18 2011 at 11:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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The AZ law allows for alternate forms of proof if a "long form" birth certificate isn't available. It might violate the Full Faith & Credit Clause; I'm not worried about the law's impact on the 2012 elections so I haven't invested myself enough to look into it.
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#108 Apr 18 2011 at 11:48 AM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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Almalieque wrote:
Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
varusword75 wrote:
Jophed,

Quote:
Again, he's better served by having the Birthers of the fringe Right wing embarrassing the party.


Well except they aren't the fringe. The people are seeing Obama as either intentionally divisive or a someone who's got something to hide.


Don't pretend that the majority of the people believe this garbage.


Nope, I just polled 10 people, apparently majority of the United States believes so.
Not statistically significant. Jesus you really do suck at this.
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#109 Apr 18 2011 at 11:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
It's actually kind of ironic, all of this work is probably hurting The Governator from ever becoming president.


I wasn't aware that Arnold could become the president. (unless Trump is the governator and ive been telling the joke wrong all these years.) Since he is knowingly not an American born citizen.

Edited, Apr 18th 2011 1:56pm by rdmcandie
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#110 Apr 18 2011 at 11:57 AM Rating: Good
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I'm all for this bill if it keeps Arnold and anyone from New Jersey out of the Presidency.
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#111 Apr 18 2011 at 12:04 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
I'm all for this bill if it keeps Arnold and anyone from New Jersey out of the Presidency.
I'm not too sure about that, Rep. Rush Holt (D-NJ) actually managed to beat Watson in Jeopardy. That'd be interesting to see in a presidential race. Good luck trying to elect a Quaker, though, the only 2 in history were Hoover and Nixon. To be fair, neither of them had Ph.Ds.



Edited, Apr 18th 2011 1:09pm by bsphil
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#112 Apr 18 2011 at 12:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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bsphil wrote:
That'd be interesting to see in a presidential race.

"Hrmm... I like Holt's plan to readjust the capital gains tax but then Watson's 'Create an android army to enslave the human race' plan has some merits as well. Oh well, all these politicians are the same anyway no matter who I vote for..."
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#113varusword75, Posted: Apr 18 2011 at 12:41 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Jophed,
#114 Apr 18 2011 at 12:50 PM Rating: Decent
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varusword75 wrote:
Jophed,

So the more people that believe Obama is ineligible to be president the better in your opinion? Definitly liberal logic at work.
No, and that could be disproven by just stepping through logic, but we know how frightened you get by that.
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#115 Apr 18 2011 at 1:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
So the more people that believe Obama is ineligible to be president the better in your opinion?

No, but the more people fringers like you convince yourself agree with you, the better it is for Obama.
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#116 Apr 18 2011 at 2:03 PM Rating: Default
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rdmcandie wrote:
Quote:
It's actually kind of ironic, all of this work is probably hurting The Governator from ever becoming president.


I wasn't aware that Arnold could become the president. (unless Trump is the governator and ive been telling the joke wrong all these years.) Since he is knowingly not an American born citizen.

Edited, Apr 18th 2011 1:56pm by rdmcandie


Hence the point of my statement. You misinterpreted it.

Arnold is trying to REMOVE the necessity of being a natural born citizen.

This AZ law is ENFORCING the law.

So, by ENFORCING the law, it is hurting Arnold's campaign of REMOVING the law. Assuming this is a "Republican" move against the "Democrats", it is ironic since the Governator (who could win if he ran) is a Republican.
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#117 Apr 18 2011 at 2:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
rdmcandie wrote:
Quote:
It's actually kind of ironic, all of this work is probably hurting The Governator from ever becoming president.


I wasn't aware that Arnold could become the president. (unless Trump is the governator and ive been telling the joke wrong all these years.) Since he is knowingly not an American born citizen.

Edited, Apr 18th 2011 1:56pm by rdmcandie


Hence the point of my statement. You misinterpreted it.

Arnold is trying to REMOVE the necessity of being a natural born citizen.

This AZ law is ENFORCING the law.

So, by ENFORCING the law, it is hurting Arnold's campaign of REMOVING the law. Assuming this is a "Republican" move against the "Democrats", it is ironic since the Governator (who could win if he ran) is a Republican.
lolololol. wow.
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#118 Apr 18 2011 at 2:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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After his governor stint, I'm under the impression that Gov. Schwarzenegger has no designs on higher office, regardless of Constitutional eligibility.
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#119 Apr 18 2011 at 2:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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bsphil wrote:
Not statistically significant. Jesus you really do suck at this.
I told you he couldn't understand this. Its far too complicated. Stop picking on the ******* ******.
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#120 Apr 18 2011 at 2:38 PM Rating: Good
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Bardalicious wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
rdmcandie wrote:
Quote:
It's actually kind of ironic, all of this work is probably hurting The Governator from ever becoming president.


I wasn't aware that Arnold could become the president. (unless Trump is the governator and ive been telling the joke wrong all these years.) Since he is knowingly not an American born citizen.

Edited, Apr 18th 2011 1:56pm by rdmcandie


Hence the point of my statement. You misinterpreted it.

Arnold is trying to REMOVE the necessity of being a natural born citizen.

This AZ law is ENFORCING the law.

So, by ENFORCING the law, it is hurting Arnold's campaign of REMOVING the law. Assuming this is a "Republican" move against the "Democrats", it is ironic since the Governator (who could win if he ran) is a Republican.
lolololol. wow.


Either the dude's brain just plain works differently from most peoples', or he'll say anything to avoid admitting a mistake. Sometimes I think it's a little of both.

Edited, Apr 18th 2011 4:40pm by Eske
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#121 Apr 18 2011 at 2:42 PM Rating: Good
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Eske Esquire wrote:
Bardalicious wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
rdmcandie wrote:
Quote:
It's actually kind of ironic, all of this work is probably hurting The Governator from ever becoming president.


I wasn't aware that Arnold could become the president. (unless Trump is the governator and ive been telling the joke wrong all these years.) Since he is knowingly not an American born citizen.

Edited, Apr 18th 2011 1:56pm by rdmcandie


Hence the point of my statement. You misinterpreted it.

Arnold is trying to REMOVE the necessity of being a natural born citizen.

This AZ law is ENFORCING the law.

So, by ENFORCING the law, it is hurting Arnold's campaign of REMOVING the law. Assuming this is a "Republican" move against the "Democrats", it is ironic since the Governator (who could win if he ran) is a Republican.
lolololol. wow.


Either the dude's brain just plain works differently from most peoples', or he'll say anything to avoid admitting a mistake. Sometimes I think it's a little of both.

Edited, Apr 18th 2011 4:40pm by Eske


In before "I'm the only one who admits my mistakes!! NO one here does that, ever, only me!!!"
#122 Apr 18 2011 at 3:46 PM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
I'm all for this bill if it keeps Arnold and anyone from New Jersey out of the Presidency.
I'm not too sure about that, Rep. Rush Holt (D-NJ) actually managed to beat Watson in Jeopardy. That'd be interesting to see in a presidential race. Good luck trying to elect a Quaker, though, the only 2 in history were Hoover and Nixon. To be fair, neither of them had Ph.Ds.
I'm not saying I don't want an unqualified President from New Jersey. I'm saying I don't want a President from New Jersey. Kind of like I don't want another President from the South.
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#123varusword75, Posted: Apr 18 2011 at 3:48 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Jophed,
#124 Apr 18 2011 at 3:51 PM Rating: Good
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varusword75 wrote:
Jophed,

Quote:
No, but the more people fringers like you convince yourself agree with you, the better it is for Obama.


And the more fringers like yourself exclaim there's no issue the louder the cries for his birth certificate get. Most independents are sick of hearing about this and are going to put this all on Obama for failing to release any info.

OR, the more sick of this the independents get, the more likely they're going to think the birthers are nuts and disregard it.
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#125varusword75, Posted: Apr 18 2011 at 3:55 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Ugly,
#126 Apr 18 2011 at 3:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
Independents know that if the "birthers" havn't given up for the last 5yrs they're not likely to anytime soon.
Too bad the birthers don't seem to realize that nothing they do on this particular issue will change the independent's mind. Good use of five years.
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#127 Apr 18 2011 at 3:59 PM Rating: Good
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If I were Obama, I'd keep this going until the next election, then finally drop it to make all these people look like the idiots they are and swing a few more independents his way as a result. Or, maybe just keep it from them out of spite. I'm petty like that.
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#128varusword75, Posted: Apr 18 2011 at 4:00 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) lol,
#129 Apr 18 2011 at 4:02 PM Rating: Good
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Certainly. If Reagan can do it, Trump certainly can.
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#130 Apr 18 2011 at 4:04 PM Rating: Decent
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varusword75 wrote:
Independents know that if the "birthers" havn't given up for the last 5yrs they're not likely to anytime soon.
Oh shit, following that logic we really DIDN'T land on the moon! After all, a group of people are still adamantly saying it's false.

Here's a science lesson on how the brain works in these scenarios. I'm sure you won't read it though, and the reason why is explained thoroughly in the article.
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#131 Apr 18 2011 at 4:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
Most independents are sick of hearing about this and are going to put this all on Obama for failing to release any info.

Tee-hee.
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#132 Apr 18 2011 at 4:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Samira wrote:
Well, it would seem to violate the "full faith and credit" clause. Some political analysts have weighed in on this already; here's a fairly accessible write-up that also mentions a bill in Arkansas that tried to impose term limits by leaving people off the state ballot if they'd already served two terms.

Here's the full faith and credit discussion specifically:

Quote:
Arizona’s bill, if it becomes law, would also seem to be vulnerable to a challenge under the Full Faith And Credit Clause. Section 1 of Article IV of the Constitution requires states to give full faith and credit to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. This includes accepting as genuine records from a sister state that have been officially certified under seal from the appropriate record keeper. Under Arizona’s law, the Hawaii Certification Of Live Birth, which is an official document from the State of Hawaii, and the only birth record that the state releases. By failing to accept this document, even for the limited purpose that this law is written for, Arizona would be failing to give full faith and credit to the records of not just Hawaii, but every other state that only issues COLB’s as birth records.


Bolding mine.



Except that full faith and credit still allows for the other state to request the full available documentation in the case of any questions about authenticity. The equivalent of an ID card issued from the other state isn't a substitute for the documented information upon which the ID card is based.

And by the way, it's absolutely false that the Certification is the "only record the state releases". In fact, it's very interesting that up until the whole Obama birth certificate thing, the state released full long form certificates regularly, and in many state processes requested them as the preferred documentation. In fact, up until literally a month or two ago, you could request them. Magically, when Trump started making this a big issue again the state changed their policy and stopped giving their citizens the option of requesting it.


Also of interest is that the state of Hawaii appears to have renamed the "Certification of Live bith" (the digital document with limited information on it presented by Obama) as the "Certificate of live birth". So basically re-writing history so that they can claim that what they're providing now is a full certificate, even though it obviously contains far far less information than a certificate used to.


I suspect that the whole full faith and credit thing gets a bit weak when it starts to look like someone in one state is hiding something from another. Clearly, those long forms do exist. I just don't see how this represents any sort of major problem here. Exactly how many people are trying to get their names on the ballot running for President from any given state at any given period of time? This is hardly an overwhelming burden to the states that issued the documents to provide full copies for examination when requested in this case.
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#133 Apr 18 2011 at 4:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
And by the way, it's absolutely false that the Certification is the "only record the state releases". In fact, it's very interesting that up until the whole Obama birth certificate thing, the state released full long form certificates regularly, and in many state processes requested them as the preferred documentation. In fact, up until literally a month or two ago, you could request them. Magically, when Trump started making this a big issue again the state changed their policy and stopped giving their citizens the option of requesting it.

Too lazy to go look myself so feel free to cite. I find it interesting that the Dept. of Health policy under Governor Lingle suddenly changed to protect Obama (which is what you're implying whether you have the balls to admit to it or not).

Edited, Apr 18th 2011 5:57pm by Jophiel
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#134 Apr 18 2011 at 5:03 PM Rating: Default
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Belkira wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
Bardalicious wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
rdmcandie wrote:
Quote:
It's actually kind of ironic, all of this work is probably hurting The Governator from ever becoming president.


I wasn't aware that Arnold could become the president. (unless Trump is the governator and ive been telling the joke wrong all these years.) Since he is knowingly not an American born citizen.

Edited, Apr 18th 2011 1:56pm by rdmcandie


Hence the point of my statement. You misinterpreted it.

Arnold is trying to REMOVE the necessity of being a natural born citizen.

This AZ law is ENFORCING the law.

So, by ENFORCING the law, it is hurting Arnold's campaign of REMOVING the law. Assuming this is a "Republican" move against the "Democrats", it is ironic since the Governator (who could win if he ran) is a Republican.
lolololol. wow.


Either the dude's brain just plain works differently from most peoples', or he'll say anything to avoid admitting a mistake. Sometimes I think it's a little of both.

Edited, Apr 18th 2011 4:40pm by Eske


In before "I'm the only one who admits my mistakes!! NO one here does that, ever, only me!!!"


You're so off topic it's ridiculous. That's only relevant when talking about admittance. This isn't the scenario. This is just people acting stupid. The dude wants to get be president. If the nation is pushing towards supporting the current law, it will make his fight against the current law more difficult. What part of that is hard to comprehend?

Multiple stupid people don't make you right nor does it make me wrong.
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#135 Apr 18 2011 at 5:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
lol,

Actually their minds are being changed; in large part thanks to Trump. It's easy to marginalize Joe the plumber Donald Trump (one of america's wealthiest and best known capitalists) is another matter altogether.

States are actually stepping into the issue now.

Obama's not going to be able to simply ignore this issue again.



Being an independent voter, I can honestly say, I'd rather they dug up Nixon and ran his carcass for president before giving the vote to Trump.
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#136 Apr 18 2011 at 5:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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Back in 2008, Governor Lingle's office wrote:
Aloha,

Thank you for emailing Governor Linda Lingle's office. A recent article in WorldNetDaily.com (October 26, 2008) claiming that Hawai‘i Governor Linda Lingle sealed Sen. Barack Obama's birth certificate is false.

Under Hawai‘i's state law (Hawai‘i Revised Statutes §338-18), copies of vital records may only be released to those who have a tangible relationship to the person whose record is being sought. Neither the Governor's office, nor any other office in the State of Hawai'i, can provide information concerning birth certificates, or produce birth certificates, to anyone except those who are listed in the law governing vital statistics records.

Vital statistics records, such as birth certificates, are protected by strict confidentiality requirements. Specifically, pursuant to section 338-18, Hawai‘i Revised Statutes (HRS), the Department of Health, which maintains these records, may not allow the inspection of a birth certificate, or issue a certified copy of a birth certificate, or disclose any information contained in a birth certificate, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record:

(a) To protect the integrity of vital statistics records, to ensure their proper use, and to ensure the efficient and proper administration of the vital statistics system, it shall be unlawful for any person to permit inspection of, or to disclose information contained in vital statistics records, or to copy or issue a copy of all or part of any such record, except as authorized by this part or by rules adopted by the department of health.

(b) The department shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record. The following persons shall be considered to have a direct and tangible interest in a public health statistics record:

(1) The registrant;
(2) The spouse of the registrant;
(3) A parent of the registrant;
(4) A descendant of the registrant;
(5) A person having a common ancestor with the registrant;
(6) A legal guardian of the registrant;
(7) A person or agency acting on behalf of the registrant;
(8) A personal representative of the registrant's estate;
(9) A person whose right to inspect or obtain a certified copy of the record is established by an order of a court of competent jurisdiction;
(10) Adoptive parents who have filed a petition for adoption and who need to determine the death of one or more of the prospective adopted child's natural or legal parents;
(11) A person who needs to determine the marital status of a former spouse in order to determine the payment of alimony;
(12) A person who needs to determine the death of a nonrelated co-owner of property purchased under a joint tenancy agreement; and
(13) A person who needs a death certificate for the determination of payments under a credit insurance policy.

You can find the complete statute at http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0018.htm

Mahalo,

Office of Governor Lingle

As it turns out, Governor Lingle actively campaigned for John McCain for president. So it is indeed "very interesting" that "up until the whole Obama birth certificate thing, the state released full long form certificates regularly". It is possible that officials from other states may have met the requirements listed above and thus received the appropriate records (determining martial status, property owner death, etc). But the onus is on the crazy Birther folk to show what exactly (if anything) has changed and make a connection between it and the president.

Edit: Actually, from reading the linked law, states who had need of the information still don't receive the certificate but rather verification of its contents.
Said law wrote:
(g) The department shall not issue a verification in lieu of a certified copy of any such record, or any part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant requesting a verification is:

(1) A person who has a direct and tangible interest in the record but requests a verification in lieu of a certified copy;
(2) A governmental agency or organization who for a legitimate government purpose maintains and needs to update official lists of persons in the ordinary course of the agency's or organization's activities;
(3) A governmental, private, social, or educational agency or organization who seeks confirmation of a certified copy of any such record submitted in support of or information provided about a vital event relating to any such record and contained in an official application made in the ordinary course of the agency's or organization's activities by an individual seeking employment with, entrance to, or the services or products of the agency or organization;
(4) A private or government attorney who seeks to confirm information about a vital event relating to any such record which was acquired during the course of or for purposes of legal proceedings; or
(5) An individual employed, endorsed, or sponsored by a governmental, private, social, or educational agency or organization who seeks to confirm information about a vital event relating to any such record in preparation of reports or publications by the agency or organization for research or educational purposes


Edited, Apr 18th 2011 6:43pm by Jophiel
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#137 Apr 18 2011 at 6:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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LOL... I found the source of Gbaji's allegations.

Seriously, man? Seriously?
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#138 Apr 18 2011 at 6:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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#139 Apr 18 2011 at 6:35 PM Rating: Decent
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LOL... I found the source of Gbaji's allegations.

Seriously, man? Seriously?
Link? I'm morbidly curious. Or just the name of the site, no need to give them the bump on google. WND?
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#140 Apr 18 2011 at 6:40 PM Rating: Good
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#141 Apr 18 2011 at 6:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Some Right-Wingut "news" site. Some birther Tea Party nut is saying that "a man" told her that he tried to get a long form version of his birth certificate and was refused. No additional information, no letter from the state government, no nothing except that this Birther chick says that "a man" told her this happened and the insistance that he should have received it because his form allowed him to ask for it.

According to the State of Hawaii, they haven't offered a long form certificate since 2001. In an attempt to prove that Hawaii is a big liar, WND posted this article where someone says they got their long form certificate and proves it by showing a receipt with no information actually linking it to said certificate. Further down the page is a certificate someone says they received in March 2011 and it has the stamp to prove it. But when you click the link to the image's originating site (back to Post & Email)... well...


Here's the supposed "enlarged view"
Here's the original view
Squint at that date on the original. Here's the date on the original view enlarged 30%.

Lulz

Edit: In fact, all the "exclusive" information on that site seems to come from this Booth chick whose sole credentials are "once lived in Hawaii" but who is treated as some sort of government records expert.

Edited, Apr 18th 2011 8:08pm by Jophiel
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#142 Apr 18 2011 at 7:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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Governor vetoed it.

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#143 Apr 18 2011 at 7:21 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
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First Lingle and now Brewer??

LIBERAL CONSPIRACY!!!!

Gov. Brewer wrote:
"In addition, I never imagined being presented with a bill that could require candidates for President (sic) of the greatest and most powerful nation on earth to submit their "early baptismal or circumcision certificates" among other records to the Arizona Secretary of State. This is a bridge too far," Brewer wrote.

I'm amused since I thought the same thing was weird.

Edited, Apr 18th 2011 8:24pm by Jophiel
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#144 Apr 18 2011 at 8:55 PM Rating: Good
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I just realized they think the entire state of Hawaii has been in on this scam since Obama's birth.
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#145 Apr 18 2011 at 8:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
I just realized they think the entire state of Hawaii has been in on this scam since Obama's birth.


They're just getting us back for seizing the sandwich islands all those years ago.
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#146 Apr 18 2011 at 9:04 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
I just realized they think the entire state of Hawaii has been in on this scam since Obama's birth.

"Hey, doctor, see this random half-breed newborn here? Think we can make him President of the United States?"
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#147 Apr 18 2011 at 10:34 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
I just realized they think the entire state of Hawaii has been in on this scam since Obama's birth.


Has sort of a Manchurian Candidate feel to it. Will be epic when he does release his info and all the birthers move on to the next thing.
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#148 Apr 19 2011 at 1:13 AM Rating: Decent
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dunno if this was linked or not but this law is dead.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2011/04/19/Arizona-governor-vetoes-birther-bill/UPI-38241303191918/
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#149varusword75, Posted: Apr 19 2011 at 8:06 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Falkon,
#150 Apr 19 2011 at 8:16 AM Rating: Good
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varusword75 wrote:
Falkon,

Quote:
Being an independent voter, I can honestly say, I'd rather they dug up Nixon and ran his carcass for president before giving the vote to Trump.


The real question is do you think there's any merit to what he's saying? And do you think Obama, after 5yrs of fighting to have his records sealed, should release the information?


Oh and saying your independent means nothing. What you say tells us everything we need to know about your political views. And generally speaking someone who mentions Nixon with such disdain tend to lean to the left.


Say what you want about Nixon, but he was good at foreign policy.

That siad, I don't think Trump would make a good president, there are plenty of better potential candidates out there. If I could choose one it would be Sen. Lugar.
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#151 Apr 19 2011 at 9:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Oh, lots to say here...


Varus wrote:
And people running for president should have the expectation that what they've done in college or as a lawmaker should be open to the public for scrutiny. The fact is you don't want to know anything about the man you've elected because you don't work in the private sector and really don't care about how his actions are affecting the majority of the populace.


I don't hold politicians to a higher standard because they are people just like me. No one should have to have every thing they've ever done or said during their entire lives analysed and criticised. I don't make the connection between one's personal life and their public life. ****, despite my hatred of his politicial stance and decisions, I would gladly drink a beer with W(if he drank). He's just a man. So is Obama, so come off it.

Varus wrote:
Perhaps you should spend some more time in college learning what the word 'expectation' means.


ex·pec·ta·tion   
[ek-spek-tey-shuhn]
–noun
1. the act or the state of expecting: to wait in expectation.
2. the act or state of looking forward or anticipating.
3. an expectant mental attitude: a high pitch of expectation.
4. something expected; a thing looked forward to.
5. Often, expectations. a prospect of future good or profit: to have great expectations.
6. the degree of probability that something will occur: There is little expectation that he will come.
7. Statistics . mathematical expectation.
8. the state of being expected: a large sum of money in expectation.

And I didn't even have to go to college to be able to know what expectation means before I looked for a definition to copy/paste.

Varus wrote:
If that were the case it would have served him better to have released them the first time around. What does he gain by having his birth certificate, or certificat of live birth, released? The people who don't believe he's american probably weren't going to vote for him anyway. The only thing that could happen is if he turned out to be not a citizen that could hurt him with the independents. Fact is Obama will never lose the support of democrats regardless of what he does or who he is.



Unfortunately he won't lose the support of the democrats because people will vote the party line no matter who's running. This is the problem with partisanship.

Varus wrote:
Not likely. Independents know that if the "birthers" havn't given up for the last 5yrs they're not likely to anytime soon. They also know Obama can end all this with one phone call. Unless of course you're like Joph and think Obama perpetuating this division is actually good for Obama.


****, Obama could literally walk up to a "birther" and literally rub his Birth Certificate all over their face, and they still wouldn't give up. No one ever said idiots were logical, they're just idiots.

Quote:
Oh and saying your independent means nothing. What you say tells us everything we need to know about your political views. And generally speaking someone who mentions Nixon with such disdain tend to lean to the left.



I actually feel that aside from the Watergate thing, Nixon had a good run and is seen as a terrible president without any regard for the rest of his time as President.

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I've always read Driftwood as the straight man in varus' double act. It helps if you read all of his posts in the voice of Droopy Dog.
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