Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
I took a poll on how boring this thread is. Here are the results:
53% very boring
44% not boring
3% Pat Buchanan
53% very boring
44% not boring
3% Pat Buchanan
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Grrr, damn you, confusing ballot! Check for hanging chads.
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#203Almalieque,
Posted: Apr 20 2011 at 8:11 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I'm just pointing out the facts. If you interpret that as being "butt-hurt", then hey "what ever floats your boat".
This thread is getting more Pat Buchanan.
OMG Alma, you are so clever!!11!
Almalieque wrote:
I'm just pointing out the facts. If you interpret that as being "butt-hurt", then hey "what ever floats your boat".
The guy who attempts to hold both sides of an argument during a debate is the one that looks like the fool, not the person who acknowledges it.
Jus' a lil' FYI for ya, twinkles.. but I'm sure you already knew that. Just another failed attempt of spinning the table.
The guy who attempts to hold both sides of an argument during a debate is the one that looks like the fool, not the person who acknowledges it.
Jus' a lil' FYI for ya, twinkles.. but I'm sure you already knew that. Just another failed attempt of spinning the table.
As I was saying... :D
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Nadenu wrote:
OMG Alma, you are so clever!!11!
Thanks!
Jophiel wrote:
As I was saying... :D
Saying what?
Almalieque wrote:
I'm looking to find out EXACTLY which side is above the other. If all your polls can do is tell me that the people are divided, then they are no good to me.
Almalieque wrote:
BECAUSE THAT'S MY WHOLE FREAKIN MOTIVE.. I want to know what the majority is. People like you and Belkira, will source these polls to say "The U.S. supports SSM" when in fact, that could very well be false.
Almalieque wrote:
Besides, you haven't answered, how do you know it is slightly in favor of SSM and not the other way around?
Almalieque wrote:
You admit that it's practically split, there is margin of error and you also admit that you could find 500+ people out of a 1000 person survey that DON'T support SSM, how can you say it's in favor of SSM? You can't! You're simply saying it is because that's what you want it to say.
Almalieque wrote:
You're right, I didn't read [the article on the Weak Law of Large Numbers]
Not like I'm doing this to teach you anything, just showing everyone else another case study of how dense and idiotic you are.
Edited, Apr 20th 2011 10:12am by bsphil
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
Bsphil wrote:
That would be every poll ever.
False.. If every poll for a particular subject weighs heavily in one direction, then it tells me exactly what I what I want to know, what the majority believes in.
Bsphil wrote:
Then you have a stupid motive, which isn't at all surprising to me. Suddenly going from 50% - 1 to 50% + 1 isn't an important change in public opinion, it's a nigh meaningless one, actually.
As a stand alone, you're absolutely correct, it doesn't matter. The second you start using polls to claim that the U.S. feels one way over the other (what Belkira did), then yes, it makes a big difference. In that situation, you're ignoring the fact that it could be either or and simply using your favorite poll to justify your claim when it could very well be the complete opposite.
Bsphil wrote:
I don't know EXACTLY, but then again, I nor anyone else seems to have the same massive problem with it that you do. I just know the polls, where they're trending, and where they stand now. Not much has changed in the last year, anyway.
I don't have a problem with it as long as you don't try to use a poll which you know may be the exact opposite in percentages as support for your claim that the U.S. feels mostly a certain way.
Bsphil wrote:
You're STILL continuing to misunderstand statistical sampling. You really ought to go back and read that wiki page on WLLN. Sure, there's 1 million people that you could find that don't support SSM, but using random sampling, you'd end up finding slightly more people of those 1 million that do support SSM. Glad to know you'd like to go out of your way to find people who don't support SSM for your hypothetical poll though, pretty clear where you stand on bias and perpetuating misinformation.
You STILL continuing to misunderstand what I'm looking for. I understand statistical sampling and I have nothing against it. I only have a problem when people like you take a poll which YOU KNOW can sway either way and claim that 1000 random people accurately and fairly represents the U.S, when it doesn't. I didn't look at your wiki page, but I did look up several pages of statistical sampling and maybe you should do some research yourself to educate yourself.
Bsphil wrote:
Don't need to explain it, I already know you wouldn't. You're still wrong in your assumptions though, based on a misunderstanding of statistical theory. You still should read it.
How can I be wrong on something that I already proven to you? I presented two polls done in the same month on the same topic and they contradicted each other on the majority. Once again, I'm not arguing against statistics, but merely how you people are applying them to support their motive. You can't just pick a poll because it supports your claim.
You just can't seem to grasp that concept. It's not the laws or theories, its the practices that people are doing. So, no. There isn't any misunderstanding on my part. I don't have to know how taxes are done to know that people cheat on their taxes. I'm focusing on the latter and you're focusing on the former.
ITT: Alma has a conniption because he needs to know exactly what is the most popular, because heaven forbid he's in the minority with his opinions.
Almalieque wrote:
I understand statistical sampling and I have nothing against it.
Great!
Almalieque wrote:
I only have a problem when people like you take a poll which YOU KNOW can sway either way and claim that 1000 random people accurately and fairly represents the U.S, when it doesn't.
Oops, showed you were lying just one sentence later.
Alma wrote:
False.
Every time.
Edited, Apr 20th 2011 11:49am by Eske
Guenny wrote:
ITT: Alma has a conniption because he needs to know exactly what is the most popular, because heaven forbid he's in the minority with his opinions.
Nope, just don't pretend that something is the majority when it isn't. If you want to use polls, that's fine. If you realize that it can go either way, then say so. Don't take a poll that can go either way and use it as a tool to support your claim that it's a majority.
Majivo wrote:
Oops, showed you were lying just one sentence later.
Just because you fail to understand the various types of polls that can be done doesn't reflect on my knowledge. BUT!!! Since you're so hard on believing that I'm wrong... tell me how both of these polls equally and fairly represent the U.S. Go ahead.. I want to see you do this...
Poll 1: 645 Democrats (424 men/221 women)- mostly from the West/East Coast- Average age 52
355 Republicans (250 women/105 men) - mostly from the South/Mid South Coast- Average age 45
Poll 2: 500 Democrats (250 men/ 250 women)- 10 each state 5/5 men and women-
5 less than the age of 40, 5 above the age of 40
500 Republicans (250 men/ 250 women)-10 each state 5/5 men and women
5 less than the age of 40, 5 above the age of 40
Still not understanding statistics, Alma? Thought so.
Donate. One day it could be your family.
An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo
An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo
Hehehe
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
How many people in this thread think Alma's a tool?
(have to do it this way since I don't have premium)
(have to do it this way since I don't have premium)
Almalieque wrote:
Just because you fail to understand the various types of polls that can be done doesn't reflect on my knowledge.
Almalieque wrote:
Bsphil wrote:
Then you have a stupid motive, which isn't at all surprising to me. Suddenly going from 50% - 1 to 50% + 1 isn't an important change in public opinion, it's a nigh meaningless one, actually.
Almalieque wrote:
Poll 1: 645 Democrats (424 men/221 women)- mostly from the West/East Coast- Average age 52
355 Republicans (250 women/105 men) - mostly from the South/Mid South Coast- Average age 45
Poll 2: 500 Democrats (250 men/ 250 women)- 10 each state 5/5 men and women-
5 less than the age of 40, 5 above the age of 40
500 Republicans (250 men/ 250 women)-10 each state 5/5 men and women
5 less than the age of 40, 5 above the age of 40
355 Republicans (250 women/105 men) - mostly from the South/Mid South Coast- Average age 45
Poll 2: 500 Democrats (250 men/ 250 women)- 10 each state 5/5 men and women-
5 less than the age of 40, 5 above the age of 40
500 Republicans (250 men/ 250 women)-10 each state 5/5 men and women
5 less than the age of 40, 5 above the age of 40
smiley, this is hilarious. You don't start a poll by finding people to fit your demographics, you ask people randomly. For informational purposes, you end the survey with a question about their demographics. You're either glorifying your own bias or so deeply uninformed on the subject, I'm not sure which. Either way, it's pathetic.
Almalieque wrote:
I don't have to know how taxes are done to know that people cheat on their taxes.
Keep digging, that hole must be comfortable. Just admit you're wrong and you can come out.
Edited, Apr 20th 2011 12:45pm by bsphil
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
Bsphil wrote:
Then maybe instead of crying your crocodile tears over sampling sizes, try quoting a different poll. The conclusion derived from there is the same as I've said over and over: the country is fairly evenly split on the issue.
Do you still not realize that I'm not concerned about the percentages and that I'm looking for who's the majority, which is specifically one answer.
Bsphil wrote:
Somebody hook me up with a 
smiley, this is hilarious.
You don't start a poll by finding people to fit your demographics, you ask people randomly. For informational purposes, you end the survey with a question about their demographics. You're either glorifying your own bias or so deeply uninformed on the subject, I'm not sure which. Either way, it's pathetic.
smiley, this is hilarious. You don't start a poll by finding people to fit your demographics, you ask people randomly. For informational purposes, you end the survey with a question about their demographics. You're either glorifying your own bias or so deeply uninformed on the subject, I'm not sure which. Either way, it's pathetic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_sampling#Quota_sampling wrote:
In quota sampling, the population is first segmented into mutually exclusive sub-groups, just as in stratified sampling. Then judgment is used to select the subjects or units from each segment based on a specified proportion. For example, an interviewer may be told to sample 200 females and 300 males between the age of 45 and 60.
It is this second step which makes the technique one of non-probability sampling. In quota sampling the selection of the sample is non-random. For example interviewers might be tempted to interview those who look most helpful. The problem is that these samples may be biased because not everyone gets a chance of selection. This random element is its greatest weakness and quota versus probability has been a matter of controversy for many years.
It is this second step which makes the technique one of non-probability sampling. In quota sampling the selection of the sample is non-random. For example interviewers might be tempted to interview those who look most helpful. The problem is that these samples may be biased because not everyone gets a chance of selection. This random element is its greatest weakness and quota versus probability has been a matter of controversy for many years.
How ironic. The person who claims that I don't know how sampling works actually doesn't know how sampling works.... I told you that I researched the various forms of sampling and that you should do the same.
Bsphil wrote:
Yes you do. lol. How else can you tell the difference between what is allowable and what is not?
Keep digging, that hole must be comfortable. Just admit you're wrong and you can come out.
Keep digging, that hole must be comfortable. Just admit you're wrong and you can come out.
Read above.
Your whole argument is on percentages, when I'm focusing on who is actually the majority. You realized that you're wrong, but instead of staying on topic, you're trying to focus on percentages and argue this point that I'm "contradicting" statistics.
You're looking pretty sad now, a step or two above Ugly, but still sad.
Almalieque wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_sampling#Quota_sampling wrote:
In quota sampling, the population is first segmented into mutually exclusive sub-groups, just as in stratified sampling. Then judgment is used to select the subjects or units from each segment based on a specified proportion. For example, an interviewer may be told to sample 200 females and 300 males between the age of 45 and 60.
It is this second step which makes the technique one of non-probability sampling. In quota sampling the selection of the sample is non-random. For example interviewers might be tempted to interview those who look most helpful. The problem is that these samples may be biased because not everyone gets a chance of selection. This random element is its greatest weakness and quota versus probability has been a matter of controversy for many years.
It is this second step which makes the technique one of non-probability sampling. In quota sampling the selection of the sample is non-random. For example interviewers might be tempted to interview those who look most helpful. The problem is that these samples may be biased because not everyone gets a chance of selection. This random element is its greatest weakness and quota versus probability has been a matter of controversy for many years.
Almalieque wrote:
Your whole argument is on percentages, when I'm focusing on who is actually the majority.
Almalieque wrote:
You're looking pretty sad now
Edited, Apr 20th 2011 1:22pm by bsphil
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
Nadenu wrote:
How many people in this thread think Alma's a tool?
(have to do it this way since I don't have premium)
(have to do it this way since I don't have premium)
Donate. One day it could be your family.
An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo
An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Nadenu wrote:
How many people in this thread think Alma's a tool?
(have to do it this way since I don't have premium)
(have to do it this way since I don't have premium)
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
bsphil wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Nadenu wrote:
How many people in this thread think Alma's a tool?
(have to do it this way since I don't have premium)
(have to do it this way since I don't have premium)
Is Alma a Tool?
| Yes: |    | 20 (100.0%) |
| No: | | 0 (%) |
| Total: | 20 |
Edited, Apr 20th 2011 2:45pm by lolgaxe
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
Darn I liked my poll better has it aslo gave one a chance to bote that Alma is a Nincompoop and that Nad has lovely Tit's
Edited, Apr 20th 2011 2:32pm by ElneClare
Edited, Apr 20th 2011 2:32pm by ElneClare
In the place of a Dark Lord you would have a Queen! Not dark but beautiful and terrible as the Morn! Treacherous as the Seas! Stronger than the foundations of the Earth! All shall love me and despair! -ElneClare
This Post is written in Elnese, If it was an actual Post, it would make sense.
This Post is written in Elnese, If it was an actual Post, it would make sense.
If (god forbid) Alma ever hits 10k posts, I request his title be:
Not intended to be a factual statement
Not intended to be a factual statement
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
bsphil wrote:
If (god forbid) Alma ever hits 10k posts, I request his title be:
Not intended to be a factual statement
Not intended to be a factual statement
My vote still goes to Alma VI: Return of the Jester
Referencing this gem.
Edited, Apr 20th 2011 2:45pm by Eske
Thanks for the poll, lolgaxe. If only this sweet government teet I'm sucking on would pay for my premium...
Also: I remember the Jester thread. Good stuff.
Also: I remember the Jester thread. Good stuff.
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