Libyan No-Fly ZoneFollow

Lybia? Our mission in Libya was Protecting civilians.

You're so not wrong that you don't even need to bother citing sources or using facts to support your claims? That's a certain degree of impressive.

Cheap energy, and developing regional partners, as usual.

I did respond. Salazar said it should have a minimum impact on production as there are large leases still sitting untapped in the Gulf.

A fact you drive home with your second quote so... thanks, I guess.

Yeah, if I was proven to be completely wrong again and again, I'd be tempted to just start saying "Lalalalala!! I can't hear you!! Doesn't count!! Lalalala!!!" as well.

Fortunately, I've spent this thread proving you chuckleheads wrong instead so I haven't had to worry about it.

No doubt. Quite a bulletproof argument you've constructed. I mean, the academic rigor behind it is astounding!

You forgot to mention that oil production has increased year-to-year for every month that Obama has been in office after experiencing drops in the two years before that (...maybe further but I stopped looking).

You say I was arguing your point for you but I guess your point must have been "I have no complaints about domestic oil production since Obama took office". Glad to see we're on the same page.

Sure! Because oil production turns on a dime and minor variations of said production have nothing at all to do with current oil prices.



Except the issue was about what Obama is specifically doing to affect said production. Are you arguing that the Democrats lied during the 2006, 2008, and 2010 campaigns when they opposed making changes to help increase domestic oil production? Or maybe, they didn't make such changes at all, but because of other factors oil production just happened to increase over the last couple years?

I'm assuming the latter, but you're more than free to show what legislative and/or regulatory changes the Democrats have put in place over the last 2-4 years which caused this recent boom (ok, more like slight increase) in domestic production.

I honestly have no clue what you think this pattern shows. Oil production has steadily decreased every decade since 1971. The fact that there was a sharp dip in 2005,2006,2007, and 2008 is why you're seeing an "increase" over the last couple years. But the base trend line is still steadily going downward. Our production today is still lower than it was in the early 2000s, which was lower than it was in the early 1990s, which was lower than it was in the early 1980s, which was... wait for it... lower than it was in the early 1970s.



What's funny is that you're tossing out out of context statistics apparently to argue that your party is somehow not doing what they promised and *is* doing what the GOP promised. Kind of a strange turn around, don't you agree? What's next? You'll argue that Obama is going to repeal that awful health care bill that was passed just a while ago?

Lol! Sometimes, I really think that you get so caught up in the argument that you forget what you're arguing.



That's a nice strawman, I suppose. But that's not it at all. The argument Varus was making was that Obama has done nothing to increase domestic production in the US, yet he's handing 2 Billion dollars to help Brazil increase their production. Specifically, we're talking about oil production in the Gulf. While the Obama administration has maintained significant restrictions on drilling in the Gulf by the US, he's encouraging and even directly funding drilling in the Gulf by other nations.


That's kinda strange, don't you think? If it was purely about the environmental issues, you'd think he wouldn't be helping Brazil to drill in the gulf. So since he is, it would make one suspect that the moratorium on drilling by US companies must have more to do with economics than environmentalism. One might suggest that he wants our companies to make less money, while foreign companies make more. But that's just crazy, right?

Right?




And I'm pointing out that this has nothing to do with anything our government has done since Obama took office. Remember the whole correlation vs causation thing? It's funny how selectively you apply that.

And the lack of replacement locations being opened up? Yes. That might exactly be it! Amazing how you can get half there on your own but then fail to close the deal mentally.



Honestly Joph? My only stake in this was to point out that your response to Varus of "But we subsidize the oil industry!!!" was ridiculous. I've more than proven that point. Everything else is just sheer thread inertia and I'm not really caring much at all.



Yeah, well. They're not. And the connection isn't as direct as Varus made it out to be. Did I mention that my point here isn't to defend the specifics of Varus' posts, but merely to show that your own responses are equally flawed?



Yes. Which is what the $2B we gave them a couple years ago was for. However, the same Brazilian company we gave the money to then is now opening up a new drilling operation in the gulf, and said operation was approved by the US dept of interior right before Obama went on his trip to South America. Coincidence? Maybe. And hey! I'm sure none of that $2B we gave them back in 2009 will in any way fund or influence this new platform in the gulf. Nope. Cause they'll keep that money in a separate bag or something!

Yeah. And I'll save you the really nutty conspiracy stuff and avoid pointing out the interesting relationship between George Soros investment shifts in Petrobras (the Brazilian company in question) during and around these various events. Cause that would just be paying back a supporter with taxpayer money and that would be illegal, right?

Um... Of course we're still left with a nearly complete moratorium on US companies drilling in the Gulf, while a Brazilian owned company is given a great big green light. Why do you suppose that is? And even ignoring the gulf region specifically, by blocking new offshore drilling off the East and West coasts of the US (and all areas around and in Alaska), we're basically handing production profits to other countries in the region.



/shrug

Bush and the GOP implemented changes which were intended to open up offshore drilling nationwide starting in 2007. Most of that got blocked by the Dems when they took congress back in 2006. I could start digging up facts and figures to make the case that the relatively tiny amounts of increase we've seen over the exact time frame in which these increases were supposed to happen might just be the result of the few measures that weren't eliminated by the Dems having an effect, but honestly I just don't feel like going point counterpoint on this one. If you want to pretend that Obama magically had a hand in creating those oil production increases despite not passing a single piece of legislation and creating an executive moratorium against drilling in the gulf *and* his entire party being vocally opposed to any new drilling for oil the whole time, then by all means knock yourself out.


I think it's a silly line of argument from the start. I'll ask again: Are you actually trying to argue that the Dems are for increase domestic oil production in the US?

Werds...

Is this anything like that last thing you "heard" on NPR that was completely wrong?


Good point. In fact, identical to the point Obama and Salazar were making. You'd make a great Democrat, I guess.


In 2008, it cost me considerably more than in 2007. Bush haets oilz!

Edited, Mar 30th 2011 9:21am by Jophiel

Yeah, going from one carbon-based energy source to another is sooooooo radical :D Are you denying that our native coal and gas resources are many, many times larger than our domestic oil resources?


Oh, absolutely none. That's why I actually read things, learn about the topic, cite sources, etc.

You two clowns, on the other hand, get hysterical about loans that haven't actually happened, lecture about subsidies while getting it 100% wrong, moved the Santos Basin 10,000 miles from where it actually is, are completely ignorant of domestic production trends and apparently don't know a thing about the nations actual energy reserves. You just know how to cry about Obama because it's all Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh & Andrew Breitbart have taught you two guys to do.

Edited, Mar 30th 2011 10:10am by Jophiel

Let me just go out to the electronics mine and gather another bucket full of electronics for my leafs.

Yeah, really. I know that educating yourself before spewing half-cocked nonsense you heard on the radio is a novel thing for you but you should try it some time.


And yet we have you wetting your pants over it and Gbaji informing us all that this is a NEW $2bil give-away so George Soros can drill all the oil in the Gulf and give it to Brazil after they already used the OLD $2bil give-away to clean out the Santos basin.

Hilarious.

Yeah. In this thread. You left your Obama-terror urine all over it.

proof this.