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Senate Repeals DADTFollow

#1 Dec 18 2010 at 5:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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As long as Obama signs off on it, as he says he will, the ban on gays in the US military is over.

And not a moment too soon. Nothing terrifies a terrorist more than a flaming queen with a rifle skipping towards him.

:D
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#2 Dec 18 2010 at 5:36 PM Rating: Good
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It will not happen until the Sec Def, and the Joint Chiefs say its ok to do so. They now have permission to do it, but may postpone it until it is "safe" to our military needs.
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#3 Dec 18 2010 at 5:41 PM Rating: Good
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Kind of a double ended sword. I mean sure the gays gained a few basic rights and were partially acknowledged as equals, but now I've got one less situation to gaudily say "You can't have a first class nation with second class citizens!"

Edited, Dec 18th 2010 5:42pm by Allegory
#4 Dec 18 2010 at 5:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Allegory wrote:
Kind of a double ended sword. I mean sure the gays gained a few basic rights and were partially acknowledged as equals, but now I've got one less situation to gaudily say "You can't have a first class nation with second class citizens!"

Edited, Dec 18th 2010 5:42pm by Allegory
Well, I don't think varus is going to die anytime soon, so you still have plenty of ammo.
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#5 Dec 18 2010 at 5:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Allegory wrote:
Kind of a double ended sword. I mean sure the gays gained a few basic rights and were partially acknowledged as equals, but now I've got one less situation to gaudily say "You can't have a first class nation with second class citizens!"
Plus I've lost my draft-dodging ace in the hole
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#6 Dec 18 2010 at 6:27 PM Rating: Good
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Don't be silly Bard, like they were gonna let us poor ****** out of the draft. DADT clearly wasn't going to seem so important if we were in a war that actually required the draft.

And the bill can't go into affect for another 60 days, so hopefully the pentagon won't take much longer than that to change procedures.

I'm not really sure why that would take long (other than deliberately delaying it). I mean, how is it not as easy as "Okay, don't report people for being ***--done?--and those undergoing investigations now are cleared?"

The only thing I could see being difficult is readmitting dismissed members with their benefits intact.
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#7 Dec 18 2010 at 7:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Senators Snowe and Lieberman deserve exceptional credit for fighting to make sure this bill passed.

Senators Ensign and Burr are cowardly shits who refused to vote to end the filibuster but then jumped on the bill once the filibuster was defeated and it was obvious the bill would pass.

Edited, Dec 18th 2010 7:54pm by Jophiel
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#8 Dec 18 2010 at 9:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jonwin wrote:
It will not happen until the Sec Def, and the Joint Chiefs say its ok to do so. They now have permission to do it, but may postpone it until it is "safe" to our military needs.


Actually, if I recall correctly, there's been some sort of hearing involving the top brass of the armed forces. I do believe all of them but the Marine Corps said they approve of repealing DADT, and General Amos pretty much summed it up as, "We're Marines. We follow orders."
#9 Dec 18 2010 at 11:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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#10 Dec 19 2010 at 1:35 AM Rating: Good
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#11 Dec 19 2010 at 5:30 AM Rating: Good
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Allegory wrote:
Kind of a double ended sword.


Super ***?
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#12 Dec 19 2010 at 2:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Finally.

DADT was just a horrible idea. All the arguments for it that I've heard (morale, unit cohesion, etc) were used in the 40s before they de-segregated the military, and I'm glad there's one less policy in this country that downgrades *** people.

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#13 Dec 19 2010 at 3:10 PM Rating: Good
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They were literally the same argument. Except that the discrimination against gays was worse in ways. Of course, the black guy couldn't hide the fact that he was black. But he was still allowed to serve in some capacity. Th gays just got kicked out and stripped of all their pensions (some of which were the result of over a decade in the service).

And is it just me, or are lesbians in the military more logical than straight women in the military? I mean, the lezzie isn't gonna get preggers, for starters. And have you seen butch lesbians? I would NOT f*ck with them.

The whole argument stems from the idea of the *** as a sissy who can't be trusted in war, which is why they are claiming that it would destroy unit cohesion (with the tough straight soldier unwilling to trust the guy with gaga playing on his ipod in the middle of a fire fight). Of course, they conveniently forget that there are plenty of super masculine *** guys. You know, all those *** guys who were in the military for years before getting caught...

Plus, the policy itself was destroying unit cohesion actively. A few months ago, a veteran flight nurse was kicked out for being a *******. I REALLY doubt the bleeding soldier was going to care that he and the lady ensuring he doesn't die have more in common than he would have thought. Plus, "all right, ******* nurse!"

Same thing for soldiers kicked out of combat troops. Do you think the guys would prefer another person there to help, or for the icky *** to go away? There's a reason comrade testimony has been such a huge part of reinstating gays into the military in the last year.
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#14Almalieque, Posted: Dec 19 2010 at 3:46 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) o.O Source? From my experiences, that has been the least of anyone's concerns. Sounds like you're making stuff up.
#15 Dec 19 2010 at 4:12 PM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
idiggory wrote:

The whole argument stems from the idea of the *** as a sissy who can't be trusted in war, which is why they are claiming that it would destroy unit cohesion (with the tough straight soldier unwilling to trust the guy with gaga playing on his ipod in the middle of a fire fight). Of course, they conveniently forget that there are plenty of super masculine *** guys. You know, all those *** guys who were in the military for years before getting caught...


o.O Source? From my experiences, that has been the least of anyone's concerns. Sounds like you're making stuff up.

According to the big brass who agreed to the repeal on certain circumstances stated a whole other argument. Coincidentally, the same one I later used...


There is no argument for DADT that doesn't stem from bigotry, so would you care to elaborate your position?
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#16 Dec 19 2010 at 4:27 PM Rating: Default
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SuperAtheist wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
idiggory wrote:

The whole argument stems from the idea of the *** as a sissy who can't be trusted in war, which is why they are claiming that it would destroy unit cohesion (with the tough straight soldier unwilling to trust the guy with gaga playing on his ipod in the middle of a fire fight). Of course, they conveniently forget that there are plenty of super masculine *** guys. You know, all those *** guys who were in the military for years before getting caught...


o.O Source? From my experiences, that has been the least of anyone's concerns. Sounds like you're making stuff up.

According to the big brass who agreed to the repeal on certain circumstances stated a whole other argument. Coincidentally, the same one I later used...


There is no argument for DADT that doesn't stem from bigotry, so would you care to elaborate your position?


Sure, at first I had my own personal opinion, then I heard a 4 star mention something that I didn't ever realize.

The military living conditions are often tight and close, causing people to live with each other and shower together. Allowing open homosexuals to live with heterosexuals causes the same privacy issues as allowing men and women to live, sleep and shower together. So, the conclusion would be to either have separate billeting or have everyone live, sleep and shower together, regardless of *** or sexuality. This is why they agreed to the repeal, just at a later date.
#17 Dec 19 2010 at 4:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:


There is no argument for DADT that doesn't stem from bigotry, so would you care to elaborate your position?

Sure, at first I had my own personal opinion, then I heard a 4 star mention something that I didn't ever realize.

The military living conditions are often tight and close, causing people to live with each other and shower together. Allowing open homosexuals to live with heterosexuals causes the same privacy issues as allowing men and women to live, sleep and shower together. So, the conclusion would be to either have separate billeting or have everyone live, sleep and shower together, regardless of *** or sexuality. This is why they agreed to the repeal, just at a later date.


That's an argument for separate bedding/showers, not an argument for DADT.

Edited, Dec 19th 2010 5:36pm by SuperAtheist
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#18 Dec 19 2010 at 5:12 PM Rating: Default
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SuperAtheist wrote:
Almalieque wrote:


There is no argument for DADT that doesn't stem from bigotry, so would you care to elaborate your position?

Sure, at first I had my own personal opinion, then I heard a 4 star mention something that I didn't ever realize.

The military living conditions are often tight and close, causing people to live with each other and shower together. Allowing open homosexuals to live with heterosexuals causes the same privacy issues as allowing men and women to live, sleep and shower together. So, the conclusion would be to either have separate billeting or have everyone live, sleep and shower together, regardless of *** or sexuality. This is why they agreed to the repeal, just at a later date.


That's an argument for separate bedding/showers, not an argument for DADT.

Edited, Dec 19th 2010 5:36pm by SuperAtheist


I'm sorry if you fail to see the connection.
#19 Dec 19 2010 at 5:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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An argument that comes down to "them gays are icky so we don't want the real men to have to shower with them" which is pretty sad.
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#20 Dec 19 2010 at 5:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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So now that the bill has passed, I'm curious as to what defenses those who opposed the repeal will offer in a few years.

I'd wager the most popular response will be:

"I was never opposed to the repeal. I was just opposed to a rash implementation. Republicans were always in favor of homosexuals serving in the military, but we wanted to make sure it was done right."
#21 Dec 19 2010 at 6:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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#22 Dec 19 2010 at 6:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Also, you are assuming that the reason separate showers exist in the first place is due to sexual desire. Frankly, it seems more true to me that it has to due with a sense of modesty--Men don't expose themselves to women and vice versa. There's nothing a *** man has that the straight man doesn't.

Let me put it this way--why might a straight man be uncomfortable in a co-ed changing room? Do you think it's because he will feel like other people in there are sexually attracted to him? No. Not a chance. It's because he feels like it is immodest.

Some people will be fine with it. Some women may not want to change because they feel like the men might be looking at them sexually. But I doubt any of the straight men don't want to change for that reason.

I could be wrong, of course, but that's my instinct.

So not wanting to change in the same room as a *** is solely because you think gays are disgusting on some level.

Oh, another note, studies have shown that homophobia is often linked to homosexual desire. Just saying.
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#23Almalieque, Posted: Dec 19 2010 at 7:04 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Which has proven the point being argued. I talked to a friend about this last night on the phone and she said exactly what I said before. A lot of us already know who's ***. I can't speak for the circumstances of people being booted. For the most part, people don't care during the work day. More people care when it comes to living arrangements.
#24 Dec 19 2010 at 7:39 PM Rating: Excellent
You bring up the privacy issue, but why would there be a privacy issue with *** men that wouldn't be there with straight men? What is the issue of privacy?

My other comment would be that if as you've said people are generally aware of who is *** and seem to be fine with it, then where do these privacy issues suddenly come from? Or are there a bunch of issues, and we're just not aware of them.

Edited, Dec 19th 2010 7:39pm by Xsarus
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#25 Dec 19 2010 at 8:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
Iddigory wrote:
And it's no different than if you showered at a gym.

And guess what, no one who isn't brain dead should care in the first place. Why? Because you are delusional if you think every *** guy wants to have *** with you.


Oh, yea that's right, *** men aren't attracted to men... what was I thinking.... o.O... I thought by now people would drop that stupid argument. So, I guess you think heterosexual men aren't attracted to lesbians?


Holy ****, this has got to be the most stupid argument from you ever. And that's saying a lot.

And don't fuCking ask me to explain.
#26 Dec 19 2010 at 8:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
The military living conditions are often tight and close, causing people to live with each other and shower together. Allowing open homosexuals to live with heterosexuals causes the same privacy issues as allowing men and women to live, sleep and shower together.

Canada, the UK, Israel, France, Germany, Russia... ****, practically every other military on earth worth mentioning has figured out how to make it work. I'm sure we'll figure it out somehow.
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#27 Dec 19 2010 at 8:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nadenu wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
Iddigory wrote:
And it's no different than if you showered at a gym.

And guess what, no one who isn't brain dead should care in the first place. Why? Because you are delusional if you think every *** guy wants to have *** with you.


Oh, yea that's right, *** men aren't attracted to men... what was I thinking.... o.O... I thought by now people would drop that stupid argument. So, I guess you think heterosexual men aren't attracted to lesbians?


Holy sh*t, this has got to be the most stupid argument from you ever. And that's saying a lot.

And don't fuCking ask me to explain.
As a *** man I must point out that I'm attracted to and want to **** anything even remotely manlike.

Watch out Ann Coulter, here I come.
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#28 Dec 19 2010 at 8:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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#29Almalieque, Posted: Dec 19 2010 at 8:25 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Idiggory,
#30 Dec 19 2010 at 8:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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#31 Dec 19 2010 at 8:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Idiggory,

I'm not going to waste any more time with you. You asked a question, I gave you the answer. If you don't like that answer or believe it's true, then that's a personal problem. It is what it is.

I never argued about the history of DADT and admitted that there are people who are ignorant, I responded based on my personal experience, because that's all I can go on.


Then don't claim that your antagonists are making stuff up to suit their needs, when you don't even have a fucking clue (ADMITTEDLY) and aren't even willing to educate yourself when someone GIVES YOU SOURCES. And PS, claiming that I was wrong regarding why people were opposing DADT is arguing about its history.

Because, guess what, you have NO personal experience in this matter. You chatting with a friend about it doesn't suddenly give you insight to some issue.

And, PS, not liking the answer to a question is only a personal problem if your answer is correct. Yours isn't. Goodbye.
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#32Almalieque, Posted: Dec 19 2010 at 8:36 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I have faith that they will also. Like I said, it's all politics. If the big wigs in the military were really for repealing the DADT, then they would have done it a while back.
#33 Dec 19 2010 at 8:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
Nadenu wrote:
Holy sh*t, this has got to be the most stupid argument from you ever. And that's saying a lot.

And don't @#%^ing ask me to explain.


There's nothing for you to explain as you just made up stuff to counter. Thanks for pointing that out and saving me the time from asking you to explain. Straight men don't suddenly think a beautiful lady isn't attractive after finding out that she's a *******. Women don't suddenly think a handsome guy isn't attractive after finding out that he's ***. What makes you think it would change between two people of the same ***? That biologically doesn't make sense.


None of this is the point. God, you're thick.
#34Almalieque, Posted: Dec 19 2010 at 8:40 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Didn't know being in the military with homosexuals didn't count as personal experience... This is why I'm not wasting my time debating your "logic". You're pulling up sources from the past and stuff and I'm talking about the present as I'm living it..
#35 Dec 19 2010 at 8:44 PM Rating: Default
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Nadenu wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
Nadenu wrote:
Holy sh*t, this has got to be the most stupid argument from you ever. And that's saying a lot.

And don't @#%^ing ask me to explain.


There's nothing for you to explain as you just made up stuff to counter. Thanks for pointing that out and saving me the time from asking you to explain. Straight men don't suddenly think a beautiful lady isn't attractive after finding out that she's a *******. Women don't suddenly think a handsome guy isn't attractive after finding out that he's ***. What makes you think it would change between two people of the same ***? That biologically doesn't make sense.


None of this is the point. God, you're thick.


Wait, wait, wait.. I make a statement, you respond back as that is the dumbest argument ever (haven't heard that before) I REPEAT what I said originally and you say that wasn't the point? HELLO!! I was the one who first made the point, if anyone here is thick, it's you...

Bard understood the point and interpreted your response the same way... so, I think you should try it again if you meant something else.
#36 Dec 19 2010 at 8:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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/facepalm
#37 Dec 19 2010 at 8:49 PM Rating: Excellent
Almalieque wrote:
1. The privacy issue is the exact same as having a man share close quarters with a woman.
What is the privacy issue that exists for a *** man that doesn't exist for a straight man? If you want to say it's the same as with a woman, explain the connection please.

Almalieque wrote:
2. Because they are assumptions. They aren't admitting that they are *** so you have nothing to argue against.
I don't see this as being a significant distinction. If you know someone is ***, then your attitude towards them shouldn't be different if they have explicitly admitted it. I don't buy that somehow them being allowed to admit it magically changes the way people think about a person.
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#38 Dec 19 2010 at 8:50 PM Rating: Good
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#39 Dec 19 2010 at 8:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think Alma's upset that he's never been hit on by a *** man.

So sad.
#40 Dec 19 2010 at 8:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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If it wasn't alma, I'd volunteer to help. Maybe Bard will take one for the team.

Oh yeah, and @ alma, when the Pentagon released its report saying that the repeal of DADT would cause little to no immediate harm to the armed forces (and no extended harm), it also included a commentary on why the military SHOULDN'T segregate bathrooms.

Quote:
Though some troops suggested during the study that there should be separate bath and living facilities for gays, the report recommended against it because it would be a "logistical nightmare, expensive and impossible to administer."

Further, separate facilities would stigmatize gays and lesbians in the way that "separate but equal" facilities did to blacks before the 1960s, it said.


*cough*

Edited, Dec 19th 2010 10:01pm by idiggory
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#41Almalieque, Posted: Dec 19 2010 at 9:00 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Because you have no proof, you're just stereotyping. I would have bet $100 that this chick in my class was ***** with her friend and apparently I was wrong. I didn't treat her differently because I thought she was something. There's another guy who acts 120% flamming ***** besides talking to/about women. People still thinks he's a ****, but there isn't any proof to say otherwise. If you're spending that much time thinking about someone's sexuality, then you're wasting time.
#42 Dec 19 2010 at 9:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

A. You were SURE this girl in your class was a "*****" and you know another guy who's "flaming" and you think that people weren't treating them just as bad as if they had come out (even if they weren't?) Until my senior year, I was the *only* out kid in my school. Do you think I was the only one being mocked for being ***?

B. You are only showing how retarded you are if you refuse to read the rebuttles. I'm replying to what you said SPECIFICALLY. I completely understand WHAT you are saying--I'm telling you that you are wrong. The WISE thing to do is evaluate the opposition's argument and try to logically rebuttal. But I guess that basic skill is lost on you. That, or you just like maintaining ignorance.

Quote:
If you're spending that much time thinking about someone's sexuality, then you're wasting time.


That I agree on, which is precisely one of the reasons why I don't think segregated bathrooms matter.
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#43 Dec 19 2010 at 9:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory wrote:
Maybe Bard will take one for the team.
I've already serviced a serviceman. Not sure what more you want me to do.
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#44 Dec 19 2010 at 9:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:

Because you have no proof, you're just stereotyping. I would have bet $100 that this chick in my class was ***** with her friend and apparently I was wrong. I didn't treat her differently because I thought she was something. There's another guy who acts 120% flamming ***** besides talking to/about women. People still thinks he's a ****, but there isn't any proof to say otherwise. If you're spending that much time thinking about someone's sexuality, then you're wasting time.


Noooo... you're not a homophobe at all!
#45 Dec 19 2010 at 9:33 PM Rating: Good
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My FAVORITE thing about the DADT repeal? How some Republican senators are so ****** off that it passed that they are now going to vote against the treaty with Russia out of spite. Lindsey Graham says she won't support it because she doesn't like democrats forcing votes on issues.

LOL WHAT? You are going to vote against a measure you originally supported because you are angry that the democratic congress is trying to vote on issues before we have a lame duck gov't on our hands?

Gotta love America.

:/
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#46 Dec 19 2010 at 10:10 PM Rating: Excellent
Almalieque wrote:
I made the connection by telling you it's the same as with women. If you want a better explanation, why don't you ask a woman who doesn't approve with showering with random men why she feels that way. I have no problem with that idea. Throw everybody together in the shower, I don't care...
Oh, so the privacy isn't actually your argument then. I don't see the connection making the same as with women, please explain how this is.

Almalieque wrote:
Sir X wrote:
I don't see this as being a significant distinction. If you know someone is ***, then your attitude towards them shouldn't be different if they have explicitly admitted it. I don't buy that somehow them being allowed to admit it magically changes the way people think about a person.
Because you have no proof, you're just stereotyping. I would have bet $100 that this chick in my class was ***** with her friend and apparently I was wrong. I didn't treat her differently because I thought she was something. There's another guy who acts 120% flamming ***** besides talking to/about women. People still thinks he's a ****, but there isn't any proof to say otherwise. If you're spending that much time thinking about someone's sexuality, then you're wasting time.
If you didn't treat someone differently based on what you thought about them, why would what you thought being true or not change how you treat someone?

Edited, Dec 19th 2010 10:10pm by Xsarus
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#47 Dec 19 2010 at 10:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Good job lame duck session. Like de-segregation of the military, just one necessary step to take.
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Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#48 Dec 19 2010 at 10:59 PM Rating: Excellent
idiggory wrote:
Lindsey Graham says she won't support it because she doesn't like democrats forcing votes on issues.


Lindsey Graham's a dude. Granted, he has a girl's name, a southern accent, lacks ********** & fits the whole "christian conservative whom bangs male hookers but isn't really ***" profile so i can see how that would confuse you.

Screenshot


And Alma thinks gays are icky, which is fine as it is his right to do so. There is no need to "argue" with him about other reasons why he doesn't support DADT repeal, as the "Alma thinks Gays are icky" is the root cause & everything else is BS.

So please stop.
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#49 Dec 20 2010 at 5:40 AM Rating: Good
Gurue
*****
16,299 posts
Omegavegeta wrote:


And Alma thinks gays are icky, which is fine as it is his right to do so. There is no need to "argue" with him about other reasons why he doesn't support DADT repeal, as the "Alma thinks Gays are icky" is the root cause & everything else is BS.

So please stop.


Um, no.
#50 Dec 20 2010 at 5:46 AM Rating: Excellent
Soulless Internet Tiger
******
35,348 posts
Jophiel wrote:
Canada, [...] ****, practically every other military on earth worth mentioning has figured out how to make it work. I'm sure we'll figure it out somehow.
Something's wrong with this.

Edited, Dec 20th 2010 8:19am by Uglysasquatch
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#51 Dec 20 2010 at 6:05 AM Rating: Excellent
Sniping Sweetpea
*****
18,463 posts
Omegavegeta wrote:


And Alma thinks gays are icky, which is fine as it is his right to do so. There is no need to "argue" with him about other reasons why he doesn't support DADT repeal, as the "Alma thinks Gays are icky" is the root cause & everything else is BS.

So please stop.


Whoa, sparklepony. Who died and made you Alla? I find it humorous that you are asking for a halt to upstanding debate (if you can call taunting a moran debate, which in here, you certainly can) when you yourself are sitting in the back of the metaphorical point bus.

The focus of his argument is the total lack of comprehension of what constitutes an enforceable policy or law vs. public ideology. Someone can think all day long that brown people are lawnmowing jobstealers who shoot out anchor babies like fireworks, but as long as they don't violate a policy or break a law by doing so, then I have jacksh*t to say about it. You can't regulate thought, so the fact that anyone thinks that gays are icky is FUCKING POINTLESS.

Suck it up, 'men'. Be happy that thinking some chick has a hot *** and you'd like to hit that won't get you accused of rape. Hooray, freedom from oppression.

Edit: @#%^ing filter



Edited, Dec 20th 2010 6:09am by Atomicflea
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I was lookin' for
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if you're lookin', ho

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