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#277 Jun 30 2010 at 8:41 AM Rating: Decent
Ash,

I'm not against people doing what they want. I'm against our govn being forced to openly accept such behaviour.

If you want to have gay or incestual sex go for it, in the privacy of your own home. Don't come to the govn and force them to say this behaviour is normal and not harmful to society as a whole.

#278 Jun 30 2010 at 8:48 AM Rating: Good
gbaji wrote:
Are common law marriages imposed on same sex couples? Why not?


I know it's a bit back, but the ignorance here rubs me wrong, so here's your answer:

...because you can't impose something that's willfully entered into? Common law marriages require both parties to hold themselves to the public as married. It's not like the gub'ment comes down, thwacks two people with a stick and says, "HA! You're married!"

So, the answer to your question is: Same sex couples can't have a common law marriage in their state if it doesn't recognize gay marriage normally.
#279 Jun 30 2010 at 9:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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Besides which, during any periods where common law marriage was being "imposed", homosexuality was illegal anyway.

These days, only a few states recognize common law marriage and it's always a voluntary choice on the part of the participants.
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Belkira wrote:
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#280 Jun 30 2010 at 9:02 AM Rating: Decent
knoxxsouthy wrote:
Ash,

I'm not against people doing what they want. I'm against our govn being forced to openly accept such behaviour.


A married man and his wife may engage in **** sex 3 times a day if they want. Nobody questions it. Surely you don't think two men kissing is what spreads the disease, so it must be the ****, right? So why is it so perfectly acceptable for a man/woman couple to engage in it in the privacy of their own home, but not two men?
#281 Jun 30 2010 at 9:02 AM Rating: Good
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knoxxsouthy wrote:
Ash,

I'm not against people doing what they want. I'm against our govn being forced to openly accept such behaviour.

If you want to have gay or incestual sex go for it, in the privacy of your own home. Don't come to the govn and force them to say this behaviour is normal and not harmful to society as a whole.

They have already done this by legalizing "this behavior" to begin with. Er, except for the incest bit. That's still illegal, and for a genuine medical reason.
#282 Jun 30 2010 at 9:14 AM Rating: Good
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knoxxsouthy wrote:
We don't accept beastiality, incest, and homosexuality is in the same category as these other two.
Do explain.
#283 Jun 30 2010 at 9:28 AM Rating: Decent
Ash,

And homosexuality used to be illegal as well; at least until liberal activist judges decided it shouldn't be.


This is all moot anyway because I've stated time and again the US govn shouldn't be in the marriage business. And that married couples shouldn't receive any benefits that singles don't.

Statistics continually show that people involved in the homosexual lifestyle are far more likely to contract and spread disease. Didn't you wonder why the Bible calls homosexuality an abomination? It's not because God wants to hurt people, it's for protection against the product of such a union.



#284 Jun 30 2010 at 9:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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knoxxsouthy wrote:
at least until liberal activist judges decided it shouldn't be.

Hehehehe
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#285 Jun 30 2010 at 9:46 AM Rating: Good
BrownDuck wrote:
knoxxsouthy wrote:
Ash,

I'm not against people doing what they want. I'm against our govn being forced to openly accept such behaviour.


A married man and his wife may engage in **** sex 3 times a day if they want. Nobody questions it. Surely you don't think two men kissing is what spreads the disease, so it must be the ****, right? So why is it so perfectly acceptable for a man/woman couple to engage in it in the privacy of their own home, but not two men?


Not to mention that two women cannot engage in **** sex, and lesbians are lower on the list of people at risk for STDs than heterosexuals.

When someone says "same-sex marriage," they aren't just talking about two dudes, Varus.

Ashonmytomatoes wrote:
Er, except for the incest bit. That's still illegal, and for a genuine medical reason.


From what I understand, the medical reasons for it are greatly exaggerated.
#286 Jun 30 2010 at 9:55 AM Rating: Good
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Belkira the Tulip wrote:
BrownDuck wrote:
knoxxsouthy wrote:
Ash,

I'm not against people doing what they want. I'm against our govn being forced to openly accept such behaviour.


A married man and his wife may engage in **** sex 3 times a day if they want. Nobody questions it. Surely you don't think two men kissing is what spreads the disease, so it must be the ****, right? So why is it so perfectly acceptable for a man/woman couple to engage in it in the privacy of their own home, but not two men?


Not to mention that two women cannot engage in **** sex, and lesbians are lower on the list of people at risk for STDs than heterosexuals.

When someone says "same-sex marriage," they aren't just talking about two dudes, Varus.

Ashonmytomatoes wrote:
Er, except for the incest bit. That's still illegal, and for a genuine medical reason.


From what I understand, the medical reasons for it are greatly exaggerated.
Recessive genes? The only exaggeration I can imagine is the odds of of occurrence or the odds of any single defect among many occurring. The outcomes range from mild to quite debilitating, though. And I swear we've had this exact exchange before.
#287 Jun 30 2010 at 9:57 AM Rating: Good
AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
Recessive genes? The only exaggeration I can imagine is the odds of of occurrence or the odds of any single defect among many occurring. The outcomes range from mild to quite debilitating, though. And I swear we've had this exact exchange before.


This. Though I'm not terribly well versed in it, it's just what I've come to understand. And if we have had this exchange before, I don't remember it. But that doesn't mean much.
#288 Jun 30 2010 at 12:06 PM Rating: Good
Ah yes, incest. For one generation, it's not a problem. Over many generations, we end up with Charles II of Spain. Fortunately for that particular lineage, he was impotent, and the line died out. You can say they inbred themselves to death.
#289 Jun 30 2010 at 12:18 PM Rating: Good
catwho wrote:
Ah yes, incest. For one generation, it's not a problem. Over many generations, we end up with Charles II of Spain. Fortunately for that particular lineage, he was impotent, and the line died out. You can say they inbred themselves to death.


Ok... but I'm not sure what the odds are that the trend would continue.

I remember a story about a copule who were married and had a few kids. One of them had been adopted as a kid, and he decided to find his biological parents. Well, lookit that. His wife was his sister. So the courts said their marriage wasn't legal, and if I remember correctly, they wanted to take their kids away because they wanted to stay together.
#290 Jun 30 2010 at 12:36 PM Rating: Decent
Cat,

Quote:
Ah yes, incest. For one generation, it's not a problem. Over many generations, we end up with Charles II of Spain. Fortunately for that particular lineage, he was impotent, and the line died


And how many generations does it take for homosexuals to die out?

Smiley: oyvey
#291 Jun 30 2010 at 1:08 PM Rating: Good
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#292 Jun 30 2010 at 1:17 PM Rating: Decent
I want to see the Gore sex poodle video...apparently it's out there. Wonder if this woman will be murdered before it can come out?

And you liberals wanted this guy to be president. Smiley: lol
#293 Jun 30 2010 at 1:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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knoxxsouthy wrote:
I want to see the Gore sex poodle video...apparently it's out there.

Probably filed right next to the Michelle Obama "Whitey" video.
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#294 Jun 30 2010 at 1:46 PM Rating: Good
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knoxxsouthy wrote:
Cat,

Quote:
Ah yes, incest. For one generation, it's not a problem. Over many generations, we end up with Charles II of Spain. Fortunately for that particular lineage, he was impotent, and the line died


And how many generations does it take for homosexuals to die out?

I don't know, we've been puttin' it in poopers for many a millennium.
#295 Jun 30 2010 at 2:40 PM Rating: Decent
knoxxsouthy wrote:
And that married couples shouldn't receive any benefits that singles don't.


Well, at least you're better than Gbaji on that front.

Quote:
Statistics continually show that people involved in the homosexual lifestyle are far more likely to contract and spread disease.


Really? Lesbians are far more likely to contract and spread disease than a heterosexual couple? Cite please.

Quote:
Didn't you wonder why the Bible calls homosexuality an abomination? It's not because God wants to hurt people, it's for protection against the product of such a union.


Ha ha. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha ha...

#296 Jun 30 2010 at 2:41 PM Rating: Good
Bardalicious wrote:
knoxxsouthy wrote:
Cat,

Quote:
Ah yes, incest. For one generation, it's not a problem. Over many generations, we end up with Charles II of Spain. Fortunately for that particular lineage, he was impotent, and the line died


And how many generations does it take for homosexuals to die out?

I don't know, we've been puttin' it in poopers for many a millennium.


Not exclusively. You can stick it in a pooper a thousand times but all it takes is one vjayjay to make more gay.
#297 Jun 30 2010 at 2:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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BrownDuck wrote:
Not exclusively. You can stick it in a pooper a thousand times but all it takes is one vjayjay to make more gay.

And one hell of a yeast infection.
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#298 Jun 30 2010 at 3:07 PM Rating: Default
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BrownDuck wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Unless you mean a contract that isn't legally recognized as being a marriage contract but one which you feel is good enough.


I'm thinking he seriously believes that is acceptable, which is why I quoted the California code which clearly states that "consent alone does not constitute marriage. Consent must be followed by the issuance of a license and solemnization as authorized by this division...", nullifying any such declaration by Gbaji to the contrary


You've shown that you don't understand what a homonym is. The "marriage" defined in the California legal code is not the same "marriage" which someone has a fundamental right to. If tomorrow, the California state legislature were to create a new law defining a state benefit for diabetics which they unfortunately labeled "life", and set prerequisites on what you must do to qualify for "life", would you argue that since you have a fundamental "right to life" that it's a violation of your rights for you not to qualify for the state status of the same name?

That would be silly. And so is your entire argument.


A marriage is an agreement between two people to share their lives together. This agreement may be formalized in some manner, perhaps via a contract which can be legally enforceable. The state could then further define a specific marriage contract which, if entered into and other conditions are met, would grant the couple benefits. When we speak of the "right to marry", we're talking about the first type. Certainly, that was the issue in Loving v Virginia. It was actually a felony for the couple to live together as a married couple, even absent any "official" marriage documents. We might even extend that right to include the right to formalize the agreement with a contract and say that if the state bars someone from entering into said contract that this violated their "right to marry".


But only the most obtuse would suggest that the only way to enjoy a right to marry is if you are not just allowed to enter into a specific marriage contract, but are also rewarded by the state for doing so. This is the huge glaring flaw in the argument most of you are making. Marriage is not the benefits. It's the relationship itself. If the state bars you from having the relationship, then your right to marry is being infringed. Failing to reward you is *not* a violation of your rights. Why is this so hard to understand?
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#299 Jun 30 2010 at 3:12 PM Rating: Default
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catwho wrote:
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And before you say it: Yes. I'm aware that some heterosexual couples wont have children. And if you can find an efficient and inexpensive way to detect which ones will and which ones wont before the fact and in a manner which wont constitute a discouragement to marriage then I would be more than happy to change our laws to further restrict which couples can receive those marriage benefits.


@#%^ you 20 ways til Sunday for saying I shouldn't have gotten married.


Marriage benefits != Marriage.

I guess I just have to keep saying this over and over.


Answer this question: If the state did not have a defined legal status called "marriage", and did not grant benefits to those couples who meet it's criteria, would you still be able to "get married"? If your answer is "no", then are you saying that everyone who lived prior to the creation of those laws were not really married? Their marriages didn't count? Isn't your argument silly?
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#300 Jun 30 2010 at 3:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
The "marriage" defined in the California legal code is not the same "marriage" which someone has a fundamental right to.

Of course it is. Or rather, state recognized legal marriage is. What do you think the legal findings (including a fundamental right to marriage) were about? Telling the couples they could just do a happy dance and call themselves married and that would be good enough?

Funny that you can type so many words and just be wrong throughout the entire thing.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#301 Jun 30 2010 at 3:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
If the state did not have a defined legal status called "marriage", and did not grant benefits to those couples who meet it's criteria, would you still be able to "get married"?

Legally and in a state recognized manner? Nope.

Quote:
are you saying that everyone who lived prior to the creation of those laws were not really married?

Not in the eyes of the US government and its associated states (assuming a US that didn't recognize any state of marriage). Which is what this legal battle is about.

Again, this isn't about just calling yourself married, it's about the legal status of marriage as applied by the government. One which the courts already stated we have a fundamental right to. Hence the whole "going through the courts of the United States legal system" thing.


Edited, Jun 30th 2010 4:24pm by Jophiel
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