Scientists conclude it was the egg
Chicken and egg debate unscrambled
Egg came first, 'eggsperts' agree
Friday, May 26, 2006; Posted: 7:33 a.m. EDT (11:33 GMT)
LONDON, England -- It's a question that has baffled scientists, academics and pub bores through the ages: What came first, the chicken or the egg?
Now a team made up of a geneticist, philosopher and chicken farmer claim to have found an answer. It was the egg.
Put simply, the reason is down to the fact that genetic material does not change during an animal's life.
Therefore the first bird that evolved into what we would call a chicken, probably in prehistoric times, must have first existed as an embryo inside an egg.
Professor John Brookfield, a specialist in evolutionary genetics at the University of Nottingham, told the UK Press Association the pecking order was clear.
The living organism inside the eggshell would have had the same DNA as the chicken it would develop into, he said.
"Therefore, the first living thing which we could say unequivocally was a member of the species would be this first egg," he added. "So, I would conclude that the egg came first."
The same conclusion was reached by his fellow "eggsperts" Professor David Papineau, of King's College London, and poultry farmer Charles Bourns.
Mr Papineau, an expert in the philosophy of science, agreed that the first chicken came from an egg and that proves there were chicken eggs before chickens.
He told PA people were mistaken if they argued that the mutant egg belonged to the "non-chicken" bird parents.
"I would argue it is a chicken egg if it has a chicken in it," he said.
"If a kangaroo laid an egg from which an ostrich hatched, that would surely be an ostrich egg, not a kangaroo egg."
Bourns, chairman of trade body Great British Chicken, said he was also firmly in the pro-egg camp.
He said: "Eggs were around long before the first chicken arrived. Of course, they may not have been chicken eggs as we see them today, but they were eggs."
The debate, which may come as a relief to those with argumentative relatives, was organized by Disney to promote the release of the film "Chicken Little" on DVD.
Now Im in the mood for a ham and egg sandwich
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What came first? Chicken or egg?Follow
I'll take one also please!
So now the question is who the hell sat on that egg?
I think I'll have a soft-boiled egg.
"I have lost my way
But I hear a tale
About a heaven in Alberta
Where they've got all hell for a basement"
But I hear a tale
About a heaven in Alberta
Where they've got all hell for a basement"
This is easy question. Only a chicken can lay a chicken egg, so obviously a chicken came first. Now the thing that layed the egg that the chicken came out of was not a chicken. It wasen't evolved enough to be a chicken but its offspring was. So the chicken came before the chicken egg.
Now if you just want egg entirely. Obviously the first egg was layed long before the first chicken evolved.
This is sort of like are we awake or is this just someone's really messed up dream. How can you be sure either way. You just might be nothing more then a mere pawn in someone elses delusion.
Now if you just want egg entirely. Obviously the first egg was layed long before the first chicken evolved.
This is sort of like are we awake or is this just someone's really messed up dream. How can you be sure either way. You just might be nothing more then a mere pawn in someone elses delusion.
SupremeTrollKing wrote:
This is easy question. Only a chicken can lay a chicken egg, so obviously a chicken came first. Now the thing that layed the egg that the chicken came out of was not a chicken. It wasen't evolved enough to be a chicken but its offspring was. So the chicken came before the chicken egg.
Now if you just want egg entirely. Obviously the first egg was layed long before the first chicken evolved.
This is sort of like are we awake or is this just someone's really messed up dream. How can you be sure either way. You just might be nothing more then a mere pawn in someone elses delusion.
Now if you just want egg entirely. Obviously the first egg was layed long before the first chicken evolved.
This is sort of like are we awake or is this just someone's really messed up dream. How can you be sure either way. You just might be nothing more then a mere pawn in someone elses delusion.
Mr Papineau, an expert in the philosophy of science, agreed that the first chicken came from an egg and that proves there were chicken eggs before chickens.
He told PA people were mistaken if they argued that the mutant egg belonged to the "non-chicken" bird parents.
"I would argue it is a chicken egg if it has a chicken in it," he said.
"If a kangaroo laid an egg from which an ostrich hatched, that would surely be an ostrich egg, not a kangaroo egg."
Quote:
Put simply, the reason is down to the fact that genetic material does not change during an animal's life.
Then how did anything evolve into a chicken at all? And How can there be an egg first if there was noting to reproduce? I see what the article is saying, that some animal layed a chicken egg, but if they say the DNA doesn't change, how could that have possibly happened?
the key word is the animals life. During conception, the genetic code is still being created and combined for that life form, combining the DNA of the parents. During that time, the DNA can change or mutate. Look at birth defects of human children. You can have two healthy parents that still produce a child with problems, created during some sort of mutation while they were in the uterus. So it is quite feasible for two non chicken parents to have an egg that mutated into what we now know as the chicken
Am I the only one that knew all of this BEFORE those dumba$$ scientists?
I mean...cmon, of COURSE the first chicken ("evolved" from some other form of bird) had to come from an egg.
I thought that wasn't the question. I thought it was something along the lines of some land mammal giving birth to a chicken, which then could have given birth to more chickens through the egg system, or whether somehow, a mammal laid an egg that became the first chicken.
If ALL chickens come from eggs (which seems to have been the case throughout history) why was this question EVER a valid one?
I mean...cmon, of COURSE the first chicken ("evolved" from some other form of bird) had to come from an egg.
I thought that wasn't the question. I thought it was something along the lines of some land mammal giving birth to a chicken, which then could have given birth to more chickens through the egg system, or whether somehow, a mammal laid an egg that became the first chicken.
If ALL chickens come from eggs (which seems to have been the case throughout history) why was this question EVER a valid one?
Ummm, actually it's pretty obvious.
There were things that laid eggs long before there were chickens.
There were things that laid eggs long before there were chickens.
Im along with roller on this one. It was never a question.
What came first: The chicken or the egg?
If you believe in evolution, the egg definitively came first.
If you believe in creationism, the chicken came first.
Any other theories of creation/evolution or inbetween can be solved along the same lines.
I guess these scientists just needed something to boost their ego a bit more.
What came first: The chicken or the egg?
If you believe in evolution, the egg definitively came first.
If you believe in creationism, the chicken came first.
Any other theories of creation/evolution or inbetween can be solved along the same lines.
I guess these scientists just needed something to boost their ego a bit more.
The following is an excerpt from the encyclopedia galactica, which was PM'd to me from the future:
The mystery of the chicken vs. Egg debate was finally solved in the year 2487 by amateur chronologist and poultry lover Seamus O'shay-biloorb who traveled back in time to the late pre Cambrian to visit the first chicken with his beloved pet chicken Ruthie. During their trip, Seamus was attacked and later eaten by a saber tooth muskrat. Ruthie safely escaped back to the time device and was somehow able to operate the controls to return to the future, however not before accidentally laying a chicken egg behind a clump of prehistoric ferns, thus changing the time line to ensure that chickens would eventually exist. Prior to that event, post chronologic temporal shift lapse photographs of the period indicate chickens were actually mutated lizard rat terriers with floppy ears.
The mystery remains though, how was the first chicken egg fertilized without any chickens around?
The world may never know.
The mystery of the chicken vs. Egg debate was finally solved in the year 2487 by amateur chronologist and poultry lover Seamus O'shay-biloorb who traveled back in time to the late pre Cambrian to visit the first chicken with his beloved pet chicken Ruthie. During their trip, Seamus was attacked and later eaten by a saber tooth muskrat. Ruthie safely escaped back to the time device and was somehow able to operate the controls to return to the future, however not before accidentally laying a chicken egg behind a clump of prehistoric ferns, thus changing the time line to ensure that chickens would eventually exist. Prior to that event, post chronologic temporal shift lapse photographs of the period indicate chickens were actually mutated lizard rat terriers with floppy ears.
The mystery remains though, how was the first chicken egg fertilized without any chickens around?
The world may never know.
Arch Duke Kaolian Drachensborn, lvl 95 Ranger, Unrest Server
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Kao, I have been waiting on your response, and you made me smile.
TStephens wrote:
Ummm, actually it's pretty obvious.
There were things that laid eggs long before there were chickens.
There were things that laid eggs long before there were chickens.
Just because there were creatures that laid eggs before there were ever chickens, doesn't mean a chicken could've come first. That chicken MUST have come from one of those egg laying creature's eggs.
Quote:
"If a kangaroo laid an egg from which an ostrich hatched, that would surely be an ostrich egg, not a kangaroo egg."
Are you really going to put a lot of stock in the opinions of a guy who thinks kangaroos lay eggs?
Quote:
What came first? Chicken or egg?
Proto-chicken. Duh.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
This reminds me of something I heard about cuckoo's that sometimes lay thier eggs in other birds nest so they don't have to raise it and can lay more eggs. The baby cuckoo's eat all the food, and the surrogate parents are too stupid to realize its not thier baby.
Dread Lord Monique wrote:
/swish <thwock>
There can be only one!
Arch Duke Kaolian Drachensborn, lvl 95 Ranger, Unrest Server
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Sorry it was too late to change my login to Roberts. Such a great movie. Just so you know your thwack only made me mostly dead.
Edited, Sat May 27 18:08:17 2006 by Monique
Edited, Sat May 27 18:08:17 2006 by Monique
Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
My name is Kaolian McKaolian of the clan McKaolian.
I was born in the Highlands of Vancouver in 1547, and I can not be sub-defaulted.
I was born in the Highlands of Vancouver in 1547, and I can not be sub-defaulted.
"I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left" - Seasick Steve
Quote:
(I don't give a rat's *** about creationism, I'm going on science here).
lol. both require too much faith for me to really believe in any of them.
I always knew it was the egg. Don't you know you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs?
Quote:
This question appears regularly in the question file, so let's take a shot at it.
In nature, living things evolve through changes in their DNA. In an animal like a chicken, DNA from a male sperm cell and a female ovum meet and combine to form a zygote -- the first cell of a new baby chicken. This first cell divides innumerable times to form all of the cells of the complete animal. In any animal, every cell contains exactly the same DNA, and that DNA comes from the zygote.
Chickens evolved from non-chickens through small changes caused by the mixing of male and female DNA or by mutations to the DNA that produced the zygote. These changes and mutations only have an effect at the point where a new zygote is created. That is, two non-chickens mated and the DNA in their new zygote contained the mutation(s) that produced the first true chicken. That one zygote cell divided to produce the first true chicken.
Prior to that first true chicken zygote, there were only non-chickens. The zygote cell is the only place where DNA mutations could produce a new animal, and the zygote cell is housed in the chicken's egg. So, the egg must have come first.
In nature, living things evolve through changes in their DNA. In an animal like a chicken, DNA from a male sperm cell and a female ovum meet and combine to form a zygote -- the first cell of a new baby chicken. This first cell divides innumerable times to form all of the cells of the complete animal. In any animal, every cell contains exactly the same DNA, and that DNA comes from the zygote.
Chickens evolved from non-chickens through small changes caused by the mixing of male and female DNA or by mutations to the DNA that produced the zygote. These changes and mutations only have an effect at the point where a new zygote is created. That is, two non-chickens mated and the DNA in their new zygote contained the mutation(s) that produced the first true chicken. That one zygote cell divided to produce the first true chicken.
Prior to that first true chicken zygote, there were only non-chickens. The zygote cell is the only place where DNA mutations could produce a new animal, and the zygote cell is housed in the chicken's egg. So, the egg must have come first.
here
Edited, Sun May 28 05:38:54 2006 by Zurckoneos
'Swhat I said. Proto-chickens.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
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