616*
That seems to be the number Bonds would have put up if he weren't juiced to his eyeballs. Note that that is an impressive number in and of itself, but due to an unexplained need for love/admiration/fame/acceptance/whatever, he put a veritable pharmacopia in his veins.
It's too bad. In a different universe he'd be revered and idolized. As it is, he's just considered an freakish a$$hole.
Totem
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Interesting article on Barry Bonds' home run record chaseFollow
Kinda like me...
Totem
Totem
Innocence is presumed until proven guilty.
it's amazing how he's chasing this record and noone seems to even care. usually the media plays this to death, but in this case it's just a passing story.
Heh, Moeb, you must be one of the last three Barry Bonds holdouts in the world who actually believe he somehow managed to hold off-- nay, negate the effects of aging and blasted his way to 714* home runs by hard work and weight training.
By the way, isn't it past your scheduled time for you to apply some of that clear for your complexion and the cream for your muddled thinking?
Totem
By the way, isn't it past your scheduled time for you to apply some of that clear for your complexion and the cream for your muddled thinking?
Totem
Quote:
it's amazing how he's chasing this record and noone seems to even care. usually the media plays this to death, but in this case it's just a passing story.
You must not watch ESPN. They interupt whatever is on to show his at-bats LIVE. Plus they lead off every Sportscenter or Baseball Tonight showing "hightlights" of the most recent Giants game. Although the highlights only really consist of Barry Bonds and his at-bats/horrible fielding.
Ever hear of Sabermetrics? The Society of Baseball Research does plain old number crunching of baseball statistics of all sorts. They're geeks, basically.
Their current thinking is that steroids can help other types of athletic performance - fielding, in particular - but hitting, and particularly home runs, not so much. In effect, they seem to think it doesn't matter one way or another.
The increase in hitting performance, and home run performance, over the last decade or so has more to do with expansion teams. The talent, most appreciably the pitching and fielding talent, has been spread thinner overall, leaving good hitters with a lot of weak pitchers and outfielders with whom to contend.
Anyway if you like statistics and baseball, it's a fun book.
Their current thinking is that steroids can help other types of athletic performance - fielding, in particular - but hitting, and particularly home runs, not so much. In effect, they seem to think it doesn't matter one way or another.
The increase in hitting performance, and home run performance, over the last decade or so has more to do with expansion teams. The talent, most appreciably the pitching and fielding talent, has been spread thinner overall, leaving good hitters with a lot of weak pitchers and outfielders with whom to contend.
Anyway if you like statistics and baseball, it's a fun book.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
Make that 4, since I don't think he took steroids. They police that stuff so much they'd have to develop something new every week. They just can't do that.
And whos to say that babe ruth might not have been on something? They didn't police that back then.
If your going to make a point on something, try to remember the other half. I wouldn't be suprised if babe ruth used some kind of drug to help him swing better.
And whos to say that babe ruth might not have been on something? They didn't police that back then.
If your going to make a point on something, try to remember the other half. I wouldn't be suprised if babe ruth used some kind of drug to help him swing better.
Darkenbudddy, Eater of Souls wrote:
I wouldn't be suprised if babe ruth used some kind of drug to help him swing better.
I personally think he may be juicing, but I agree that until he's proven to be juicing, we can't pass judgment, nor put a * by his stats.
If he mans up and admits it like McGuire did, then his record can be taken away, and he should be banned from baseball for life.
Seems fair to me.
If he mans up and admits it like McGuire did, then his record can be taken away, and he should be banned from baseball for life.
Seems fair to me.
I'm sorry, Darken, but you must have accidentily stumbled into the Enlightened and Seeing-The-World-With-Both-Eyes-Open forum by mistake. The forum you are looking for, The-Hopelessly-Naive is located in the OOT.
Just close the door quietly behind you on your way out, please. There are other here trying to hold a serious discussion and the noise throws them off their game.
Totem
Just close the door quietly behind you on your way out, please. There are other here trying to hold a serious discussion and the noise throws them off their game.
Totem
Quote:
And whos to say that babe ruth might not have been on something? They didn't police that back then.
Did they even HAVE anabolic steroids back then?
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
Samira wrote:
Quote:
And whos to say that babe ruth might not have been on something? They didn't police that back then.
Did they even HAVE anabolic steroids back then?
No. The first anabolic steroid was testosterone, which didn't really get developed until the mid 1930's. The only juice the Babe was on was booze.
Some people are like slinkies, they aren't really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
Samira wrote:
Ever hear of Sabermetrics? The Society of Baseball Research does plain old number crunching of baseball statistics of all sorts. They're geeks, basically.
Their current thinking is that steroids can help other types of athletic performance - fielding, in particular - but hitting, and particularly home runs, not so much. In effect, they seem to think it doesn't matter one way or another.
The increase in hitting performance, and home run performance, over the last decade or so has more to do with expansion teams. The talent, most appreciably the pitching and fielding talent, has been spread thinner overall, leaving good hitters with a lot of weak pitchers and outfielders with whom to contend.
Anyway if you like statistics and baseball, it's a fun book.
Their current thinking is that steroids can help other types of athletic performance - fielding, in particular - but hitting, and particularly home runs, not so much. In effect, they seem to think it doesn't matter one way or another.
The increase in hitting performance, and home run performance, over the last decade or so has more to do with expansion teams. The talent, most appreciably the pitching and fielding talent, has been spread thinner overall, leaving good hitters with a lot of weak pitchers and outfielders with whom to contend.
Anyway if you like statistics and baseball, it's a fun book.
I've heard that argument before, mostly by naive baseball fans who will cling to any slim hope that their sport hasn't been tainted.
They believe that steroid use doesn't affect home runs because home runs are "more about swing mechanics" than raw power. But common sense should tell you that the increased muscle will turn what would otherwise be a fly out into a ball that clears the fence.
While steroids won't give you a good swing, they'll help a good hitter pack their punch. The absurdity of McGwire's and Bond's record-setting seasons are good enough indication of that.
Edited, Tue May 23 12:50:39 2006 by Eske
Edited, Tue May 23 12:44:14 2006 by Eske
Quote:
But common sense should tell you that the increased muscle will turn what would otherwise be a fly out into a ball that clears the fence.
While steroids won't give you a good swing, they'll help a good hitter pack their punch. The absurdity of McGwire's and Bond's record-setting seasons are good enough indication of that.
While steroids won't give you a good swing, they'll help a good hitter pack their punch. The absurdity of McGwire's and Bond's record-setting seasons are good enough indication of that.
Common sense is usually neither.
Read the book. If nothing else it'll give you something to chew on and something new to argue about - but there are other factors at play (so to speak) in baseball over the last couple of decades besides steroid use.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
Samira wrote:
Quote:
But common sense should tell you that the increased muscle will turn what would otherwise be a fly out into a ball that clears the fence.
While steroids won't give you a good swing, they'll help a good hitter pack their punch. The absurdity of McGwire's and Bond's record-setting seasons are good enough indication of that.
While steroids won't give you a good swing, they'll help a good hitter pack their punch. The absurdity of McGwire's and Bond's record-setting seasons are good enough indication of that.
Common sense is usually neither.
Read the book. If nothing else it'll give you something to chew on and something new to argue about - but there are other factors at play (so to speak) in baseball over the last couple of decades besides steroid use.
Oh, there are a ton. Smaller parks, shorter mounds, better bats, etc. etc. Even seemingly minor details affect it, like Bond's arm guard, which allows him to crowd the plate better.
But they're all weak explanations that foresake the obvious. The turnaround that Bond's and McGwire had can't be accounted for by them.
It does look like an interesting book though. I have a friend who might enjoy it. He's a baseball fan and an engineer. Loves baseball, statistics and arguing, heh.
Edited, Tue May 23 13:20:55 2006 by Eske
If Bonds were a good natured white guy this article wouldn't exist.
Discuss.
Discuss.
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
You want to know what's funny about this whole thing? It's not like players haven't cheated before. There was and era where people slopped spit on the ball. After that was ruled as foul play, people stopped. Corked bats were common at one time or another. Cheating has been going on in baseball for years and no one has ever complained so much. The guy has an amazing eye and swing. Tony Gwin, who has arguably one of the best eyes in baseball, has even said that Bonds sees the ball better than he ever did.
Pete Rose should be inducted also!
Pete Rose should be inducted also!
Smasharoo wrote:
If Bonds were a good natured white guy this article wouldn't exist.
Discuss.
Discuss.
No.
There's considerable evidence that Ty Cobb cheated in various ways, and he was rarely if ever called on it.
Granted, he wasn't good natured at all - in fact, fear may have been a factor in letting his transgressions slide, since he probably would have beat the hell out of any sports writer who called him out.
Granted, he wasn't good natured at all - in fact, fear may have been a factor in letting his transgressions slide, since he probably would have beat the hell out of any sports writer who called him out.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
Granted, he wasn't good natured at all - in fact, fear may have been a factor in letting his transgressions slide, since he probably would have beat the hell out of any sports writer who called him out.
Good point. Maybe if Bonds killed a few maids he'd get more respect from the writers.
Disclaimer:
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.
Exactly!
Yet he still goes down in baseball history as one of the greats. He was an even bigger prick than Bonds too, which is arguably Bonds worst quality.
Yet he still goes down in baseball history as one of the greats. He was an even bigger prick than Bonds too, which is arguably Bonds worst quality.
By the way, during the federal investigation into the Balco case, Bonds admitting to using both the "clear" and the "cream", but he said that at the time he did not know what they were. That was during his 73 home run season. So he did use them, just didn't know about it. 
And just as a side note, it is actualy fairly easy to beat those drug tests. HAving been tested as an athlete since 1994, and working with both the USOC and USADA, it is actually disheartening to know how easy it is to use steriods, HGH, etc... and not get caught. And baseball's testing program is even weaker than the IOC's. Hence, no baseball in the Olympics ( one of the reasons anyway)
And just as a side note, it is actualy fairly easy to beat those drug tests. HAving been tested as an athlete since 1994, and working with both the USOC and USADA, it is actually disheartening to know how easy it is to use steriods, HGH, etc... and not get caught. And baseball's testing program is even weaker than the IOC's. Hence, no baseball in the Olympics ( one of the reasons anyway)
I was under the impression that baseball didn't even regulate who or what their players were using until recently.
Yes, that is true. One of the things the IOC told baseball, was that their drug policy needed to be more along the lines if USADA if they wanted to stay in the Olympics.
And they did test for other drugs, hence the reason Strawberry and Howe got suspended 7 times each.
And they did test for other drugs, hence the reason Strawberry and Howe got suspended 7 times each.
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