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#27 May 01 2006 at 11:19 AM Rating: Good
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I'll make sure to remind you of this any time a Pubbie gets elected to office or any decision you disagree with is taken by someone who got there via a majority vote. Unusually weak sauce, Moe

Please do. I don't form opinions on polling numbers, nor should anyone in power. I'm not trying to use "sauce" in this thread. I am attempting to have an intelligent discussion and am accomodating myself accordingly.
#28 May 01 2006 at 12:38 PM Rating: Good
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His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:

Please do. I don't form opinions on polling numbers, nor should anyone in power. I'm not trying to use "sauce" in this thread. I am attempting to have an intelligent discussion and am accomodating myself accordingly.

You're missing the point. I'm not asking about personal opinions, I'm talking about image overhaul. PR. Spin. Disagreeing with the polls is one thing, but you can't deny what they show.

I forget which kind of logical fallacy that is... Ad Hominem?Ad Hominem?

Edited, Mon May 1 13:41:24 2006 by Atomicflea
#29 May 01 2006 at 12:49 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
You're missing the point. I'm not asking about personal opinions, I'm talking about image overhaul. PR. Spin. Disagreeing with the polls is one thing, but you can't deny what they show.

How am I ignoring what the poll says? I acknowledged and explained what the poll says. When your sample is of flawed data, your result must be eronious. It would be the same if there was a 30 point shift the other way. I am not disagreeing with the poll in any way shape or form. I am debunking the poll and it's (their) legitimacy.

It is indeed an Ad Hominem argument, but a valid use of such as I make no particular judgement of the outcome of the poll, rather the sampling set used to procure the data. Always remember, Flea, I'm smarter than you are. Nothing personal.
#30 May 01 2006 at 12:58 PM Rating: Good
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His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
It is indeed an Ad Hominem argument, but a valid use of such as I make no particular judgement of the outcome of the poll, rather the sampling set used to procure the data. Always remember, Flea, I'm smarter than you are. Nothing personal.

According to you, I can discount that assertion based entirely on my derision of its source. Win-win!!! Smiley: laugh
#31 May 01 2006 at 1:06 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
According to you, I can discount that assertion based entirely on my derision of its source. Win-win!!!

You can do whatever you like, with impunity. You're a liberal.
#32 May 01 2006 at 1:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
When your sample is of flawed data, your result must be eronious.
It was a poll of public perception and opinion. Provided you have an accurate sample of the nation and your questions are sound, there's no real error to be had. There's nothing factual to be wrong about (i.e. "Does Bush have an eleventh toe?"), you're polling straight up opinion regardless of whether that opinion is based in research or in the glitter of shiney objects.
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#33 May 01 2006 at 1:09 PM Rating: Good
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His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
Quote:
According to you, I can discount that assertion based entirely on my derision of its source. Win-win!!!

You can do whatever you like, with impunity. You're a liberal.
I don't believe you because you're a Pubbie.

No fuss, no muss. I could do this all day!
#34 May 01 2006 at 1:12 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
It was a poll of public perception and opinion.

Exactly. And since the vast, vast, majority of the American public is comprised of nothing but blithering idiots, it is flawed. The simple idea that they are entitled to their opinions does not, in any way, suggest that they are accurate. Also, as they are almost entirely retarded anyway, the validity of said opinions must be questioned in any case.
#35 May 01 2006 at 1:13 PM Rating: Good
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I don't believe you because you're a Pubbie.

And now we sound like congress.

Any chance we can get back to the original question?
#36 May 01 2006 at 1:19 PM Rating: Good
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His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
Bullsh[black][/black]it and spin

Now we really sound like Congress!

I was trying to get you to address the OP, but it's hard when you would rather compose a lengthy, wordy Gbaji-esque diatribe about why The American Public's opinion has no weight (as far as you're concerned) instead of just saying "Well, I don't think there is an image problem, so I don't see the need for any PR."


#37 May 01 2006 at 1:24 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
"Well, I don't think there is an image problem, so I don't see the need for any PR."

Sorry, for those of you not able to read between the lines and pick out the obviously implied...

I think the image problem revolves around the fact that most Americans are retarded. I don't value their opinions, and don't believe that said opinions will be reflected in the polls come November.

Now, the more important question, why must you people find fault with the little things and ignore all the wonderful things that the President and the Republican Congress have done for the economy?
#38 May 01 2006 at 1:25 PM Rating: Default
Like?

Edit: It's ok Moe to be a total rate-down ***** without answering the question. I understand if you become flacid when actually called out on your ******** comment.

Edited, Tue May 2 12:38:45 2006 by Kaelesh
#39 May 01 2006 at 1:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
Exactly. And since the vast, vast, majority of the American public is comprised of nothing but blithering idiots, it is flawed.
Not at all. It may be a completely accurate depiction of the opinions of people you consider to be blithering idiots, but it's still completely accurate.

You may discount the results as unimportant, but you can't claim that the results don't accurately reflect public perception.

But I'm sure that, at this point, you're just trolling. You're smarter than your arguments would suggest.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#40 May 01 2006 at 1:27 PM Rating: Good
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His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
why must you people find fault with the little things and ignore all the wonderful things that the President and the Republican Congress have done for the economy?
Because your Presidents (like all of our Prime Ministers) are all cu[Beige][/Beige]nts?
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#41 May 01 2006 at 1:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Let's just remove the middle-man (the President) and put every policy decision to a poll of 1,000 randomly selected registered voters. Then, the same 1,000 people can give themselves a 100% approval rating for their uninformed and impulsive decision. Sound good?



#42 May 01 2006 at 1:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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But I'm sure that, at this point, you're just trolling. You're smarter than your arguments would suggest.

Yeah, everything after this was pretty much gone.
Quote:
And, Flea, the majority of Americans, regardless of who they vote for, are retarded, so numbers on an approval rating pole simply show which side is doing a better job of holding something shiny in front of them. It would be the same if bush had an 80% approval rating.

You're capable of carrying on an intelligent conversation. Flea, on the other hand, warrants little more than rhetorical bullsh;t most days.
#43 May 01 2006 at 1:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
Now, the more important question, why must you people find fault with the little things and ignore all the wonderful things that the President and the Republican Congress have done for the economy?
I don't think that many of the things I mentioned before are "little", but we all make our own decisions on the weight of their importance.

Really, the economy hasn't affected me much one way or the other. I pay about as much in taxes as I used to, my fiscal comfort level is pretty much unchanged and the whole thing hasn't affected me one way or the other. The biggest money issue affecting me is probably energy prices (gasoline and heating) though I don't directly blame Bush for either. You could argue that I'm not taking advantage of it though I am in school at present and working my way along towards a brighter tomorrow. That has little to do with today's economy though. I'm also not thrilled with the whole "cut taxes and expand spending" mode that our Congress is engaged in but, yet again, it's been talked about before.

But you had previously asked explictly about Bush and I kept my remarks confined to him. If we're expanding to include everything the Republican Congress has done and my impressions of it, I can tack a decent amount onto my list of complaints. Smiley: wink2

Edited, Mon May 1 14:43:00 2006 by Jophiel
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#44 May 01 2006 at 1:43 PM Rating: Good
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If we're expanding to include everything the Republican Congress has done and my impressions of it, I can tack a decent amount onto my list of complaints.

I'd be on your side of the fence on a few things were we to get in to that.

Philosophicly, when I look at government, and what they're primaruly responsible for, I seperate it like this:

The President has the most profound impact on the economy and the foreign policy of the country. Everything else, the congress has the most significant impact on.

When guaged within those criteria, I can't figure out why the President has such low approval ratings. I know full well that there are complaints about things that happen in this country, and believe that quite a few of them are valid. But I make more today than I did under Clinton, even adjusted for inflation. I pay less in taxes today without adjusting at all. I believe that we made our own bed with energy and I like the fact that we're in the middle east, but wish we would increase our presence there.
#45 May 01 2006 at 1:50 PM Rating: Good
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His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
You're capable of carrying on an intelligent conversation. Flea, on the other hand, warrants little more than rhetorical bullsh;t most days.

Still trolling? Smiley: laugh If I need rhetorical ********* Moe, I read a Gbaji post. You're what I read when I want "gruff but loveable".

You are the kind that has such rock-solid preconcieved notions of the way the world is packaged that it would be a waste of both of our times for me to try to change it. I just want a straight answer with none of the intellectual jedi-swords you boys seem to enjoy wielding.
#46 May 01 2006 at 1:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's the "Buck Stops Here" mindset. The president is, as we're taught in kindergarten onwards, the leader of the nation. Particularly when, previously in the term, Congress was considered a rubber-stamp to whatever Bush wanted done. Lately there's been a split from that but even that split has left Bush looking awkward because he's asking for one thing and Congress is saying "Hell no" -- see the Dubai port deal or Harriet Meiers.

You can argue if that perception is fair, but I think that's a good deal from it. You also have Congressional measures that Bush actively pushed for such as No Child Left Behind or the Patriot Act. While they were voted in by Congress, they're considered Bush's babies since he campaigned for them so stridently.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#47 May 01 2006 at 1:55 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
You are the kind that has such rock-solid preconcieved notions of the way the world is packaged that it would be a waste of both of our times for me to try to change it.

Bless your little heart.

That's why it does me no good to reply with anything but to a comment or question from you, dahling.
#48 May 01 2006 at 1:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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No Child Left Behind or the Patriot Act

What's wrong with the Patriot Act?
#49 May 01 2006 at 2:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Doesn't matter what I think is wrong with it. If someone does have an issue with it, they're likely to transmit that discontent directly onto their perception of the president.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#50 May 01 2006 at 2:31 PM Rating: Good
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Doesn't matter what I think is wrong with it. If someone does have an issue with it, they're likely to transmit that discontent directly onto their perception of the president.

Yeah, yeah, forget the fact that it was obviously my veiled comment on the No Child Left Behind act.
#51 May 01 2006 at 2:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Color me whooshed Smiley: grin
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
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