"died for our sins"Follow

short form: yes.

Frankly, that was no sacrifice at all.

I mean, its not as if he didn't know that he was going to rise again. Where's the sacrifice? Now if he had willingly given himself up knowing that he'd just be worm meat like the rest of us, well, that would have been different.

But sacrificing your "life" when you know full well that you've got another, perfectly good, life coming to you really isn't so much a sacrifice as it is a nice gesture.

So from now on it really ought to be "Jesus made a nice gesture for our sins".

-The Reverend Doctor Deathwysh.

Jesus went up on the cross knowingly. Jesus died for your sins when he could have chosen not to.

Allowing yourself to die in such a manner would be viewed as suicide by the Old Testament "Stone Cold" God. Now, either God took a good hit of that new stuff all the hippies in the Jesus paintings were passing around and mellowed out, or else Jesus went to hell so you wouldn't have to. Since we all know God isn't a stoner, he did the very thing he asked Abraham to do: sacrificed his own son.

Jesus is burning for your sins, eternally. That's his sacrifice.

If you manage to slip through the gates of Heaven before they swing shut forever, you'll do so because the son of God exists in eternal suffering just so you'd stand a chance of getting in if you chose to do the right things with your life.

Feel better now?

There's a much more pressing issue at hand here.

Who in the FU[/Aqua]CK made that fat a[Bisque]ss Coddy a Scholar?

Not sure if you're being facetious, but if you're being serious, then your Biblical knowledge needs a little brush up.

Supposedly, in the three days before Jesus resurrected, he decended into hell to redeem the "righteous unbelievers," i.e. the Jews who believed in God but hadn't been granted access to Heaven because Jesus had not yet died for their sins (and who could not profess belief in the Christ as the Messiah because he hadn't existed in their lifetimes.)

So all this idea of going to Heaven when you die is a post-Christ concept. Before then, you went to hell to wait until Christ came to get you.

After Christ resurrected, he walked around the earth a bit to show off the wondrous power of God, then ascended into Heaven. Where, it's said, he was so covered in sin from his exposure to the sinners on Earth and in Hell that his dear ol' dad couldn't even bear to look upon him. (I'm not sure where this particular passage is, but some Bible-thumper quoted it to me once.)

All of which reinforces my opinion that, ultimately, God's an as[black][/black]shole. Just ask Job.

"Sorry you lost your wife and family and property and suffered all these plagues, dude, but hey, the Devil was all up in my grill double-dog daring me! And who are you to second-guess me, by the way?"


Or Abraham, for that matter.

"If you love me, you'll kill your kid. I mean it, kill him. Show me you love me. Naaah, just joshin' ya, dude!"



Edited, Fri Apr 14 18:28:55 2006 by Ambrya

The function of Jesus was to make obsolete many of the onerous rules and regulations and rituals of the Old Testament. It was a new covenant between God and everyone, built on the foundation of the old covenant between God and the Jews. Now everyone could participate, and the terrible burdern of Original Sin was not such a heavy load for the followers of Jesus.

Also, I'd like to reiterate an excellent comment made earlier: HOW THE FLYING FU[/blue][/blue]CK IS CODDY A SCHOLAR?!?

I take partial responsibility for that happening. I have been lees that vigilant in my duties as official rate Coddy down dude.


Won't happen again

wow, are you missing the point.

he didnt die for our sins. he forgave us of our sins.

he died to show us that death has no hold on those who follow him and his teachings. he died so he could rise up from the dead to prove that point. the point being his word is binding not just while we are alive, but forever, even after we die.

he died to show our ignorant butts that there is more to our existance than this shell we occupy for a blink of an eye compared to eternity.

he died to show us that what we do and say in this blink of an eye existance also binds us after we leave this world, and where to find the path in this world that will not destroy our eternity in the next.

he died to show us how to save our eternity from the trappings of this world. he died to save us from ourselves.

and he did it because he loves us, and for no other reason. he died to save the people he loved just as surely most parents would die to save their children. the kind of absolute sacrifice that could only come from a father for his children. most fathers anyway.

his word alone forgave us from our sins, not his death. his death was to show us how to live.

Another made up story from the made up religion.

Emporer Contintine's political problems have a lot to answer for.

I hope he kept his receipt.

Well, even according to your link, there's some question by Biblical scholars as to what the passage by St. Peter which refers to Christ “descended into the lower parts of the earth.” Considering the phrase "decended into hell" is used in the Apostle's Creed, which many recite by rote every week of their lives, it's a safe assumption that at least some people found enough Biblical basis to believe this to be the case, even if there are other scholars out there who disagree.



Like I said, I have no idea where this notion came from, but the person in question claimed to have read the Bible cover to cover numerous times, so I'm assuming they have a source they can point to for it. Personally, Christianity loses me with the whole "good deeds are not enough to gain Heaven" concept, so as far as I'm concerned, it's all a lot of hokum.




Well, personally, if I were Job and suffered all that, I don't care how omnipotent you are, I'd want some fu[black]cking answers! And it would take more than a few make-up gifts to get me past the "who are you to question me?" arrogance of the reply he got when he finally despaired and demanded an explanation of God. The idea that a supposedly loving and all-powerful being just blithely allowed someone's life to be destroyed on a point of, essentially, ego, is fairly offputting, no matter what kind of restitution was made afterward.




Sorry, but that's a fu[black][/black]cking ROTTEN practical joke to play, again regardless of the restitution made afterward. Personally, I'd be holding a grudge about it.

But then, this is the admittedly 100% biased view of a woman who believes the Bible is a propaganda document written for the purposes of keeping women subservient and slaves content with their lot.



Edited, Fri Apr 14 19:39:43 2006 by Ambrya

He says he knows who used rate-puppets to do it in this thread. I wish someone would just light his fat on fire and get it over with.

*Shrug*
As I said, your personal feelings aside, the entire point of the book of Job was that Satan said that Job would curse God once things went bad and Job did not. So saying that Job would call God an as[Aqua][/Aqua]shole for it is kind of silly.