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California Prop. 73Follow

#27 Oct 14 2005 at 2:43 PM Rating: Decent
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If I had had to tell my parents, I'd have more than 2 kids right now.

I might not even be here.

In all seriousness, some girls might just rather die than tell their parents.


So what? Life's a ***** some times. It sucks, it's hard, and it's scary.

Quit giving kids an easy way out of dodging responsibility for their actions.

#28 Oct 14 2005 at 2:51 PM Rating: Good
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You ***** about kids having abortions and taking the easy way out and then you ***** about unwed single mothers having to many babies and taking all your income in the form of welfare.



Smiley: oyvey
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#29 Oct 14 2005 at 2:52 PM Rating: Good
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In the UK, the criterion is "informed consent". If the medic believes the patient to be capable of making a genuinely informed decision, they can treat. For routine medical or surgical interventions, the parent is almost always with the patient anyway.

When it comes to sexual health or substance misuse, their judgement factors in the impact of intervening confidentially, versus the repercussions of breaking confidentiality on the patient's overall well-being. If the patient has made a judgement to keep it to themself, there's a reason, and a doc has to assess how reasonable this is.

In the OP, we're usually talking about adolescents or 'young adults'. Each case on its merit. To introduce blunt-instrument legislation appears crass at best.


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#30 Oct 14 2005 at 2:55 PM Rating: Decent
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You ***** about kids having abortions and taking the easy way out and then you ***** about unwed single mothers having to many babies and taking all your income in the form of welfare.



You're right. I am not seeing your point here. Either way, its adds up to be irresponsibility. There is NO excuse (save for the R word) for anyone to get pregnant these days with Planned Parenthood basically putting the condom on for you and tipping a cup of water to wash the birth control pill down your mouth.
#31 Oct 14 2005 at 3:00 PM Rating: Good
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NephthysWanderer the Charming wrote:
Quote:
You ***** about kids having abortions and taking the easy way out and then you ***** about unwed single mothers having to many babies and taking all your income in the form of welfare.



You're right. I am not seeing your point here. Either way, its adds up to be irresponsibility. There is NO excuse (save for the R word) for anyone to get pregnant these days with Planned Parenthood basically putting the condom on for you and tipping a cup of water to wash the birth control pill down your mouth.


Ahh but doctors are refusing to prescribe the pill to girls. Bush has taken money and given it to faith based initiatives to spear head his new "chastity" only sexual education program. The programs that focus on promoting chastity while neglecting safe sex and contraception leads to more babies.

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#32 Oct 14 2005 at 3:03 PM Rating: Decent
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bodhisattva Defender of Justice wrote:
NephthysWanderer the Charming wrote:
Quote:
You ***** about kids having abortions and taking the easy way out and then you ***** about unwed single mothers having to many babies and taking all your income in the form of welfare.



You're right. I am not seeing your point here. Either way, its adds up to be irresponsibility. There is NO excuse (save for the R word) for anyone to get pregnant these days with Planned Parenthood basically putting the condom on for you and tipping a cup of water to wash the birth control pill down your mouth.


Ahh but doctors are refusing to prescribe the pill to girls. Bush has taken money and given it to faith based initiatives to spear head his new "chastity" only sexual education program. The programs that focus on promoting chastity while neglecting safe sex and contraception leads to more babies.



Chastity promotes **** sex and blowjobs.
#33 Oct 14 2005 at 3:07 PM Rating: Good
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fenderputy the Shady wrote:
Chastity promotes **** sex and blowjobs.
You say that like it's a bad thing
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#34 Oct 14 2005 at 3:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Ahh but doctors are refusing to prescribe the pill to girls. Bush has taken money and given it to faith based initiatives to spear head his new "chastity" only sexual education program. The programs that focus on promoting chastity while neglecting safe sex and contraception leads to more babies.


What kind of logic is that? Irresponsible children having more sex leads to more babies. It all cycles back to responsiblity for actions. It is NOT up to government to shoulder this responsibility. It is not for the schools to teach or the congressman legislate. It IS up to the parents of the children.

You want kids to take responsibility for their actions? Hold them accountable.
#35 Oct 14 2005 at 3:10 PM Rating: Decent
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PottyMouth wrote:
fenderputy the Shady wrote:
Chastity promotes **** sex and blowjobs.
You say that like it's a bad thing


Humorously ironic.
#36 Oct 14 2005 at 3:14 PM Rating: Good
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In the UK, the criterion is "informed consent". If the medic believes the patient to be capable of making a genuinely informed decision, they can treat. For routine medical or surgical interventions, the parent is almost always with the patient anyway.

When it comes to sexual health or substance misuse, their judgement factors in the impact of intervening confidentially, versus the repercussions of breaking confidentiality on the patient's overall well-being. If the patient has made a judgement to keep it to themself, there's a reason, and a doc has to assess how reasonable this is.

In the OP, we're usually talking about adolescents or 'young adults'. Each case on its merit. To introduce blunt-instrument legislation appears crass at best.


In most areas of U.S. legislation minors are not considered informed adults. They are in the care of their guardians and for the most part the state does it's best to stay out of individuals rights to parent unless it is a situation that presents a danger to the minor. In those cases the state can and should step in and completely re-evaluate the situation without keeping secrets. This legislation upholds that belief in allowing parents to parent the way they see fit.

A medical procedure such as this warrents a guardians knowledge. Now if there is fear of retribution then the state needs to take that into consideration by providing whatever protection is neccessary to keep the minor safe. However, allowing a minor to keep secrets such as this from their guardians is irresponsible and a huge overstep of the states bounderies into what should be a family issue, same is if she was to get a tumor removed or a face transplant.

What if I don't feel my 13 year old daughter is competent enough to choose a reputable doctor to perform the procedure? Instead opting for whoever will do it for $40 or gives them a free Ipod with the procedure. The state has essentially denied my right to console my child before she makes what could be a life or death decision.
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#37 Oct 14 2005 at 3:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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Instead opting for whoever will do it for $40 or gives them a free Ipod with the procedure.


Which is how she got knocked up in the first place.
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#38 Oct 14 2005 at 3:18 PM Rating: Good
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xythex wrote:
What if I don't feel my 13 year old daughter is competent enough to choose a reputable doctor to perform the procedure?
What if she does?

In that scenario she deems herself competent to squat on a d[/i]ick. If the conclusion drawn is that she's out of her depth, well, that's life.

Is it fair? Probably not.

You people seem to want a fu[i]
cking nanny state! This is just another reinforcement of my "Take the warning labels off stuff" theory.

When we remove people from the consequences of their own actions, we promote stupidity. Voila!
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#39 Oct 14 2005 at 3:26 PM Rating: Decent
gbaji wrote:

And if "dad" is the only guardian, then worst case is that he realizes he just knocked up his daugher/stepdaughter. Doubt that'll change his behavior, but it's unlikely in any way to make hers worse.


...you've never met anyone who was sexually abused by their own parents have you? Had you, the patent imbecility of this statement would be manifest.
#40 Oct 14 2005 at 3:28 PM Rating: Good
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NephthysWanderer the Charming wrote:
Quote:
You ***** about kids having abortions and taking the easy way out and then you ***** about unwed single mothers having to many babies and taking all your income in the form of welfare.



You're right. I am not seeing your point here. Either way, its adds up to be irresponsibility. There is NO excuse (save for the R word) for anyone to get pregnant these days with Planned Parenthood basically putting the condom on for you and tipping a cup of water to wash the birth control pill down your mouth.


Because birth control is always 100% effective.
#41 Oct 14 2005 at 3:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Because abstinence is always 100% effective.

Fixed


You can't base a rebuttal on a tiny minute portion of the population. You could what-if anything to death.

#42 Oct 14 2005 at 3:41 PM Rating: Good
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When we remove people from the consequences of their own actions, we promote stupidity. Voila!


I think this is where our disconnect is in this argument. I'm not advocating removing adults from the consequences of their actions, they are able to make their own decisions, but I do believe that many children lack the life experience to make some informed decisions and parents by their very nature are supposed to guide their children for better or worse until they are themselves adults.

Yes, I believe children should live in a nanny state. It is the point of being a child. It is a parents responsibility to shield and guide their children from lifes most dangerous decisions until they feel they are able to make that decision in an informed way.

That is why 8 year olds cant just stroll into an X rated movie, why 12 year olds can't buy ciggerates and booze, 10 year olds cant decide they will no longer attend school, and why 11 year olds can't decide they are willing to trade fuc[/b]ksies with old men in exchange for a pony.
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#43 Oct 14 2005 at 3:43 PM Rating: Good
Gurue
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NephthysWanderer the Charming wrote:
Quote:
Because abstinence is always 100% effective.

Fixed


You can't base a rebuttal on a tiny minute portion of the population. You could what-if anything to death.


The bottom line is, you and your girlfriends all got lucky. Pills can fail at any time, and they can fail anyone. If it had happened to you at 16, I doubt you'd be willing to become a father.
#44 Oct 14 2005 at 3:55 PM Rating: Decent
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The bottom line is, you and your girlfriends all got lucky. Pills can fail at any time, and they can fail anyone. If it had happened to you at 16, I doubt you'd be willing to become a father.


Hence why I was responsible and didn't have sex until I was 18.

And that year I should have had 38 kids.

Its not about those who use it successfully getting lucky. Its about those who did and got pregnant being unlucky.
#45 Oct 14 2005 at 3:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sh[i][/i]it, *I'll* get an abortion if there's a free iPod in it for me.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#46 Oct 14 2005 at 3:59 PM Rating: Decent
Jophiel wrote:
Sh[i][/i]it, *I'll* get an abortion if there's a free iPod in it for me.


Just because you're a cunning runt....
#47 Oct 14 2005 at 4:11 PM Rating: Good
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NephthysWanderer the Charming wrote:
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Ahh but doctors are refusing to prescribe the pill to girls. Bush has taken money and given it to faith based initiatives to spear head his new "chastity" only sexual education program. The programs that focus on promoting chastity while neglecting safe sex and contraception leads to more babies.


What kind of logic is that?

It's not logic, it's reality. Abstinence-based programs have been shown to be ineffective.

neph wrote:
Irresponsible children having more sex leads to more babies. It all cycles back to responsiblity for actions. It is NOT up to government to shoulder this responsibility. It is not for the schools to teach or the congressman legislate. It IS up to the parents of the children.

You want kids to take responsibility for their actions? Hold them accountable.

So...are the kids responsible, or are the parents responsible?


#48 Oct 14 2005 at 4:15 PM Rating: Decent
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It's not logic, it's reality. Abstinence-based programs have been shown to be ineffective.


Now finish the reading part...teaching abstinence based programs does not cause more babies. More sex causes more babies. I understand why this concept might be a little tough for you to understand, being the career virgin posterboy you are, but trust us on that part.

Quote:
So...are the kids responsible, or are the parents responsible?


Parents are responsible for raising their children to be responsible. Nifty huh?
#49 Oct 14 2005 at 4:18 PM Rating: Good
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I understand why this concept might be a little tough for you to understand, being the career virgin posterboy you are, but trust us on that part.


As opposed to being the Abstinence Poster Boy like you?

#50 Oct 14 2005 at 4:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Ummm good one? Smiley: dubious
#51 Oct 14 2005 at 4:23 PM Rating: Good
NephthysWanderer the Charming wrote:
Ummm good one? Smiley: dubious


Think about it.

It'll ***.
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