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the flip flop canidateFollow

#1 Mar 13 2004 at 3:22 PM Rating: Decent
lil something I found on Kerry's website

Here's a list of Bush flip-flops:

FLIP: Bush opposes campaign finance reform.
FLOP: Bush signs campaign finance reform.

FLIP: Bush opposes and stalls a 9/11 commission.
FLOP: Bush supports it.

FLIP: Bush is against deficits
FLOP: Bush's policies create the highest deficits ever.

FLIP: Bush is against nation building.
FLOP: Bush engages in it.


FLIP: Bush opposes an Iraq WMD investigation.
FLOP: Bush grudgingly supports it.

FLIP: Bush is for free trade.
FLOP: Bush supports tariffs on steel.

FLIP: Bush is against a Homeland Security Department
FLOP: Bush takes credit for it.

FLIP: Bush is for states' right to decide on gay marriage.
FLOP: Bush then proposes amending the Constitution so they can't.

FLIP: Bush is against the U.S. taking a role in the Israeli Palestinian conflict.
FLOP: Bush then pushes for a "road map" and a Palestinian State.

FLIP: Bush first says that 'help is on the way' to the military.
FLOP: Bush cuts Veterans benefits.

FLIP: Bush says he'll provide money for first responders (fire, police, emergency).
FLOP: Bush dramatically shortchanges law enforcement.

FLIP: Bush-"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden."
FLOP: Bush-"I don't know where he is. I have no idea and I really don't care."

FLIP: Bush says he'll take care of the environment.
FLOP: Bush then guts laws that protect the environment.

FLIP: Bush talks about helping education.
FLOP: Bush increases mandates while cutting funding.

FLIP: Bush said he would demand a U.N. Security Council vote on whether to sanction military action against Iraq.
FLOP: Bush then changes his mind and announced he would not call for a vote.

FLIP: Bush said the "mission accomplished" banner was put up by the sailors.
FLOP: Bush later blames his advance team.

And that's just one president from Texas...

To be honest my favorite part of the campaign so far is both guys attacking the other for running negative campaigns. Bush says something like, "Kerry, that dirty flipflopper, is running a purely negative campaign." and Kerry retorting back that "Bush that corrupt liar is running a purely negative campaign." Sigh makes me wish there was a viable third canidate, I like John McCain and John Edwards match up so much better. Once again it looks like a vote for the lesser of two evils to me. One thing is for sure it will be entertaining, look for Stewart, Leno, Letterman, Obrien etc to have a hayday.

#2 Mar 13 2004 at 3:54 PM Rating: Good
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"lil something I found on Kerry's website" --flishtaco

Well then! At least that list was taken from an unbiased source.

/rollseyes

Totem
#3 Mar 13 2004 at 4:15 PM Rating: Decent
lol didnt say it wasnt biased in fact I made a point to advise right off the get go that it was =)
#4 Mar 13 2004 at 4:29 PM Rating: Good
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Do you roll your eyes every time the Bush team complains about Kerry's record as well, Totem Smiley: wink

More biased comments on Bush flip-flopping just to annoy Totem Smiley: grin
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#5 Mar 13 2004 at 4:34 PM Rating: Good
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Lol, kiss my a$$, sumbitches!

Totem
#6 Mar 13 2004 at 5:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

Well then! At least that list was taken from an unbiased source.

You wouldn't know an unbiased source if it was ******* you in the *** with a chainsaw while wearing a che geuvera mask and singing "God save the queen".

Although that would be fun to watch.

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#7 Mar 13 2004 at 7:48 PM Rating: Excellent
Smashypoo wrote:
You wouldn't know an unbiased source if it was @#%^ing you in the *** with a chainsaw while wearing a che geuvera mask and singing "God save the queen".

Although that would be fun to watch.


Let me guess, you just happen to have a chainsaw, a 'che geuvera' mask, and know the words to "God save the Queen" right?

You wouldn't know coy if it was ******* you in the *** with a chainsaw while wearing a che geuvera mask and singing "God save the Queen".

#8 Mar 13 2004 at 10:07 PM Rating: Good
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You wouldn't know an unbiased source
Not true! Totem gets all his info from Fox News! Smiley: laugh
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#9 Mar 14 2004 at 10:38 AM Rating: Good
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Not true! Totem gets all his info from Fox News!


At least Fox News has the balls to stand up and say they're biased where as a lot of the other "news" stations claim they aren't biased.
#10 Mar 14 2004 at 12:55 PM Rating: Good
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"Fair and Balanced"! Smiley: lol

I think you're taking this all a little too seriously.
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#11 Mar 14 2004 at 3:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well, they are balanced. It's been proven! They took all of the cnn staff, the fox news staff, and the MSNBC staff and weighed them each on an industrail scale. CNN came up a little short in the weigh in, so they had to hire larry king back.
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#12 Mar 14 2004 at 5:45 PM Rating: Good
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On election night I watch Foxnews if the Republicans are losing, ABC and Peter Jennings if they are winning.

Nothing like watching Peter Jennings having to report each time the republics win another senate seat...or even better the presidency.

There is no such thing as an unbiased network...Fox is the only one that is biased to the correct side though.

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#13 Mar 14 2004 at 10:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Just as a note, isn't flipflopping good? it indicates the person in question is willing to recognize that their initial position may not have been the best one, or that even if they don't agree with something, they will support it.

Don't get me wrong, a dead fish would govern better than GBjr, but if you're going to call him out, use the plethora of good material.

It's a politician's job to flipflop. Otherwise they're being intransient. Besides, in what passes for democracy in north america, we don't elect people to lead us, we elect them to represent us.

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#14 Mar 15 2004 at 2:53 AM Rating: Good
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The point of the initial post, and of the linked column, is to show the irony of one of the Bush campaign's major points on Kerry: i.e. that he "flip flops" on the issues. If flip flopping is good, then Karry's on the right track. If it's bad, then Bush is as guilty as Kerry of the flip flop sin.
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#15 Mar 15 2004 at 9:22 AM Rating: Good
This is why people should make only vague declarative statements. Smiley: disappointed

Anyway, I personally think Bush should leave the flip flop thing alone. He's got a better horse to ride in the "Kerry as non-entity" line. "Oh, you mean you've been on investigative panels and stuff? That's why you never sponsor anything important that gets passed?" Lot's of Americans would rather have a guy who does the wrong thing once in a while than someone who just sits in the back ground and studies things without accomplishing anything.
#16 Mar 15 2004 at 9:36 AM Rating: Good
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MoebiusLord the Flatulent wrote:
Lots of Americans would rather have a guy who does the wrong thing once in a while than someone who just sits in the back ground and studies things without accomplishing anything.


I totally agree with you. However, I don't see George Jr. as the guy who's done the wrong thing "once in a while." He somehow reminds me of the little kid who doesn't get his way and takes his toys out of the sandbox to go play elsewhere.

And now he's playing the approval rating game, as they all do in an election year. Does anyone else think they're gonna pull Bin Laden out of a hat 2 weeks before the election?

#17 Mar 15 2004 at 9:44 AM Rating: Good
I sure as hell hope they do. If it happens the entire left side of the political teeter totter will cry foul, but were it there guy you can bet the same would happen. I think it's just one of those things that makes an incumbent president tough to beat. Good on him if he can pull it off.
#18 Mar 17 2004 at 4:12 PM Rating: Decent
MoebiusLord the Flatulent wrote:
This is why people should make only vague declarative statements. Smiley: disappointed

Anyway, I personally think Bush should leave the flip flop thing alone. He's got a better horse to ride in the "Kerry as non-entity" line. "Oh, you mean you've been on investigative panels and stuff? That's why you never sponsor anything important that gets passed?" Lot's of Americans would rather have a guy who does the wrong thing once in a while than someone who just sits in the back ground and studies things without accomplishing anything.


John Kerry has a distinguished legislative record. He and John McCain negotiated an agreement with Vietnam to provide a full accounting for POW-MIAs. He wrote the first bill reducing acid rain. He has repeatedly led the charge in protecting the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge from drilling. He has passed legislation that shut down money laundering activities of terrorists and drug traffickers.

President Clinton Praised Kerry for Putting 100,000 Cops on the Street – “When we tried to get past six years of talking tough on crime but nothing happening, rhetoric and rhetoric and rhetoric and no action, to put 100,000 police on the street, to ban deadly assault weapons to pass the Brady bill, the other side, [the Republicans] led the fight against it. But John Kerry helped us pass the toughest, smartest, best crime bill this country has seen in many a day, and the crime rate has gone down for four years in a row. John Kerry was on the right side of history.” [Public Papers of the President: Fall River, MA; 8/28/96]

Democratic Leader Tom Daschle Says Kerry Knows How to Get the Legislative Job Done in the Senate - Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle had kind words for John Kerry’s work on Campaign Finance Reform when he asked Kerry to chair the Democratic Steering Committee: "From our teen-smoking bill to HMO reform and Campaign Finance Reform, John Kerry has demonstrated that he clearly knows how to get the job done. He is a valued and trusted member of our leadership team, and I am pleased he has accepted another term as Chairman of the Steering and Coordination Committee." [Daschle Press Release, 11/19/98]

Even Dr. Bill Frist, Senate Majority Leader Says Kerry’s Global AIDS Legislation is a “Huge Step Forward”: “’The Kerry-Frist bill is a huge step forward,” said [current Majority Leader Bill] Frist. “It further validates U.S. leadership in the global effort to end devastation many countries face in the fight against HIV/AIDS’.” [Office of Senator Frist, press release 7/12/02]

58 bills and resolutions John Kerry has sponsored over the years have passed the U.S. Senate. Countless others have been improved because of his work, including the Clean Air Act, the Children’s Health Insurance Program and the COPS program.

The number of bills that bear your name is a poor measure of legislative accomplishment. For example, Ted Kennedy, who most would acknowledge as the most accomplished Democratic Senator in a generation, has had just 9 bills signed into law in 10 years. Of the more than 400 bills Kennedy sponsored in 108th, 105th and 104th Congresses none were signed into law. And Bill Frist, the Republican Majority Leader, has sponsored 88 bills in the 108th Congress and zero have become law. In the 107th Congress, Frist sponsored 52 bills and 1 became law. It was a bill to authorize and urge the President to promote democracy in Zimbabwe.


#19 Mar 17 2004 at 5:57 PM Rating: Good
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It has been fun to listen to Cheney and Powell excoriate Ker-ry over his unsubstantiated boasts and alleged conversations with his imaginary world leader friends (does Mr. Nobody ring a bell?), not to mention his flipflop on an $87 billion dollar spending bill.

"I voted for it, then I voted against it..." Intransient much, Senator Ker-ry?

I wonder when he's gonna start blasting his wife for the "outsourcing" that's been going on at the Heinz company. Hmmm, maybe never? Could it be because these supposed soft spots in the Republican underbelly happen to be the very same soft spots the Dems have?

Gee, let's talk about Haliburton now. Senator Diane Feinstein's husband's company was awarded a juicy contract over in Iraq recently. Ya, I know. His company deserved that one-- it certainly wouldn't have anything to do with his wife's Congressional contacts since those Dems are so far above reproach, would it?

On and on it goes. If y'all are accusing the 'Publicans of misbehavior, perhaps you might open your eyes to the graft, greed, and corruption in your own ranks?

Totem
#20 Mar 17 2004 at 8:48 PM Rating: Good
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It has been fun to listen to Cheney and Powell excoriate Ker-ry over his unsubstantiated boasts and alleged conversations with his imaginary world leader friends (does Mr. Nobody ring a bell?)
Oh, please. I'll agree that if Kerry wasn't prepared to back up the statement he probably shouldn't have said it. And since he says the remarks were made in confidence, he shouldn't have made them public (unless, I suppose, said leaders said it's okay so long as he doesn't name them -- *shrug*). But "if you don't tell us it means it didn't happen" is 5th grade style taunting. Whether or not Kerry names names (and I feel that he has good reason not to) has zero impact on whether or not it's factual that foreign leaders said anything. I know the Bush camp think their statement is a great way to embarass Kerry into speaking up, but it's based in absolute silliness to claim one has anything to do with the other and it's honestly embarassing to hear the Bush camp sink to that gradeschool level.

Hey, someone told me last night that my son is a smart kid. Now, I'm not going to tell you who said it, so does that mean it never happened?

Quote:
Senator Diane Feinstein's husband's company was awarded a juicy contract over in Iraq recently
Huh. Have they "mistakenly" overbilled for over a hundred million dollars yet? Was it a no-bid contract handed over on a silver platter because, by golly, they were the only company capable of handling that job? Just asking.
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#21 Mar 17 2004 at 9:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Whether or not Kerry names names (and I feel that he has good reason not to) has zero impact on whether or not it's factual that foreign leaders said anything.


The good reason he probably does not want to is because it's possible that it is the Chinese, North Koreans, French, Iranians and the others that do not like the US. That is defintely not the list of countries I would put out there. If it was the U.K., Russia, Japan, S. Korea, Canada or Mexico then he would probably want these countries leaked out.

IMHO of course.
#22 Mar 17 2004 at 9:15 PM Rating: Good
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Well. There's also a difference there. If you're just stating something out of the blue, with no partcular agenda behind it, then you have no burden of proving what you say is true.

So you can state that a friend of yours said your son was smart. Ok. Whatever. That doesn't really mean anything to us.

But if your son was up for a scholarship, and you listed a testimony by someone that your friend was smart as a critical bit of support for your son getting the scholarship, I think it might be reasonable that folks might want to determine if this was actually true.

Same logic applies. If Kerry is using some statements by foreign leaders as support for his candidacy for president of the US, then those statements need to either be confirmed for them to be taken at face value. A presidential election is not the time for spurious statements. Everything has an impact, intended or not. If you make a statement, or a statement gets leaked out somehow, you need to support it. If you can't, that's going to reflect badly on yourself. Again. Whether he intended it or not is irrelevant. This is a man being considered or the presidency. Is he going to make other off the cuff statements about foreign leaders and their opinions that may or may not be true once he's president? I don't know about you, but that would seem to be relevant...
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#23 Mar 17 2004 at 10:27 PM Rating: Good
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The crowd, made up of mostly illiterate and unemployed welfare recipients, warms up to the cheerleading staffer wearing a black T-shirt with "SECURITY" emblazoned upon it. He is egging them on as they anticipate the arrival of their hero. Blood is in the air, you can smell it.

"Ker-ry! Ker-ry! Ker-ry! Ker-ry!"

All at once, he bursts onto the set and the enthralled, non-voting, dead weight, young Democrats go into a frenzy.

"Ker-ry! Ker-ry! Ker-ry! Ker-ry!

Each of them wonders, what will this Democratic Party Everyman discuss on this day's show? Paternity? Cheating ho's and their equally repulsive men? Boyfriends who sleep with their girl's best friend? What will it be?!? After all, there are only a few topics which even interest this mercurial crowd.

As the chanting dies down the candidate opens his mouth and begins to spin in that sonorous and vaguely familiar voice-- check that --it's not just the timbre of his voice, there's more to it. It nags on the edge of your conscienceness until it hits you. They made a TV show with this guy in it years ago! The incongruity of it makes you laugh, but there it is-- he is Hermann Munster.

Hermann Munster Goes To Washington. This goes beyond incredible, this is firmly planted in the truth-is-stranger-than-fiction section, where the Batboy who gives birth to a cat and Elvis is really an Alien comfortably roam. The shock of it has you shaking your head.

As you begin to focus on what he is saying you realize that he's playing a game so many of us played when we were little: the Mr. Nobody Game. This game serves many purposes, Mr. Nobody keeps us company when we are alone or scared, he takes the blame when someone says or does something which might get us in trouble, and, of course, he's a perfectly wonderful unimpeachable source of all sorts of information and gossip. Best of all, he talks to no one but you!

What's great about Mr. Nobody is that he can't be pinned down on anything he says. And not only that, but his title Mister gives him a credibility that makes it sound real! Oh! Oh! But he is real, sorry 'bout that.

Anyhow, it becomes quite clear a couple of moments into his spiel that Mr. Nobody has been doing a lot of whispering in Ker-ry's ear as of late. In his status as official diplomat Mr. Nobody has been couriering many world leader's implicit and openly stated desire for Ker-ry to be president to our shining candidate. But Mr. Nobody is a gentleman to the core. He'd never tell or inform on his sources. What a guy!

Mr. Nobody also has been helpful in setting future policy. When it becomes plain that Ker-ry has been duped by those evil Republicans on spending bills put before him in Congress, Mr. Nobody helps him see the light of day and makes him understand why he should in a manner which appears arbitrary to others, change his mind without reason. But we all know Mr. Nobody played a big big part in that decision and many others like it.

As the speech winds down, it becomes very clear that we are lucky indeed! While Algore had done many important things like invent the internet and so forth, he had nothing on Ker-ry. With Mr. Nobody at his side Senator Ker-ry has changed the course of human history.

We tune in as Hermann Munster wraps it all up neatly with a bow and tells us what it all means.

"I am one of you. I know where you come from. I know what you are going through. With my wife Lilly's millions and millions of dollars I have experienced your pain and suffering under the Bush tax relief plan. I keenly feel the anguish of losing your job to Pakistanis and Brazilians. How do I know? Because my wife's company has expressly done this very thing so that I am able to truly know what you are feeling. She has kindly taken it upon herself to further the problem so that I can so much better commiserate with you, the Great Unwashed.

"With your's and Mr. Nobody's help I will make it to the White House some day soon. But I need your vote! Yes, I know that your demographic tends not to actually do anything, but this time, this time I know it will be different.

"We can change this country, yes, we can. And I promise you that if elected I will make TV Land run The Munsters 24/7 so that you will be up-to-date on your government in action, you'll see your president at work, and Grampa and that creepy little boy Eddie who seem to serve no purpose but to annoy us. That is what we will do-- TOGETHER!"

With that Hermann laughs that stilted laugh where his hands are kinda out in front of him and his head rocks side-to-side. "Ha-ha! Ha-ha! Ha-ha!"

The crowd goes wild with adulation shouting, "Mun-ster! Mun-ster! Mun-ster!"

Thus ends another day on the stump with the bright hope of our country's future.

Totem

Edited, Thu Mar 18 00:14:01 2004 by Totem
#24 Mar 17 2004 at 10:27 PM Rating: Good
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Wheeeeee!

I love this place with each and every little quirk* this board has!

Totem

*Angry Hippo, I'm not talking about you. I said quirk, not *****.

Edited, Wed Mar 17 22:27:50 2004 by Totem
#25 Mar 17 2004 at 11:42 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
"We can change this country, yes, we can. And I promise you that if elected I will make TV Land run The Munsters 24/7 so that you will be up-to-date on your government in action, you'll see your president at work, and his crazy uncle and creepy little boy who seem to serve no purpose but to annoy us. That is what we will do-- TOGETHER!"


Wow, you make this sound fun, damn now I regret voting for Edwards =)
#26 Mar 18 2004 at 12:02 AM Rating: Good
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:D

It's gonna be a long and fun political season, yeah?

Totem
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