Transgender rightsFollow

So, really "butch" women who have vaginas also elicit this reaction, right?

What about a masculine "normal" appearing man with a female gender in a locker rooom?

Edited, Mar 27th 2013 2:09am by Almalieque

In a woman's locker room with you.

So it's ok to operate a peep hole in a dressing room as long as the people using it don't know and thus aren't uncomfortable with someone else watching them dress? I'm honestly curious how far the "what they don't know doesn't hurt them" approach goes.



Um... They're being polite (and politically correct) because they know the trans person. Ask 100 random women you don't know if they'd be ok with a man disguised as a woman using the women's restroom with them without informing them, and 99 of them will say they would not like that. The other one would apparently be Belkira, although she's probably being polite and politically correct as well.



No. I'm pretty sure everyone who isn't trying to spare your feelings feels that it's an imposition for you to do this. I mean, we all empathize with what you're going through, but that does not translate to "yeah, just use whichever restroom you feel most comfortable in". Again, this goes back to my earlier statement about violating 1000 people's comfort zone in order to make yourself more comfortable.



I think it is. We both agree that if it's not obvious that you're a biological male using the women's restroom, that women aren't going to say or do anything. But you presume that it's because if they knew you had a ***** they'd be fine with it anyway because your gender identity is female, and I presume it's because they don't know you have a ***** and would be uncomfortable with that regardless of what you felt about yourself. I think my position is vastly more likely to represent the typical feelings of the US population. Of course, I'm inclined to do that because it's my position (duh), but I suspect that most people reading agree with me as well.


Call it intolerance if you want, but I think my statement more accurately reflects how people actually feel.

Edited, Mar 26th 2013 5:32pm by gbaji

The problem is that distinction only exists inside your own head. From everyone else who doesn't know you personally's perspective, you are a man disguised as a woman. From an external perspective there's no difference between you dressing that way and using the women's restroom because you identify as female and that's what feels right to you, and a man dressing that way and using the women's restroom because he has a fetish about women in restrooms, or a sexual fantasy, or he's a sexual predator, or any of a dozen different reasons a man might go into the women's restroom.

That's the problem.

Let me add for completeness sake; the reason this is a problem is because this gives any pervert who wants to hang out in women's restrooms or locker rooms or whatever an excuse to do so. They can just claim to be transgender and *poof* they're not doing anything wrong, right? Worse, they can now potentially sue a business or school for discrimination for *not* allowing them to it. Again, there's no external way to know what's really going on inside someone else's head. You can say "I'm transgender and I feel like a woman on the inside, so it's ok", all day long, but there's literally zero way for me to know if that's true.

So yeah, it sucks, but you happen to be wanting to do something that makes you comfortable that also happens to be something that a number of sexual predators would like to do as well. You get the short end of the stick on this one, but society kinda has to err on the side of not exposing people to easy victimization by predators. As Joph pointed out, most publicly available restrooms are on private property. The restaurant owner is most concerned about making his restrooms as friendly and safe feeling as possible to the larger number of customers possible. This is always going to be a problem for the one person who's transgender and who's comfort condition is the opposite of the other 1000. But ultimately, that's something you'll have to deal with. It's more than unreasonable to try to force everyone else to change to comply with your desires. At the end of the day, you have two completely incompatible requirements. One has to give.

Um... This is different than a man disguised as a woman (from their perspective) exactly how? Or do you not get what a disguise is?

I'm sorry, i was responding to the previous post. It didn't seem necessary to quote it, since i was responding right after, but next time i will.

Edited, Mar 26th 2013 9:04pm by Rachel9

What about it? Would I have a problem? Absolutely not. Why would I?



Edited, Mar 26th 2013 8:31pm by Belkira

I think that's what I said about 11 pages ago. Obviously it's not the answer anyone wants to entertain for some reason.

Mostly because gbaji and Alma might still have to see someone different in the completely safe and comfortable public restrooms they frequent.

All that wasted money!

Because I do recall you saying before that you would feel uncomfortable about sharing showers with heterosexual men. 'Twas the time you listed reasons on why a woman wouldn't want to share a shower with a heterosexual man and asked me to provide reasons why a man wouldn't want to do the same with homosexuals. I then copied and pasted your response and you ridiculed my response. So, if I overlooked your new sentiment about co-ed showers, I apologize. Just don't forget, that was my solution as well.

Maybe the reason why I intentionally didn't say bathroom and said locker room in my question? Not that anyone expects you to grasp that.