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What's the deal with GMOs? Follow

#102 Sep 23 2013 at 8:02 AM Rating: Good
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#103 Sep 23 2013 at 11:04 AM Rating: Good
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I was gonna start a new thread for this but then i looked, I mean really looked, at the front page of the Asylum and was horrified at how many of the threads were started by 'Elinda'. Time to cut back.

I started an Environmental Law class through Coursera last week. This weeks assignment is GMO related....

Here's the scenario:
Quote:
Tina (owner of the Organic Superman Farm) is disturbed by the prospect of using genetically modified crops to grow medicine and recently became furious to learn that bits of genetically engineered substances (including the medicine/protein) from the Millennium Farm’s corn plants have blown over onto the Superman Farm and have been found within the seed corn from which Tina hoped to grow the next year’s crop of organic corn. This means that Tina has to destroy all of her seed corn – and indeed her hopes of ever growing her own seed corn again – lest she sell corn that in fact is like a prescription drug and that could cause all kinds of side effects to those who ate it. Tina wants to file a lawsuit against the New Millennium Farm claiming that its “pharm corn” is a private nuisance under the precedents of the Meadowbrook Swimming Club, Slaird v. Klewers, Madison v. Ducktown Sulphur, Georgia v. Tennessee Copper, Missouri v. Illinois and Sanitary District of Chicago, State of Michigan v. U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and City of Chicago cases (which you can assume are all good precedent in New Columbia) and asking that the court permanently enjoin New Millennium Farm from growing this kind of genetically engineered crop in the open air where it can blow over and pollinate (contaminate) the organic corn on the Superman Farm. For purposes of this assignment, you can assume that neither the U.S. federal government nor the State of New Columbia has enacted any kind of comprehensive statute regulating genetic pharming. Instead, those wishing to try genetic pharming need only obtain an experimental-use permit from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, permits that are granted fairly easily (Millenium Farm has such a permit).

The other cases mentioned were our first weeks. Here's a very quick summation:
- Albert v. Meadowbrook swimming club - A Country Club has live music nightly all summer long. Due to the morphology of the land the music is amplified out to neighboring homes.
Court finds the Country Club to be a nuisance and orders an injunction.
- Slaird v. Klewers - A family moves into a neighborhood, has a swimming pool, with all the bells and whistles installed. A neighbor complains of the noise of the diving board, the flood lights and chlorinated water splashing onto their bushes.
Court finds insufficient evidence of a nuisance. Case dismissed. The determination was based on the pool and it's use not being out of the ordinary and, at least partly, on the determination that the plaintiffs were not persons of 'ordinary sensibilities' (they were willy whiners).
- Madison v. Ducktown Sulfur - A sulfur company set up shop in a rural area of Tennessee. The production of the sulfur was pretty dirty business requiring open air smelthing. Homesteaders in the area reported illness, breathing difficulty and a layers of soot over over every thing. Also the land was pretty much unusable for farming anymore. The folks of Madison sought an injunction against the sulfur company.
Court finds undeniable evidence of nuisance, but doesn't grant an injunction because the defendants cannot reduce their ores in any other manner, an injunction would deprive their rights. The plaintiffs were given monetary compensation.
- Georgia v Tennessee Copper - Like the last case this is open air mining and smelting however this time it's a state bringing suit against the mining co. located in Tennessee. Georgia claims that sulfur dioxide is crossing over state lines causing crop and forest damage in five Georgia Counties.
Court finds that the mining is a nuisance in Georgia. Also since Georgia is a sovereign body, has a right (and responsibility) to protect it's lands and citizens (more rights than a private citizen) an injunction is issued.
Miss v Ill and Chicago Sanitary District - Chicago tunneled out a channel to the Desplaines River to discharge their sewage away from lake mich and the city. The Desplaines eventually empties into the Mississippi - in Missouri. Missouri claimed that the additional sewage created a greater risk of typhoid fever to residents of St. Louis. Typhoid fever statistics for that area during that time period did not provide any evidence of increased rates contagion.
Court finds insufficient evidence and dismisses the case without prejudice.
- MI vs US ACoE and City of Chicago - this time the culprit is the highly invasive Asian Carp. The carp is in the river, lots of governmental bodies had been responding to the threat of them getting into the great lakes. The channel built from Chicago to the Mississippi is a clear unblocked route for passage of the carp. Michigan sought immediate relief through closing off the channel.
Court finds that the channel does present a nuisance within the context of the problem. However, they deny a preliminary injunction because the defendant is already taking steps to insure the channel doesn't provide a conduit to the great lakes and a court-ordered injunction could hinder that process.

So, decide the case of Superman Farm based on the findings of these other six cases......

(one page done Smiley: grin
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#104 Sep 23 2013 at 11:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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Are you trying to get us to do your homework for you?

Smiley: disappointed
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#105 Sep 23 2013 at 11:18 AM Rating: Good
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Tina is soon sued by Shuster and Siegal.
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#106 Sep 23 2013 at 11:45 AM Rating: Good
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Will the quiz be multiple choice or open questions?
#107 Sep 23 2013 at 11:57 AM Rating: Decent
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Madison controls, Superman can seek compensatory (likely one time) monetary damages, but will be denied an injunction. Superman may have exhaustion issues to overcome if the USDA permitting process would have allowed comment and they didn't seek remedy at that point in the process.
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#108 Sep 23 2013 at 1:18 PM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Are you trying to get us to do your homework for you?

Smiley: disappointed

Only if you want, as I only have to do it if I want. The paper isn't required to get attendance credit.

Quote:
Tina is soon sued by Shuster and Siegal
She named her farm Superman as the river that flows through her property is shaped like a big "S". You're correct however, Tina's in far more hot water over copyright infringement than Millennium Farm is for letting some seeds slip out of it's control.

Quote:
Madison controls, Superman can seek compensatory (likely one time) monetary damages, but will be denied an injunction. Superman may have exhaustion issues to overcome if the USDA permitting process would have allowed comment and they didn't seek remedy at that point in the process.
I think the Madison precedent pertains best as well. You could possibly make a case that the modified corn could be found to be 'invasive' seeing that it already invaded Tina's seed corn. So, I suppose that like in Michigan v Chicago, you could say that the Millennium Farm is the avenue through which an invasive species can enter the food chain. That's not really the claim that Tina is making though.

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#109 Sep 23 2013 at 2:02 PM Rating: Good
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Okay, most of those cases are completely irrelevant for reasons you seem to understand. Based off your account of Madison, it turns on whether the modified corn can reasonably* be grown in any other manner (closed air greenhouses, for example). If it can, you would expect her to be granted an injunction. If not, then the result would be the same as in that case.

*I assume. If they use, as you do, the criterion of 'possibility' you can get some mileage arguing about what that means if you're very bored. Generally 'reasonable' is taken as implicit, because judges like to think of themselves as reasonable people when they're not pulling off some manner of cowardly dodge.

This is a really boring problem question. I'm not hip to this 'the coursera' business you kids are doing these days, what kind of course is this? I could find out with a google search in a couple of seconds but doing it this way serves to breathe life into the forum. I am a team player.
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#110 Sep 23 2013 at 2:10 PM Rating: Decent
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You could possibly make a case that the modified corn could be found to be 'invasive' seeing that it already invaded Tina's seed corn.

Not with approved permitting from the statutory authority you can't.
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#111 Sep 23 2013 at 4:10 PM Rating: Good
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Kavekkk wrote:
Kk.
Rage delete? har.
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#112 Sep 23 2013 at 4:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Elinda wrote:
Kavekkk wrote:
Kk.
Rage delete? har.


No, I lost my keys. Sniffer dogs with magnetized snouts are searching for them as we speak.

So anyway, what's the deal with this course?
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#113 Sep 24 2013 at 6:48 AM Rating: Good
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It's just a free easy course I decided to commit to as I do some environmental policy stuff. This particular class is being held by U of NC Chapel Hill, led by Prof. Don Hornstein

www.coursera.org Introduction to Environmental Law and Policy

They're offering this 'signature track' service now. It's $39.00. This is what it tells me....
Quote:
Hi Lovely Elinda,

We are really glad to see you in Introduction to Environmental Law and Policy! You've been invited to join the Signature Track, which allows you to earn a Verified Certificate for this course.

Through this special option, you will be able to certify your success in this course by securely linking your coursework to your identity using your unique typing pattern and webcam.



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#114 Sep 24 2013 at 9:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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How's that work? The only way to keep people from cheating is to watch them type their papers on webcam or something? Smiley: dubious
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#115 Sep 24 2013 at 9:29 AM Rating: Good
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The basic credit comes from watching the lectures and taking the weekly quiz. All the certification would do is give some guarantee that it was your computer viewing the lectures and taking the quizzes.

You can get more credit for courses by doing additional work. Papers, projects, forum stuff. Then the certification will verify the work is coming from your computer but also presumably tracks and matches your writing style to some extent. At least that's the claim.
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#116 Sep 24 2013 at 9:37 AM Rating: Decent
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The only way to keep people from cheating is to watch them type their papers on webcam or something?

Right as opposed to the traditional experience where proctors follow students around while they write papers and stare pointedly over their shoulders. There's no way to stop cheating on research writing or exams in universities, hence thesis defense for serious graduate programs. Fairly hard to fake that in most disciplines.
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#117 Sep 24 2013 at 9:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
The basic credit comes from watching the lectures and taking the weekly quiz. All the certification would do is give some guarantee that it was your computer viewing the lectures and taking the quizzes.

You can get more credit for courses by doing additional work. Papers, projects, forum stuff. Then the certification will verify the work is coming from your computer but also presumably tracks and matches your writing style to some extent. At least that's the claim.


Huh, interesting, the arms race continues it seems.

If you're going to cheat, do it consistently! Smiley: schooled

Edited, Sep 24th 2013 8:39am by someproteinguy
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#118 Sep 24 2013 at 9:56 AM Rating: Good
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Since everything is electronic now, it's at least easier to check for plagiarism.

For these classes there's not much incentive to cheat as most people are not using them to get an accredited degree.

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#119 Sep 24 2013 at 10:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Since everything is electronic now, it's at least easier to check for plagiarism.

Yes, but not for me writing your paper. More expensive, obviously, but paper databases just prevent wide scale usage of the same text by multiple students, they do nothing to prevent handing in someone else's original work.
____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#120 Sep 24 2013 at 10:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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Unless you infrequently use them and their writing style is sufficiently different or something?

I wonder how those kinds of things work anyway. As someone who was periodically tasked with helping lengthen papers in college you'd think the difference in writing styles would set off alarm bells on software looking for it? maybe?
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#121 Sep 24 2013 at 10:18 AM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
Since everything is electronic now, it's at least easier to check for plagiarism.

Yes, but not for me writing your paper.
How does the cheater know that the paid paper-writing isn't cheating too?

On the cheaters highway all exits lead to mistrust. Smiley: lol
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#122 Sep 24 2013 at 10:20 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
As someone who was periodically tasked with helping lengthen papers
A job for gbaji, I think.
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#123 Sep 24 2013 at 10:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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I've had college papers that I got a solid "A" on and thought it was a shame they couldn't be used again. My career in academic fraud would be based on hubris rather than cash Smiley: grin

Well, except one paper that I did use again myself in another class with another instructor but similar subject matter. Is it cheating if you cheat off of yourself?
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#124 Sep 24 2013 at 10:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
As someone who was periodically tasked with helping lengthen papers
A job for gbaji, I think.
Indeed if I had only know about Allakhazam back then, I could have saved myself some time. Smiley: frown

Long story, because why not? The Mrs. has a knack for answering questions very succinctly. Back in college, we'd have a question on a test that required a long answer or something. I'd write 12 sentences and get 10/10 points, she'd write like maybe 2 sentances and get 9/10. An awesome skill to have, but not in the world of minimum page limits. So she'd bring me a paper she was writing, something that was supposed to be 5 pages long, and she'd gotten stuck at just under 3 pages because she had nothing left to discuss. My task was to fill in 2 pages of fluff, or reword what she was saying to make it longer and more drawn out.

Needless to say I'm not a huge fan of mandatory page limits. Smiley: rolleyes
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#125 Sep 24 2013 at 10:31 AM Rating: Decent
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Unless you infrequently use them and their writing style is sufficiently different or something?

Listen, if some kid from a wealthy family is paying you $1500 to write a lit review for him, you'd adapt your writing style to his, and obviously insist on him paying in cash up front after that time he burned Piper on those Weezer tickets. I mean, in theory, obviously.
____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#126 Sep 24 2013 at 10:41 AM Rating: Good
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50,767 posts
Elinda wrote:
They're offering this 'signature track' service now. It's $39.00. This is what it tells me....
Spam mail, nice.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
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