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#677 Oct 26 2012 at 9:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
The comparison is US Black civil rights and US homosexual civil rights

The comparison should be miscegenation laws vs SSM laws or black workplace discrimination vs gay workplace discrimination or gay partner inheritance rights vs women's inheritance rights.

Trying to broaden it to entire spheres invites disqualifying it via irrelevant differences. Talking about slavery or bus seats when discussing SSM is like saying the Boy Scouts sex abuse scandal doesn't compare to the Roman Catholic Church sex abuse scandal because, you know, Crusades. And transubstantiation. And the Gospels vs The Jungle Book. And neckerchiefs. And pocket knifes.


Smiley: laugh

Oh, that's what's going on here, eh? It's tough to pick up the beat when Alma's posts don't show.
#678 Oct 26 2012 at 9:15 AM Rating: Good
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Eske Esquire wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
The comparison is US Black civil rights and US homosexual civil rights

The comparison should be miscegenation laws vs SSM laws or black workplace discrimination vs gay workplace discrimination or gay partner inheritance rights vs women's inheritance rights.

Trying to broaden it to entire spheres invites disqualifying it via irrelevant differences. Talking about slavery or bus seats when discussing SSM is like saying the Boy Scouts sex abuse scandal doesn't compare to the Roman Catholic Church sex abuse scandal because, you know, Crusades. And transubstantiation. And the Gospels vs The Jungle Book. And neckerchiefs. And pocket knifes.


Smiley: laugh

Oh, that's what's going on here, eh? It's tough to pick up the beat when Alma's posts don't show.
That beat you struggle with, it's the collective head pounding on a wall.
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#679 Oct 26 2012 at 9:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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It's kinda catchy.
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#680 Oct 26 2012 at 9:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
The comparison is US Black civil rights and US homosexual civil rights

The comparison should be miscegenation laws vs SSM laws or black workplace discrimination vs gay workplace discrimination or gay partner inheritance rights vs women's inheritance rights.

Trying to broaden it to entire spheres invites disqualifying it via irrelevant differences. Talking about slavery or bus seats when discussing SSM is like saying the Boy Scouts sex abuse scandal doesn't compare to the Roman Catholic Church sex abuse scandal because, you know, Crusades. And transubstantiation. And the Gospels vs The Jungle Book. And neckerchiefs. And pocket knifes.


Smiley: laugh

Oh, that's what's going on here, eh? It's tough to pick up the beat when Alma's posts don't show.
That beat you struggle with, it's the collective head pounding on a wall.


Smiley: banghead
Smiley: banghead
Smiley: banghead
Smiley: banghead
Smiley: banghead
Smiley: banghead
#681 Oct 26 2012 at 9:49 AM Rating: Good
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Unce unce unce unce unce unce.
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#682 Oct 26 2012 at 10:01 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Unce unce unce unce unce unce.

You're singing along?

Smiley: lol
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#683 Oct 26 2012 at 10:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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[:tapdance:]
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#684 Oct 26 2012 at 10:05 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Unce unce unce unce unce unce.
Boots'n'cats'n'boots'n'cats.
#685 Oct 26 2012 at 10:15 AM Rating: Good
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I'm dancin'. I'M DANCIN'.
#686 Oct 26 2012 at 7:06 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
The comparison is US Black civil rights and US homosexual civil rights

The comparison should be miscegenation laws vs SSM laws or black workplace discrimination vs gay workplace discrimination or gay partner inheritance rights vs women's inheritance rights.

Trying to broaden it to entire spheres invites disqualifying it via irrelevant differences. Talking about slavery or bus seats when discussing SSM is like saying the Boy Scouts sex abuse scandal doesn't compare to the Roman Catholic Church sex abuse scandal because, you know, Crusades. And transubstantiation. And the Gospels vs The Jungle Book. And neckerchiefs. And pocket knifes.

Edited, Oct 26th 2012 9:24am by Jophiel


I'm arguing against what others say. That's what people compare to. Arip's post was VERY general and not specific to marriage in any sense imaginable.

So, you agree that there is no comparison between US Black civil rights and homosexual civil rights?
That's a start..

So, now let's compare SSM laws vs miscegenation. There is no comparison here as well. The only similarities are the fundamental necessities that make them discrimination, but the type of discrimination and the reasons are completely different.

As I said, miscegenation is an attack on restrictions adhering to the fundamental union of marriage (man and a woman) to prevent mixed children and preserve a specific "pure" race (a mentality that is still blatant in East Asia). Furthermore, it wasn't and still isn't a common practice ( Black/white marriages) in comparison to other marriage percentages. Most people tend to marry people of their own race.

While SSM is an attack on redefining the fundamental union of marriage (man and a woman). When and if appealed, it will be taken advantage by a large percentage of same sex couples as it is the primary concern.

It goes back to my previous statement, if "B" is closer to "A" than "C" and "C" is close to "A", then how is "C" not close to "B"?
#687 Oct 26 2012 at 7:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
So, you agree that there is no comparison between US Black civil rights and homosexual civil rights?

Obviously not since I already mentioned areas where they had shared traits. That's not to say they are completely analogous.

Quote:
So, now let's compare SSM laws vs miscegenation. There is no comparison here as well.

As noted previously, the courts disagree with you. You can dismiss that if you'd like but, since the courts and not you will ultimately decide this issue, I'll stick with the people who are relevant.

Edited, Oct 26th 2012 8:12pm by Jophiel
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#688 Oct 26 2012 at 7:37 PM Rating: Default
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if "B" is closer to "A" than "C" and "C" is close to "A", then how is "C" not close to "B"?

Jophiel wrote:
As noted previously, the courts disagree with you. You can dismiss that if you'd like but, since the courts and not you will ultimately decide this issue, I'll stick with the people who are relevant.


So, if Obamacare gets approved, then obviously everyone must agree with it and it's absolute. If abortion becomes illegal AGAIN, the obviously abortion is evil and everyone will cave in and support it, because deep down inside, they also believe it.

According to your logic, SSM shouldn't be recognized because currently the government doesn't recognize it. They made their decision, so why are you fighting? It's not "right" until the court agrees with you? So, when the tables are turned will you believe the same or will you think that it's now "absolute"?

If this nation weren't so divided on issues then you might would have had a point.
#689 Oct 26 2012 at 7:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
So, if Obamacare gets approved, then obviously everyone must agree with it and it's absolute. If abortion becomes illegal AGAIN, the obviously abortion is evil and everyone will cave in and support it, because deep down inside, they also believe it.

Nope and nope.

Quote:
According to your logic, SSM shouldn't be recognized because currently the government doesn't recognize it.

No, according to my logic, SSM isn't recognized because currently the government doesn't recognize it. However they do recognize the precedent of miscegenation laws being applicable to SSM.

It's valid for me to work to change the former. It's valid for you to work to change the latter. It's not valid for either of us to say these things don't count because we don't like their current state.
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#690Almalieque, Posted: Oct 26 2012 at 8:03 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) if "B" is closer to "A" than "C" and "C" is close to "A", then how is "C" not close to "B"?
#691 Oct 26 2012 at 9:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
if "B" is closer to "A" than "C" and "C" is close to "A", then how is "C" not close to "B"?


Like this:


B-------------------------------------------------A--C
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#692 Oct 26 2012 at 9:33 PM Rating: Default
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B isn't closer to A than C in your example. Unless you're in Bizarro world.

Edited, Oct 27th 2012 5:33am by Almalieque
#693 Oct 26 2012 at 9:48 PM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
B isn't closer to A than C in your example. Unless you're in Bizarro world.

Edited, Oct 27th 2012 5:33am by Almalieque


B-------------------------------------------------A--C

B-------------------------------------------------A
B-----------------------------------------------------C

B is closer to A than C.

A--C

A is close to C

B-----------------------------------------------------C

B is not close to C
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#694 Oct 26 2012 at 9:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Maybe alma should invest in a measuring tape. that and basic counting skills. don't worry, we'll wait.

Edited, Oct 26th 2012 10:52pm by Xsarus
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#695 Oct 26 2012 at 9:57 PM Rating: Good
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Even if we go this route:

B-----A------C

A-----B
A------C

B is closer to A than C is.

A------C

A is close to C

B--------------C

B is not close to C (No matter how you choose to define "close" you can always move them to make B and C outside that range.)
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#696 Oct 27 2012 at 2:59 AM Rating: Good
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Looking in from the outside it's wonderful the way so many Americans are still subconsciously racist. Especially so many African Americans, who seem to like to ghettoise themselves. Watching TV with black only performers. Watching/listening to black only musicians. Deriding other blacks who swim in the mainstream culture, or who are high achievers in areas outside a narrow band of "acceptable" black fields of activity. And not looking outside their own race for romance.

In Australia there are a heck of a lot of whites. But of all our many many minorities, the majority of them wind up in relationships outside their own ethnic/racial/subculture/religious group. Including getting into relationships with whites, or with ethnics that are their "enemies" back in the "home country". A lot of first generation migrants are married-in. Second generation Australians who come from insular ethnicities and who have been sent to private religious schools also tend to marry in. But as soon as a child gets sent to a non-religious, or state school, the whole marrying-in thing flies out the window, except for coincidental proximity occurrences.

I'm not saying Australia is free of racism, because we're not. A lot of us are very racist. But we seem to be doing a lot better on the issues of no-go zones, and cross-race relationships and families. I seem to remember a question on our census that asks: "list up to 5 of your national heritages." Most of us have grandparents that span wildly diverse nationalities or national heritages. Even I, who is white as white can be, got to pick and choose amongst my most relevant rival Western European and British heritages.
#697 Oct 27 2012 at 5:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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#698Almalieque, Posted: Oct 27 2012 at 5:55 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) There's a reason why Jophiel didn't answer the question. He's smarter than you. Give up, you will only make a fool of yourself.
#699 Oct 27 2012 at 6:06 AM Rating: Default
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Arip wrote:
Looking in from the outside it's wonderful the way so many Americans are still subconsciously racist. Especially so many African Americans, who seem to like to ghettoise themselves. Watching TV with black only performers. Watching/listening to black only musicians. Deriding other blacks who swim in the mainstream culture, or who are high achievers in areas outside a narrow band of "acceptable" black fields of activity. And not looking outside their own race for romance.


Media != reality. Unfortunately, the media plays a major role on how others see you; however it isn't accurate. I see this as I travel the world. When people see me, they think what they see on T.V. and its embarrassing, but that's part of life.

According to the media, all blacks in Africa live in huts half naked starving with flies on them. I don't recall ever seeing any black urban shots of Africa. Everything you see is either in the jungle, Arab violence or in huts. With Arab Africa, you only see people shooting each other and violence. So, when people see the media, that's all they think Africa is.


Arip wrote:
I'm not saying Australia is free of racism, because we're not. A lot of us are very racist. But we seem to be doing a lot better on the issues of no-go zones, and cross-race relationships and families. I seem to remember a question on our census that asks: "list up to 5 of your national heritages." Most of us have grandparents that span wildly diverse nationalities or national heritages. Even I, who is white as white can be, got to pick and choose amongst my most relevant rival Western European and British heritages.


#700 Oct 27 2012 at 6:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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There's a reason why you didn't reply to my second example which also took into account that interpretation of the "B is closer to A than C".

Edited, Oct 27th 2012 8:08am by TirithRR
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#701 Oct 27 2012 at 7:48 AM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
Media != reality. Unfortunately, the media plays a major role on how others see you; however it isn't accurate. I see this as I travel the world. When people see me, they think what they see on T.V. and its embarrassing, but that's part of life.

According to the media, all blacks in Africa live in huts half naked starving with flies on them. I don't recall ever seeing any black urban shots of Africa. Everything you see is either in the jungle, Arab violence or in huts. With Arab Africa, you only see people shooting each other and violence. So, when people see the media, that's all they think Africa is.

Maybe according to the media you watch. Or the media available in the USA. The media window into Africa from Australia is MUCH more diverse than that, especially according to the more serious Foreign Correspondent documentaries/current affairs programmes on the TV and radio.
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