Atheism or agnosticism?Follow

Frankly, that seems like an ancillary distraction when he said he changed his views because of how he saw women acting.

As a child, I was locked in a cage with only a dictionary to keep me company.

I had that, but with the Encyclopaedia Britannica. It's why I'm so awesome at pub quizzes.

No, you only stated that it wasn't. You stating that it isn't arbitrary doesn't make not arbitrary. If that weren't the case, we wouldn't have debates with late-term abortions. All 9 months are part of the person's life. The only difference is, some people are more comfortable ceasing growth at different stages of life than others.

So, what's the difference between 24 weeks and 24 weeks and 2 days?



Exactly!!!

You went into my next question. So, you agree that although a fact may become more factual with more information, any new unaligned information discredits the previous "fact" as no longer being a fact.

Now, don't forget what you said, I'm moving onto "Scientific Theory" now.

Do you agree with the definition that I quoted that Scientific theories are "constructed to explain, predict, and master phenomena"?

The foetus has a slightly better chance of survival at 24 weeks and 2 days?

Look, before week 24, the foetus has no realistic chance of survival if a premature birth occurs. Look, check this graph. This is why the cut off is 24 weeks. Before 24 weeks, it is not a viable life form in it's own right. Afterwards, it is. Relatively speaking.



No I gave you a for instance that would actually discredit the fact. Like, unequivocally discredit the fact. Other unaligned information can be used to narrow down the margin of error we associate with that fact, and give us new facts to work iwith.

Right!

Yes, because that's what I said about 3 posts ago.

If it were recently, the only thing I remember is their views on joint bank accounts. I brought up a thread about my female co-workers who all had their own bank accounts as opposed to joint bank accounts. My belief was/is that I'm not against having separate bank accounts, but I do think it's important to have at least one joint account. I'm not quite sure how that degrades women.

What about marriage? What did I say about marriage that degrades women?

I just find it funny for a person who's friends are all females to be considered to degrade women. You really just have no idea. You know that really nice guy who the girl wants to talk about ALL of their problems with, even when they have a significant other and he gets stuck in the "friend zone"? Yea, that happens to me a lot. "The nice guy always finish last" is my life motto.

Girls like talking to me because I always listen to what they have to say no matter what it is and I usually tell them how it is from my stand point. Further more, they feel comfortable around me as I have proven my self-control. It maybe just my luck, but the people I know, i.e. the pregnant female at work I was talking about, have some pretty effed up issues. I can probably write a book on sob-stories.

Point: There's nothing you can say to convince me that I think bad of women. The number one advice I get from all of my female friends is "Don't let girls use you". Matter of fact, I was told that today in a facebook message.

No one is denying that.



So, in other words, that slight difference isn't anything significant, where the increase of survivability, is the same amount of decrease at 23 weeks and 5 days.

In any case, if there's almost no chance of survival, why are women having abortions prior to 24 weeks? You said earlier that if it were known that the baby wouldn't survive then the woman wouldn't have an abortion. Now you're claiming that the survival rate is really low prior to 24 weeks, so it's ok to have abortions. Well, if women wouldn't have an abortion if they knew the fetus wouldn't survive, wouldn't that mean abortions should only happen AFTER the 24 weeks when you know for sure it will survive or not? Why kick a man when he's down?



Let me clarify this before I move on then. That is partially what I meant by "although a fact may become more factual with more information".

What's an example of a fact having a margin of error reduced? I interpreted a fact as being objectively true. In other words, any margin of error is taking away the validity of that fact.

What are you babbling about? See the bolded section, it's important. An abortion essentially amounts to a forced premature birth. Expulsion of the foetus from the uterus. Viability refers to how likely a foetus is to survive outside of the uterus at that stage of pregnancy. Before 24 weeks the viability is negligible.

If you want to really get into a viability discussion, lets talk about what happens at 12 weeks. Prior to the 12 week mark, there is approximately a 50% chance of spontaneous abortion (miscarriage). After 12 weeks, if you're still pregnant it will probably go the term. This is one of the reasons my friend, who is a nurse, decided not to tell her family about her pregnancy until this point.

Now, that being said, the foetus after 12 weeks, regardless of it's probability of reaching full development significantly increasing, it is still not viable outside of the Uterus. This is why 24 weeks is significant!

Do you understand what I am telling you?



A fact is a fact is a fact unless it is completely discredited by new information.

Okay, there is the fact that there is Gravity, yes? Using his knowledge of gravity, Newton successfully plotted the orbits of the planets around the Sun. He managed this despite not knowing what gravity actually is or what mass does to space. We had to wait for Einstein to find out the fact that mass curves space. This new fact helped Einstein to build upon Newton's theories and hypotheses. We can now, more accurately predict the orbits of celestial bodies. New facts, less margin of error, old facts still intact.

Would have, but doesn't now? Glad to hear your pro-choice support.

The fact that you keep referring to proofs in this context is laughable. Nothing in the physical sciences is proven. That is a thing which does not happen outside of mathematics. Despite being told this again and again you insist on pretending that it is not the case. Theories in the physical sciences are built on empirical evidence, which has fucking nothing to do with either field you (claim to have) studied. It's not "emotional lashing out". It comes from a deep-seated knowledge of how mathematics and computer science work, and a recognition of how hard, physical sciences work, and it is that latter understanding which you lack. The fact that you've gotten your panties all in a twist because somebody on this forum knows more in your (alleged) respective fields than you is not my problem.

Edited, May 5th 2011 9:37pm by Majivo

I wouldn't bother, Majivo. If I've not gotten through to him by now no one will.

So, once one sperm fertilizes one egg, they will become a human being without need of assistance form me or anyone? If everyone just leaves it alone, it grows all by itself? Want to rethink that...?



But... I didn't. I just told you that if I had parents sh*tty enough to tell me as I was growing up that they wish they had aborted me, then I would've rather been aborted. Regardless, I'll ask my pregnant co-worker to have a meaningful conversation with her fetus tomorrow and find out what it feels about... well, anything. Something tells me that it won't be much of a conversation, but you seem to be implying that a fetus will be sad and hurt if the woman aborts it.

Interesting.



And I was talking about everything, not just the action. I'm being more logical, and more realistic than you are.



No. It's actually based on any number of things, many of which have already been pointed out to you. I do find it interesting, however, that in your defense of yourself, in trying to explain just how wonderful you are and how much you respect women, you managed to blame women on your being single. Interesting, that. It certainly can't be some flaw in yourself, it's got to be just that "good guys finish last." Certainly....

Edited, May 5th 2011 10:25pm by Belkira

Only weird people think they are the sole support system for someone, and that they're special for listening to their friends' problems. It's pretty much the bare minimum. Only weird people think that relationships don't have times where you want to vent about your partner being an occasional jerk. Only weird people will secretly castigate a friend in an actual abusive relationship, rather than empathize with a horrible situation where they need your love more than ever. Only weird people would ever say that they're "stuck" as friends. If you find friendship so repressive, it might be a sign to reevaluate you priorities.

That is, unless they're offended that women have the nerve to take their friendship at face value.