Fear terrorists? Nah, fear stupidity.Follow

Da da da da da!!! I'm lovin' it!

Duh! I'd do it while on a business trip. Some of those executive suites have some pretty nice bibles in them.

You think they'd charge my corporate card if a bible mysteriously went missing? Hmmm...

I really just wanted to say "HI" and give all of you a hug.

Then I got sidetracked when I noticed something.

I am neither a creationist or an evolutionist. I'm one of those crazy fence riders. However, with all the bible-thumping going on in here I need to point something important out. The Catholic Church has admitted to omitting and adding books the bible. Heard about that? Aparently they took it upon themselves to try and figure out what books they wanted us to read and discarded the ones that were harmfull to the CHURCH. So really, no matter how well the bible is translated, we may never know the whole story. Which is precicely what it is. The bible was not written to be interpreted literally, yeesh, if you believe that then you are both stupid AND blind. The bible was written to convay a message, or several messages if you will, about how several people say we should run our lives. I'm not saying its not a good message, but it was still written by man, and therefore, fallable. Think about that if you would.

I believe a great Christian and an even greater Scientist said:
"Without Religion, Science is merely lame. Without Science, Religion is blind."

Guess who said that? Comeon..... guess
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Give up?
The MAN himself,
Albert Einstein

Or entice him...

Taken from CNN.com

Yossarian made a reference to this so I thought I'd find a news report to clarify what he/she was talking about.

Thanks Yanari. Gee I shouldn't be so lazy :)

Earlier US history: the Scopes trial where two famous orators debated the virtues and faults of evolution vs. creationsim:

http://www.sciencefriday.com/pages/2000/Jul/hour2_072100.html

This trial occured in the 1925 (thus the 75th anaversary was in 2000, when this radio program was done) and it was not until 1967 that Tennasee allowd people to teach evolution, at all.

Theoretically, the US supreme court decided that banning the teaching of evolution altogether was unconstitutional in 1968, but I guess nobody told Kansas :)

Just to let you all know that this debate has gone on forever in US history and it probably will continue to do so.

By the way, our president, W his own self, believes in creationaism.

FYI for info...not arguing anything anymore:

(this is pieces from a convo with my friend and I. for his entire entry -> http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=sinai )

Abbe George Lemaitre - creator of the Big Bang theory -catholic priest
Gregor Mendel - began gene research with pea plants - catholic monk
Edward Blyth - founder of the theory of natural selection - scientist, Church of England
all "theories" scientists use to try and disprove the existence of God that were in fact, created by men of faith

George Lemaître. Belgian Catholic priest who initially conceived the idea that the universe was created in one explosion beginning from what he called the space-egg.

This guy toured with Albert Einstein (maybe you've heard of him, he's the 50 Cent of science) and in the year 1933, upon hearing Lemaître's lecture on creation, he is quoted as saying, “This is the most beautiful and satisfactory explanation of creation to which I have ever listened."

science can look all day and try to explain the chemicals and temperature and the situation of the creation but they have yet to commit to an answer.

Edited, Sat Feb 14 02:05:53 2004 by Empyre

Edited, Sat Feb 14 02:08:29 2004 by Empyre

dont gotta convince me smash. our destiny is predetermined by our creator...he's already picked out the ones he's gonna save and the ones that aren't gonna make it. that's why i stopped arguing this...when it became less of a debate and more of an "i'm right so there" thing. like i said..it makes no sense to argue it..my post was just interesting fact that was brought to my attention and thought I'd share for those interested.

i don't think..i know. its quite simple really. because he says so. if you believe in him he allows you to communicate with him. the bible is the written word of God. but that's just the beginning. even that though, is cryptic to everyone but believers.

i don't expect a non-believer to understand...its just at times i kinda hope for it.

why do you think someone told me to? your mislead if you think so. I ran far away from God when someone told me to. believing in him and growing in my walk with him was of my own decision long after.

its not about doing what your told...it wont work. he wants people that are going to truly believe in him sincerely..i can sympathize with that. if i created a person and gave them free will, but had to rely on their faith in order to make their decision whether i existed or not, i would hope they would do the same.

we all think this world is a big complicated mess of chemicals and elements, causes and effects. for me...heh..we'll all see more clearly more sooner than later.

thats something thats taken about 27 years. if i had to summon (EDIT: sum. been playing the mage too much) it down to a moment or two, i'll be straight with you and reveal personal info at the risk of it getting thrown in my face by whoever.

I have suffered from many mental conditions for a while. some of which include ADD, OCD, panic disorder and anxiety disorder complicated by agoraphobia. when attacked, usually I would need to get to a safe place..what i considered home.

long story short, one time I was locked out of my room (i lived in a house with 2 other roommates) during an attack..with no way to get ahold of anyone that could help. i tore the house apart looking for a screwdriver or coat hanger to assist my getting in, and even tried bashing the door in..finally i curled into a ball and waited to die.

while doing so i finally prayed. i asked God to help me. I told him I believed in him...that i did not need any proof anymore (something I had been asking for for years). and i genuinely believed in my heart...but that now I needed his help. and that if he could help me find the tools i needed to get into the room I would never doubt again.

as hard as it may seem to believe (and i'm sure someone can come up with a "proveable explanation"), i walked down into the garage (where i had previously rampaged through looking for any tools and found none), moved the first box I saw at the door and there sat a screwdriver...not far away was a clotheshanger. I went upstairs and in 10 minutes was in my room by removing the door frame with the screwdriver and feeding a bent coathanger in to physically open the lock (couldnt do it again if you asked me).

the next night I was still pondering over why my attacks were coming back (had been out of therapy for years), when a late night evangelist came across one of the channels. later investigation of the guy proved him to be someone I didnt really feel was teaching the bible properly, but for the 45 minutes to an hour I heard him that night, every answer to every question I had about God, the world and everything..was answered. I had spent many years previous to that travelling around the world trying to find my own answers but had many gaps that just didnt make sense. I sat that night with my jaw on the floor and vowed from that day forward I no longer had to question my beliefs..its now a reality to me.

its only gotten easier since then. sure, there's been challenges...times when I've been pushed to the edge of my sanity. the difference is now I have the strength to get through instead of popping 4 different types of pills and blaming the world..and i come out stronger in the end. coincidence? maybe to some. the truth is only revealed to those that believe though..and belief has to be sincere and genuine..theres no fooling God. trust me, i've tried.

glad you asked?

Edited, Sat Feb 14 05:10:39 2004 by Empyre

its not necessarily brainwashing. of course, there is always the ones that are exceptions..the ones in it for the wrong reason. but for some, its a reality. its like me trying to tell you this board and this forum does not exist..you know better because you've seen it.

well some of us have chosen to believe, and in turn God has shown us he exists. i know that is difficult, and in most cases impossible, to except or understand..but if you cannot understand that, understand that there is a barrier between a believer and a non-believer. no man on this earth has the power to "turn" another into a believer. the curiousity and the decision to turn to a path of a believer has to be one of the individual. as much as many christians may believe, we cannot.

the only thing we can do is speak of our own experiences, and tell stories of the bible, etc in hopes that someone may GET curious enough to investigate on their own...the rest is up to christ. we also have to be careful not to shove these things down peoples' throats..which is why in most cases I do not share information unless its invited. that does not further our cause at all..and thats what many need to understand.

there is also the same false doctrine that plagues the "science" world as well. for some reason, "false prophets" in the science world DO further their cause. as my friend says, "It looks like to me that "modern scientists" just like to steal ideas from religious men, take God out of the equation, publish, and call it theirs..." sinai

Here's my view of religion in all it's guises:

If you want to follow a given moral or ethical code because you believe that a higher power communicated it to someone else who communicated it to you, or a higher power communicated it to you directly, that's great.

If you want something to be believed as absolute fact because of that last paragraph I have a real problem. I have lots of beliefs. One of the primary ones, however, is that everything I believe in could turn out to be wrong, and if it does I'll modify my beliefs accordingly.

Here's the thing I don't quite understand about the evolution "debate": There's absolutely no reason that creationism and evolution can't co-exist Unless you take what's written in the Bible literally.

If you're taking what's written in the Bible litterally then you're chosing to believe in a God who is at once ominicent, infalible, and omnipotent, but who condradicts his own teachings constantly.

Were I to accept the general tenets of the Judeo-Christian belief system (and I don't) I think I'd have to be at least willing to accept that the translation of God's word through his Earthly vessels was tarnished at best by those Earthly vessel's percption of what thier God was trying to communicate.

It's clear in scripture that this happens quite often, causing God to speak to prophet's to clarify his meanings all through the Bible. There is no place in the Bible where the words of God, or Chrsit, are written verbatim by the Allmighty. There is no personal gospel of Christ, merely the reflections of his experiences seen by his Desciples. This is why Matthew, Mark, Luke and John often see identical events very diffrently. The Bible is a book full of mistakes. Who's to say that not mentioning Evolution isn't one of them?

If we're going to tech children creationism then we should be teaching them everything the Bible contains including killing witches, not touching the skin of a pig, and all the other crazy stuff in Leviticus. Christ never mentions the Creation, so if you're a Christian who belives in Crationism you're relying on the Old Testament which contains, among other things, warnings that the vengeful god will litterally kill those who mock him. A god who sends bears to tear apart children who mock a prophet's bald head. A god who kills the first born sons of those who don't smear lambs blood in the correct place and a god who floods the entire planet destroying every living thing in a fit of vengance.

Oddly I don't see any protests of pork chops being served in public schools by Chrsitians. If you're going to take the Bible as a document of God and enforce it's teahings on people it shouldn't be done peacmeal. Even the Bible instructs people not to pick and choose what they believe of it.