I'm going to name names.
The other night, I was in Jeuno, looking to get level 36 whm, Crawler's Nest. I got invited by Scernia, a BLM I'd seen in other parties around me as I hobbled through the 30s.
Slim pickings that time of night. We needed another support job in the party. There was a JP bard LFP. Scernia invited him.
{English} {Party} {No thanks.}
According to Scernia, he's "stuck up". I just brushed this off--he's got his reasons for not joining a NA party, but whatever. It's a little frustrating trying to manage a party with so few choices. And then this snippet of conversation happened (and I have the screencaps to prove it):
(Scernia) Blm Backed out
(Scernia) Brd stuck up
(Scernia) I asked
(Scernia) He said no
(Elixiru) JP aren't stuck up because they want to play with people who speak their own language
(Scernia) Then I spammed him
(Elixiru) WTF did you do that for?
...
I was slightly dumbfounded. Scernia was spamming a JP bard because he was "prejudiced". That would have just reinforced his reasons for not joining NA parties.
(Scernia) Not just me got 5 other ppl spamming ATM as well.
(Elixiru) F**k you. {Disbanding party.}
The rest of the party left within 60 seconds, as they'd lost their whm.
Why? Why?
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JP/NA Relations (quasi-rant)Follow
hmm... Scernia is an NA player? or just one of the group of people that fall by default into the NA group just cos they aren't JP?
not that it really matters, just that Scernia is definitely not someone i'd like to party with. given the same situation, i'd have disbanded near immediately too. just cos.
not that it really matters, just that Scernia is definitely not someone i'd like to party with. given the same situation, i'd have disbanded near immediately too. just cos.
Ouch, that can be a touchy subject.
First off, I try to enjoy the game as much as possible without taking too much of it personal. Some people take that a JP player turning down a party invite as personal. Now some JP don't like Americans but that doesnt mean they are gonna turn down a party invite. Here are a couple of reasons I've found.
1. Japanese tend to party for a looooonnnnggg time. Three hours seem to be the most I've been told prefered (by JP of course). The difference between NA players is that you have people comeing and going out of parties for various reasons which causes down time and various other things.
2. Mobs mobs mobs
Alot of NA parties tend to go with the high exp mobs leading to many chain 3's and such. Now JP parties will go for more safer mobs with a little less exp going to several chain 5's. Not saying that NA parties don't do the same, but JP parties seem to be more prone to do this.
3. For all those who have been in a Japenese party and new some Japenese, but not well enough to read as fast as they were going, it goes both ways. And do you really want to auto translate everything for one person? Alot of stuff you can't auto translate.
Now, on occasion, I have ran accross a prejudice Japanese who wouldn't give someone a raise or such cause they were NA. But then again, I have ran accross the NA who wouldn't give a raise cause they were asked using Autotranslate due to the fact that the persons name looked as if the were JP.
All in all, I can't help but remember the JP nin who helped me do the dragoon quest and wouldn't allow me to pay her. Or the JP sam and Whm who helped me do AF1 for Drk when all 50 of the people in yag land wouldn't even respond when I asked. The fight took like 2 minutes if that.
Also, try and remember, each person in the party may of had their reasons for getting so upset. Most people wont spam someone for turning down a party invite unless they had some reason for getting so upset.
So, please don't be too mad at those people who were in your party that night (or day). Why let the bad karma be on yourself. If they were wrong, people tend to have ways of getting whats comeing to them.
But also remember, when people just aint nice to you
/blist add
It's all part of online games.
/sigh
work sucks.
First off, I try to enjoy the game as much as possible without taking too much of it personal. Some people take that a JP player turning down a party invite as personal. Now some JP don't like Americans but that doesnt mean they are gonna turn down a party invite. Here are a couple of reasons I've found.
1. Japanese tend to party for a looooonnnnggg time. Three hours seem to be the most I've been told prefered (by JP of course). The difference between NA players is that you have people comeing and going out of parties for various reasons which causes down time and various other things.
2. Mobs mobs mobs
Alot of NA parties tend to go with the high exp mobs leading to many chain 3's and such. Now JP parties will go for more safer mobs with a little less exp going to several chain 5's. Not saying that NA parties don't do the same, but JP parties seem to be more prone to do this.
3. For all those who have been in a Japenese party and new some Japenese, but not well enough to read as fast as they were going, it goes both ways. And do you really want to auto translate everything for one person? Alot of stuff you can't auto translate.
Now, on occasion, I have ran accross a prejudice Japanese who wouldn't give someone a raise or such cause they were NA. But then again, I have ran accross the NA who wouldn't give a raise cause they were asked using Autotranslate due to the fact that the persons name looked as if the were JP.
All in all, I can't help but remember the JP nin who helped me do the dragoon quest and wouldn't allow me to pay her. Or the JP sam and Whm who helped me do AF1 for Drk when all 50 of the people in yag land wouldn't even respond when I asked. The fight took like 2 minutes if that.
Also, try and remember, each person in the party may of had their reasons for getting so upset. Most people wont spam someone for turning down a party invite unless they had some reason for getting so upset.
So, please don't be too mad at those people who were in your party that night (or day). Why let the bad karma be on yourself. If they were wrong, people tend to have ways of getting whats comeing to them.
But also remember, when people just aint nice to you
/blist add
It's all part of online games.
/sigh
work sucks.
Rate up Lebron for realizing sometimes it's just best to move on and let what's coming to them, come.
Elixiru,
Yeah I can't stand people that overreact like that and flip the hypocrite switch. Leaving the PT was the right thing to do to just avoid further confrontation.
Lebron pretty much covered the rest. :-b
Elixiru,
Yeah I can't stand people that overreact like that and flip the hypocrite switch. Leaving the PT was the right thing to do to just avoid further confrontation.
Lebron pretty much covered the rest. :-b
No matter whether the other person is JP or NA or not, he/she has the right not to join anyone's PT for whatever reason. Spaming that person is just outright wrong.
In this case. reason given is understandable. Bards do require good ability to communicate with other members of the PT.
Something good to do when making a pt:
1) Use "Please" when making a pt. Try not to be too oversimplified in asking people to join or not. Typing please do not cost you a lot of time.
2) If someone says no, just move on. And say thanks to that person. OP's situation can be avoided easily. I myself run into way too many times people will not reply to you after you say no. Just say thanks for replying is good karma.
3) It is possible that person you ask is AFK, give him sometime to reply. Be patient! A good pt requires patience to make. I am someone that does not like the argument "Some exp is exp" type of altitude. At post level 50 pt, I believe any reasonable pt (not those 4 RNGs or 4 BLM PTs) should be able to do 3k / hour at least.
4) If your pt has someone you do not like, do not voice it out directly. /tell the leader directly that you do not want to work with this person. There are dipolmatic way to resolve a conflict.
Edit / PS: How to help to make a good PT:
1) Use search comment. Give the info what you are @, what weapons you can use, and what sub jobs you can use. Do you have Sky? Altep Gate Crystal? Yhoat Gate Crystal? What food do you use?
2) Check ahead if potential camps are crowded. Research viable camps.... Crawlers Nest Crawlers Nest Crawlers Nest Crawlers Nest Crawlers Nest (heh.... there are other places you can go o.O;;; , if you don't know, ask me)
3) Check the skill chain table when inviting people! There are certain jobs that get along better. FYI, you don't have to do RNG RNG RNG RNG to do super umber damage. There are certain jobs that go along well when skill chain is considered and good firepower can be done.
4) Mages should bring drinks (or materials that can be used to make drinks) in any pre-40 pt (unless you have Bard), or any post 40 pt that has no Red Mage / Bard. You will be surprised how much better that can do... Cooking is cheap to level -- I encourage everyone to level it until you can make Pineapple Juices.
Edited, Tue Jun 21 11:14:17 2005 by scchan
In this case. reason given is understandable. Bards do require good ability to communicate with other members of the PT.
Something good to do when making a pt:
1) Use "Please" when making a pt. Try not to be too oversimplified in asking people to join or not. Typing please do not cost you a lot of time.
2) If someone says no, just move on. And say thanks to that person. OP's situation can be avoided easily. I myself run into way too many times people will not reply to you after you say no. Just say thanks for replying is good karma.
3) It is possible that person you ask is AFK, give him sometime to reply. Be patient! A good pt requires patience to make. I am someone that does not like the argument "Some exp is exp" type of altitude. At post level 50 pt, I believe any reasonable pt (not those 4 RNGs or 4 BLM PTs) should be able to do 3k / hour at least.
4) If your pt has someone you do not like, do not voice it out directly. /tell the leader directly that you do not want to work with this person. There are dipolmatic way to resolve a conflict.
Edit / PS: How to help to make a good PT:
1) Use search comment. Give the info what you are @, what weapons you can use, and what sub jobs you can use. Do you have Sky? Altep Gate Crystal? Yhoat Gate Crystal? What food do you use?
2) Check ahead if potential camps are crowded. Research viable camps.... Crawlers Nest Crawlers Nest Crawlers Nest Crawlers Nest Crawlers Nest (heh.... there are other places you can go o.O;;; , if you don't know, ask me)
3) Check the skill chain table when inviting people! There are certain jobs that get along better. FYI, you don't have to do RNG RNG RNG RNG to do super umber damage. There are certain jobs that go along well when skill chain is considered and good firepower can be done.
4) Mages should bring drinks (or materials that can be used to make drinks) in any pre-40 pt (unless you have Bard), or any post 40 pt that has no Red Mage / Bard. You will be surprised how much better that can do... Cooking is cheap to level -- I encourage everyone to level it until you can make Pineapple Juices.
Edited, Tue Jun 21 11:14:17 2005 by scchan
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
On the upside, many JP are friendly and willing to PT with anyone that can use the AT.
I owe many thanks to the JP rng that not only SAVED my outmatched taru whm butt in Palborough Mines trying to foolishly solo my key (EES solves a lot of problems), but then went on and farmed my key for me, and even escorted me straight back to Bastok!
And it doesn't have to be that way, either. Help can come the other way. I made a JP friend last night. Levelling brd with an LS friend, who was levelling summoner. We had passed a white mage heading out of Windurst, and went to the canyon. Ate dirt in the canyon. (Stupid air elementals with huge aggro range.) As we were heading out to tackle something a bit easier, we came across that same poor white mage, eating dirt. Called for a raise, then we invited him into the party so we could heal him and buff him up a bit. He was level 6, both of us 8. I asked if he wanted to party. He did! So we went and exp'ed for a couple hours together, using what little Japanese we knew and the AT to communicate with him. It was so much fun. WAY more fun than, say, grinding to level 37 in the Crawler's Nest.
I gave him a few apple pies and such for goodwill. I think we really made his day. At the end, I showed him all the elemental spirits, as he hadn't seen most of them. (I only have Carby for an avatar. T T) He loved the Light Spirit. :D
So, NA karma +1. Making friends one at a time.
I owe many thanks to the JP rng that not only SAVED my outmatched taru whm butt in Palborough Mines trying to foolishly solo my key (EES solves a lot of problems), but then went on and farmed my key for me, and even escorted me straight back to Bastok!
And it doesn't have to be that way, either. Help can come the other way. I made a JP friend last night. Levelling brd with an LS friend, who was levelling summoner. We had passed a white mage heading out of Windurst, and went to the canyon. Ate dirt in the canyon. (Stupid air elementals with huge aggro range.) As we were heading out to tackle something a bit easier, we came across that same poor white mage, eating dirt. Called for a raise, then we invited him into the party so we could heal him and buff him up a bit. He was level 6, both of us 8. I asked if he wanted to party. He did! So we went and exp'ed for a couple hours together, using what little Japanese we knew and the AT to communicate with him. It was so much fun. WAY more fun than, say, grinding to level 37 in the Crawler's Nest.
I gave him a few apple pies and such for goodwill. I think we really made his day. At the end, I showed him all the elemental spirits, as he hadn't seen most of them. (I only have Carby for an avatar. T T) He loved the Light Spirit. :D
So, NA karma +1. Making friends one at a time.
yeah.. sadly it's easier to get along with alot of Jp players than NA. I'm not saying names, but I had a run in with a NA character in horroto ruins that was ruining a little farming run (needed some onions so a friend could bet blaze spikes) by killing off alot of my train. when i asked why he did that, he said "tell someone who cares".
Now, I would be lieing if I said i didn't retort. I still didn't loose my temper sadly to say, but I kinda wish i did. But i did send a tell or two before he was added to the good old blist.
Sadly enough to say, the only people who get added to my blist seem to be palidans with chips on there shoulders. What happened to the good old friendly palidans like Meridius and Devidion (think i spelt that right).
But, this kinda of stuff happens when playing online rpg's. Soooo oh well. he was out of my life within a 4 minute time span and the world turned.
Now all we have to do is set the traps... lol
Now, I would be lieing if I said i didn't retort. I still didn't loose my temper sadly to say, but I kinda wish i did. But i did send a tell or two before he was added to the good old blist.
Sadly enough to say, the only people who get added to my blist seem to be palidans with chips on there shoulders. What happened to the good old friendly palidans like Meridius and Devidion (think i spelt that right).
But, this kinda of stuff happens when playing online rpg's. Soooo oh well. he was out of my life within a 4 minute time span and the world turned.
Now all we have to do is set the traps... lol
I love inviting JP players to my parties, they always seem to know their job very well, and actually work really well with the other members in my party whether they are JP or NA. And back to what the OP was saying, yea, the spamming thing was wrong.
I'm a paladin. ; ;
Quote:
Sadly enough to say, the only people who get added to my blist seem to be palidans with chips on there shoulders.
I'm a paladin. ; ;
awwww, don't worry, I do love Pallys. It's just that alot of people let the job go to their head. Seriously, that is one of the easiest jobs to level. That, whitemage, nin, war/nin, and Ranger. people want want them jobs in parties. That doesn't mean they should be rude to others. I once had a pally in the jungle who didn't want to take gobs at level 31. so when the ranger pulled a gob, he used invincible to get aggro, and zoned it. There was a pally on gob watch wondering what the guy was doing.
Thankfully, the whm left, and he left while we were waiting for a whm. After wards, we got another whm, and I tanked the gobs as drk till we got another tank.
Luckly, most pally's arn't like that. But there are those that stand out O.o
Edited, Sun Jun 26 06:45:01 2005 by freakymescan
Thankfully, the whm left, and he left while we were waiting for a whm. After wards, we got another whm, and I tanked the gobs as drk till we got another tank.
Luckly, most pally's arn't like that. But there are those that stand out O.o
Edited, Sun Jun 26 06:45:01 2005 by freakymescan
It is sad to see a lot of JP only or JP botter threads in the main forums >< People are quick to blame others for problems, and not look into their own problems....
I have met some of the nicest JP people in our server, and I have a lot of JP friends. Most of them are friendlier if you treat them nice and try hard to communicate with them (in a polite, fair, and equal manner).
Sometimes people critize me being anti-NA or overly critical, but sometimes it is good to be critical, and I do have my fair grudge against non-NA players. I do admit in terms of communications and karma, I have better experience with non-NA than NA.
I have met some of the nicest JP people in our server, and I have a lot of JP friends. Most of them are friendlier if you treat them nice and try hard to communicate with them (in a polite, fair, and equal manner).
Sometimes people critize me being anti-NA or overly critical, but sometimes it is good to be critical, and I do have my fair grudge against non-NA players. I do admit in terms of communications and karma, I have better experience with non-NA than NA.
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Quote:
4) Mages should bring drinks (or materials that can be used to make drinks) in any pre-40 pt (unless you have Bard), or any post 40 pt that has no Red Mage / Bard. You will be surprised how much better that can do... Cooking is cheap to level -- I encourage everyone to level it until you can make Pineapple Juices.
Yagudo drinks are useless. You're lucky if you even get to chain 2 without a RDM or BRD. Hey, you're lucky if your tank is up to date on gear. I did all of that jazz, drinks, pineapple juices, pies..it doesn't make a difference, you'll only burn through them all in a matter of minutes. So what I do is stack up on HMP foods. That's pretty much all that works for me.
The assumption that JP don't like NA, is very correct. Having learned this from 2 english speaking JP players. They have told me that is alot of JP players like them who speak english and respect english(EU)americans(US), but there are out numbered by what you people came to label as "prejudice" JP players. The main point however is that they do not wish to play with english speaking players because of our language. They DO know it. YES they LIE about not knowing it. They do not understand the language -- the japanese is not very big on making mistakes, they are perfectionists, I wouldnt mess with something I have no understanding of either.
Just know the ones you do party with..those are the few who are trying deal with NA parties. They are always nice and understanding of battle tactics, and they don't mind "lots of auto-trnaslator" usage, believe me they WANT to know what you're trying to say if you need to tell them something.
Things kina work both ways... you see a lot of "JP only" and "Full JP PT only"... its not really what the game is about, reason why we have don't have english server, JP server is becoz it is a global MMORPG, reason we have auto translate stuff is becoz SE's aim was to have everyone work together. The way that everything is about team work in this game can be an A$$ sometimes, but i think that whatz make this game special and last long.
i'm not saying its just JP who does this.. more and more i see JP-haters and "NA only" on NA's search comments. Sure seems like a norm now, how JP have their own world, and NA have their own world... us poor europeans are stuck in between XD.
i think i've came across more arrogant JP than arrogant NAs, might be becoz my play time is more leaning towards the JP peak time, i lfp for hours and see no replys. So i guess my reply are kina shooting towards that @_@; but yea, i admit, i've heard a lotta ENG/NA/whatever says "I hate JPs, stupid JP pts, etc etc.." more nasty things too of course ^^;
but coz of my play hours i've tried to make my own pt, and some of them are reasonable if you ask something like,
{Excuse me...}{Experience Points}{Party}{Do you need it?} {Member} = JP + ENG ok? ^^;
some generally say yes and ok and stuff. but then you come across some goes:
{I'm sorry.}{English}{Party}{I'm not up for it} {Good bye.}
which jst kina make you go.. /fume
and very much often they ignore you, they obviously ignored you.... or some says {i don't speak any english}. well, i didn't ask you anything in english.... there is a reason why SE got a auto translated function up... i can understand if you don't want to party wiht like a full eng pt, sometimes it does makes you feel that they're being more racist than anything...
like {English} {Leader} {No thanks}
it does feel like. they're being rude, or just simply following a norm they had for ages. JP only seems like a norm to put in their search comment now-adays..
long and pointless, sorry ><;
i'm not saying its just JP who does this.. more and more i see JP-haters and "NA only" on NA's search comments. Sure seems like a norm now, how JP have their own world, and NA have their own world... us poor europeans are stuck in between XD.
i think i've came across more arrogant JP than arrogant NAs, might be becoz my play time is more leaning towards the JP peak time, i lfp for hours and see no replys. So i guess my reply are kina shooting towards that @_@; but yea, i admit, i've heard a lotta ENG/NA/whatever says "I hate JPs, stupid JP pts, etc etc.." more nasty things too of course ^^;
but coz of my play hours i've tried to make my own pt, and some of them are reasonable if you ask something like,
{Excuse me...}{Experience Points}{Party}{Do you need it?} {Member} = JP + ENG ok? ^^;
some generally say yes and ok and stuff. but then you come across some goes:
{I'm sorry.}{English}{Party}{I'm not up for it} {Good bye.}
which jst kina make you go.. /fume
and very much often they ignore you, they obviously ignored you.... or some says {i don't speak any english}. well, i didn't ask you anything in english.... there is a reason why SE got a auto translated function up... i can understand if you don't want to party wiht like a full eng pt, sometimes it does makes you feel that they're being more racist than anything...
like {English} {Leader} {No thanks}
it does feel like. they're being rude, or just simply following a norm they had for ages. JP only seems like a norm to put in their search comment now-adays..
long and pointless, sorry ><;
Just remember people do not have the responsbility to join your PT, and understand that language can be an issue. I think just expect less from others will really help. A lot of people get worked up because a non-NA turned down an invite and delays the PT. But anybody has the right not to PT, you cannot make someone to play with you regardless of reason.
I personally admit being tri-lingual makes a huge difference to me in terms of communicating in the game. A lot of players regardless of nationality are really nice. But the few bad blood and fights really can make the relationships really bad.
Spira, if you have ran into Sofa or Waru, try to talk to them (you can mention my name -- not sure if Waru still remembers me, but I think he do). Sofa is a JP player that speaks really good english and Waru is pretty open in talking to non JP players even he may not understand what you mean.
I personally admit being tri-lingual makes a huge difference to me in terms of communicating in the game. A lot of players regardless of nationality are really nice. But the few bad blood and fights really can make the relationships really bad.
Spira, if you have ran into Sofa or Waru, try to talk to them (you can mention my name -- not sure if Waru still remembers me, but I think he do). Sofa is a JP player that speaks really good english and Waru is pretty open in talking to non JP players even he may not understand what you mean.
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
I've noticed that some that use the {I don't speak any english} are not necessarily saying no. They are just letting you know that they don't. I've followed that up with {Party} ok ^^ and they are generally happy to join.
Some I think are just making sure that they are not required to speak english and that there is someone willing to auto-translate to communicate as well as possible.
I've been in all JP parties where nobody spoke English (at least not very well) and I felt like I was doing something wrong constantly. I felt uncomfortable just because I couldn't ask how they wanted to handle certain situations (I sucked with auto-translate at that time). I can understand why some of the JP players are hesitant to join.
Anyways, I think this deserves Ama's lil emoticon with the dead horse. LoL.
We can debate this til we're blue in the face. Some people will be offended, some comments are intended to be offensive, some are not. Try to realize that not all are being supremist/racist and just move on if you don't like what someone has to say.
Some I think are just making sure that they are not required to speak english and that there is someone willing to auto-translate to communicate as well as possible.
I've been in all JP parties where nobody spoke English (at least not very well) and I felt like I was doing something wrong constantly. I felt uncomfortable just because I couldn't ask how they wanted to handle certain situations (I sucked with auto-translate at that time). I can understand why some of the JP players are hesitant to join.
Anyways, I think this deserves Ama's lil emoticon with the dead horse. LoL.
We can debate this til we're blue in the face. Some people will be offended, some comments are intended to be offensive, some are not. Try to realize that not all are being supremist/racist and just move on if you don't like what someone has to say.
PS: BTW everyone can use this icon.
[:deadhorse :] (without the space ;) )
Edited, Mon Jun 27 12:34:14 2005 by scchan
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Oh.... I thought you had to be a premium member.
Edit: yep.. premium only I guess...
Edited, Mon Jun 27 12:39:23 2005 by LeetFade
Edit: yep.. premium only I guess...
Edited, Mon Jun 27 12:39:23 2005 by LeetFade
Bah I don't know what exactly people do not have for not being a preimum member o.O;
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Personally, I've had nothing but good experiences with JA players. That being said, I'm sure there are bad ones out there, but I've been lucky enough not to run into them^^
One thing I wanted to note: I've often run into the {I don't any english} response when I ask if they want to PT. My usual response to this is: {I don't speak any Japanese} ww. (For those who may not know, the "ww" is the equivolent of our "lol".)
90% of the time, I get a response with a willingness to PT after.
I like to think that my response does a couple of things. a) shows that I am able to use the translator as least reasonably well b) it doesn't matter to me that they can't speak english; c) that I've taken the time to at least try to learn some of the JA "lingo" and d) that i'm willing to start up a dialog with them despite the language barrier.
I think often times they send the {i don't speak any english} response simply as a fair warning and not as a flat out refusal of the invite. At least that has been my experience. I think most NA players get the {I dont speak english} response and never bother to continue the conversation. They simply move on to the next player.
Perhaps it's more of a cultural difference than "being a snob." It's kind of like if you moved to a different county without being able to speak the language. Are you a snob because you can't communicate with the locals? Is it wrong to prefer to hang with people you can communicate with? of course not...
But with a tiny bit of effort and understanding, you can bridge that gap.
Personally, I enjoy PTing with JA players for the simple reason you CAN'T communicate!! lol. As odd as that sounds, I often times just want to get down to business and get my XP! So no need for the chit chat! And the translator is just fine to do that.
Oh.. and another useful term is "wc" which means you need to use the bathroom!!! lmao. Quite useful when you need to stop for just a minute or two^^
Anyways... hope that helps bridge the cultural gap just a hair!!
One thing I wanted to note: I've often run into the {I don't any english} response when I ask if they want to PT. My usual response to this is: {I don't speak any Japanese} ww. (For those who may not know, the "ww" is the equivolent of our "lol".)
90% of the time, I get a response with a willingness to PT after.
I like to think that my response does a couple of things. a) shows that I am able to use the translator as least reasonably well b) it doesn't matter to me that they can't speak english; c) that I've taken the time to at least try to learn some of the JA "lingo" and d) that i'm willing to start up a dialog with them despite the language barrier.
I think often times they send the {i don't speak any english} response simply as a fair warning and not as a flat out refusal of the invite. At least that has been my experience. I think most NA players get the {I dont speak english} response and never bother to continue the conversation. They simply move on to the next player.
Perhaps it's more of a cultural difference than "being a snob." It's kind of like if you moved to a different county without being able to speak the language. Are you a snob because you can't communicate with the locals? Is it wrong to prefer to hang with people you can communicate with? of course not...
But with a tiny bit of effort and understanding, you can bridge that gap.
Personally, I enjoy PTing with JA players for the simple reason you CAN'T communicate!! lol. As odd as that sounds, I often times just want to get down to business and get my XP! So no need for the chit chat! And the translator is just fine to do that.
Oh.. and another useful term is "wc" which means you need to use the bathroom!!! lmao. Quite useful when you need to stop for just a minute or two^^
Anyways... hope that helps bridge the cultural gap just a hair!!
Whenever I approach a JP (that's not set JE) for a party, I usually use: {Excuse me...} {Party} {(Wherever)} {Do you need it?} (and sometimes "NA/JP OK" to let them know that I'm cool with JP)
At that time, I usually just get either "OK^^" (or the {I don't speak English.} OK?) or {I don't speak English.} {No thanks.} or {Thank you for the offer, but I'll have to pass.} {I'm sorry.}
If JP turn me down, for ANY reason, I simply reply: {Thank you.}
With a name like Elixiru, and being set JE, sometimes JP think I'm Japanese. w
At that time, I usually just get either "OK^^" (or the {I don't speak English.} OK?) or {I don't speak English.} {No thanks.} or {Thank you for the offer, but I'll have to pass.} {I'm sorry.}
If JP turn me down, for ANY reason, I simply reply: {Thank you.}
With a name like Elixiru, and being set JE, sometimes JP think I'm Japanese. w
3 posts
Hello, I am from Tokyo. I read this web and I think some of you are misunderstanding, that is why I am writing, but it is not complain, ok? Just I would like you all to know how we feel. It is not the problem between NA and JN languages, cultures, nor your skill, but it is decency, courtecy and polite. It is just game, but also it is communication with person behind each game character. Some of NA (of cause some of JN) are very rudeness, offensive, insult. Here is expl: too many afk (Don't you feel anything you are keeping person waiting?). When dead, kicked him/her out. I don't like to answer NAs calling from camp, because I go there, NA already have found another to invite, then I waste my time, or PT ends after 2 or 3 mob. Invited, then I found 5 wars and 1 whm (me), pull too much risky mob, someone dead each mob,,,etc maybe you already know because some of you already mentioned. In short, I think not only I, but also almost all of JN, want to enjoy the game, that's all. We take care not to make anyone disgusted. We well understand socially educated NAs are so polite that we can enjoy with them, but others are so mess. It is difficult to tell nice person from all (NA and JN). That is why some of us leave their massage like "JP PT ONLY". Because it is more difficult to find "which kind of type this NA?" than JN. I know it is not good way. Sorry, my English isn't so good!
Your English is fine. Communication of your thoughts > perfect grammar. ^^
Along the lines of what Zaleshea said earlier in this thread, a lot of JP players do know -some- English. How do I know that?
Well, a long time ago, back when I was a little rank 2, 21 WHM/BLM in Qufim, I was in a party at the lake. And you know what happens when 20:00 rolls around.
EVERYONE ON THE ICE! NOW!
...so we did. There was this little Taru in my party (it's been so long, but I believe his name was Sofa) that I struck up a conversation with by asking him the time in Japan. So we got to talking, and I discovered after a few minutes that, yes, he could speak English. So we were having a nice conversation, when the topic came around to how long he'd taken English classes.
Sofa >>: "I have taken classes for two years."
>>Sofa: That's pretty good! {Good job!} ^^
Sofa >>: "Yes, every JP person must take two years of English in school. ^^"
Which is why it bothers me when I see JP PT ONLY {I don't speak any English.} in search comments. While I understand that not everyone will retain every single thing they learned, the fact of the matter is - they do speak SOMEthing.
Now, I understand everything that everyone has said so far. But no one can deny that it's frustrating when you're considering making a party, pull up the LFP list, and see the perfect party there waiting for you... if only the WHM and RDM weren't JP PT ONLY.
I have a limited vocabulary in the Japanese language (...VERY limited ^^;), but whenever I can, I try to use those few Japanese words in my typing when speaking. I bend over backwards to try to communicate and be polite to those JP (and others) players in my party, because I know it's that much harder to party because of the language issue. I see my attempts to communicate and be polite as signs of thanks and respect. I usually get a pretty good reaction, so it would seem that they take it just as it's meant to be - a sign of respect. Maybe everyone should learn a few words of Japanese (even if it's just "hai" and "arigatou"?) and try to use them? It seems to work pretty well for me.
Another theory I have is that there's something amiss in the translator. I speak Spanish pretty well, and an example popped into my head, so stick with me.
I'm sorry = Lo siento.
Now, -directly- translated into English, these mean:
I'm sorry = I'm sorry. (Duh.)
Lo siento = I feel it.
These two could be construed as the same idea, but they're clearly not the same exact thing. {I don't speak any English.} might actually be just an advisory by the JP players, and not an actual rejection of your invite.
But I don't know, it's just a theory. ^^;
Speed
Along the lines of what Zaleshea said earlier in this thread, a lot of JP players do know -some- English. How do I know that?
Well, a long time ago, back when I was a little rank 2, 21 WHM/BLM in Qufim, I was in a party at the lake. And you know what happens when 20:00 rolls around.
EVERYONE ON THE ICE! NOW!
...so we did. There was this little Taru in my party (it's been so long, but I believe his name was Sofa) that I struck up a conversation with by asking him the time in Japan. So we got to talking, and I discovered after a few minutes that, yes, he could speak English. So we were having a nice conversation, when the topic came around to how long he'd taken English classes.
Sofa >>: "I have taken classes for two years."
>>Sofa: That's pretty good! {Good job!} ^^
Sofa >>: "Yes, every JP person must take two years of English in school. ^^"
Which is why it bothers me when I see JP PT ONLY {I don't speak any English.} in search comments. While I understand that not everyone will retain every single thing they learned, the fact of the matter is - they do speak SOMEthing.
Now, I understand everything that everyone has said so far. But no one can deny that it's frustrating when you're considering making a party, pull up the LFP list, and see the perfect party there waiting for you... if only the WHM and RDM weren't JP PT ONLY.
I have a limited vocabulary in the Japanese language (...VERY limited ^^;), but whenever I can, I try to use those few Japanese words in my typing when speaking. I bend over backwards to try to communicate and be polite to those JP (and others) players in my party, because I know it's that much harder to party because of the language issue. I see my attempts to communicate and be polite as signs of thanks and respect. I usually get a pretty good reaction, so it would seem that they take it just as it's meant to be - a sign of respect. Maybe everyone should learn a few words of Japanese (even if it's just "hai" and "arigatou"?) and try to use them? It seems to work pretty well for me.
Another theory I have is that there's something amiss in the translator. I speak Spanish pretty well, and an example popped into my head, so stick with me.
I'm sorry = Lo siento.
Now, -directly- translated into English, these mean:
I'm sorry = I'm sorry. (Duh.)
Lo siento = I feel it.
These two could be construed as the same idea, but they're clearly not the same exact thing. {I don't speak any English.} might actually be just an advisory by the JP players, and not an actual rejection of your invite.
But I don't know, it's just a theory. ^^;
Speed
It is true that JP Students have to study English in school.
But that doesnt mean they are good at it.
Many stops using the language other then in the class, and some doesnt even use it there.
They think they are not good at it, so they dont want people to laugh at them. So they dont speak English at all.
And when they havent bothered with English much, they are most likely not familiar with the Computer Terms and Slang that many people uses. So they "JP Only" - I want to be able to communicate with the party and have fun, i am not good at english so i dont want to bother you.
But that doesnt mean they are good at it.
Many stops using the language other then in the class, and some doesnt even use it there.
They think they are not good at it, so they dont want people to laugh at them. So they dont speak English at all.
And when they havent bothered with English much, they are most likely not familiar with the Computer Terms and Slang that many people uses. So they "JP Only" - I want to be able to communicate with the party and have fun, i am not good at english so i dont want to bother you.
Quote:
It is true that JP Students have to study English in school.
But that doesnt mean they are good at it.
Many stops using the language other then in the class, and some doesnt even use it there.
They think they are not good at it, so they dont want people to laugh at them. So they dont speak English at all.
But that doesnt mean they are good at it.
Many stops using the language other then in the class, and some doesnt even use it there.
They think they are not good at it, so they dont want people to laugh at them. So they dont speak English at all.
A lot of truth to this post. I have Japanese friends (I mean outside of this game by the way) and yes they do learn English in school. YET they do not always learn it fluently. They learn basic gramatical structure and thats about it. For those interested this next piece of information may be of use to someone. Companies in Japan are ALWAYS looking for people to hire to teach English to thier employees. Even though its taught in school its quite like here in the USA when your in high school and learn for example lets say Spanish... well now Im 27 years old. There is NO WAY I can remember what I learned in those Spanish classes lol.
Another fact: They are very sensitive to the fact that they do not speak fluent English to the point that they will not speak English to someone that does speak it fluently. The reason comes from fear of looking bad or possibly insulting the other party. Its not that they are stuck up at all but that they are very uncomfortable outside of that comfort zone.
3 posts
Hello again, I think you agree with me the following,,,
We can find Self-centered people anywhere.
They always criticize others.
They always insist on their position.
They never take care of other people.
They always shift their responsible to others.
They always ask us "you should speak English! I don't care JN"
It is interesting that I am sure our real characters are appearing thru our web characters. It is nothing to make PT with them (self-centered, I don't mean all NAs). We know it doesn't work. It is true that it is difficult to listen and speak in English for some JN, but JN can read and write well because we study only those. It is just troublesome to explain to NA. Then some JN ,,, "JP Only"
We feel very frendly with NAs who try to learn and understand JN and we feel we can make a good team with them with thanks. Of cause JN language is difficult and mainly we try to communicate in English (don't worry, we never ask you to speak in Japanese, just we feel happy when you try to do it). What important is your atittude. I guess OTHERS who ask JN to make a PT are only for EXP, and it doesn't work. We want to have a good relationship even it is on the web. We take care player behind the game character. I think this is the most different things this problem happens.
Again, I want you to understand it is atittude, not language. We prefer making party with someone who try to understand each other even our language isn't the same. That is all.
Efficient Lvling is result of team working (We are not so crazy about it). What is necessity for it?
Of cause some NA and JN don't like make a party with anyone who speak deffelent languages. That is OK. It is not duty for the game. Can we all enjoy the game with good manner?
We can find Self-centered people anywhere.
They always criticize others.
They always insist on their position.
They never take care of other people.
They always shift their responsible to others.
They always ask us "you should speak English! I don't care JN"
It is interesting that I am sure our real characters are appearing thru our web characters. It is nothing to make PT with them (self-centered, I don't mean all NAs). We know it doesn't work. It is true that it is difficult to listen and speak in English for some JN, but JN can read and write well because we study only those. It is just troublesome to explain to NA. Then some JN ,,, "JP Only"
We feel very frendly with NAs who try to learn and understand JN and we feel we can make a good team with them with thanks. Of cause JN language is difficult and mainly we try to communicate in English (don't worry, we never ask you to speak in Japanese, just we feel happy when you try to do it). What important is your atittude. I guess OTHERS who ask JN to make a PT are only for EXP, and it doesn't work. We want to have a good relationship even it is on the web. We take care player behind the game character. I think this is the most different things this problem happens.
Again, I want you to understand it is atittude, not language. We prefer making party with someone who try to understand each other even our language isn't the same. That is all.
Efficient Lvling is result of team working (We are not so crazy about it). What is necessity for it?
Of cause some NA and JN don't like make a party with anyone who speak deffelent languages. That is OK. It is not duty for the game. Can we all enjoy the game with good manner?
Can I really use this? Edited, Sat Oct 15 18:17:38 2005 by SuperClifford
Edited, Sat Oct 15 18:18:34 2005 by SuperClifford
Its not working ; ;
Edited, Sat Oct 15 18:18:54 2005 by SuperClifford
I don't blame many JP players for not wanting NA parties, I think too much of our culture is now defined by egocentrism and rudeness.
In parties i have had lately, it seems like at least 75% of the players younger than 17 have been rude and obnoxious. They love to insult everyone around and are constantly doing senseless emotes and shouts for no other reason than to get attention. I'm lucky enough to have a linkshell that is probably 75% people that are 21 and over, with all but one of our ls council members being over 30.
I don't think its only a JP thing, I know many people that don't like having to pt with or be around the average selfish obnoxious 15 year old. It's just harder for them to pick up on who the bad ones are until too late.
In parties i have had lately, it seems like at least 75% of the players younger than 17 have been rude and obnoxious. They love to insult everyone around and are constantly doing senseless emotes and shouts for no other reason than to get attention. I'm lucky enough to have a linkshell that is probably 75% people that are 21 and over, with all but one of our ls council members being over 30.
I don't think its only a JP thing, I know many people that don't like having to pt with or be around the average selfish obnoxious 15 year old. It's just harder for them to pick up on who the bad ones are until too late.
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