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#1 Apr 29 2011 at 6:36 AM Rating: Sub-Default
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Hey.

Could you add a detailed explanation of the karma system to the zam rules?

Thanks.

Edited, May 19th 2011 6:44pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Derailed
#2 Apr 29 2011 at 11:47 AM Rating: Good
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Karma system:

Post good things karma goes up
Post bad things karma goes down*

*asking about karma counts as bad

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#3 Apr 29 2011 at 1:53 PM Rating: Good
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Ailitardif wrote:
Karma system:

Post good things karma goes up
Post bad things karma goes down*

*asking about karma counts as bad



Funny stuff is also usually rated up, which is part of the reason logaxe+1 has sage.

Posts that insult other players are usually rated down, even if the person doing the rating down wasn't the one that was insulted. I learned this the hard way myself.

Truly novel, really good ideas are rated up provided they are posted in the Feedback and Suggestions forum (not this forum, the one in the FFXI section.) These are rare, but they are doable, and the best of them actually are sometimes implemented by SE.

Interestingly, brief and concise posts tend to be rated up more than long-winded "teal deer" (TL;DR) posts. Zammers have short attention spans and if a post extends more than 3-4 fairly short paragraphs, we're going to skip it and not rate it up, or worse, rate it down for clearly not understanding our posting culture.

These days it's actually safe to discuss karma within this Site and Forum Feedback forum, since no one can rate you down.

Edited, Apr 29th 2011 3:54pm by catwho
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#4 Apr 29 2011 at 3:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Thanks.

How can I rate a post? Is the feature inactive for new users? Did not see it anywhere.
#5 Apr 29 2011 at 4:02 PM Rating: Good
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Check this as well

Must be scholar or above to rate, the link explains it.
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#6 Apr 29 2011 at 4:05 PM Rating: Good
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catwho wrote:


Interestingly, brief and concise posts tend to be rated up more than long-winded "teal deer" (TL;DR) posts. Zammers have short attention spans and if a post extends more than 3-4 fairly short paragraphs, we're going to skip it and not rate it up, or worse, rate it down for clearly not understanding our posting culture.


What about Gbaji? That dude is a scholar and he only posts TL;DR.
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#7 Apr 29 2011 at 4:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Is the karma system on the WoW board the same as on the FFXI board? The WoW FAQ seems to differ a bit.

Edited, Apr 29th 2011 6:49pm by FinalxHope
#8 Apr 29 2011 at 4:46 PM Rating: Good
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FinalxHope wrote:
Is the karma system on the WoW board the same as on the FFXI board? The WoW FAQ seems to differ a bit.


As far as I know, yes.
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#9 Apr 29 2011 at 4:50 PM Rating: Decent
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If a post is not rated does the starting rating of this post count as new rating, as well? For example if a user with a good rating posts, the post receives also the rating of good by default, does this increase the persons karma? That would mean that a person could generate 100 posts to increase the own karma by 100 good-ratings.
#10 Apr 29 2011 at 4:57 PM Rating: Good
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FinalxHope wrote:
If a post is not rated does the starting rating of this post count as new rating, as well? For example if a user with a good rating posts, the post receives also the rating of good by default, does this increase the persons karma? That would mean that a person could generate 100 posts to increase the own karma by 100 good-ratings.


Correct, essentially.
#11 Apr 29 2011 at 5:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Eske Esquire wrote:
FinalxHope wrote:
If a post is not rated does the starting rating of this post count as new rating, as well? For example if a user with a good rating posts, the post receives also the rating of good by default, does this increase the persons karma? That would mean that a person could generate 100 posts to increase the own karma by 100 good-ratings.


Correct, essentially.


This is madness. I bet people only rate posts that are extremely good or extremely bad. No one would take the trouble to rate any small post. That leads to unfair scores. Especially for someone that got voted sub-default. Any post that person makes rates him down automatically. The only chance the person has would be to post extremely good posts, so that people are motivated to vote. If not then the person gets downrated automatically.
#12 Apr 29 2011 at 5:20 PM Rating: Good
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1) When you make a post, it starts with two ratings on it, both at your base rating at the time of the post.
2) A rate up adds 6 to the total score.
3a) Every even-numbered rate down adds 1 to the total score.
3b) The first rate down adds 1 to the total score.
3c) All other odd-numbered rate downs add -2 to the total score.
4a) The average (total score / # of ratings) is taken. (The number of ratings includes the two "automatic" ones.)
4b) If the average is greater than 5, it becomes 5.
5) The average then gets mapped to the rating words:
4.5+ - Excellent
3.5-4.499.. - Good
2.5-3.499.. - Decent
1.5-2.499.. - Default
0.5-1.499.. - Sub-Default
0-0.499.. - Unrated
<0 - Negative (only happens for nuked posts - the average can't fall below 0 otherwise)

Edit: Because a weenie doesn't want to lose his post number. Weenie.

Edited, Apr 29th 2011 10:14pm by lolgaxe
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#13 Apr 29 2011 at 5:24 PM Rating: Decent
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FinalxHope wrote:
This is madness. I bet people only rate posts that are extremely good or extremely bad. No one would take the trouble to rate any small post. That leads to unfair scores. Especially for someone that got voted sub-default. Any post that person makes rates him down automatically. The only chance the person has would be to post extremely good posts, so that people are motivated to vote. If not then the person gets downrated automatically.

Yes. Which means that if you start off bad (which you did), you have to become pretty good to bounce back (which you won't).

Also, a person won't become sub-default automatically without a lot of rate-downs, even with the fact that you rate yourself. Let it be a sign that a lot of people disliked your posts.
#14 Apr 29 2011 at 5:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Majivo wrote:
FinalxHope wrote:
This is madness. I bet people only rate posts that are extremely good or extremely bad. No one would take the trouble to rate any small post. That leads to unfair scores. Especially for someone that got voted sub-default. Any post that person makes rates him down automatically. The only chance the person has would be to post extremely good posts, so that people are motivated to vote. If not then the person gets downrated automatically.

Yes. Which means that if you start off bad (which you did), you have to become pretty good to bounce back (which you won't).

Also, a person won't become sub-default automatically without a lot of rate-downs, even with the fact that you rate yourself. Let it be a sign that a lot of people disliked your posts.


Then they can look forward to get impressed by me in the future. I like challenges. Once my karma is restored I leave the board. Forever. The only reason I stay is because I hate injustice. It does not matter if it happens to me or to others. Right now I am even getting trolled for reasoned threads. But it will change. So long let`s live side by side.
#15 Apr 29 2011 at 5:39 PM Rating: Decent
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FinalxHope wrote:
Once my karma is restored I leave the board. Forever.

That's a shame. I was really hoping you wouldn't be here that long.

FinalxHope wrote:
The only reason I stay is because I hate injustice.

It's not "injustice", you drama queen. Your posts suck. Period. This is for two simple reasons. First, your grasp of the English language is terrible. Second, your ideas are terrible. One or the other can be overcome, but you don't seem like the kind of guy who's willing to admit that he's wrong, so I doubt you'll adjust a thing, and you'll spend eternity being sub-default.
#16FinalxHope, Posted: Apr 29 2011 at 7:00 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I never was in your community before. So I did not know your rules from the beginning. Now I am starting to get them. I will never remain on the sub-default level. Never.
#17 Apr 29 2011 at 8:29 PM Rating: Good
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Ailitardif wrote:
catwho wrote:


Interestingly, brief and concise posts tend to be rated up more than long-winded "teal deer" (TL;DR) posts. Zammers have short attention spans and if a post extends more than 3-4 fairly short paragraphs, we're going to skip it and not rate it up, or worse, rate it down for clearly not understanding our posting culture.


What about Gbaji? That dude is a scholar and he only posts TL;DR.


Gbaji has grandfathered in karma from many years ago at this point, and he saves his most long-winded rants for the Asylum, where they are read for the lulz and generally tolerated.

Varrus, who often posts short snippets, is the opposite exception, since he posts brief posts but almost always ends up sub default for sheer inanity.
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#18 Apr 29 2011 at 8:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Karma

The forum karma system is designed to allow user moderation to a certain degree of posts in the forums. There are two main elements to the system. the base karma rating, and the per-post rating. Your base karma rating is your lifetime average of all ratings received starting from your 16th forum post. Your per-post rating is what people thought of that one particular post you made. Posts can be rated Either Up, or down. An Awful rating (red arrow) starts at a value of 1.00. After two Red arrows in a row, the next consecutive awful rating shows up as a -2.00. A fourth awful in a row goes back to 1.00. Basically every third consecutive awful rate on a post turns into a -2.00. That is the only time a negitive rate value actually affects base karma. A green arrow, or Excellent rating has a value of 6.00. It used to be possible for other rating values, however that functionality no longer exists. some older accounts do have ratings in the 2.00-5.00 scale too, but not in the last 4 years.

To rate a post, you press the red or green arrows located at the top right of each post. Anyone with a base karma score of 3.01 or higher can participate in the rating process. Under 3.01, or if the user has been "no rated" by an administrator the rate arrows are not available.

Users prior to 15 posts have no karma rating. This is to prevent "instant gurus" or "instant sub default" posters. On post 17 you start with a default base karma rating of 3.00. Each time you post, you automatically rate yourself two times at whatever your current base karma is at. To an admin, your rating when you post a thread looks like this:

By: NewUser
17 posts
Score: Decent [3.00]
NewUser: 3.00
NewUser: 3.00

Now lets say that a few users decided to rate your post.

By: NewUser
17 posts
Score: Decent [3.34]
NewUser: 3.00
NewUser: 3.00
rater1: 6.00
rater2: 1.00
rater3: 1.00
rater4: 6.00

That would make the per-thread rating 3.34. However your base karma would be the average of the 34 ratings you rated yourself as you posted (17 posts * 2 ratings at 3.00) and the four other ratings, which would leave you at a base karma of 3.05.

By achieving a base karma above 3.00, you will move up a rank, and are now a Scholar. There are three main forum levels:

Scholar - 3.01-3.65 - the majority of posters fall into this category
Sage - 3.65-4.39 - an exceptional poster, one who consistently provides good information and interacts well with the community. Rare to attain.
Guru - 4.40-5.00 - This poster participates above and beyond the call of duty. Their word is unquestioned, and in their area of expertise they are unparalleled. it takes a rare poster indeed to reach this rank.
Administrators - The forum administrators also have a custom colored title.

A post may still be rated when it is at either extreme of the scale. for example, on a post that has been rated to 5.00 that receives another excellent 6.00 rating, that 6.00 rating does count towards the posters base karma. Someone would then have to post additional 1.00 ratings to bring the entire post down too.

Rating guidelines: How and why you rate a post is your concern, however we ask that you keep a few things in mind. If you find yourself rating entire threads up or down, or following specific posters around and rating all of their posts one way, this is considered Karma camping, and is actively discouraged. Also, creating a secondary forum account for the sole purpose of buffering your own karma is considered cheating.

Karma reset button: Administrators have the ability to reset a user base karma to 3.00 if we feel the system has been systemically abused towards a given user. This is usually a one time event, and only if we feel the user has a particularily meritious case. We rarely even let the user know it has occured. This is to be used at the discretion of the administrator, and is not a "right" that a forum user can demand.

Admins also have no rate limiter, so we can append multiple up or down rates to a post as needed to adjust for system abuse if required. We rarely do so however. Administrator ratings to "nuke" a post show up as -50.00 and do not affect your base karma score in any manner.

I think that covers most of it.
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#19 Apr 29 2011 at 10:50 PM Rating: Good
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catwho wrote:
Zammers have short attention spans

Stopped reading right there.

It's a TRAP! joke. Obligatory, someone had to say it, etc.

EDITATION: Just because I don't want to bother making another thread, I'm gonna ask this here. I clicked on a couple of Final's sub-default posts, and when they expanded, the rating arrows reappeared. Aren't the arrows supposed to be disabled in the feedback forum?

Edited, Apr 29th 2011 11:54pm by Ralrra
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#20 Apr 30 2011 at 12:42 AM Rating: Good
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FinalxHope wrote:
Majivo wrote:
FinalxHope wrote:
Once my karma is restored I leave the board. Forever.

That's a shame. I was really hoping you wouldn't be here that long.

FinalxHope wrote:
The only reason I stay is because I hate injustice.

It's not "injustice", you drama queen. Your posts suck. Period. This is for two simple reasons. First, your grasp of the English language is terrible. Second, your ideas are terrible. One or the other can be overcome, but you don't seem like the kind of guy who's willing to admit that he's wrong, so I doubt you'll adjust a thing, and you'll spend eternity being sub-default.


I never was in your community before. So I did not know your rules from the beginning. Now I am starting to get them. I will never remain on the sub-default level. Never.


Eh, I don't think your attitude will be productive for you, honestly. No need to be stubborn. Drawing a hard line over meaningless rating numbers on a video game forum, well, that'd be a **** of a wasted effort.

If you'd like to be a part of the board community, then my suggestion is to lurk around. Get a feel for how things are. Read in some of the other forums. It'll do you good. Then, if you're polite, attentive, patient, and thoughtful, the karma will come.



Edited, Apr 30th 2011 2:43am by Eske
#21 Apr 30 2011 at 10:12 PM Rating: Decent
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FinalxHope wrote:
Then they can look forward to get impressed by me in the future. I like challenges. Once my karma is restored I leave the board. Forever. The only reason I stay is because I hate injustice. It does not matter if it happens to me or to others. Right now I am even getting trolled for reasoned threads. But it will change. So long let`s live side by side.


Kaolian, I know you said that you can't ban stupid, but can we make an exception this once...?
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#22 May 01 2011 at 9:37 AM Rating: Good
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catwho wrote:
Ailitardif wrote:
catwho wrote:


Interestingly, brief and concise posts tend to be rated up more than long-winded "teal deer" (TL;DR) posts. Zammers have short attention spans and if a post extends more than 3-4 fairly short paragraphs, we're going to skip it and not rate it up, or worse, rate it down for clearly not understanding our posting culture.


What about Gbaji? That dude is a scholar and he only posts TL;DR.


Gbaji has grandfathered in karma from many years ago at this point, and he saves his most long-winded rants for the Asylum, where they are read for the lulz and generally tolerated.

Varrus, who often posts short snippets, is the opposite exception, since he posts brief posts but almost always ends up sub default for sheer inanity.

Keep in mind that Gbaji used to be a Sage.
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#23 May 01 2011 at 11:06 AM Rating: Good
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Wonder Gem Pawkeshup wrote:
FinalxHope wrote:
Then they can look forward to get impressed by me in the future. I like challenges. Once my karma is restored I leave the board. Forever. The only reason I stay is because I hate injustice. It does not matter if it happens to me or to others. Right now I am even getting trolled for reasoned threads. But it will change. So long let`s live side by side.


Kaolian, I know you said that you can't ban stupid, but can we make an exception this once...?
There are at least 10 people ahead of him in that "just once, please" queue.
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#24 May 01 2011 at 2:00 PM Rating: Good
Spoonless the Silent wrote:
Wonder Gem Pawkeshup wrote:
FinalxHope wrote:
Then they can look forward to get impressed by me in the future. I like challenges. Once my karma is restored I leave the board. Forever. The only reason I stay is because I hate injustice. It does not matter if it happens to me or to others. Right now I am even getting trolled for reasoned threads. But it will change. So long let`s live side by side.


Kaolian, I know you said that you can't ban stupid, but can we make an exception this once...?
There are at least 10 people ahead of him in that "just once, please" queue.
Names or gtfo.
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#25 May 01 2011 at 4:56 PM Rating: Default
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Thanks to the people who wrote serious answers. You helped a lot. My start in this board was not the best, so I am even more thankful. I will try to integrate better from now on. Since you stayed respectful you gave me reason to try so. Yea, I made some mistakes, got to mad because of the trolls, posted to many topics at once, but now I know better. Still some people are to unfair to me but with the time they learn that they get no gain from flaming in my threads again and again. Keep the respect up and I will do, as well.

See you.
#26 May 01 2011 at 5:29 PM Rating: Decent
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FinalxHope wrote:
Thanks to the people who wrote serious answers. You helped a lot. My start in this board was not the best, so I am even more thankful. I will try to integrate better from now on. Since you stayed respectful you gave me reason to try so. Yea, I made some mistakes, got to mad because of the trolls, posted to many topics at once, but now I know better. Still some people are to unfair to me but with the time they learn that they get no gain from flaming in my threads again and again. Keep the respect up and I will do, as well.

See you.
Actually, your topics aren't flamed by trolls, they are treated like the trash they mainly are, to be quite frank.

If by posting respectfully, you mean posting worthwhile, coherent posts that have merit, I'd love to see it. Otherwise, give up the plan to "stay till you're Scholar then leaving". Just leave now.
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