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Admin defence on karma system...Follow

#1 Mar 15 2011 at 8:47 AM Rating: Good
It seems no matter what I post on ZAM nowadays somebody will come along and rate me down. Don't get me wrong I understand that it is a right of the community to do this but since I started posting on FFIXV forums, people are arbitrarily rating people’s posts down without reason or any sort of discourse explaining their reasons. I actually pride myself on writing readable and articulate responses on ZAM, try and help people out and when an opinion is asked for, give it with as much diplomacy as I can muster. To get someone come along and get rated down from Excellent to Decent in the space of 5 posts for just either stating an opinion or supporting an OP is getting very tiresome. I've never knocked anyone on ZAM and have always tried to keep things positive. I've always considered us a community and therefore consider my reactions and interactions very carefully before clicking 'send'. If there is an admin out there that can shed some light into what is happening with the karma bombing I would be very interested to know. Put it this way, my karma rating was excellent on 95% of my posts until September of 2010, coincidentally the time CE was released. I remember a light hearted post I made about the music in Thanalan sounding like a song I had heard and getting put into default for this.

I use the Karma system to rate people up and down. If they have made a valuable contribution to a post, give a particularly convincing argument or help out a member of the community I give them a rate up. I try and avoid rating down unless something is especially wrong (i.e. giving incorrect information). As I understand it, the Karma system is there as a tool of trust between members of the community, a seal of approval. When I look down the list on the general forum nearly everything is default or decent and hardly any excellent ratings exist. I used to use this as a guide for which posts I should first read but now, as most posts carry decent or below, it’s very hard to tell. Some really good people out there now have such low ratings. The only people who seem to maintain their Karma rating is the admin and that’s because they are un-rateable!

Please admin do something about this. Either remove the karma system, reset it or start checking on who is doing the karma bombing.

Yours in anticipation of a sub-default,

Edynotb
Smiley: dubious

Edited, Mar 17th 2011 3:44pm by Kaolian Lock Thread: ok, thread done,.
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#2 Mar 15 2011 at 1:57 PM Rating: Good
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Users can't rate posts in the Site Feedback forum Smiley: tongue
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#3 Mar 15 2011 at 2:54 PM Rating: Good
A guru griping about karma? Really?

What next? Joph gonna come in here and complain that he had a few post nuked and it detrimentally affected his post count?
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

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#4 Mar 15 2011 at 3:01 PM Rating: Good
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To be fair, the admins have investigated the handful of times I've complained about karma camping. If you provide links to specific examples in a PM to a mod, they can look at karma bombers and issue warnings to people who are truly abusing the system.

Usually, though, after an investigation, my stuff is getting rated down by multiple people who may have never rated me down before. Karma working as intended.

More disappointing to me than getting knocked down from Good to Decent or Default is when I have a post on Excellent and some jerk just HAS to come along and decide it should only be Good. I mean, really? Usually if I go from Good to Decent or Default, I deserved it. What reason can people have to rate down an Excellent post?
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#5 Mar 15 2011 at 4:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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As a former admin, I can tell you that:
1. The methods for seeing if a single person or a group of people are camping someone's karma are rather thorough. However, it generally takes a "hey, I think someone is karma camping me, can you check?" They can't keep an eye on every single poster's karma. It's really easy to tell if it's camping or just general dislike from the entire forum of a single person (kinda rare with gurus).
2. It takes more than one person rating someone down to go from "Excellent to Decent in the space of 5 posts." The likely hood that you have enough people who just plain don't like you enough to do that to your posts' karma is pretty low. However, if you complain about getting rated down, it's like throwing bloody meat into a bunch of sharks. People pounce on posts like that hitting the red arrow so hard that Casey Heynes looks at it and goes, "DAAAAMN." Not that I'm saying you did that. But saying things like, "Yours in anticipation of a sub-default," leads me to believe that you may have.
3. There's a report button. If you think a post or thread of yours or anyone else's for that matter is a recipient of some unfair down-rating, report it. It will bring IMMEDIATE ADMINISTRATIVE ATTENTION to a post. Don't abuse it though. You don't want to make them start going, "OH GOD, NOT THIS GUY AGAIN..."
4. Some people are just ***** and rate people down with high karma for the lulz.

Edited, Mar 15th 2011 5:31pm by Usagi
#6 Mar 15 2011 at 4:58 PM Rating: Good
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I don't see why we don't just remove the anonymity.

Honestly, I don't get the anonymous rating thing. In what textbook does anonymity + human behavior = win? I'd link to some ancient philosophers and theorists to provide some kind of solid evidence for my argument, but anyone who's been on YouTube and read the comments there knows what anonymity + human behavior does to a social environment.

I mean, christ, haven't you guys seen Hollow Man?
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#7 Mar 15 2011 at 5:19 PM Rating: Good
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LOLFFXIV, nuff said.
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#8 Mar 15 2011 at 6:57 PM Rating: Good
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This thread deserves to be in the OOT then the Asylum.






Bring back the numbers.
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#9 Mar 15 2011 at 11:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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In the last 6 months, you have 12 1.00 ratings. Period. During the same timeframe you have hundreds upon hundreds of 6.0 ratings. In your specific account case I see no problems at all. If you would like me to review a specific post or thread, I'd be happy to do so.

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#10 Mar 16 2011 at 3:20 AM Rating: Excellent
Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
In the last 6 months, you have 12 1.00 ratings. Period. During the same timeframe you have hundreds upon hundreds of 6.0 ratings. In your specific account case I see no problems at all. If you would like me to review a specific post or thread, I'd be happy to do so.

Administrator Kaolian


Are the twelve 1.0 ratings bad and the hundreds of 6.0's are good? Or vice versa? And thank you Kaolian but an admin has already contacted me and set my mind to rest.

Thank you all for your replies to my post. I can see that there are many of you that either care about the ZAM forums and/or the karma in one way or another.

To Catwho: Lol yes this is exactly what maybe going to happen to me now. Put my head above the parapet and you are an easy target. Karma is working as intended.

To Usagi - yes I understand that my overall rating would need more than 5 rate downs to bring my overall level down; I was actually meaning the posts within a thread. That’s what happened yesterday - the reason for my post here. I also take your point about people rating people down with higher karma than others, sad but true.

To Mazra: I guess the OOT or Asylum topics might have been a better choice but all of my posts relate to either FFXI or FFXIV and I was trying to get/give feedback what was happening in the forums that I use (mainly General and THM) so that’s why I posted here rather than elsewhere.

I guess rather than complaining about a specific post of mine that was rated down my intention was to ask anyone present if this was an inherent problem in the ZAM community now or maybe just the quality of my posts were tiring (probably the latter lol).


Edited, Mar 16th 2011 9:23am by EdyNOTB
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#11 Mar 16 2011 at 3:23 AM Rating: Good
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EdyNOTB, pet mage of Jabober wrote:
Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
In the last 6 months, you have 12 1.00 ratings. Period. During the same timeframe you have hundreds upon hundreds of 6.0 ratings. In your specific account case I see no problems at all. If you would like me to review a specific post or thread, I'd be happy to do so.

Administrator Kaolian


Are the twelve 1.0 ratings bad and the hundreds of 6.0's are good? Or visa versa?
The 1.0 ratings are Sub-default (Or Default, I can't remember), 6.0 ratings are Excellent.

Edited, Mar 16th 2011 3:24am by Kirby
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#12 Mar 16 2011 at 5:39 AM Rating: Excellent
Thank you Kirby - still upset that I have got six defaults though lol.
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#13 Mar 16 2011 at 10:53 AM Rating: Good
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EdyNOTB, pet mage of Jabober wrote:
Thank you Kirby - still upset that I have got six defaults though lol.


Good to know, thanks.
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#14 Mar 16 2011 at 12:10 PM Rating: Good
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I still say we bring back numbers and/or remove the anonymous rating process. Force people to defend their down-votes. If nothing else, it would create some /popcorn in the less active forums.
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#15 Mar 16 2011 at 3:53 PM Rating: Good
Mazra wrote:
I still say we bring back numbers and/or remove the anonymous rating process. Force people to defend their down-votes. If nothing else, it would create some /popcorn in the less active forums.
It would be fun if we could see all rates, and who, but only on the first of every month. That way you could prepare for the popcorn moments in advance.
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

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I know what a glory hole is, but I wasn't sure what the business part was in reference to.

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#16 Mar 16 2011 at 8:02 PM Rating: Good
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Lubriderm the Fussy wrote:
Mazra wrote:
I still say we bring back numbers and/or remove the anonymous rating process. Force people to defend their down-votes. If nothing else, it would create some /popcorn in the less active forums.
It would be fun if we could see all rates, and who, but only on the first of every month. That way you could prepare for the popcorn moments in advance.


But I want my popcorn every day!
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#17 Mar 17 2011 at 3:46 PM Rating: Good
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EdyNOTB, pet mage of Jabober wrote:
Thank you Kirby - still upset that I have got six defaults though lol.
A few years back, they invented this thing called skin. Try looking into it.
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#18 Mar 17 2011 at 3:56 PM Rating: Good
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EdyNOTB, pet mage of Jabober wrote:
Thank you Kirby - still upset that I have got six defaults though lol.
A few years back, they invented this thing called skin. Try looking into it.
It doesn't feel anywhere near as good with an extra layer.
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

Almalieque wrote:
I know what a glory hole is, but I wasn't sure what the business part was in reference to.

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