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Bring Back Parties.Follow

#52 Sep 15 2011 at 1:07 PM Rating: Good
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LadyVaJedi wrote:
The Alliance parties can also make your skills out of wack and people are still going to need to skill up as well outside of the alliance parties.

That's not a result of being in an alliance, as opposed to being in a 6 man party or even leveling solo. That's purely a result of the high exp rate.

The only way 6 man parties could become common place again would be if exp rates were adjusted so that you could get at least somewhat close to what alliances can get in Abyssea. At that point, you would still wind up with players with lagging combat/magic skills.
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#53 Sep 15 2011 at 1:56 PM Rating: Default
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Didn't the devs fixed that as well to with the xp in 6 man parties as well? Also to people aren't going to know all the different ways jobs can be played as well. It is a shame that all of these different ways to party can't coperate.
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#54 Sep 15 2011 at 9:55 PM Rating: Decent
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I Can see both Sides of the coin.

I remember when I LS mate of mine went to the EXPO in California a few years... well maybe more than a few years back. Now She told us all about the Dev's super Kirin Run. (Remember this is back when Kirin was the baddest apple in the land) The team chosen used good gear... not super gear... and rand with a single party of 6 people in the 6 base jobs, so a WAR MNK THF BLM RDM and a WHM. It was a long battle but they showed that the 6 base jobs of FFXI were all that was needed to do ANYTHING in the game.

This was assuming that the players communicated... knew there jobs and knew them well.

Case in point. Exp Parties Trained us for that... leeching doesn't.

Another example is before I quit.. DNC was kind of a shunned job, it had a bad rap on my server because 95% of dancers ... didn't really do anything. I had somehow convinced a party to let me fill the 6th spot in their colibri party to get my dancer from 74 to 75... Now...I knew DNC like the back of my hand... so in this party I grabbed the attention of a certain individual whom insisted that I should join his EGLS, after all if I was this good with a DNC... surely I could show people some skill as my 75 Samurai with a merit or two.

Now.. first Dynamis run day... I again insist on coming as a Dancer with the promise that if I produce unsatisfactory results I'll give up any gear lot point I would have earned that day. We start... and as we go through Bastok:Dynamis I get shifted from party to party because I'm always sitting on tp and all my people are always at full health. So finally they put me in the main "tank" party.. Great now I have 4plds to heal along with a RDM. Not only do I keep them healed, the redmage has time to dis-engage, and swap over to mage parties lacking a rdm or bard to do refreshing. The whole dynamis speeds up as a whole and bam we cleared it with lots of time to spare and... my new LS leader puts a rule down that I'm to always come as a DNC.. no if's or buts.

Now... sure nice brag story... but underlying there are the two main points... I learned my job by leveling it.. and leveling it in parties, climbing through the levels in a party atmosphere, I was always learning how the better enhance my contribution to the group as a whole... not over-healing to pull hate, using stun flourishes to stop skills, ect. If I were to have leeched and blasted my way up.. I wouldn't have developed that second nature knack that can only come with time experience?

The other point is that... I got invited to that ls because I made an impression with both skill and social aspects in the party that made that LS leader think.. "hey...this person would fit in well with our group". EXP Parties were in ways a meet and greet for bigger better things. Now... when I played AION ... I applied for several Legions... and it seemed to be the accepted format for you to basically fill out a resume on said legions website, stating your character name, rank, gear, kinah, craft levels, ect and then fill out questions on why they should for lack of a better term "Hire" you into their legion... It kinda felt like work... but without getting paid.

So two sides of the coin... honestly if I had to start over.. I would never return under the old party system... Way too much work. Really I want to continue.. their was alot... and I mean alot of great Story-Line I didn't get to see so I want to focus on getting to a level and teaming up with some people that would like to sit down and get the story-line stuff done. I wan't to see the places I didn't get to see the last time I played... and if I was new person starting out.. especially coming from another MMO... there would be no way I would have the patience to sit seeking parties under the old system, in every other MMO you could always solo stuff almost 100% of the time, again I know i seem to fall to AION since it was the last one I played... but I solo'd my Ranger to 35... and had all gold gear with a mix of pvp accessories ... and I never so much as talked to another person on that Character.... so if I went from that kind of setting over to the old FFXI party system... I know I wouldn't have lasted.

I think the changes are for the better... but again I think the OP was just trying to say that it would be nice to see a few more old-school party based activities come into play to get people working together on more than an convenience basis, giving newer players or those returning a chance to find a LS to call home.

So all in all the old system did have some perks.. and we need to recognize that.. but that doesn't mean we need to go back but rather keep them in mind as we move forward.
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#55 Sep 16 2011 at 10:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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CortanaPeacecraft wrote:
I Can see both Sides of the coin.

I remember when I LS mate of mine went to the EXPO in California a few years... well maybe more than a few years back. Now She told us all about the Dev's super Kirin Run. (Remember this is back when Kirin was the baddest apple in the land) The team chosen used good gear... not super gear... and rand with a single party of 6 people in the 6 base jobs, so a WAR MNK THF BLM RDM and a WHM. It was a long battle but they showed that the 6 base jobs of FFXI were all that was needed to do ANYTHING in the game.

This was assuming that the players communicated... knew there jobs and knew them well.

Case in point. Exp Parties Trained us for that... leeching doesn't.

Exp parties didn't train anyone to take down Kirin with just 6 people. Exp parties train people to be in exp parties. Fighting Kirin is what trained people to fight Kirin.

Leeching doesn't provide training for anything. But even a brand new player doesn't need a whole lot of time to learn how to play a job, certainly not the amount of time it used to take getting from 1 to 75 in a traditional 6 man exp pt. And if a player already has multiple jobs to 90, that's even less reason that they need "training" via exp parties.
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#56 Oct 04 2011 at 12:41 PM Rating: Default
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I miss the groups as well. I started again with 2 other NA PC release players.
This game is so different. It basically ANOTHER WoW clone...except this one holds fond memories for me. What this game used to be is what brought me back.

If its so easy to level, why not just give me a lv 85 toon when I install? That would save me a lot of trouble.

Soloing/Duoing/Trioing WAS possible long ago. I trio'd Hakutaku for an Ohat. I duo'd the NM dragon in Ifrits Cauldron.

So once I hit 30 I just go to this new area, afk and come back a while later at cap? Kinda like being dragged thru dungeons in WoW. If I wanted a no-brainer game, I'd log into FB
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#57 Oct 04 2011 at 1:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mordeyb wrote:
So once I hit 30 I just go to this new area, afk and come back a while later at cap? Kinda like being dragged thru dungeons in WoW. If I wanted a no-brainer game, I'd log into FB

Buying and installing Abyssea doesn't force you to level while AFK. If you don't want to do it that way, then don't.
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#58 Oct 09 2011 at 11:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Another example is before I quit.. DNC was kind of a shunned job, it had a bad rap on my server because 95% of dancers ... didn't really do anything. I had somehow convinced a party to let me fill the 6th spot in their colibri party to get my dancer from 74 to 75... Now...I knew DNC like the back of my hand... so in this party I grabbed the attention of a certain individual whom insisted that I should join his EGLS, after all if I was this good with a DNC... surely I could show people some skill as my 75 Samurai with a merit or two.

...

Now... sure nice brag story... but underlying there are the two main points... I learned my job by leveling it.. and leveling it in parties, climbing through the levels in a party atmosphere, I was always learning how the better enhance my contribution to the group as a whole... not over-healing to pull hate, using stun flourishes to stop skills, ect. If I were to have leeched and blasted my way up.. I wouldn't have developed that second nature knack that can only come with time experience?


And here is the very point I and others often make that some people just never seem to understand. You got super awesome leveling dnc partying! Good for you! You learned your job because you leveled it in a traditional party!! We should bring that back so other people can learn too because everyones retarded now amirite!?

So if everyone leveled in an olschool style then why is it that:

Quote:
DNC was kind of a shunned job, it had a bad rap on my server because 95% of dancers ... didn't really do anything.


All those crappy dnc had to do the SAME thing you did. Why did they suck? The same reason you would get to a merit party and you would have DDs TPing in wyvern helms and dex rings. The same reason people didnt gear swap for WS. The same reason a rdm could be 75 and not be able to keep up a haste/refresh cycle. The same reason a Pld would show up in 5/5 AF to a colibri party and wonder why they cant keep hate. The same reason a thf meleed in agi and evasion gear.

It is the PERSON behind the moniter that makes a character rise or fall. No amount of grinding on crabs for 50 levels changes that. No amount of key whoring creates that. No game mechanic cmakes lazy/dumb/bad players. A good player will learn their job swiftly even if you hand them a lv 95 out of the box. A bad player will never learn it no materhow many crabs you force down their throat.

Unless, of course, you can explain how "95% of dance ... didn't really do anything." even though they had the same educational grindfest to 75 that YOU did that made you into such an outstanding specimen of Dnc kind. Grinding didnt fix 95% of the players in 2004. It wont fix them in 2011.
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#59 Dec 06 2011 at 11:49 PM Rating: Decent
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It is the PERSON behind the moniter that makes a character rise or fall. No amount of grinding on crabs for 50 levels changes that. No amount of key whoring creates that. No game mechanic cmakes lazy/dumb/bad players. A good player will learn their job swiftly even if you hand them a lv 95 out of the box. A bad player will never learn it no materhow many crabs you force down their throat.
While this is very true, there are a lot of hidden aspects to a job you don't master right off the bat. How best to position yourself as a Thief to land SA every time, how to avoid pulling aggro on Black Mage, how to survive if you do and so on. A lot of the jobs seem easy enough to play, but once you start them you realise there's a lot more to being good at the job, then simply winging it.

There are certainly some aspects of traditional grinding I miss. I miss the social aspect of forming smaller groups and meeting new people. I miss finding zones that are actually populated instead of vast empty wastelands. I miss having a reason to skillchain and magic burst (imo, they missed a trick with the weakness targeting, that could've made skillchains useful again, but I digress).

What I don't miss is the long waiting times for members, trying desperately to fill that last gap with a White Mage/Tank/Damage Dealer etc. Having to main heal on Summoner because they're effectively useless in any other role (Not as true any more, but it certainly used to be the case). Having so many jobs unloved, and relegating them to either solo play or 'friends only' groups.

It was a far from perfect system, and I'm sure even SE realises that much. Grounds of Valor and Abyssea opened up the game to a lot of players, and made it far more enjoyable. Let's not knock a good thing, as it might give Tanaka more reasons to nerf the hell out of it.
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#61 Dec 15 2011 at 11:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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We've had so many new JAs handed to us in the last year that even on jobs I grinded to 75 the Olde Skoole way, I've been at the same level of ability as a shiny level 95 that mooched in Abyssea last week. There are times when I forget about Manawell on BLM. There are times when I forget that on WHM/RDM I can cast phalanx on myself now. There are still times when I look at my bard JA list and go "What the heck did that new Marcato thing do again...?"

The only thing that teaches someone how to play a job is practice. Doesn't matter if that's practice at level 50 GoV with a pause for limit break, or practice soloing 95 on a burned job to get your skills up to par. Practice makes perfect.
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