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#27GatosFritos, Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 5:56 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Hi there, returning player here. I first played when FFXI released for the XBOX 360 and played casually for a few months, getting multiple jobs to 30-60. I didn't care much for getting to level cap, I just wanted to try as many jobs as I could.
#28 Jul 13 2011 at 7:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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They may have been fond memories, but they were only memories and it's not SE's fault you can't recapture them. It's just like seeing a great movie the second time - it will never have the shock and awe factor that it did the first. Your good memories of the past were due far less to the nature of the game and far more to the people you enjoyed discovering it with. That is something that no amount of game updates can create, nor any amount of nostalgia return.

The general feel was that the game was dead and buried before Abyssea came out. The game was topheavy with 75s and all low to mid level content died years ago. Gear had become either sideways progression or frustratingly impossible to upgrade. Salvage 35s and mythic weapons, oh boy.

Abyssea may have murdered exp parties in cold blood, but it DID keep the game afloat. I have a very strong suspicion that, had we not gotten it, and had FFXIV not turned out to be awful, then it would be the entire game that's a ghost town, not just the dunes.
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#29 Jul 13 2011 at 7:40 AM Rating: Good
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#30GatosFritos, Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 10:45 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I'm fully aware of all the problems that experience points parties brought to the game. Don't confuse what I'm really saying (that the good outweighed the bad for me) with what I'm not saying (that I'm viewing exp parties with rose tinted goggles).
#31GatosFritos, Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 10:51 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Uh, did you read what I said? Yes, my good memories of the past had to do with the people I enjoyed the game with, but the game FORCED that kind of cooperation and camaraderie to begin with. I've never had that kind of experience in World of Warcraft because the game's levelling experience is pretty much what FFXI is attempting to do right now, except more fleshed out because it's what WoW was designed for from the beginning - a game you could feel a sense of accomplishment in a matter of an hour or so. FFXI was built around the more time consuming process of finding a group of people and learning how to cooperate with them.
#32 Jul 13 2011 at 11:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Sigh. Of course it's only a temporary fix. You can only fix up an old machine so many times before it gets so many problems that it's simply good common sense to start completely from scratch. I don't think there's any doubt that we're considerably beyond FFXI's natural death date anymore. So maybe it's the undead zombie of a game, but at least it's one that some of us enjoy still playing. SE has been so hit and miss in the past that it's nothing short of a bloody miracle that I want to play this thing at all anymore.

The game you liked is dead to you. It died before Abyssea and it won't come back. The problems won't be fixed. The interface was upgraded this weekend - new linkpearl and mentor graphics! YEAH! I think that's about as much as we can expect for PS2 technology. And there will be less and less public interest in an MMO this old with such a hugely topheavy playerbase and it has nothing to do with how fast it takes to get Abyssea exp.

You throw around words like "community" and "teamwork," but I remember long fights with poor drop rates that made me quit this game in disgust a half dozen times. It's fun to fight the big baddy dragon with your 40-man multi-alliance group. The first few times. After the 10th, when only one or two people walked away with drops, it's just a grind, and usually one that only benefited the top tier of the linkshell.
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#33rdmcandie, Posted: Jul 14 2011 at 12:13 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) curious observation from someone who doesn't miss the old ****, but how is that everyone who says they do is default/subdefault.
#34 Jul 14 2011 at 1:35 PM Rating: Decent
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rdmcandie wrote:
curious observation from someone who doesn't miss the old sh*t, but how is that everyone who says they do is default/subdefault.



Yeah you're right, new users shouldn't be able to have opinions.
#35 Jul 15 2011 at 2:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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'Remembering the old days'....I just did that. It was good up until the point I realised that my nostalgia was heavily influenced by wearing rose-tinted specs.

Sure I have some good memories, my first 75 (PLD) took a year and I jumped around the room like I'd won the lottery for a couple of mins when it happened. From that point on it was just grinding out the exp in neverending parties. My 2nd 75 (WAR) took 2 weeks and after I'd managed to get that to 75 I was fed up of partying so much that I didn't level another 75 for quite a while afterwards.

I for one don't really want to go back to the old ways of levelling in parties anyway. They were a royal pain in the *** to construct, especially if like me you lived on GMT timezone and there's often not as many people to ask in the first place. I hated doing a /sea all invite 20-75 (***** the Dunes, I swore I'd never go back) for level sync and seeing 8 people total on jobs which you couldn't make a workable party with if you tried. That and there's only so many times I can see "{English}{Party}{No thanks}" in /seacom before I start to realise that building a PT just wasn't going to happen till much later in the day when the NA's logged on.

I far prefer being able to level quickly in Abyssea so I can go and do a ton of other things in my now expansive freetime.

I joined a Level Sync party for Colibri in W.Woodlands recently and realised just how boring and slow the old parties were. Mind numbingly boring. Grinding a job to level cap was about the most boring experience I can think of. I'm glad SE 'dumbed down' levelling because I was fed up of wasting hours trying to put parties together only to finally get to 6/6 and 2 members leave because they'd been waiting 2-3 hours and had to leave, then everyone says they aren't waiting another hour to get replacements and also leave.

I'm done with old fashioned parties. I just don't have the will to put them together anymore no matter how much extra exp you add to each kill.

Edited, Jul 15th 2011 8:09am by Gra
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#36 Jul 15 2011 at 5:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Some friends and I had a conversation about the game's past a while ago and I think the conversation ended with "man, this game used to be terrible".
#37 Jul 15 2011 at 3:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm glad about Abyssea because the rest of Vana'Diel is all mine now.
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#38GailC, Posted: Aug 04 2011 at 4:16 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) The problem I have with the current state of the game isn't that it's possible to blow through levels if you want to (the game is old enough that it would be almost impossible for a new player coming into the game to get up to speed otherwise, and I've had friends quit after trying the game and realizing it would take months of dedicated playing to make any progress).
#39 Aug 04 2011 at 5:54 AM Rating: Good
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EndlessJourney wrote:
Wonder Gem Pawkeshup wrote:
No thank you.

Leave it as it is. Soloing/Duoing is now possible. And parties can still be formed if you so desire.



I play a Massive Multiplayer Online Roll Playing Game to play with other people, not solo.

U NO RED GUD.

I said:
Wonder Gem Pawkeshup wrote:
No thank you.

Leave it as it is. Soloing/Duoing is now possible. And parties can still be formed if you so desire.

With the EXP boosts, parties will burn through camps faster, and I see parties and alliances doing GoV constantly. What I DON'T want is return to the days of sitting in Jeuno with my flag up or having to try to find a healer or a tank for my EXP party. The idea of a party was horrible. This game is not designed well for that. You can limp along without a tank, true. You can make due with odd jobs, true. But very few people WANT to do that.

EndlessJourney wrote:
Once again it's just this mentality now days that everyone is getting everything spoon fed to them so if you say anything against it you get burned at the stakes. Soloing and Duoing was always possible, but now it has taken a reverse. People use to not solo/duo because it was not worth it, now partying isn't worth it.
How is it not worth it? They increased the EXP, plus if you go into a dungeon, like Garliage Citadel, you can do pages while EXPing. Partying goes insanely fast now. But, read my above comments:

PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO SIT WAITING FOR 5 OTHER LIKE MINDED PEOPLE OF THE RIGHT JOBS TO PLAY THE GAME!

You're right, duoing was possible. And extremely slow past level 50. Trust me, my wife and I duo'd all the time. It was insanely slow going, and before the merge, parties were dead on Ramuh simply because people had reached the cap (75 at the time) and no one wanted to level sync just to tank/heal a party with no gain for them.

I don't want to be spoonfed, I want to PLAY. I want to LEVEL. I want to ENJOY this GAME, not go through an ordeal simply to PLAY this GAME.

You know what, ***** the rest of your points. You're stuck in the past, feeding yourself tasty nostalgia cake and forgetting the hellhole this GAME was. I remember when trying to solo past 10 was nearly impossible. I don't miss those days in the slightest.

GatosFritos wrote:
FFXI isn't the same. I had a huge sense of nostalgia coming back, but when I heard that the entire leveling up experience was gutted and that I would probably be the only person looking for a dunes party, I almost shed a tear. The only thing stopping me was that it is a video game.
You're KIDDING me. You ENJOYED sitting on your *** at a zone line waiting for a group? HAY I GOT A GREAT GAME FOR YOU ITS CALLED WATCH PAINT DRY!

GatosFritos wrote:
I think most would agree with me that what made FFXI great was the sense of teamwork and community that went along with progression. It appears to me that SE tried to fix very real problem but did not forsee the consequences.
There is still teamwork. You see, teamwork is still needed for:

- BCNM, KSNMs, KCNMs and HKCNMs
- Missions
- Quests
- Abyssea NMs
- Syngery
- Gods
- Dynamis
- Garrison
- Voidwatch
- VNMs

That's not ENOUGH for you? Who the **** cares about being forced to get 5 other people of the correct jobs together before you can play? Now you can grab a friend or two, or solo, or party. There are plenty of options now, and people seem to have forgotten that ALL EXP was boosted meaning that if you did form a party, you can go through that camp MUCH faster...

GatosFritos wrote:
Looking back, I'll admit that I hated the long wait times for parties, and the complete imbalance between DD classes that made some wait longer for invites than others.
Those are the last accurate things you said.

GatosFritos wrote:
So what does SE do? Add more DD/support classes with every expansion instead of tanks and dedicated healers, make soloing faster exp than a party, and allow people to cheese the system by leeching exp in Abyssea.
You joined at XBox launch, meaning that the only expansion you were here for was technically WotG. So what jobs did they add? A dedicated healer, and a hybrid healer/tank/dd in DNC. So point one = incorrect.

Soloing is faster than partying? ********* ALL exp got a bonus, so parties are now ridiculously faster than soloing. People just don't want to wait for a perfect party. Point two = incorrect

Leeching in Abyssea being abused? Well, first it's only really abusable by people with their level caps done, meaning long term players that have one or more 90's. I consider that a reward for having been there and done that. PLUS if you leech, you get what you deserve: Months of skilling up. It's no faster, you just wind up getting screwed on the back end. Point three = incorrect

GatosFritos wrote:
Way to kill the experience.
Because no one ever quit due to standing around and waiting. You know what, you and Endless should make your own game, and you guys can play it by yourselves. Don't cry when you quit.
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#40 Aug 17 2011 at 10:02 AM Rating: Default
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I personally miss groups. On Lev, we have hardly anyone even on the server to do that. I miss seeing how long the group could keep together. If the rdm left and no more refresh, then by golly that's when I would solo. It's a luck of the draw. I also miss having friends that I could tell and see if they wanted to knock out a few pages and bs while doing it. Now (at least on my server) there is not to many people who want to shoot the sh*t. I can't even find a ls. Can you guys tell me what server you are on and on average how many players are on at any given time? I think I might change servers as I miss playing so much. All the usual stomping grounds are a barren wasteland now. :(
#41 Aug 17 2011 at 6:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Most jobs seems to force you to pick one of damage, healing and tanking. I've always felt that heading out solo and fight monsters always makes me wish I had someone to fill the other two slots if I picked damage since most monsters like to throw blind, paralyze and slow at you most of the time. So you really want a group to level up with in this game so you can combine your powers and fight tougher foes. That's how it used to be at least.

The problem I have with leveling up is that it bores me and there exist other options to work around it (Abyssea comes to mind here). I don't feel any level progression because of level sync keeps me at a certain level so I could fight crabs in Qufim forever if I wanted to without getting the feeling of becoming stronger. I feel that in every update they remove one part of the gameplay while leveling up. The reason why I mention this is that first they removed the necessity of skillchains, then removed the necessity of having a tank, then removed the necessity of enfeeblings and so on. Skillchains were never balanced in parties to favor all jobs as you would end up fighting crabs, flies, crawlers and spiders most of the time and distortion were favored for the most part. Needing a tank would require you to look after either PLD or NIN. Because of they keep making leveling up simpler with each update I feel that I rather want to leech in a fell cleave party rather than killing the same bat 5 times and return to a book and receive another order to kill 5 bats. Not to mention that 90% of my abilities covers dust while fighting easy preys.

I don't think the answer is to put level 90 mobs in starter zones.
#42 Aug 18 2011 at 8:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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EndlessJourney wrote:


I play a Massive Multiplayer Online Roll Playing Game to play with other people, not solo. Once again it's just this mentality now days that everyone is getting everything spoon fed to them so if you say anything against it you get burned at the stakes.


Well, I play to have fun, not to fill up your party. Make some friends and then level sync in the old world if you want to. I'm sure that there are other like-minded folks that believe the mmo experience should be PT or GTFO.

The rest of us moved on from the 6 man party to the 18 man alliance for our leveling needs. Gosh, if you play an mmo to play with other people, isn't 18 > 6? That's three times as many people for you to group with at any given level range.

No, this game needed this overhaul especially with the eventual cap of 99. Otherwise, it would be impossible for anyone new to get into the game. As it stands now, we are seeing folks returning and not dreading the "grind" to get to the point where they can play with their friends and newly-found ls mates. Every job is welcome into the alliance because they just need to get butts in the seats. No more parties that don't happen if a RDM or a BRD isn't available (meripo). No more parties that don't happen if the ideal camp is taken. No more scratching our asses while everyone begs their LS for someone to come tank. No more hoping that someone is bored enough to PL.

Now we get to throw any random combination of 18 people together and go do pages. If anything, the game has gotten MORE social now that all jobs are pretty much welcome.

You are looking at it from the wrong point of view.
#43 Aug 21 2011 at 3:14 PM Rating: Decent
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This is my first post, so excuse my noobness.
There's lots of good posts here. I'm pretty new to the game, but
I always remember some of my best times on this game where in parties.
Not everybody agrees, but I've only ever played where level sync was part of y
The game. Anyways if any of you guys are on Cerberus and want to duo/party send me a
/tell Kitha.
#44 Aug 21 2011 at 6:53 PM Rating: Default
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simply all he really asked was to make it so you could gain almost the same exp rate for doing something versus doing nothing (key whoring or standing in abyssea). I don't see why so many are against this. If you do not personally want to deal with the hassle you could just take the abyssea route, for people who actually want a gaming experience they can actually earn their exp. What is the problem?
#45 Aug 22 2011 at 9:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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haife wrote:
simply all he really asked was to make it so you could gain almost the same exp rate for doing something versus doing nothing (key whoring or standing in abyssea). I don't see why so many are against this. If you do not personally want to deal with the hassle you could just take the abyssea route, for people who actually want a gaming experience they can actually earn their exp. What is the problem?

Because giving "almost the same" exp rate isn't going to revive party play. It's going to require giving a substantially better exp rate to motivate players to endure the hassles of an old school, traditional SC+MB party.

Players didn't sit around for hours hoping for the right jobs to form a decent party because the exp itself was so much fun. They did it because it was the best way to get exp at the time.
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#46 Aug 22 2011 at 12:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Because giving "almost the same" exp rate isn't going to revive party play. It's going to require giving a substantially better exp rate to motivate players to endure the hassles of an old school, traditional SC+MB party.


But even that won't discourage people from key leeching in abyssea. The only way to stop the key leeching is capping the zones, or dragging the xp model back into the stone ages where if you had a high level in the party, you got zip. Neither option is very appealing. It won't matter if you make 6 man parties give 1k xp per mob with a 10k bonus at each level 5 chain - key leeching is the path of least resistance.

Sometimes we have to say goodbye to the past to make way for the future.

The 6 man party had its day, but it's over now. Why would anyone want to go back to a time where you were skipped over unless you were a SAM, a BRD, or a RDM? Why would anyone want to go back to a time where you couldn't get your beastmaster buddy in because his job was "lol"? Why would anyone want to go back to that horribly unfriendly environment?

If people still want to 6 man it, there is nothing stopping them. If it's truly about love of the 6 man party, grab FoV pages and go with some friends\like-minded individuals.

Don't lobby to force it on the rest of us who are happy to see the days of job discrimination long gone.
#47LadyVaJedi, Posted: Sep 14 2011 at 7:51 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I agree bring back the ole fashion exp parties plz. Forcing people to do alliance parties isn't right either. That is what is happing right now.
#48 Sep 14 2011 at 9:27 AM Rating: Good
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Nobody is being forced into doing anything. You can try to form a usual 6-man party just as in the old days. Just, good luck finding five other willing participants around your level or willing to synch down to it, and good luck finding enough relevant gear for that level range. The AH is bare at mid levels these days and what few things are up move slowly. I ended up NPCing almost every piece of gear I bought for DRG before 70 simply because it wasn't selling, and at 10k or less wasn't worth the fight with the AH.

People are like water; they take the path of least resistance. Even if traditional exp parties give huge, huge exp - maybe even DOUBLE the exp of GoV (roughly 5k every 5-10 min or so) - killing weenie EP mobs for 2.5k a page is an attractive, easy, risk free way of exping that I don't think many would want to give up.
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#49 Sep 14 2011 at 11:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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LadyVaJedi wrote:
I agree bring back the ole fashion exp parties plz. Forcing people to do alliance parties isn't right either. That is what is happing right now.

And back during the old fashioned exp parties, you were "forced" to level one of the select few jobs people wanted, or you would sit around Jeuno for hours and hours with no invite. The current Abyssea environment is a lot more friendly to a wider variety of jobs, at least where exp is concerned.
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#50 Sep 15 2011 at 9:42 AM Rating: Default
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The Alliance parties can also make your skills out of wack and people are still going to need to skill up as well outside of the alliance parties.
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#51 Sep 15 2011 at 10:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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LadyVaJedi wrote:
The Alliance parties can also make your skills out of wack and people are still going to need to skill up as well outside of the alliance parties.


And we have a solution for that as well: Allow skillups in campaign. It's a win\win situation. There's already a thread here about it. People can work on their skills, and those of us who actually enjoyed doing things in the past will be able to do them again when the allies actually start controlling places.

It's a better solution than going back to the 6 man format we had before. I'd rather enjoy the game on my terms, in my time, on my chosen job, than have to level ******* red mage again just to get in a meripo. No thanks.

The one thing that I love about this new method of leveling is the pick up aspect. You can literally log in and if you want to party, it's right there. No more waiting for hours with a flag up, only to log off disappointed. No more /sea all 55-60 pld or rdm. No more staring at spinning moogles and listening to idiots in ls chat argue over which beer is better.

There is even a huge influx of noobs - and I mean like real wet behind the ears no clue what they are doing noobs - not returning veterans. And you know what the difference is this time around?

None of them are leaving because they got frustrated and tired of waiting around for one of your old school parties.
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