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#1 Jun 03 2011 at 2:50 AM Rating: Default
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There are many things in the game right now that need to be addressed, but there is one I think is rather important that I would like to discuss today. Something that is a very easy fix that should have been done already.

Please Bring Back Traditional Experience Points Parties.

As of now, if you are a new adventurer you will likely solo your way up to about 30, possibly getting into a small two or three man group a time or two along the way. Once you reach 30, you can essentially go into Abyssea, stand in one place with no gear on and open little boxes (IF THAT. Some people are invited simply to stand there and do nothing) for as little as 12 or so hours to reach the level cap. This is a major problem.

For those who already leveled up the old fashion way, before Abyssea, it's not such a big deal. But for new adventurers this really takes away both the immersion and personal development they gain from experience points parties and actually interacting instead of just standing around to get to level cap. It also introduces them to many new areas along the way in a much more linear fashion.

People may argue this but honestly, do you feel leveling up in your game should come down to some one simply by standing in one place, doing nothing but opening coffers (IF THAT) to go from level 30 to 90?

Even if this is so, please give people the option to party. You do not even have to penalize or change Abyssea and can make it fun for everyone to do. I absolutely do not think the old fashion rate of Experience Points needs to come back, but partying does!

So what's the solution? It's very simple. Just increase the experience points that non abyssea monsters give while in a party. The bigger the party, the better the gain, all the way up to 6 people like it was originally intended. Leave the alliance experience points parties to Abyssea or higher levels. A six person or less party develops the skills in new adventurers to know how to operate, but it doesn't need to take forever either. Allow for many different job options and combination's as well, so that adventurers are never left out nor feel excluded.

My idea, would be that the experience points on ordinary experience party monsters outside of Abyssea would increase with each kill the higher the experience points chain grew. Previously and Currently, this would cap around 300-500 a kill, so why not simply INCREASE that number AND make experience points chains easier to get across the levels? It encourages people to do their best and focus while rewarding them greatly and making things fun as well.

It's not just new adventurers, but old adventurers like myself really would like some more options aside from simply abyssea. I would like to level up in a party, with fellow adventurers across the many lands of Vana Diel once more, but there's no reason it needs to be slow either.

Make it to where the experience points is comparable to Abyssea, just in a different setting and area, giving people options and letting new adventurers experience how to properly interact and gain the skills they need.

Along with the wonderful Level Sync function, you could breathe new life back into partying and make the game feel much less lonely and take people out of one area for experience points.

Again, the Experience Points Gain rate should be comparable to Abyssea, if not a slight bit less, but very close in the least.

Say you're in a six person party, you're synced to level 52 and battling crabs in Kuftal Tunnel.

Chain 1-10 gives you 300-500 Experience Points Per Kill, chain 10-20 gives you 500-1000 Experience Points Per Kill, chain 20-30 gives you 1000-2000 Experience Points Per Kill and so on and so forth. This is just an example.

Of course, I think the rate in which combat AND magic skills are gained would definitely need to be increased, but as of now they already do. You have people going into Abyssea and standing around from levels 30>90 not gaining the proper skills then trying to catch them up and sadly, it's not really their fault either, for this is what has been imposed on them.

It would make for more diversity in experience points gain, give people more options and REALLY would help out the new adventurers. It would really be a nice change for the veterans as well.

Again, the Experience Points Gain rate would need to be close to that of Abyssea, but at this point when that's all anyone does now all it can do is help the game and breathe new life into the very system that made this game so fun and unique.

So please, implement something like this, for the new adventurers and for veterans alike, to have more diversity, to better hone their skills and for a much better experience than standing in one place opening a bunch of little boxes for hours on end.

Thank you.

Edited, Jun 3rd 2011 1:54am by EndlessJourney
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#2 Jun 03 2011 at 3:01 AM Rating: Good
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Forcing people to party up hasnt been a good thing since 2003. Making experience points "better" when in a party pretty much sums up the whole forcing part. It's going to produce elitism, selective job pickings and what else not. Just like before.

If it was a bad idea in the past, simply changing EXP gain isnt going to fix that bad idea. If i want to solo for EXP better than a party, and CAN solo for exp better than a party, let me. Dont make us have to team up and get back into the whole "You do only this, you do only that". It's not going to get better until the roles are gone and people can just do what they want in a party.
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#3 Jun 03 2011 at 3:05 AM Rating: Default
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KojiroSoma wrote:
Forcing people to party up hasnt been a good thing since 2003. Making experience points "better" when in a party pretty much sums up the whole forcing part. It's going to produce elitism, selective job pickings and what else not. Just like before.

If it was a bad idea in the past, simply changing EXP gain isnt going to fix that bad idea. If i want to solo for EXP better than a party, and CAN solo for exp better than a party, let me. Dont make us have to team up and get back into the whole "You do only this, you do only that". It's not going to get better until the roles are gone and people can just do what they want in a party.


As I said in my post. This can be easily addressed by making sure there is not job exclusivity or a high demand for elitism. Make it to where everyone can get easy invites and have fun. Make the experience points easy to gain, for example Tough and Very Tough monsters would give the best experience points chains even over Incredibly Tough. That could solve the issue entirely. This could let people actually enjoy themselves in a party and not feel so pressured while still teaching them how to preform various tasks.

I think it would be nice to at least give people the option to party instead of FORCING them to open the little boxes and stand around doing nothing in Abyssea. As I said, they don't have to punish that or take it away, just give people the OPTION to party if they want to and make it to where it is not job exclusive and to where it is not gear exclusive. There are ways for this to be done, quite easily. Please look at the big picture, standing around opening little boxes doing nothing from 30 to 90 does not make leveling up interesting or enjoyable and ruins a big part of the game that could be a lot of fun.

Edited, Jun 3rd 2011 2:07am by EndlessJourney
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#4 Jun 03 2011 at 5:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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People do have an option, but just as people favored 2xBRD, RDM, and 3 heavy DDs for colibri, you'll find people are favoring the superior option of playing the key ***** if they're willing to either arrange an alliance, pay to get into one, or get lucky enough to leech with their LS/friends. Sync parties still happen, but ultimately you're never gonna fully get rid of "roles" because that simply comes with jobs being different.
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#5 Jun 03 2011 at 6:13 AM Rating: Good
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6-man exp parties brought out all the worst things about FFXI. A job had to justify their damage output, direct or indirect, against every other job to even get invites (or to keep them if starting their own party - don't kid yourself that starting is the answer.) Because of the way the game is, the VAST MAJORITY of the jobs failed to keep up entirely. Encouraging a return to these six-man groups would just shut out 80% of the jobs again. This is not a step forward.
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#6 Jun 03 2011 at 6:51 AM Rating: Default
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@ Seriha, it's not much of an option when you can go into Abyssea and go from 30>90 literally hundreds of times quicker than you could in even the best experience points parties right now. I think the playing field should be more level.

@ Erecia, and to the people who keep dwelling on the idea that just because something was done in the olden' FFXI that it must be bad forever more, I say once again there are ways, things that could be implemented to allow people to not be excluded and to allow everyone to have fun. Like I said, for an example, if only Tough-Rated monsters gave these such chains it could alleviate that very problem. That's just one example though. I agree that there should be ways from keeping people feeling less excluded, but at the very least they would STILL have all the options they do as of now. I just think it would be nice if small man parties were brought back for experience points. I met some of the greatest people and had some of the greatest times doing such back in the day, and that was often on jobs that got very rare invites like THF, DRK and PLD.

I feel some times as though people have so much of a tunnel vision to things. They only see the good as good and only see the bad as what it once was. This is a video game, the possibilities are endless. Yes, problems existed with MANY parts of the game back in the day, but as we see now those problems have fixes to them and does not mean such content should be ignored and overlooked.
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#7 Jun 03 2011 at 8:27 AM Rating: Good
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People who actually care are going to do it the "hard" way - and not key *****. Many FFXI veterans who are returning on new characters are opting to solo their way up since it's so fast now, and even I've made the decision to not key-leech certain jobs like PUP and MNK where I'll be deprived of those critical guard skillups. A person who re-started just a few weeks has solo'd himself all the way through 50 SAM already!

I like soloing now. I can log in, pop a ring, do a page, and knock out a level without 1. having to seek a party or 2. deal with other people.
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#8 Jun 03 2011 at 8:41 AM Rating: Good
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@ Seriha, it's not much of an option when you can go into Abyssea and go from 30>90 literally hundreds of times quicker than you could in even the best experience points parties right now. I think the playing field should be more level.


While I'm in favor of buffing outer-world options over the inane "raise the cap to 70+" movement, normal parties are still an option, and it's not really Abyssea that's contributing to their rarity. Rather, conveniently having 6+ people your range of the right jobs for VT grind is not common anymore. Others leveling quickly in Abyssea may be contributing to this, but you also have others taking the initiative to solo, possibly have a secondary account for healing, and just the player base in general being more top-heavy. We're not in 2005 anymore and fresh blood isn't as plentiful.
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#9 Jun 04 2011 at 11:55 AM Rating: Default
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Minimum abyssea level 65?
#10 Jun 04 2011 at 12:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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As someone who just restarted I did a lot of parties from 1-60 - after that it got sucky but I think GoV is helping with that a lot already.

Honestly there is nothing stopping people from forming parties already - and GoV has some really nice exp rates, and there is a real benefit to partying while doing it because the faster your kills are, the faster you get pages, the faster your exp adds up.

I would, however, REALLY like to see campaign fixed. It IS broken right now. It would be great if they overhauled it and tuned it to be the one of the best ways to get exp/skill ups for people from 55-75 since both of those things get hard to get in those levels. I guess I just feel sad cause the event is so broken right now and I would really like to do it but the exp is terribad, you can't get skill ups and it was never really meant to be soloed/duoed.
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#11 Jun 14 2011 at 5:22 AM Rating: Decent
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I noticed while ******** around in Crawler's Nest that an entire alliance was taking on bees and crawlers to burn Gov pages, I thought it was a good idea.
#12 Jun 14 2011 at 11:08 AM Rating: Good
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Bring back parties. . .

Are there any tanks LFP?

Nope.

Wait theres a Ninja

He says {Meat} {Shield} {No Thanks}

Oh hey a Pld just popped up

The Rdm just left. So we have no refresh

2 hours later.

Hey a Rdm just showed up.

The Pld just went to bed.

Not to mention that most camps in the old world only support 3-4 levels. eg Qufim 20-24, 1st jungle 24-27, 2nd jungle 28-30 etc.

Until you get to the levels where refresh is available, 41 refresh, 55 ballad 2. Its lack of curing power/refresh that holds parties back. And you can try Colbri parties, but until 74 and DD's getting Utsemi:Ni from /nin its hard to do. And heaven help you if you just pick up some /random person.
#13EndlessJourney, Posted: Jun 14 2011 at 5:16 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) It never ceases to amaze me at just how closed minded people are. Why is it all anyone can do is see the bad in previous things? Did you all really hate the game that much back in the day? Did you not enjoy teaming up with five other adventurers and getting to know them? Going to various camps and leveling up? Of course there were problems with the old system. I've said several times now there would need to be things put in place to make sure those problems didn't present themselves once more. But do people hear me? No, they are def to it. What about the fact that you could still solo and burn in Abyssea if you wanted to, it would just be another option for people who DO want to do it? No, people will still not allow it. This closed minded mentality and tunnel vision is what holds back so many things in life and in this game.
#14 Jun 15 2011 at 6:04 AM Rating: Good
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You fail to understand that people gravitate towards the easiest way to do things. People used to gather into parties becasue it was better XP than soloing. PERIOD. Then someone realized that BLM could get better xp solo at certain levels solo than with a party. Then TOA came out and if you were not a piercing jobs ( Drg, War or Sam ) you could not get a party. I ended up leveling my thf and nin solo for the most part 65-75 because of this. I could not get a party, People would not even join my party if they saw I was on thf or nin.

Nowadays if I want to meet /random people, just join a shout group in Port Jueno. Somedays trying to get 4 poeple to get the right jobs just to kill simple Seal mobs can be a migraine inducing experience.

#15 Jun 15 2011 at 6:57 AM Rating: Good
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No, people will still not allow it
Ummm....

Who's stopping anyone ? I still Party, Solo, Duo all the time (when opportunity arises and its appropriate).

I play for fun & more importantly, recognize that others do also !^^

and one mans fun is another mans grind
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#16tarutso, Posted: Jun 25 2011 at 2:49 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) As a returning player I agree with the ends as to what the OP is aiming for but perhaps not the means.
#17 Jun 27 2011 at 4:15 AM Rating: Good
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How exactly is going to reduce the amount of exp you're getting from GoV on an hourly bases a good thing. You want to make it less zergy, fine. But putting a cooldown on it is going to make it go the way of Chocobo racing faster than you can say "spoony bard".

And for that matter, how is restricting Abyssea a good thing? You're a returning player, and yes the game -has- changed. But here's the thing, it's not going to change back and the game is certainly not going to get harder. Get used to how things are not before you opt to restrict something unnessesairy.

Despite what's being said and posted, the only real reason the more vocal forum people are against lower levels getting into abyssea is because they themselves dont want to form a party for it. Or dont get invited unless they do. You'd be hard pressed finding anyone willing to party without someone doing keys and someone who needs a lot of levels taking initiative of starting it.

And let's not forget that there's plenty of jobs that can contribute as early as 50. And for everything else, there's Atma's to compensate.

But hey, if someone can do something you cannot, it's unfair, right?

It's your own **** choice if you want to have a lower level in your alliance or only invite people who are level 90 and have fully completed relics/Empy's. It's more fun to do it with whoever you want to do it as well...
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#18 Jun 27 2011 at 12:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Like it or not, there are things people can do in Abyssea at 30, as well, and I'm not talking about key whoring. The first and obvious plus is people getting their stone timer going. Sooner the better. Next is general questing and fame building, as a lot of the popular ones are just trade-ins or go-to/fetch quests. Not everyone has BLM at 70+, and some like using Warp to exit instead of Mawing out. A level 30 BLM/whatever will have more MP than a WAR/BLM before gear, so that means a little less time resting between trips, or blowing cruor on the MP buff as a pseudo-refill.

In short, get over the 30 cap, people. It's not changing.
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#19 Jun 30 2011 at 11:57 PM Rating: Decent
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EndlessJourney wrote:
There are many things in the game right now that need to be addressed, but there is one I think is rather important that I would like to discuss today. Something that is a very easy fix that should have been done already.

Please Bring Back Traditional Experience Points Parties.

As of now, if you are a new adventurer you will likely solo your way up to about 30, possibly getting into a small two or three man group a time or two along the way. Once you reach 30, you can essentially go into Abyssea, stand in one place with no gear on and open little boxes (IF THAT. Some people are invited simply to stand there and do nothing) for as little as 12 or so hours to reach the level cap. This is a major problem.

For those who already leveled up the old fashion way, before Abyssea, it's not such a big deal. But for new adventurers this really takes away both the immersion and personal development they gain from experience points parties and actually interacting instead of just standing around to get to level cap. It also introduces them to many new areas along the way in a much more linear fashion.

People may argue this but honestly, do you feel leveling up in your game should come down to some one simply by standing in one place, doing nothing but opening coffers (IF THAT) to go from level 30 to 90?

Even if this is so, please give people the option to party. You do not even have to penalize or change Abyssea and can make it fun for everyone to do. I absolutely do not think the old fashion rate of Experience Points needs to come back, but partying does!

So what's the solution? It's very simple. Just increase the experience points that non abyssea monsters give while in a party. The bigger the party, the better the gain, all the way up to 6 people like it was originally intended. Leave the alliance experience points parties to Abyssea or higher levels. A six person or less party develops the skills in new adventurers to know how to operate, but it doesn't need to take forever either. Allow for many different job options and combination's as well, so that adventurers are never left out nor feel excluded.

My idea, would be that the experience points on ordinary experience party monsters outside of Abyssea would increase with each kill the higher the experience points chain grew. Previously and Currently, this would cap around 300-500 a kill, so why not simply INCREASE that number AND make experience points chains easier to get across the levels? It encourages people to do their best and focus while rewarding them greatly and making things fun as well.

It's not just new adventurers, but old adventurers like myself really would like some more options aside from simply abyssea. I would like to level up in a party, with fellow adventurers across the many lands of Vana Diel once more, but there's no reason it needs to be slow either.

Make it to where the experience points is comparable to Abyssea, just in a different setting and area, giving people options and letting new adventurers experience how to properly interact and gain the skills they need.

Along with the wonderful Level Sync function, you could breathe new life back into partying and make the game feel much less lonely and take people out of one area for experience points.

Again, the Experience Points Gain rate should be comparable to Abyssea, if not a slight bit less, but very close in the least.

Say you're in a six person party, you're synced to level 52 and battling crabs in Kuftal Tunnel.

Chain 1-10 gives you 300-500 Experience Points Per Kill, chain 10-20 gives you 500-1000 Experience Points Per Kill, chain 20-30 gives you 1000-2000 Experience Points Per Kill and so on and so forth. This is just an example.

Of course, I think the rate in which combat AND magic skills are gained would definitely need to be increased, but as of now they already do. You have people going into Abyssea and standing around from levels 30>90 not gaining the proper skills then trying to catch them up and sadly, it's not really their fault either, for this is what has been imposed on them.

It would make for more diversity in experience points gain, give people more options and REALLY would help out the new adventurers. It would really be a nice change for the veterans as well.

Again, the Experience Points Gain rate would need to be close to that of Abyssea, but at this point when that's all anyone does now all it can do is help the game and breathe new life into the very system that made this game so fun and unique.

So please, implement something like this, for the new adventurers and for veterans alike, to have more diversity, to better hone their skills and for a much better experience than standing in one place opening a bunch of little boxes for hours on end.

Thank you.

Edited, Jun 3rd 2011 1:54am by EndlessJourney


Despite what the masses say against the few, I am in agreement. This is not the same game.

It's like SE put a Fast Forward button on "growing up" in Vana'diel, and made it meaningless to savor everything the game has to offer, and how the game was made to be a team effort. People were GLAD to FINALLY get their gear/weapon/items/gil etc. Seriously, now it's having to spend all your time endlessly in an "end game" environment grinding away for that seal or NM boss kill, or whatever. WHY oh WHY can't this happen outside of abyssea.. why did this have to be it's own place that leaves the Vana'diel I once knew more of a wasteland??
#20 Jul 01 2011 at 6:57 AM Rating: Good
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No thank you.

Leave it as it is. Soloing/Duoing is now possible. And parties can still be formed if you so desire.
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#21 Jul 01 2011 at 10:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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Man, we already DID that growing up stuff. We did it to death. The mystique is gone, man, and we can't have it back. It died long before abyssea came out. That's why there were summoner burns; that's why there were job leveling services; that's why there was power leveling almost from day one. To speed that crap up.

You want to savor? Go savor. All the zones are still there. Have fun camping long-repop NMs with low drop rates for gear that you don't want.
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#22EndlessJourney, Posted: Jul 02 2011 at 3:27 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I play a Massive Multiplayer Online Roll Playing Game to play with other people, not solo. Once again it's just this mentality now days that everyone is getting everything spoon fed to them so if you say anything against it you get burned at the stakes. Soloing and Duoing was always possible, but now it has taken a reverse. People use to not solo/duo because it was not worth it, now partying isn't worth it. To be honest I'd like there to be advantages to doing both. For some reason, people in life seem to only want things they way THEY see fit for THEM and even if it doesn't harm them they don't want what others may. It's a very selfish and closed minded attitude. For the record, I'd like soloing/duoing/partying in 6 man groups to all be possible, streamlined and offer it's own advantage to encourage people to do it.
#23BlynkTheSneak, Posted: Jul 02 2011 at 3:59 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Most of those things you suggested above, like powerleveling or summoner burns, were the result of people wanting faster XP. I don't think the OP is suggesting slower XP, he just wants more routes to obtain it.
#24Seedling, Posted: Jul 05 2011 at 4:30 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) The only way to get people back partying is to limit xp gain based on level, while in Abyssea. The same penalty that applies to Dom Ops should be applied to the max xp cap and blue chest xp, so -2% xp per level before 75. (A level 30 with capped xp gain would earn only 10% of 600 = 60 xp per kill, or 100 xp for a 1000 xp chest.)
#25 Jul 05 2011 at 12:19 PM Rating: Good
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Making party-based XP outside Abyssea comparable to what we get from Abyssea doesn't sound like a bad thing. It doesn't seem to me he wants anything taken away from Abyssea, so I don't see an issue there. I like having more options available. I don't necessarily agree with all the reasoning behind it, but I can get behind the idea.
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#26 Jul 05 2011 at 2:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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When people start talking about changing the level cap or nerfing EXP gains, that's pretty much the definition of taking away on some level. Either way, old-school leveling wasn't some magical, mystical prospect, let alone one rife with exploration. You got your invite, a camp was picked, and you got there ASAP with little tolerance for detours or blunders (Like Guivre eating you in Kuftal). You maybe had 2-3 ideal camps per range, with most not knowing the obscure spots or even being willing to travel to them. Aside from Dweaps and KRT, partying pretty much meant standing there killing X number of mobs until either you outleveled them or people got bored.

Even when it came to colibri parties, leveling in the old days was a miserable, needlessly long process where people who died consistently like sac pullers and tanks were often left hanging because they weren't ideal killers. Even sucking down RR2s from consumables, those deaths would add up. Nowadays? It's rare to see people flipping out over dying when it comes to the EXP loss. It's a good thing, because focus can remain on things that actually matter, and not the nagging worry that for 4 hours of Dynamis, you'd have to spend another 8+ LFG/Partying to get back to where you were.

And while it's fine to criticize Abyssea, do it for the right reasons like congestion issues or job discrimination with the proc system, not frickin' EXP. People didn't "know" their jobs beforehand, and even if Abyssea wasn't an option, it'd be back to Astral Burns or colibri syncs until they could. Same net effect of **** for skills if they weren't using a job they could've skilled it on beforehand.
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