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Bring Back Parties.Follow

#1 Jun 03 2011 at 2:50 AM Rating: Default
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There are many things in the game right now that need to be addressed, but there is one I think is rather important that I would like to discuss today. Something that is a very easy fix that should have been done already.

Please Bring Back Traditional Experience Points Parties.

As of now, if you are a new adventurer you will likely solo your way up to about 30, possibly getting into a small two or three man group a time or two along the way. Once you reach 30, you can essentially go into Abyssea, stand in one place with no gear on and open little boxes (IF THAT. Some people are invited simply to stand there and do nothing) for as little as 12 or so hours to reach the level cap. This is a major problem.

For those who already leveled up the old fashion way, before Abyssea, it's not such a big deal. But for new adventurers this really takes away both the immersion and personal development they gain from experience points parties and actually interacting instead of just standing around to get to level cap. It also introduces them to many new areas along the way in a much more linear fashion.

People may argue this but honestly, do you feel leveling up in your game should come down to some one simply by standing in one place, doing nothing but opening coffers (IF THAT) to go from level 30 to 90?

Even if this is so, please give people the option to party. You do not even have to penalize or change Abyssea and can make it fun for everyone to do. I absolutely do not think the old fashion rate of Experience Points needs to come back, but partying does!

So what's the solution? It's very simple. Just increase the experience points that non abyssea monsters give while in a party. The bigger the party, the better the gain, all the way up to 6 people like it was originally intended. Leave the alliance experience points parties to Abyssea or higher levels. A six person or less party develops the skills in new adventurers to know how to operate, but it doesn't need to take forever either. Allow for many different job options and combination's as well, so that adventurers are never left out nor feel excluded.

My idea, would be that the experience points on ordinary experience party monsters outside of Abyssea would increase with each kill the higher the experience points chain grew. Previously and Currently, this would cap around 300-500 a kill, so why not simply INCREASE that number AND make experience points chains easier to get across the levels? It encourages people to do their best and focus while rewarding them greatly and making things fun as well.

It's not just new adventurers, but old adventurers like myself really would like some more options aside from simply abyssea. I would like to level up in a party, with fellow adventurers across the many lands of Vana Diel once more, but there's no reason it needs to be slow either.

Make it to where the experience points is comparable to Abyssea, just in a different setting and area, giving people options and letting new adventurers experience how to properly interact and gain the skills they need.

Along with the wonderful Level Sync function, you could breathe new life back into partying and make the game feel much less lonely and take people out of one area for experience points.

Again, the Experience Points Gain rate should be comparable to Abyssea, if not a slight bit less, but very close in the least.

Say you're in a six person party, you're synced to level 52 and battling crabs in Kuftal Tunnel.

Chain 1-10 gives you 300-500 Experience Points Per Kill, chain 10-20 gives you 500-1000 Experience Points Per Kill, chain 20-30 gives you 1000-2000 Experience Points Per Kill and so on and so forth. This is just an example.

Of course, I think the rate in which combat AND magic skills are gained would definitely need to be increased, but as of now they already do. You have people going into Abyssea and standing around from levels 30>90 not gaining the proper skills then trying to catch them up and sadly, it's not really their fault either, for this is what has been imposed on them.

It would make for more diversity in experience points gain, give people more options and REALLY would help out the new adventurers. It would really be a nice change for the veterans as well.

Again, the Experience Points Gain rate would need to be close to that of Abyssea, but at this point when that's all anyone does now all it can do is help the game and breathe new life into the very system that made this game so fun and unique.

So please, implement something like this, for the new adventurers and for veterans alike, to have more diversity, to better hone their skills and for a much better experience than standing in one place opening a bunch of little boxes for hours on end.

Thank you.

Edited, Jun 3rd 2011 1:54am by EndlessJourney
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#2 Jun 03 2011 at 3:01 AM Rating: Good
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Forcing people to party up hasnt been a good thing since 2003. Making experience points "better" when in a party pretty much sums up the whole forcing part. It's going to produce elitism, selective job pickings and what else not. Just like before.

If it was a bad idea in the past, simply changing EXP gain isnt going to fix that bad idea. If i want to solo for EXP better than a party, and CAN solo for exp better than a party, let me. Dont make us have to team up and get back into the whole "You do only this, you do only that". It's not going to get better until the roles are gone and people can just do what they want in a party.
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#3 Jun 03 2011 at 3:05 AM Rating: Default
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KojiroSoma wrote:
Forcing people to party up hasnt been a good thing since 2003. Making experience points "better" when in a party pretty much sums up the whole forcing part. It's going to produce elitism, selective job pickings and what else not. Just like before.

If it was a bad idea in the past, simply changing EXP gain isnt going to fix that bad idea. If i want to solo for EXP better than a party, and CAN solo for exp better than a party, let me. Dont make us have to team up and get back into the whole "You do only this, you do only that". It's not going to get better until the roles are gone and people can just do what they want in a party.


As I said in my post. This can be easily addressed by making sure there is not job exclusivity or a high demand for elitism. Make it to where everyone can get easy invites and have fun. Make the experience points easy to gain, for example Tough and Very Tough monsters would give the best experience points chains even over Incredibly Tough. That could solve the issue entirely. This could let people actually enjoy themselves in a party and not feel so pressured while still teaching them how to preform various tasks.

I think it would be nice to at least give people the option to party instead of FORCING them to open the little boxes and stand around doing nothing in Abyssea. As I said, they don't have to punish that or take it away, just give people the OPTION to party if they want to and make it to where it is not job exclusive and to where it is not gear exclusive. There are ways for this to be done, quite easily. Please look at the big picture, standing around opening little boxes doing nothing from 30 to 90 does not make leveling up interesting or enjoyable and ruins a big part of the game that could be a lot of fun.

Edited, Jun 3rd 2011 2:07am by EndlessJourney
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#4 Jun 03 2011 at 5:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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People do have an option, but just as people favored 2xBRD, RDM, and 3 heavy DDs for colibri, you'll find people are favoring the superior option of playing the key ***** if they're willing to either arrange an alliance, pay to get into one, or get lucky enough to leech with their LS/friends. Sync parties still happen, but ultimately you're never gonna fully get rid of "roles" because that simply comes with jobs being different.
#5 Jun 03 2011 at 6:13 AM Rating: Good
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6-man exp parties brought out all the worst things about FFXI. A job had to justify their damage output, direct or indirect, against every other job to even get invites (or to keep them if starting their own party - don't kid yourself that starting is the answer.) Because of the way the game is, the VAST MAJORITY of the jobs failed to keep up entirely. Encouraging a return to these six-man groups would just shut out 80% of the jobs again. This is not a step forward.
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#6 Jun 03 2011 at 6:51 AM Rating: Default
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@ Seriha, it's not much of an option when you can go into Abyssea and go from 30>90 literally hundreds of times quicker than you could in even the best experience points parties right now. I think the playing field should be more level.

@ Erecia, and to the people who keep dwelling on the idea that just because something was done in the olden' FFXI that it must be bad forever more, I say once again there are ways, things that could be implemented to allow people to not be excluded and to allow everyone to have fun. Like I said, for an example, if only Tough-Rated monsters gave these such chains it could alleviate that very problem. That's just one example though. I agree that there should be ways from keeping people feeling less excluded, but at the very least they would STILL have all the options they do as of now. I just think it would be nice if small man parties were brought back for experience points. I met some of the greatest people and had some of the greatest times doing such back in the day, and that was often on jobs that got very rare invites like THF, DRK and PLD.

I feel some times as though people have so much of a tunnel vision to things. They only see the good as good and only see the bad as what it once was. This is a video game, the possibilities are endless. Yes, problems existed with MANY parts of the game back in the day, but as we see now those problems have fixes to them and does not mean such content should be ignored and overlooked.
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#7 Jun 03 2011 at 8:27 AM Rating: Good
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People who actually care are going to do it the "hard" way - and not key *****. Many FFXI veterans who are returning on new characters are opting to solo their way up since it's so fast now, and even I've made the decision to not key-leech certain jobs like PUP and MNK where I'll be deprived of those critical guard skillups. A person who re-started just a few weeks has solo'd himself all the way through 50 SAM already!

I like soloing now. I can log in, pop a ring, do a page, and knock out a level without 1. having to seek a party or 2. deal with other people.
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#8 Jun 03 2011 at 8:41 AM Rating: Good
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@ Seriha, it's not much of an option when you can go into Abyssea and go from 30>90 literally hundreds of times quicker than you could in even the best experience points parties right now. I think the playing field should be more level.


While I'm in favor of buffing outer-world options over the inane "raise the cap to 70+" movement, normal parties are still an option, and it's not really Abyssea that's contributing to their rarity. Rather, conveniently having 6+ people your range of the right jobs for VT grind is not common anymore. Others leveling quickly in Abyssea may be contributing to this, but you also have others taking the initiative to solo, possibly have a secondary account for healing, and just the player base in general being more top-heavy. We're not in 2005 anymore and fresh blood isn't as plentiful.
#9 Jun 04 2011 at 11:55 AM Rating: Default
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Minimum abyssea level 65?
#10 Jun 04 2011 at 12:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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As someone who just restarted I did a lot of parties from 1-60 - after that it got sucky but I think GoV is helping with that a lot already.

Honestly there is nothing stopping people from forming parties already - and GoV has some really nice exp rates, and there is a real benefit to partying while doing it because the faster your kills are, the faster you get pages, the faster your exp adds up.

I would, however, REALLY like to see campaign fixed. It IS broken right now. It would be great if they overhauled it and tuned it to be the one of the best ways to get exp/skill ups for people from 55-75 since both of those things get hard to get in those levels. I guess I just feel sad cause the event is so broken right now and I would really like to do it but the exp is terribad, you can't get skill ups and it was never really meant to be soloed/duoed.
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#11 Jun 14 2011 at 5:22 AM Rating: Decent
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I noticed while ******** around in Crawler's Nest that an entire alliance was taking on bees and crawlers to burn Gov pages, I thought it was a good idea.
#12 Jun 14 2011 at 11:08 AM Rating: Good
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Bring back parties. . .

Are there any tanks LFP?

Nope.

Wait theres a Ninja

He says {Meat} {Shield} {No Thanks}

Oh hey a Pld just popped up

The Rdm just left. So we have no refresh

2 hours later.

Hey a Rdm just showed up.

The Pld just went to bed.

Not to mention that most camps in the old world only support 3-4 levels. eg Qufim 20-24, 1st jungle 24-27, 2nd jungle 28-30 etc.

Until you get to the levels where refresh is available, 41 refresh, 55 ballad 2. Its lack of curing power/refresh that holds parties back. And you can try Colbri parties, but until 74 and DD's getting Utsemi:Ni from /nin its hard to do. And heaven help you if you just pick up some /random person.
#13EndlessJourney, Posted: Jun 14 2011 at 5:16 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) It never ceases to amaze me at just how closed minded people are. Why is it all anyone can do is see the bad in previous things? Did you all really hate the game that much back in the day? Did you not enjoy teaming up with five other adventurers and getting to know them? Going to various camps and leveling up? Of course there were problems with the old system. I've said several times now there would need to be things put in place to make sure those problems didn't present themselves once more. But do people hear me? No, they are def to it. What about the fact that you could still solo and burn in Abyssea if you wanted to, it would just be another option for people who DO want to do it? No, people will still not allow it. This closed minded mentality and tunnel vision is what holds back so many things in life and in this game.
#14 Jun 15 2011 at 6:04 AM Rating: Good
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You fail to understand that people gravitate towards the easiest way to do things. People used to gather into parties becasue it was better XP than soloing. PERIOD. Then someone realized that BLM could get better xp solo at certain levels solo than with a party. Then TOA came out and if you were not a piercing jobs ( Drg, War or Sam ) you could not get a party. I ended up leveling my thf and nin solo for the most part 65-75 because of this. I could not get a party, People would not even join my party if they saw I was on thf or nin.

Nowadays if I want to meet /random people, just join a shout group in Port Jueno. Somedays trying to get 4 poeple to get the right jobs just to kill simple Seal mobs can be a migraine inducing experience.

#15 Jun 15 2011 at 6:57 AM Rating: Good
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No, people will still not allow it
Ummm....

Who's stopping anyone ? I still Party, Solo, Duo all the time (when opportunity arises and its appropriate).

I play for fun & more importantly, recognize that others do also !^^

and one mans fun is another mans grind
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#16tarutso, Posted: Jun 25 2011 at 2:49 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) As a returning player I agree with the ends as to what the OP is aiming for but perhaps not the means.
#17 Jun 27 2011 at 4:15 AM Rating: Good
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How exactly is going to reduce the amount of exp you're getting from GoV on an hourly bases a good thing. You want to make it less zergy, fine. But putting a cooldown on it is going to make it go the way of Chocobo racing faster than you can say "spoony bard".

And for that matter, how is restricting Abyssea a good thing? You're a returning player, and yes the game -has- changed. But here's the thing, it's not going to change back and the game is certainly not going to get harder. Get used to how things are not before you opt to restrict something unnessesairy.

Despite what's being said and posted, the only real reason the more vocal forum people are against lower levels getting into abyssea is because they themselves dont want to form a party for it. Or dont get invited unless they do. You'd be hard pressed finding anyone willing to party without someone doing keys and someone who needs a lot of levels taking initiative of starting it.

And let's not forget that there's plenty of jobs that can contribute as early as 50. And for everything else, there's Atma's to compensate.

But hey, if someone can do something you cannot, it's unfair, right?

It's your own **** choice if you want to have a lower level in your alliance or only invite people who are level 90 and have fully completed relics/Empy's. It's more fun to do it with whoever you want to do it as well...
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#18 Jun 27 2011 at 12:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Like it or not, there are things people can do in Abyssea at 30, as well, and I'm not talking about key whoring. The first and obvious plus is people getting their stone timer going. Sooner the better. Next is general questing and fame building, as a lot of the popular ones are just trade-ins or go-to/fetch quests. Not everyone has BLM at 70+, and some like using Warp to exit instead of Mawing out. A level 30 BLM/whatever will have more MP than a WAR/BLM before gear, so that means a little less time resting between trips, or blowing cruor on the MP buff as a pseudo-refill.

In short, get over the 30 cap, people. It's not changing.
#19 Jun 30 2011 at 11:57 PM Rating: Decent
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EndlessJourney wrote:
There are many things in the game right now that need to be addressed, but there is one I think is rather important that I would like to discuss today. Something that is a very easy fix that should have been done already.

Please Bring Back Traditional Experience Points Parties.

As of now, if you are a new adventurer you will likely solo your way up to about 30, possibly getting into a small two or three man group a time or two along the way. Once you reach 30, you can essentially go into Abyssea, stand in one place with no gear on and open little boxes (IF THAT. Some people are invited simply to stand there and do nothing) for as little as 12 or so hours to reach the level cap. This is a major problem.

For those who already leveled up the old fashion way, before Abyssea, it's not such a big deal. But for new adventurers this really takes away both the immersion and personal development they gain from experience points parties and actually interacting instead of just standing around to get to level cap. It also introduces them to many new areas along the way in a much more linear fashion.

People may argue this but honestly, do you feel leveling up in your game should come down to some one simply by standing in one place, doing nothing but opening coffers (IF THAT) to go from level 30 to 90?

Even if this is so, please give people the option to party. You do not even have to penalize or change Abyssea and can make it fun for everyone to do. I absolutely do not think the old fashion rate of Experience Points needs to come back, but partying does!

So what's the solution? It's very simple. Just increase the experience points that non abyssea monsters give while in a party. The bigger the party, the better the gain, all the way up to 6 people like it was originally intended. Leave the alliance experience points parties to Abyssea or higher levels. A six person or less party develops the skills in new adventurers to know how to operate, but it doesn't need to take forever either. Allow for many different job options and combination's as well, so that adventurers are never left out nor feel excluded.

My idea, would be that the experience points on ordinary experience party monsters outside of Abyssea would increase with each kill the higher the experience points chain grew. Previously and Currently, this would cap around 300-500 a kill, so why not simply INCREASE that number AND make experience points chains easier to get across the levels? It encourages people to do their best and focus while rewarding them greatly and making things fun as well.

It's not just new adventurers, but old adventurers like myself really would like some more options aside from simply abyssea. I would like to level up in a party, with fellow adventurers across the many lands of Vana Diel once more, but there's no reason it needs to be slow either.

Make it to where the experience points is comparable to Abyssea, just in a different setting and area, giving people options and letting new adventurers experience how to properly interact and gain the skills they need.

Along with the wonderful Level Sync function, you could breathe new life back into partying and make the game feel much less lonely and take people out of one area for experience points.

Again, the Experience Points Gain rate should be comparable to Abyssea, if not a slight bit less, but very close in the least.

Say you're in a six person party, you're synced to level 52 and battling crabs in Kuftal Tunnel.

Chain 1-10 gives you 300-500 Experience Points Per Kill, chain 10-20 gives you 500-1000 Experience Points Per Kill, chain 20-30 gives you 1000-2000 Experience Points Per Kill and so on and so forth. This is just an example.

Of course, I think the rate in which combat AND magic skills are gained would definitely need to be increased, but as of now they already do. You have people going into Abyssea and standing around from levels 30>90 not gaining the proper skills then trying to catch them up and sadly, it's not really their fault either, for this is what has been imposed on them.

It would make for more diversity in experience points gain, give people more options and REALLY would help out the new adventurers. It would really be a nice change for the veterans as well.

Again, the Experience Points Gain rate would need to be close to that of Abyssea, but at this point when that's all anyone does now all it can do is help the game and breathe new life into the very system that made this game so fun and unique.

So please, implement something like this, for the new adventurers and for veterans alike, to have more diversity, to better hone their skills and for a much better experience than standing in one place opening a bunch of little boxes for hours on end.

Thank you.

Edited, Jun 3rd 2011 1:54am by EndlessJourney


Despite what the masses say against the few, I am in agreement. This is not the same game.

It's like SE put a Fast Forward button on "growing up" in Vana'diel, and made it meaningless to savor everything the game has to offer, and how the game was made to be a team effort. People were GLAD to FINALLY get their gear/weapon/items/gil etc. Seriously, now it's having to spend all your time endlessly in an "end game" environment grinding away for that seal or NM boss kill, or whatever. WHY oh WHY can't this happen outside of abyssea.. why did this have to be it's own place that leaves the Vana'diel I once knew more of a wasteland??
#20 Jul 01 2011 at 6:57 AM Rating: Good
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No thank you.

Leave it as it is. Soloing/Duoing is now possible. And parties can still be formed if you so desire.
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#21 Jul 01 2011 at 10:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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Man, we already DID that growing up stuff. We did it to death. The mystique is gone, man, and we can't have it back. It died long before abyssea came out. That's why there were summoner burns; that's why there were job leveling services; that's why there was power leveling almost from day one. To speed that crap up.

You want to savor? Go savor. All the zones are still there. Have fun camping long-repop NMs with low drop rates for gear that you don't want.
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#22EndlessJourney, Posted: Jul 02 2011 at 3:27 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I play a Massive Multiplayer Online Roll Playing Game to play with other people, not solo. Once again it's just this mentality now days that everyone is getting everything spoon fed to them so if you say anything against it you get burned at the stakes. Soloing and Duoing was always possible, but now it has taken a reverse. People use to not solo/duo because it was not worth it, now partying isn't worth it. To be honest I'd like there to be advantages to doing both. For some reason, people in life seem to only want things they way THEY see fit for THEM and even if it doesn't harm them they don't want what others may. It's a very selfish and closed minded attitude. For the record, I'd like soloing/duoing/partying in 6 man groups to all be possible, streamlined and offer it's own advantage to encourage people to do it.
#23BlynkTheSneak, Posted: Jul 02 2011 at 3:59 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Most of those things you suggested above, like powerleveling or summoner burns, were the result of people wanting faster XP. I don't think the OP is suggesting slower XP, he just wants more routes to obtain it.
#24Seedling, Posted: Jul 05 2011 at 4:30 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) The only way to get people back partying is to limit xp gain based on level, while in Abyssea. The same penalty that applies to Dom Ops should be applied to the max xp cap and blue chest xp, so -2% xp per level before 75. (A level 30 with capped xp gain would earn only 10% of 600 = 60 xp per kill, or 100 xp for a 1000 xp chest.)
#25 Jul 05 2011 at 12:19 PM Rating: Good
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Making party-based XP outside Abyssea comparable to what we get from Abyssea doesn't sound like a bad thing. It doesn't seem to me he wants anything taken away from Abyssea, so I don't see an issue there. I like having more options available. I don't necessarily agree with all the reasoning behind it, but I can get behind the idea.
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#26 Jul 05 2011 at 2:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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When people start talking about changing the level cap or nerfing EXP gains, that's pretty much the definition of taking away on some level. Either way, old-school leveling wasn't some magical, mystical prospect, let alone one rife with exploration. You got your invite, a camp was picked, and you got there ASAP with little tolerance for detours or blunders (Like Guivre eating you in Kuftal). You maybe had 2-3 ideal camps per range, with most not knowing the obscure spots or even being willing to travel to them. Aside from Dweaps and KRT, partying pretty much meant standing there killing X number of mobs until either you outleveled them or people got bored.

Even when it came to colibri parties, leveling in the old days was a miserable, needlessly long process where people who died consistently like sac pullers and tanks were often left hanging because they weren't ideal killers. Even sucking down RR2s from consumables, those deaths would add up. Nowadays? It's rare to see people flipping out over dying when it comes to the EXP loss. It's a good thing, because focus can remain on things that actually matter, and not the nagging worry that for 4 hours of Dynamis, you'd have to spend another 8+ LFG/Partying to get back to where you were.

And while it's fine to criticize Abyssea, do it for the right reasons like congestion issues or job discrimination with the proc system, not frickin' EXP. People didn't "know" their jobs beforehand, and even if Abyssea wasn't an option, it'd be back to Astral Burns or colibri syncs until they could. Same net effect of **** for skills if they weren't using a job they could've skilled it on beforehand.
#27GatosFritos, Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 5:56 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Hi there, returning player here. I first played when FFXI released for the XBOX 360 and played casually for a few months, getting multiple jobs to 30-60. I didn't care much for getting to level cap, I just wanted to try as many jobs as I could.
#28 Jul 13 2011 at 7:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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They may have been fond memories, but they were only memories and it's not SE's fault you can't recapture them. It's just like seeing a great movie the second time - it will never have the shock and awe factor that it did the first. Your good memories of the past were due far less to the nature of the game and far more to the people you enjoyed discovering it with. That is something that no amount of game updates can create, nor any amount of nostalgia return.

The general feel was that the game was dead and buried before Abyssea came out. The game was topheavy with 75s and all low to mid level content died years ago. Gear had become either sideways progression or frustratingly impossible to upgrade. Salvage 35s and mythic weapons, oh boy.

Abyssea may have murdered exp parties in cold blood, but it DID keep the game afloat. I have a very strong suspicion that, had we not gotten it, and had FFXIV not turned out to be awful, then it would be the entire game that's a ghost town, not just the dunes.
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#29 Jul 13 2011 at 7:40 AM Rating: Good
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#30GatosFritos, Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 10:45 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I'm fully aware of all the problems that experience points parties brought to the game. Don't confuse what I'm really saying (that the good outweighed the bad for me) with what I'm not saying (that I'm viewing exp parties with rose tinted goggles).
#31GatosFritos, Posted: Jul 13 2011 at 10:51 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Uh, did you read what I said? Yes, my good memories of the past had to do with the people I enjoyed the game with, but the game FORCED that kind of cooperation and camaraderie to begin with. I've never had that kind of experience in World of Warcraft because the game's levelling experience is pretty much what FFXI is attempting to do right now, except more fleshed out because it's what WoW was designed for from the beginning - a game you could feel a sense of accomplishment in a matter of an hour or so. FFXI was built around the more time consuming process of finding a group of people and learning how to cooperate with them.
#32 Jul 13 2011 at 11:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Sigh. Of course it's only a temporary fix. You can only fix up an old machine so many times before it gets so many problems that it's simply good common sense to start completely from scratch. I don't think there's any doubt that we're considerably beyond FFXI's natural death date anymore. So maybe it's the undead zombie of a game, but at least it's one that some of us enjoy still playing. SE has been so hit and miss in the past that it's nothing short of a bloody miracle that I want to play this thing at all anymore.

The game you liked is dead to you. It died before Abyssea and it won't come back. The problems won't be fixed. The interface was upgraded this weekend - new linkpearl and mentor graphics! YEAH! I think that's about as much as we can expect for PS2 technology. And there will be less and less public interest in an MMO this old with such a hugely topheavy playerbase and it has nothing to do with how fast it takes to get Abyssea exp.

You throw around words like "community" and "teamwork," but I remember long fights with poor drop rates that made me quit this game in disgust a half dozen times. It's fun to fight the big baddy dragon with your 40-man multi-alliance group. The first few times. After the 10th, when only one or two people walked away with drops, it's just a grind, and usually one that only benefited the top tier of the linkshell.
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#33rdmcandie, Posted: Jul 14 2011 at 12:13 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) curious observation from someone who doesn't miss the old ****, but how is that everyone who says they do is default/subdefault.
#34 Jul 14 2011 at 1:35 PM Rating: Decent
22 posts
rdmcandie wrote:
curious observation from someone who doesn't miss the old sh*t, but how is that everyone who says they do is default/subdefault.



Yeah you're right, new users shouldn't be able to have opinions.
#35 Jul 15 2011 at 2:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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'Remembering the old days'....I just did that. It was good up until the point I realised that my nostalgia was heavily influenced by wearing rose-tinted specs.

Sure I have some good memories, my first 75 (PLD) took a year and I jumped around the room like I'd won the lottery for a couple of mins when it happened. From that point on it was just grinding out the exp in neverending parties. My 2nd 75 (WAR) took 2 weeks and after I'd managed to get that to 75 I was fed up of partying so much that I didn't level another 75 for quite a while afterwards.

I for one don't really want to go back to the old ways of levelling in parties anyway. They were a royal pain in the *** to construct, especially if like me you lived on GMT timezone and there's often not as many people to ask in the first place. I hated doing a /sea all invite 20-75 (***** the Dunes, I swore I'd never go back) for level sync and seeing 8 people total on jobs which you couldn't make a workable party with if you tried. That and there's only so many times I can see "{English}{Party}{No thanks}" in /seacom before I start to realise that building a PT just wasn't going to happen till much later in the day when the NA's logged on.

I far prefer being able to level quickly in Abyssea so I can go and do a ton of other things in my now expansive freetime.

I joined a Level Sync party for Colibri in W.Woodlands recently and realised just how boring and slow the old parties were. Mind numbingly boring. Grinding a job to level cap was about the most boring experience I can think of. I'm glad SE 'dumbed down' levelling because I was fed up of wasting hours trying to put parties together only to finally get to 6/6 and 2 members leave because they'd been waiting 2-3 hours and had to leave, then everyone says they aren't waiting another hour to get replacements and also leave.

I'm done with old fashioned parties. I just don't have the will to put them together anymore no matter how much extra exp you add to each kill.

Edited, Jul 15th 2011 8:09am by Gra
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#36 Jul 15 2011 at 5:09 AM Rating: Decent
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610 posts
Some friends and I had a conversation about the game's past a while ago and I think the conversation ended with "man, this game used to be terrible".
#37 Jul 15 2011 at 3:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm glad about Abyssea because the rest of Vana'Diel is all mine now.
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#38GailC, Posted: Aug 04 2011 at 4:16 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) The problem I have with the current state of the game isn't that it's possible to blow through levels if you want to (the game is old enough that it would be almost impossible for a new player coming into the game to get up to speed otherwise, and I've had friends quit after trying the game and realizing it would take months of dedicated playing to make any progress).
#39 Aug 04 2011 at 5:54 AM Rating: Good
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12,818 posts
EndlessJourney wrote:
Wonder Gem Pawkeshup wrote:
No thank you.

Leave it as it is. Soloing/Duoing is now possible. And parties can still be formed if you so desire.



I play a Massive Multiplayer Online Roll Playing Game to play with other people, not solo.

U NO RED GUD.

I said:
Wonder Gem Pawkeshup wrote:
No thank you.

Leave it as it is. Soloing/Duoing is now possible. And parties can still be formed if you so desire.

With the EXP boosts, parties will burn through camps faster, and I see parties and alliances doing GoV constantly. What I DON'T want is return to the days of sitting in Jeuno with my flag up or having to try to find a healer or a tank for my EXP party. The idea of a party was horrible. This game is not designed well for that. You can limp along without a tank, true. You can make due with odd jobs, true. But very few people WANT to do that.

EndlessJourney wrote:
Once again it's just this mentality now days that everyone is getting everything spoon fed to them so if you say anything against it you get burned at the stakes. Soloing and Duoing was always possible, but now it has taken a reverse. People use to not solo/duo because it was not worth it, now partying isn't worth it.
How is it not worth it? They increased the EXP, plus if you go into a dungeon, like Garliage Citadel, you can do pages while EXPing. Partying goes insanely fast now. But, read my above comments:

PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO SIT WAITING FOR 5 OTHER LIKE MINDED PEOPLE OF THE RIGHT JOBS TO PLAY THE GAME!

You're right, duoing was possible. And extremely slow past level 50. Trust me, my wife and I duo'd all the time. It was insanely slow going, and before the merge, parties were dead on Ramuh simply because people had reached the cap (75 at the time) and no one wanted to level sync just to tank/heal a party with no gain for them.

I don't want to be spoonfed, I want to PLAY. I want to LEVEL. I want to ENJOY this GAME, not go through an ordeal simply to PLAY this GAME.

You know what, ***** the rest of your points. You're stuck in the past, feeding yourself tasty nostalgia cake and forgetting the hellhole this GAME was. I remember when trying to solo past 10 was nearly impossible. I don't miss those days in the slightest.

GatosFritos wrote:
FFXI isn't the same. I had a huge sense of nostalgia coming back, but when I heard that the entire leveling up experience was gutted and that I would probably be the only person looking for a dunes party, I almost shed a tear. The only thing stopping me was that it is a video game.
You're KIDDING me. You ENJOYED sitting on your *** at a zone line waiting for a group? HAY I GOT A GREAT GAME FOR YOU ITS CALLED WATCH PAINT DRY!

GatosFritos wrote:
I think most would agree with me that what made FFXI great was the sense of teamwork and community that went along with progression. It appears to me that SE tried to fix very real problem but did not forsee the consequences.
There is still teamwork. You see, teamwork is still needed for:

- BCNM, KSNMs, KCNMs and HKCNMs
- Missions
- Quests
- Abyssea NMs
- Syngery
- Gods
- Dynamis
- Garrison
- Voidwatch
- VNMs

That's not ENOUGH for you? Who the **** cares about being forced to get 5 other people of the correct jobs together before you can play? Now you can grab a friend or two, or solo, or party. There are plenty of options now, and people seem to have forgotten that ALL EXP was boosted meaning that if you did form a party, you can go through that camp MUCH faster...

GatosFritos wrote:
Looking back, I'll admit that I hated the long wait times for parties, and the complete imbalance between DD classes that made some wait longer for invites than others.
Those are the last accurate things you said.

GatosFritos wrote:
So what does SE do? Add more DD/support classes with every expansion instead of tanks and dedicated healers, make soloing faster exp than a party, and allow people to cheese the system by leeching exp in Abyssea.
You joined at XBox launch, meaning that the only expansion you were here for was technically WotG. So what jobs did they add? A dedicated healer, and a hybrid healer/tank/dd in DNC. So point one = incorrect.

Soloing is faster than partying? ********* ALL exp got a bonus, so parties are now ridiculously faster than soloing. People just don't want to wait for a perfect party. Point two = incorrect

Leeching in Abyssea being abused? Well, first it's only really abusable by people with their level caps done, meaning long term players that have one or more 90's. I consider that a reward for having been there and done that. PLUS if you leech, you get what you deserve: Months of skilling up. It's no faster, you just wind up getting screwed on the back end. Point three = incorrect

GatosFritos wrote:
Way to kill the experience.
Because no one ever quit due to standing around and waiting. You know what, you and Endless should make your own game, and you guys can play it by yourselves. Don't cry when you quit.
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#40 Aug 17 2011 at 10:02 AM Rating: Default
4 posts
I personally miss groups. On Lev, we have hardly anyone even on the server to do that. I miss seeing how long the group could keep together. If the rdm left and no more refresh, then by golly that's when I would solo. It's a luck of the draw. I also miss having friends that I could tell and see if they wanted to knock out a few pages and bs while doing it. Now (at least on my server) there is not to many people who want to shoot the sh*t. I can't even find a ls. Can you guys tell me what server you are on and on average how many players are on at any given time? I think I might change servers as I miss playing so much. All the usual stomping grounds are a barren wasteland now. :(
#41 Aug 17 2011 at 6:00 PM Rating: Decent
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610 posts
Most jobs seems to force you to pick one of damage, healing and tanking. I've always felt that heading out solo and fight monsters always makes me wish I had someone to fill the other two slots if I picked damage since most monsters like to throw blind, paralyze and slow at you most of the time. So you really want a group to level up with in this game so you can combine your powers and fight tougher foes. That's how it used to be at least.

The problem I have with leveling up is that it bores me and there exist other options to work around it (Abyssea comes to mind here). I don't feel any level progression because of level sync keeps me at a certain level so I could fight crabs in Qufim forever if I wanted to without getting the feeling of becoming stronger. I feel that in every update they remove one part of the gameplay while leveling up. The reason why I mention this is that first they removed the necessity of skillchains, then removed the necessity of having a tank, then removed the necessity of enfeeblings and so on. Skillchains were never balanced in parties to favor all jobs as you would end up fighting crabs, flies, crawlers and spiders most of the time and distortion were favored for the most part. Needing a tank would require you to look after either PLD or NIN. Because of they keep making leveling up simpler with each update I feel that I rather want to leech in a fell cleave party rather than killing the same bat 5 times and return to a book and receive another order to kill 5 bats. Not to mention that 90% of my abilities covers dust while fighting easy preys.

I don't think the answer is to put level 90 mobs in starter zones.
#42 Aug 18 2011 at 8:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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2,010 posts
EndlessJourney wrote:


I play a Massive Multiplayer Online Roll Playing Game to play with other people, not solo. Once again it's just this mentality now days that everyone is getting everything spoon fed to them so if you say anything against it you get burned at the stakes.


Well, I play to have fun, not to fill up your party. Make some friends and then level sync in the old world if you want to. I'm sure that there are other like-minded folks that believe the mmo experience should be PT or GTFO.

The rest of us moved on from the 6 man party to the 18 man alliance for our leveling needs. Gosh, if you play an mmo to play with other people, isn't 18 > 6? That's three times as many people for you to group with at any given level range.

No, this game needed this overhaul especially with the eventual cap of 99. Otherwise, it would be impossible for anyone new to get into the game. As it stands now, we are seeing folks returning and not dreading the "grind" to get to the point where they can play with their friends and newly-found ls mates. Every job is welcome into the alliance because they just need to get butts in the seats. No more parties that don't happen if a RDM or a BRD isn't available (meripo). No more parties that don't happen if the ideal camp is taken. No more scratching our asses while everyone begs their LS for someone to come tank. No more hoping that someone is bored enough to PL.

Now we get to throw any random combination of 18 people together and go do pages. If anything, the game has gotten MORE social now that all jobs are pretty much welcome.

You are looking at it from the wrong point of view.
#43 Aug 21 2011 at 3:14 PM Rating: Decent
2 posts
This is my first post, so excuse my noobness.
There's lots of good posts here. I'm pretty new to the game, but
I always remember some of my best times on this game where in parties.
Not everybody agrees, but I've only ever played where level sync was part of y
The game. Anyways if any of you guys are on Cerberus and want to duo/party send me a
/tell Kitha.
#44 Aug 21 2011 at 6:53 PM Rating: Default
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simply all he really asked was to make it so you could gain almost the same exp rate for doing something versus doing nothing (key whoring or standing in abyssea). I don't see why so many are against this. If you do not personally want to deal with the hassle you could just take the abyssea route, for people who actually want a gaming experience they can actually earn their exp. What is the problem?
#45 Aug 22 2011 at 9:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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haife wrote:
simply all he really asked was to make it so you could gain almost the same exp rate for doing something versus doing nothing (key whoring or standing in abyssea). I don't see why so many are against this. If you do not personally want to deal with the hassle you could just take the abyssea route, for people who actually want a gaming experience they can actually earn their exp. What is the problem?

Because giving "almost the same" exp rate isn't going to revive party play. It's going to require giving a substantially better exp rate to motivate players to endure the hassles of an old school, traditional SC+MB party.

Players didn't sit around for hours hoping for the right jobs to form a decent party because the exp itself was so much fun. They did it because it was the best way to get exp at the time.
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#46 Aug 22 2011 at 12:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Because giving "almost the same" exp rate isn't going to revive party play. It's going to require giving a substantially better exp rate to motivate players to endure the hassles of an old school, traditional SC+MB party.


But even that won't discourage people from key leeching in abyssea. The only way to stop the key leeching is capping the zones, or dragging the xp model back into the stone ages where if you had a high level in the party, you got zip. Neither option is very appealing. It won't matter if you make 6 man parties give 1k xp per mob with a 10k bonus at each level 5 chain - key leeching is the path of least resistance.

Sometimes we have to say goodbye to the past to make way for the future.

The 6 man party had its day, but it's over now. Why would anyone want to go back to a time where you were skipped over unless you were a SAM, a BRD, or a RDM? Why would anyone want to go back to a time where you couldn't get your beastmaster buddy in because his job was "lol"? Why would anyone want to go back to that horribly unfriendly environment?

If people still want to 6 man it, there is nothing stopping them. If it's truly about love of the 6 man party, grab FoV pages and go with some friends\like-minded individuals.

Don't lobby to force it on the rest of us who are happy to see the days of job discrimination long gone.
#47LadyVaJedi, Posted: Sep 14 2011 at 7:51 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I agree bring back the ole fashion exp parties plz. Forcing people to do alliance parties isn't right either. That is what is happing right now.
#48 Sep 14 2011 at 9:27 AM Rating: Good
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Nobody is being forced into doing anything. You can try to form a usual 6-man party just as in the old days. Just, good luck finding five other willing participants around your level or willing to synch down to it, and good luck finding enough relevant gear for that level range. The AH is bare at mid levels these days and what few things are up move slowly. I ended up NPCing almost every piece of gear I bought for DRG before 70 simply because it wasn't selling, and at 10k or less wasn't worth the fight with the AH.

People are like water; they take the path of least resistance. Even if traditional exp parties give huge, huge exp - maybe even DOUBLE the exp of GoV (roughly 5k every 5-10 min or so) - killing weenie EP mobs for 2.5k a page is an attractive, easy, risk free way of exping that I don't think many would want to give up.
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#49 Sep 14 2011 at 11:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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LadyVaJedi wrote:
I agree bring back the ole fashion exp parties plz. Forcing people to do alliance parties isn't right either. That is what is happing right now.

And back during the old fashioned exp parties, you were "forced" to level one of the select few jobs people wanted, or you would sit around Jeuno for hours and hours with no invite. The current Abyssea environment is a lot more friendly to a wider variety of jobs, at least where exp is concerned.
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#50 Sep 15 2011 at 9:42 AM Rating: Default
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The Alliance parties can also make your skills out of wack and people are still going to need to skill up as well outside of the alliance parties.
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#51 Sep 15 2011 at 10:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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LadyVaJedi wrote:
The Alliance parties can also make your skills out of wack and people are still going to need to skill up as well outside of the alliance parties.


And we have a solution for that as well: Allow skillups in campaign. It's a win\win situation. There's already a thread here about it. People can work on their skills, and those of us who actually enjoyed doing things in the past will be able to do them again when the allies actually start controlling places.

It's a better solution than going back to the 6 man format we had before. I'd rather enjoy the game on my terms, in my time, on my chosen job, than have to level ******* red mage again just to get in a meripo. No thanks.

The one thing that I love about this new method of leveling is the pick up aspect. You can literally log in and if you want to party, it's right there. No more waiting for hours with a flag up, only to log off disappointed. No more /sea all 55-60 pld or rdm. No more staring at spinning moogles and listening to idiots in ls chat argue over which beer is better.

There is even a huge influx of noobs - and I mean like real wet behind the ears no clue what they are doing noobs - not returning veterans. And you know what the difference is this time around?

None of them are leaving because they got frustrated and tired of waiting around for one of your old school parties.
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