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Empyrean Armour Seals Quests - suggestions on fixing them.Follow

#1 Sep 20 2010 at 9:39 PM Rating: Decent
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This is the first time I've started a thread, in the vain hopes that some one at SE will be reading and understand that the community is not happy, in general, with the state of the Empyrean Armour Upgrade Quests.
I've always felt that there's no point about **** about something, unless you have a way to fix it, or at least some viable suggestions. Here's what I've seen through the community.

The problem with the quest is the complete randomness and extreme time sinks.
Even the "Smoke on the Coast" (galkan sausage) quest, which is, from what I can see, the easiest quest to do, still requires vast ammounts of time:

10 min to cook 4 stacks of meat (this was the most I did at one time, I hate wasting resourses and gil) - with about 25% Burnt loss (I was down to 2-3 -1 sausages at the end, but if you're starting, you don't get the feel for it, or can get unlucky, etc, averages out) ~36 sausages per trip.

2 minutes to zone in, talk to the galka, trade him the sausage, run out. (I was down to about 1:25 with macro and Movement +, but I feel 2min is a fair number)

~100-300 sausages to get 8 seals

200-600 minutes to trade, plus ~80 min cooking time.

That's 280-680 minutes in zone, JUST DOING THIS QUEST. And it's recognized as the "easiest" quest!!!
Thats 10 - 22 stones just on one piece of AF3.

Scattered Shells, Scattered Minds Can take up to 20 min to complete. With a max of 300 completions needed for 8 seals (yes, luck plays a factor, but lets play "worst case scenario") - that's 6000 minutes or 200 stones!

There are other quests that are "easy", such as Unidentified Reasearch Object, but that requires MASSIVE ammounts of gil or time inside farming, THEN you have to trade (Current price of Murex cones = 100k Gil, x 300 = 30m Gil, plus 600 min to trade it!)

And lets not even mention the poor BLM's and their "you must be in an XP party, in a new zone, just to get your key item to complete the quest!"

While we love the AF3, SE, this is a pure case of "You've done it wrong".
Fortunatly, it's fixable. And with relative ease, so here are the suggestions I've seen in the community:


1: Keep the drops random, increase the drop rate to 100%
While I hate dropping seals for a job I will never level up, the commuinty wouldn't feel so robbed if they got a reward every time they did the quest. More than that, it would be a much shorter time getting the seals (25% drop rate on their seal, just for sake of ease, means that you would only have to complete 32 quests, not 300). Even for our poor BLM's this is viable.

2: Keep drop rates, put in a small program that sees what job the person has at 80+ and removes other options from the drop rate.
This means that while you're still looking at a 1 in 5ish drop rate on seals, you know that when it drops, it will be for a job you can use. The issue with this fix is that if the person has multipul 80's on the same quest, they can get stuck with 1 group of seals over the other (Again, easy fix while you're in there writing programming, if they have the +1 for that quest already, remove that job from the drops again)

3: Keep the drop rates, but add in a menu that allows player to select which seal they want.
Similar to #2 but allows the player to just choose. Not sure which would be easier in terms of programming...

4: Keep drop rates, but have the program check against active Magian Trials.
Similar to #2, but requires you to have the trial active (only a real pain in the **** when considering AF3 feet - since they seem to be a bit harder to get). Again, this seems one of the most reasonable - if my magian specs know what trials I'm on - why can't the quest giver?

5: Allow Seals to be tradeable/Bazzar-able. Allow players to trade their seals with friends.
So if they happen to know a RDM or two their 18 RDM Leg Seals will go to someone who needs them, instead of hitting the floor. Better still, allow them to be bazzarable. This will probably create a sub-market and allow those with time to waste, a way to make some gil. Seals, in this case, would be treated like Ancient Currency for Relic upgrading.
This is my least favourite option, but still an option no less.

6: Allow Seals to enter into the treasure pool.
This allows a group of friends to do the quests, speeding up the process (up to 6 people, or hell, even 18), while not having seals go to waste, being distributed to those that need.


http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=1284688277171686565&page=1&howmany=50#msg1284765101266223667 - is a post written by Tummie, that I feel, is pretty **** close to how I thought AF3+1 and +2 were going to work. Worth a read.



I wrote this tread, because the previous one, along this line of thought, had degraded into "you can't solo X on RDM now".

Edited, Sep 19th 2010 11:04pm by AshokaPrime to add in new ideas

Edited, Sep 19th 2010 11:04pm by AshokaPrime
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#3 Sep 21 2010 at 12:49 AM Rating: Default
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You're arguing over 30 seconds?

and... 150 is still in the range I gave, and there are people who have done more than 300 and just had really **** luck with drops (I'm talking 300 trades).

And yes, some of us should QQ because we don't want to level RDM. Most of my friends are on during GMT and I'd love to do the occasional quest at night (EST) to get some seals on my own, without wasting 30 stones to get one AF3.


Are they supposed to be efficient? Maybe not as much as killing NM's - are they supposed to be viable? yes. Look at the BLM quests and tell me, honnestly, that with the current drop rate/pattern, they're viable.
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#4 Sep 21 2010 at 12:51 AM Rating: Decent
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AshokaPrime wrote:
You're arguing over 30 seconds?
No. I'm arguing over 30 seconds times 100+ trades.

But yes, 30 seconds is HUGE over 1.5 mins. That's 33% more.

Edited, Sep 21st 2010 2:52am by ThePsychoticOne
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#5 Sep 21 2010 at 8:57 AM Rating: Decent
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The fast way is to kill NMs, but requires a team to back you up.
The slow way is do quests, but they can be done solo.

Let's face it, SE was NICE when they added both ways. Anyone can get the +1 gear regardless of time or playstyle this way.
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#6 Sep 21 2010 at 9:17 AM Rating: Good
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Except it is random, so it is actually possible to do abyssea every day for 5 years without getting anything. Low chance, but it can happen.
#7 Sep 21 2010 at 10:27 AM Rating: Decent
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ThePsychoticOne the Prohpet wrote:
AshokaPrime wrote:
You're arguing over 30 seconds?
No. I'm arguing over 30 seconds times 100+ trades.

But yes, 30 seconds is HUGE over 1.5 mins. That's 33% more.

Edited, Sep 21st 2010 2:52am by ThePsychoticOne


Ok.... fair enough

But lets face it, there are people doing these quests that are uber focused about getting it done and shaving off seconds. I was bored when I did it and tried to see exactly how fast I could get it done, with a personal record of 1:15.

The issue here is the average player. So, 2 min while chatting in LS and other stuff seems fair.

SE said this content was made for small groups (which it can be done with, though, I hate the continual kite method, I love a strait up tank fight, personally) as well as solo (Quests) - but the quest part needs just a bit of tweeking to make it... worth while?
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I once ate the soul of a MNK
It tasted like chocolate.
#8 Sep 21 2010 at 11:51 AM Rating: Default
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Seedling wrote:
The fast way is to kill NMs, but requires a team to back you up.
The slow way is do quests, but they can be done solo.

Let's face it, SE was NICE when they added both ways. Anyone can get the +1 gear regardless of time or playstyle this way.

^ This right here.

You guys are upgrading your AF3 the long way, and complaining that it takes a long time. Do you see the irony here?

If you want to finish AF3 faster, join an LS that does Abyssea. No sausages or cookbooks needed.
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#9 Sep 21 2010 at 1:31 PM Rating: Good
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the problem with that is, smoe people may not have large chunks of time to dedicate to it. Some of my ls mates are only able to dedicate 3 hours or so of time only on the weekends. Otherwise they are on for an hour or so here and there during the week...mostly when there aren't many people aren't available to assist them because they are already commited to events. So... they are left to burn up their stones 30 minutes here and there trying to solo their seals.

The solo option is the option for the casual gamer, yes. However, it penalizes that casual gamer further by costing them more real life time to get their seals. For example, a more dedicated player with free time can join groups and travel the farming route and get time extensions and a few targetted seals in one day/night. Meanwhile, the casual gamer who has to suffer the unreliable randomness of a quest (and perhaps risking deaths in the process) has to spend stones and get no time extensions and maybe get a couple targetted seals over the course of a WEEK. NOT 1 day.
THAT is the problem. Yes, they are nice to offer the option for those that can't do it any other way, but to penalize them further simply because they don't have the time to do it otherwise is adding insult to injury.

Also, when it comes to the weekend and they are able to do an abyssea alliance/party set up...they may be low on stones and the group has to focus heavily on time extensions first, which delays getting to farming NM's--holding the group back. So in the long run, this can not only penalize the individual, but also the group as well.

Raist
#10 Sep 21 2010 at 3:43 PM Rating: Default
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BDHERTZER wrote:
the problem with that is, smoe people may not have large chunks of time to dedicate to it. Some of my ls mates are only able to dedicate 3 hours or so of time only on the weekends. Otherwise they are on for an hour or so here and there during the week...mostly when there aren't many people aren't available to assist them because they are already commited to events. So... they are left to burn up their stones 30 minutes here and there trying to solo their seals.

The solo option is the option for the casual gamer, yes. However, it penalizes that casual gamer further by costing them more real life time to get their seals. For example, a more dedicated player with free time can join groups and travel the farming route and get time extensions and a few targetted seals in one day/night. Meanwhile, the casual gamer who has to suffer the unreliable randomness of a quest (and perhaps risking deaths in the process) has to spend stones and get no time extensions and maybe get a couple targetted seals over the course of a WEEK. NOT 1 day.
THAT is the problem. Yes, they are nice to offer the option for those that can't do it any other way, but to penalize them further simply because they don't have the time to do it otherwise is adding insult to injury.

Also, when it comes to the weekend and they are able to do an abyssea alliance/party set up...they may be low on stones and the group has to focus heavily on time extensions first, which delays getting to farming NM's--holding the group back. So in the long run, this can not only penalize the individual, but also the group as well.

Raist
So, you're saying it takes someone who only plays for an hour at a time, every few days, takes longer to get their af3 than someone who has plenty of irl time to spend on ffxi? That is pretty shocking, and horrible.
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