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#27 Jul 19 2013 at 12:07 PM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Why was the machine shutting down?

That hasn't changed. Still very likely that the cause was the operator pushing the power off button. Both machines have ran for over 48 hours without a single issue and the only change is the operator is no longer running them.

someproteinguy wrote:
How did he expect this to work out? Smiley: confused

Employment + Other "jobs" while doing the job you are getting paid for?

Edited, Jul 19th 2013 2:09pm by TirithRR
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#28 Jul 19 2013 at 1:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hey, if you have one of those CNC controllers laying around that you need someone to help test for a few years, I totally volunteer. Strictly in the interests of science and all. That is some seriously heavy duty CNC machining horsepower you got there. My little home built machine is jelous
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#29 Jul 19 2013 at 4:33 PM Rating: Good
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They are powerful, but pretty basic. Only 3 or 4 axis, single bed. We have a dozen double head, double machine bed, five axis center. The things are monsters. But also a pain in the as to work on, and all in German (or... English written by Germans). Which is harder to understand than the usual Japanese machines.

Edited, Jul 19th 2013 6:33pm by TirithRR
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#30 Jul 19 2013 at 4:37 PM Rating: Good
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Google translate?
#31 Jul 19 2013 at 4:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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Big machines are cool.
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#32 Jul 19 2013 at 4:54 PM Rating: Good
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We have quite a few of these.



That shows both heads on one side, but it can split up and each head do individual jobs on each table (the other table is inactive off to the side in that video).
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#33 Jul 19 2013 at 5:47 PM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
We have quite a few of these.



That shows both heads on one side, but it can split up and each head do individual jobs on each table (the other table is inactive off to the side in that video).


So you make slides for a living?
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#34 Jul 19 2013 at 6:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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TirithRR wrote:
They are powerful, but pretty basic. Only 3 or 4 axis, single bed. We have a dozen double head, double machine bed, five axis center. The things are monsters. But also a pain in the as to work on, and all in German (or... English written by Germans). Which is harder to understand than the usual Japanese machines.


Well see, that's conveniant then, I read german pretty well so yeah, send me one of those? (it was worth a shot!)

An older picture of my machine:
Screenshot
The coolant collection tray exists now, and it's wired and plumbed and everything.

Just 3 Axis, Gecko G540 controller with a USB interface, and provision for a fourth control axis.
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#35 Jul 19 2013 at 6:08 PM Rating: Good
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Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
So you make slides for a living?


That's just the only video I could find of the two head machine. I work in the automotive industry
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#36 Jul 20 2013 at 5:57 AM Rating: Good
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
They are powerful, but pretty basic. Only 3 or 4 axis, single bed. We have a dozen double head, double machine bed, five axis center. The things are monsters. But also a pain in the as to work on, and all in German (or... English written by Germans). Which is harder to understand than the usual Japanese machines.


Well see, that's conveniant then, I read german pretty well so yeah, send me one of those hire me a IT specialist and manual translator? (it was worth a shot!)
FTFY.
#37 Aug 16 2013 at 6:13 PM Rating: Good
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Well, details never came out, but the supervisor in question never came back. And all the young women no longer work there. We aren't sure if they were let go following the whole ordeal or if they decided to quit themselves.
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#38 Aug 20 2013 at 2:01 PM Rating: Decent
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TirithRR wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Why was the machine shutting down?

That hasn't changed. Still very likely that the cause was the operator pushing the power off button.


Hard to tell from the angle in the picture you provided, but it looks like the EPO button isn't ringed? Could be wrong. She could very well have been accidentally hitting it. Although you'd think even someone not qualified to work on the equipment would figure that one out pretty quickly. And as you say, it's not in an obviously easy to accidentally press spot (don't know how the box itself is positioned in the workspace though.

Back in the day there was some model of tester we had (can't remember the vendor), that had the EPO directly on the front of the head (which is itself on an actuator). There was no protective ring around it, and all you had to do was lean over the machine to pick up or place a part in it, and you could easily hit it. It became a bit of a joke for new operators to see how long it took someone to accidentally power the machine off. Point being that even in such a terrible location, people rarely hit it that often once they knew where it was. You leaned in from the side. Still occasionally got a brain fart power off, but when it happened, everyone would laugh at the person, turn the equipment back on and move on.

I haven't seen an unprotected EPO in like 20 years though. Hell, even datacenter EPOs have these now. They didn't for a long time, cause they're usually on a wall somewhere far far away from any equipment you'd be working on. Now the halon dump hold buttons? Not covered. Which is a good thing really.
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#39 Aug 20 2013 at 2:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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They yarded out our halon system and replaced it with a water based system in the datacenter because we might suffocate otherwise. Because electrocution in standing water is better for you apperently,
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#40 Aug 20 2013 at 2:18 PM Rating: Good
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
They yarded out our halon system and replaced it with a water based system in the datacenter because we might suffocate otherwise. Because electrocution in standing water is better for you apperently,
I think I'd rather be electrocuted than suffocate if given the choice, tbh.
#41 Aug 20 2013 at 2:19 PM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
They yarded out our halon system and replaced it with a water based system in the datacenter because we might suffocate otherwise. Because electrocution in standing water is better for you apperently,
I think I'd rather be electrocuted than suffocate if given the choice, tbh.


Search for the video of the man in India being electrocuted after touching a live power line for a train. I'd rather suffocate.
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#42 Aug 20 2013 at 2:39 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Why was the machine shutting down?

That hasn't changed. Still very likely that the cause was the operator pushing the power off button.


Hard to tell from the angle in the picture you provided, but it looks like the EPO button isn't ringed? Could be wrong. She could very well have been accidentally hitting it. Although you'd think even someone not qualified to work on the equipment would figure that one out pretty quickly. And as you say, it's not in an obviously easy to accidentally press spot (don't know how the box itself is positioned in the workspace though.

Back in the day there was some model of tester we had (can't remember the vendor), that had the EPO directly on the front of the head (which is itself on an actuator). There was no protective ring around it, and all you had to do was lean over the machine to pick up or place a part in it, and you could easily hit it. It became a bit of a joke for new operators to see how long it took someone to accidentally power the machine off. Point being that even in such a terrible location, people rarely hit it that often once they knew where it was. You leaned in from the side. Still occasionally got a brain fart power off, but when it happened, everyone would laugh at the person, turn the equipment back on and move on.

I haven't seen an unprotected EPO in like 20 years though. Hell, even datacenter EPOs have these now. They didn't for a long time, cause they're usually on a wall somewhere far far away from any equipment you'd be working on. Now the halon dump hold buttons? Not covered. Which is a good thing really.


It's not the Emergency Stop that was being pressed, but the general "Power Off" button. Both are not guarded to speak of, but are high enough that they are not in the operators general reach for accidental operation. She was only about 5 foot tall, I'm 6 foot myself, and I have to reach up to press the buttons. Accidental operation was highly unlikely. And it has not had a single issue since she has been gone. The only one in the operator's reach is the Feed Hold, but all that does is halt the CNC cycle until cycle start is pressed again.

When it comes to guarding Emergency Stop operators against accidental operation, OSHA regulations and the NFPA are not very clear (the ISO standards are much clearer, and specifically allows for guards within certain parameters, from what I've read). It is very much open to interpretation by the investigator telling you what can and cannot be done. Most people from OSHA have cited us for having guards against accidental operation, even ones from the manufacturer that only stop bumping, but are left open on most sides and the front for easy operation in the event of an emergency. Most people in the industry say it's easier to relocation or remove an emergency stop than it is to argue with an OSHA person about using protection against accidental operation. The last one they complained about I just removed from the machine. It had three others in other locations, and that particular one wasn't used at all. Rather than argue (since we knew we were right, the manufacturers even sell the devices for that specific purpose) I just took it out of the circuit and was done with it.

Edited, Aug 20th 2013 4:46pm by TirithRR
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