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Yes! Take God Off Your Currency!Follow

#1 Mar 13 2013 at 1:04 AM Rating: Decent
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20 plaintiffs are sueing the US treasury for having "In God We Trust" on the US currency. It seems like a no-brainer to me if you want a government that upholds freedom of religion for its citizens, and is serious about separating Church rule from State rule. "God" in a common sense way refers to the Christian God. Why have the national currency represent only one religion, or religion at all, if people of other faiths, agnostics and athiests are supposed to feel embraced by their nation. One's own currency is a pretty fundamental to one's own sense of identity, the same way your childhood home, and nation you grew up in, and the nation you are a citizen of now, is.

Freedom From Religion Foundation wrote:
The complaint, a tour de force of historical research, unequivocally shows that there was a purely religious purpose and intent behind putting God on our coinage. Newdow quotes representatives who voted for the addition as seeking to use the money to proselytize around the world. Rep. Herman P. Eberharter (PA) said: "[T]he American dollar travels all over the world, into every country of the world, and frequently gets behind the Iron Curtain, and if it carries this message in that way I think it would be very good. I think that is one of the most compelling reasons why we should put it on our currency. ... the principles laid down by God and the teachings of our way of life should be kept alive in the hearts and minds of our friends enslaved behind the Iron Curtain."

Plaintiffs are forced to proselytize — by an Act of Congress — for a deity they don't believe in whenever they handle money.

"Our government is prohibited from endorsing one religion over another but also prohibited from endorsing religion over nonreligion. The placement of a monotheistic ideal on our nation's currency violates this stricture and is therefore unconstitutional," said FFRF Co-President Dan Barker.
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#2 Mar 13 2013 at 1:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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I suggest we do the opposite. Let's require "In God We Trust" to be on all debit and credit cards because no one uses cash anymore.
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#3 Mar 13 2013 at 3:45 AM Rating: Good
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Really? I was recently under the impression that all transactions in the USA were handled by cheque!
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#4 Mar 13 2013 at 4:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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Is this really worth fighting for? A piece of paper or metal that you don't even look at before giving to someone else?
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#5 Mar 13 2013 at 5:43 AM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Is this really worth fighting for? A piece of paper or metal that you don't even look at before giving to someone else?

As an atheist, I agree with this sentiment. Does it really matter? People who worry about sh*t like this give atheists in general a bad name in the same way the war on Christmas @#%^s give Christians a bad name.
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#6 Mar 13 2013 at 6:17 AM Rating: Good
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Out of all the nit picks and bitches about separation of Church and State though, I think this is the most legitimate.

Private, religious groups making use of public land? Who cares.
People wanting to pray inside public schools? (not forcing students to) Again, not a big deal.

The Government endorsing a specific deity on its official currency? Comparatively speaking, a big deal.

Personally I don't care if it is there or not. It doesn't bother me nearly enough to even think about raising a stink. But I did notice that at least three of the recent presidential dollar coins omitted the phrase In God We Trust, and I think E Pluribus Unum is a better phrase to have on the currency anyway.
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#7 Mar 13 2013 at 6:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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The Government endorsing a specific deity on its official currency? Comparatively speaking, a big deal.

I disagree. I'd say active use of public land for worship is more egregious than rote script.

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But I did notice that at least three of the recent presidential dollar coins omitted the phrase In God We Trust

It's engraved along the edge, on the "side" of the coin where you find the milling on quarters or dimes.

I also disagree with the idea that it was added for religious grounds. More accurately, it was added on ideological grounds in an "Us" vs "Them" distinction during the Cold War. We were trying to show how non-Communist we were, not spread the Gospel of Christ or something. Had they said they all loved Coke, we'd have slapped a Pepsi can on the dollar. If they put Transformers on their coins, we'd have added Go-Bots. And been that much the poorer for it. Since the Soviets were seen as "godless", we had to play up the God card.

You saw (and see) much the same thing in Poland and its embrace of Roman Catholicism which it holds as a point of identity as a "Western" nation versus its Eastern Orthodox neighbors. It's less about the doctrine as it is about the separation.

Edited, Mar 13th 2013 8:02am by Jophiel
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#8 Mar 13 2013 at 7:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Is this really worth fighting for?
As worthy as most of the other topics that find their way here.
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#9 Mar 13 2013 at 7:54 AM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
Out of all the nit picks and bitches about separation of Church and State though, I think this is the most legitimate.

...and I think E Pluribus Unum is a better phrase to have on the currency anyway.

I would go for Caveat Emptor, myself Smiley: sly
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#10 Mar 13 2013 at 9:10 AM Rating: Default
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Having "In God We Trust" on currency isn't forcing religion on people. It has been there for over 100 years and doesn't hurt anybody.
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#11 Mar 13 2013 at 9:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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#12 Mar 13 2013 at 11:53 AM Rating: Good
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fronglo wrote:
Having "In God We Trust" on currency isn't forcing religion on people. It has been there for over 100 years and doesn't hurt anybody.


I think the problem is that the crazies use it as an argument that the US should be more religious.
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#13 Mar 13 2013 at 4:49 PM Rating: Good
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This would be nice, but it doesn't seem like such a big deal to me. At least not compared to some of the other things, like "under god" in the pledge they make school kids say every day, or making people swear on a bible in court. I'll celebrate if it happens, but if not, eh, whatever.

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and is serious about separating Church rule from State rule.
Hah!
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#14 Mar 13 2013 at 4:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'd argue it's actually sacrilegious to Christianity itself. The one time Jesus got really and truly pissed off was when he found loan sharks in the temple.

Having "In God We Trust" on our money is like saying "@#%^ you, Jesus!" every time you make change.
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#15 Mar 13 2013 at 5:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
"under god" in the pledge they make school kids say every day


Friend of mine caught hell cause she wouldn't say the pledge. She stood, but wouldn't say it. She doesn't believe in the Christian god. The school couldn't force her to say it cause of her "religious" belief. Are school now really forcing kids to say it or were you unaware that a kid only needs to stand, showing some respect to the country, and not have to repete the pledge?
#16 Mar 13 2013 at 5:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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We should add more wombat pictures to our money. Hey, it works for Australia!
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#17 Mar 13 2013 at 5:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Zymunn wrote:
Quote:
"under god" in the pledge they make school kids say every day


Friend of mine caught hell cause she wouldn't say the pledge. She stood, but wouldn't say it. She doesn't believe in the Christian god. The school couldn't force her to say it cause of her "religious" belief. Are school now really forcing kids to say it or were you unaware that a kid only needs to stand, showing some respect to the country, and not have to repete the pledge?
They are indeed not forced to do so, but right from an early age they are led to believe they must do so. And just because they can't make someone say it doesn't mean they can't try to bully them into it.
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#18 Mar 13 2013 at 5:41 PM Rating: Good
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Zymunn wrote:
Quote:
"under god" in the pledge they make school kids say every day


Friend of mine caught hell cause she wouldn't say the pledge. She stood, but wouldn't say it. She doesn't believe in the Christian god. The school couldn't force her to say it cause of her "religious" belief. Are school now really forcing kids to say it or were you unaware that a kid only needs to stand, showing some respect to the country, and not have to repete the pledge?


I went to elementary school in South Carolina and we were forced to say the Pledge every morning, and were forced to get into a line and pray before leaving the classroom for Lunch. The teacher would not allow the class to leave the room if anyone wasn't bowing their head in prayer.
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#19 Mar 13 2013 at 8:52 PM Rating: Good
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While we're at it, lets get rid of all the rest of the weird symbology our currency holds.
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#20 Mar 14 2013 at 4:45 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I also disagree with the idea that it was added for religious grounds. More accurately, it was added on ideological grounds in an "Us" vs "Them" distinction during the Cold War. We were trying to show how non-Communist we were, not spread the Gospel of Christ or something. Had they said they all loved Coke, we'd have slapped a Pepsi can on the dollar. If they put Transformers on their coins, we'd have added Go-Bots. And been that much the poorer for it. Since the Soviets were seen as "godless", we had to play up the God card.


So we should modify it, adding a footnote?

Quote:

In God We Trust*

*Not intended to be a factual statement
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#21 Mar 14 2013 at 5:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kuwoobie wrote:
While we're at it, lets get rid of all the rest of the weird symbology our currency holds.

Weird symbolism. Symbolism.

Symbology is the study of symbols, like biology is the study of biota/living things. A dollar note has symbols on it, not a text about what those symbols mean. If you were studying the meanings of the symbols on the dollar note, THAT would be symbology.
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#22 Mar 14 2013 at 5:55 AM Rating: Good
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Aripyanfar wrote:
Kuwoobie wrote:
While we're at it, lets get rid of all the rest of the weird symbology our currency holds.

Weird symbolism. Symbolism.

Symbology is the study of symbols, like biology is the study of biota/living things. A dollar note has symbols on it, not a text about what those symbols mean. If you were studying the meanings of the symbols on the dollar note, THAT would be symbology.

Relevant

Edited, Mar 14th 2013 7:56am by Peimei
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#23 Mar 14 2013 at 7:10 AM Rating: Good
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If money is being newly designed take it off or leave it on.

It's a trivial issue that I'd rather not see people arguing about or wasting resources on. I don't think the word 'God' in this context strictly refers to Christianity - nor do I think it was intended to by the currency designers. All religions worship a deity.

For money, I like the Stones quote - "You can't always get what you want".
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#24 Mar 14 2013 at 7:22 AM Rating: Good
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There is a difference between "a god" and "God".

(and I'm pretty sure not all religions worship a deity)
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#25 Mar 14 2013 at 7:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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TirithRR wrote:
(and I'm pretty sure not all religions worship a deity)

All the ones worth mentioning do.
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#26 Mar 14 2013 at 7:46 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
(and I'm pretty sure not all religions worship a deity)

All the ones worth mentioning do.

Properly understood, Buddhism does not worship a deity. If I remember correctly, Taoism, or "The Way", does not worship a deity either. Even though the mystic Taoists get a bit heavy on the superstition.

Edited, Mar 14th 2013 9:48am by Aripyanfar
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#27 Mar 14 2013 at 7:53 AM Rating: Good
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Ok, I propose changing 'In God we trust" to "OMG".
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Aripyanfar wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
(and I'm pretty sure not all religions worship a deity)
All the ones worth mentioning do.
Properly understood, Buddhism does not worship a deity. If I remember correctly, Taoism, or "The Way", does not worship a deity either.

You trying to make my point for me?
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#29 Mar 14 2013 at 3:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Even if every religion worshiped a deity, not everyone is religious.

I would love to see this come off of our currency. But if they don't, I'm not going to lose sleep over it.
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#30 Mar 14 2013 at 5:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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Belkira wrote:
Even if every religion worshiped a deity, not everyone is religious.

Everyone worth mentioning is.
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#31 Mar 14 2013 at 5:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Belkira wrote:
Even if every religion worshiped a deity, not everyone is religious.

Everyone worth mentioning is.


Smiley: bah
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#32 Mar 14 2013 at 6:58 PM Rating: Decent
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TirithRR wrote:
Out of all the nit picks and bitches about separation of Church and State though, I think this is the most legitimate.


I disagree. It's "an" issue to nit over, but not the most "legitimate". At least not if by "legitimate" we mean the degree to which it's actually in violation of the 1st amendment, upon which the principle of Separation of Church and State rests. The 1st amendment specifically forbids congress from passing laws respecting an establishment of religion. Obviously, this has been extended to "all levels of government", but still applies to the passage of laws (so legislature).

The change of the US motto from "E Pluribus Unum" to "In God We Trust" can clearly be argued to be a violation of that amendment, but the placing of those words on our coins, ironically, is not. Those words were placed on US coins long before Congress changed the motto (motto changed in 1956, but "In God We Trust" has been on US currency since 1864. The reason the words on our coins is not a violation of the 1st amendment is because the words and symbols on the coins are at the discretion of the Secretary of Treasury. While Congress passed a law *allowing* the Secretary to do so (basically giving up Congressional control over what coins could say), currently it's up to that Secretary, and thus it arguably not in violation of the 1st amendment.

Are we talking about loopholes here? Sure. But that's what makes this not be the most legitimate of nits to pick on this issue. All the other side has to say is "there's no law requiring those words be on our coins", and the case is more or less closed.

Rachel9 wrote:
This would be nice, but it doesn't seem like such a big deal to me. At least not compared to some of the other things, like "under god" in the pledge they make school kids say every day...


This is a vastly more legitimate one. The public school system is established and funded by act of congress. The requirement for the pledge to be spoken was created by act of congress. And the words that are to be included in the pledge to be spoken are also established by act of congress. It's about as clear cut a violation of the principle at hand as you could get. I'd start there if you want to really make headway on this issue. Of course, all that has to be done to fix this is for congress to pass a law leaving the pledge decision up to the individual schools or districts, and walk away from it. Then you have to go fight each school and convince them to change their policies if you don't like it. Which may be more trouble than it's worth.
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#33 Mar 15 2013 at 5:28 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Aripyanfar wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
(and I'm pretty sure not all religions worship a deity)
All the ones worth mentioning do.
Properly understood, Buddhism does not worship a deity. If I remember correctly, Taoism, or "The Way", does not worship a deity either.

You trying to make my point for me?
Going for Bigot Of The Week, for a change?
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#34 Mar 15 2013 at 5:36 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
(and I'm pretty sure not all religions worship a deity)

All the ones worth mentioning do.


Does the Force count as a deity?
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Going for Bigot Of The Week, for a change?

I won that last week for daring to go against the TransGender Poli-Industrial Complex! Smiley: laugh
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#36 Mar 15 2013 at 10:51 AM Rating: Good
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While it's a long thread, I'm not sure it's a week old yet. I could be wrong.
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#37 Mar 15 2013 at 12:29 PM Rating: Good
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#39 Mar 15 2013 at 2:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Belkira wrote:
I would love to see this come off of our currency. But if they don't, I'm not going to lose sleep over it.


My much my thought. Is it an endorsement of religion? Seems pretty obvious that it is. Does it harm anyone? I cannot possibly imagine it doing so.

Would be kinda fun to see all the fundies flip out if new currency was released without the motto, though.
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#40 Mar 15 2013 at 3:10 PM Rating: Good
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I suggest writing God Hates Us All on there instead.
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Would be kinda fun to see all the fundies flip out if new currency was released without the motto, though.

You only have to read the reactions from the people who didn't think to look along the side of the dollar coins.
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#42 Mar 15 2013 at 6:44 PM Rating: Good
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You really DO seem to be the United States of Canada and Jesusland, all smooshed into one. Is it as uncomfortable as Sunnis smooshed in with Shiites, or Hutus smooshed in with Tutesies?
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#43 Mar 16 2013 at 7:05 AM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
I disagree. I'd say active use of public land for worship is more egregious than rote script.

This.

As a Christian, I'm against the "pledge" in entirety. I don't see public prayers moments of silence as a big deal, but I can understand the concern against them.

As for money, I think that's silly. You can throw a Buddha, tree, unicorn, etc. on it and I wouldn't care. As long as it isn't blatantly derogatory.
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#44 Mar 18 2013 at 12:34 PM Rating: Good
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Mazra wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
(and I'm pretty sure not all religions worship a deity)

All the ones worth mentioning do.


Does the Force count as a deity?


That would depend on your criteria of what constitutes as a "diety." Merriam-Webster doesn't have "consciousness" or "sentience" within their definition of the word. Being a power greater than oneself, it would qualify to any who choose to call it that.
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#45 Mar 18 2013 at 12:36 PM Rating: Good
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No no no nonono no more definition threads.
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#46 Mar 18 2013 at 12:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thread? Smiley: confused
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#47 Mar 18 2013 at 12:51 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
No no no nonono no more definition threads.


Did I miss something in my absence?
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An owl and a squirrel are sitting in a tree, watching a farmer go by. The owl turns to the squirrel and says nothing, because owls can't talk.

The owl then eats the squirrel because it's a bird of prey.
#48 Mar 18 2013 at 1:23 PM Rating: Good
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Doug wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
No no no nonono no more definition threads.


Did I miss something in my absence?
Transsexual cluster@#%^ in =4.
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#49 Mar 18 2013 at 1:27 PM Rating: Good
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Doug wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
No no no nonono no more definition threads.


Did I miss something in my absence?
Transsexual cluster@#%^ in =4.


Didn't we already hash this sh*t out with Tailmon like six years ago?
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#50 Mar 18 2013 at 1:32 PM Rating: Good
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Nobody's memory stretches that far back.



Also it has Alma and toilets.
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