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I put on my robe and... well, I feel like a wizard. Follow

#1 Jun 02 2012 at 8:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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Stars!

I was actually kind of lost and in trouble and was threatened into buying this - paid way too much for it (USD30 or so), but at least I could buy myself out of that situation. And feel like a wizard. Yay.
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#2 Jun 02 2012 at 8:29 AM Rating: Good
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ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
#3 Jun 02 2012 at 8:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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Smiley: glare

lolbacon
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#4 Jun 02 2012 at 8:44 AM Rating: Good
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Bacon is delicious! Smiley: schooled
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ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
#5 Jun 02 2012 at 8:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't think so.
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#6 Jun 02 2012 at 9:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kalivha wrote:
I don't think so.


You think wrong.
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#7 Jun 02 2012 at 10:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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Can we talk about magic?

And how I can totally turn up to work looking like that and it's socially acceptable?
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#8 Jun 02 2012 at 10:26 AM Rating: Good
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Bacon is ******* awesome.

Also, I went to McDonalds yesterday because I had a craving for hamburger for some reason and they had all big signs saying "100% Beef!" next to their burgers, even the ones with bacon on them. Smiley: dubious
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#9 Jun 02 2012 at 10:43 AM Rating: Good
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Solrain wrote:
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LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
#10 Jun 02 2012 at 10:56 AM Rating: Good
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I do need to go to some fastfood chain in Pakistan just to see what they use instead of bacon. Smiley: lol
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#11 Jun 02 2012 at 12:13 PM Rating: Good
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Kalivha wrote:
I do need to go to some fastfood chain in Pakistan just to see what they use instead of bacon. Smiley: lol


Lamb or goat is my guess.
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#12 Jun 02 2012 at 12:16 PM Rating: Excellent
That robe is freaking awesome Kali. Smiley: grin
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#13 Jun 02 2012 at 12:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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They probably use turkey for their bacon.

On that note, turkey bacon is horrible. Had some last night because the local store ran out of the good stuff. It was basically just smoked and salted turkey meat, ground up into a paste and reshaped into thin bacon slices. Didn't taste nasty, but it was horrible bacon.

Religions that impose nonsensical restrictions on their followers are stupid. I'm not going to point fingers, because Islam isn't the only religion doing it, but I think it's hilariously silly and I can't believe anyone would willingly sign up for it. Do they honestly believe that their god will smite them for eating real bacon? If you're eating fake bacon then you obviously like the taste and want the real bacon, you just don't want to upset your god. By desiring something your god forbids you, haven't you already gone against him?

Not directing it at anyone in particular, just thinking out loud. And then typing it down.

Like your wizard robe, Kali. You need to find a wizard hat to go with it before you can do your magic, though. Smiley: tongue

Edited, Jun 2nd 2012 8:55pm by Mazra
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#14 Jun 02 2012 at 1:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Maybe some people don't eat bacon because it's positively disgusting and terrible for you, and maybe not everyone is a hedonistic self-destructive drain on the planet. Just maybe.
#15 Jun 02 2012 at 2:00 PM Rating: Good
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Solrain wrote:
WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.

LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
#16 Jun 02 2012 at 2:01 PM Rating: Good
Totally agree Maz, that's one of the reasons I'm Wiccan. We don't even have rules really, the Wiccan Rede is more of a guideline than an actual rule. I think it's a much better policy to give people credit for their own intelligence, and let them decide for themselves what is right or wrong. Having arbitrary rules like "don't have *** before you get married" or "don't eat pork" and giving no logical reason for it, just annoys me.

I'm not a big fan of bacon myself though. I really don't get the obsession that so many people seem to have with bacon. When I do eat pork, I much prefer ham or sausage.
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#17 Jun 02 2012 at 3:17 PM Rating: Good
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Guenny wrote:
Maybe some people don't eat bacon because it's positively disgusting and terrible for you, and maybe not everyone is a hedonistic self-destructive drain on the planet. Just maybe.


If you choose to not eat bacon because you don't like the taste, that's one thing. I'm talking about people who refrain from eating it, despite wanting to eat it, simply because their religion dictates it.
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#18 Jun 02 2012 at 3:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Also, I went to McDonalds yesterday because I had a craving for hamburger for some reason and they had all big signs saying "100% Beef!" next to their burgers, even the ones with bacon on them. Smiley: dubious


Please tell me this didn't seriously confuse you or cause you to think this was somehow inaccurate.
#19 Jun 02 2012 at 4:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Totally agree Maz, that's one of the reasons I'm Wiccan a Pirate. We don't even have rules really, the Wiccan Rede Pirate's Code is more of a guideline than an actual rule.


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#20 Jun 02 2012 at 4:11 PM Rating: Excellent
Well actually... I am a pirate too. Smiley: grin I go to pirate events during the summer, AND I just got the lead in a community theater production of The Lady Pirates of Captain Bree. So not only am I a pirate, I'm a pirate captain.
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#21 Jun 02 2012 at 5:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Only if I can play this card.
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#22 Jun 02 2012 at 8:40 PM Rating: Decent
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I had expected you to dress like the locals. I hope you can at least wear shorts and a tank top?
Nice stars!
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#23 Jun 02 2012 at 8:43 PM Rating: Good
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What would happen if you ran outside with a wicked weasel bikini on? Would that be like... instant mob stoning, no trial, corpse burned, whole town must now be cleansed of the evil you brought to their village?
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#24 Jun 02 2012 at 11:11 PM Rating: Good
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Nil, I didn't eat bacon before, I even stopped eating pork pâté because I think it smells funny long before it became relevant.

Interestingly, people making a huge deal about eating halal are a rather recent development because some PR folk thought it'd be a good idea to make people feel like they're following Islam by picking this over stuff that's actually hard to follow.

I personally really like the Ahmadiyya view because it focuses a lot more on humanist values, I just need to figure out their statements about Jesus.

Tailmon wrote:

I had expected you to dress like the locals. I hope you can at least wear shorts and a tank top?
Nice stars!
I don't wear shorts and a tank top at home either, I haven't tried. I know there's a lady from Oklahoma here who wears short sleeved shirts and skirts (at least knee length), and some Indian/Pakistani expat people who are here on holiday who dress similarly. Short sleeves are usually okay, but it's just not that great an idea in this weather anyway. I've not got unlimited sunscreen!

TirithRR wrote:
What would happen if you ran outside with a wicked weasel bikini on? Would that be like... instant mob stoning, no trial, corpse burned, whole town must now be cleansed of the evil you brought to their village?
Meh. I have no idea. In some areas it'd be completely okay because those areas are sealed off to the male population. Generally people would probably just ask me to put on more clothes. In here, not so much, there's barely anyone here who hasn't lived in NA/EU at some point, so they'd know.

Interestingly, there's this happening in UAE. Especially in Dubai, Emiratis are a minority (18% of the population, I believe?) and while they have a lot more rights than everyone else, they can't really do much.

Edited, Jun 3rd 2012 5:11am by Kalivha
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#25 Jun 03 2012 at 7:42 AM Rating: Good
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The issue I have with Halal slaughter is the same issue I have with Kosher slaughter.
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#26 Jun 03 2012 at 9:41 AM Rating: Good
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Meh, if I concerned myself with this stuff, I'd be vegetarian.

Over here, nothing that isn't halal would be available short of buying the chickens myself and killing them (which I could do at the market, but wtf). In the UK (and Europe in general), the value for money is just much much better if it's halal. Plus I like my awesome cute Shia shopowner. Smiley: grin
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#27 Jun 03 2012 at 10:37 AM Rating: Good
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I like steak as much as the next guy, but I see no reason why my cow should be conscious during the exsanguination.
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#28 Jun 03 2012 at 11:01 AM Rating: Good
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I don't think that's actually a halal rule. It's probably some Salafi rubbish. It's not practiced consistently anyway.
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#29 Jun 03 2012 at 2:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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To be fair, the historical religious ban on pork products was because of trichinosis.

Now we know to salt cure or sanitize our pork products with antibacterial herbs in sausages.
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#30 Jun 03 2012 at 4:04 PM Rating: Good
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Kalivha wrote:
I don't think that's actually a halal rule. It's probably some Salafi rubbish. It's not practiced consistently anyway.

No, it is. The animal isn't allowed to be stunned in any way. Like I said, it's more or less exactly the same as Kosher slaughter. The only difference is the prayers.
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#31 Jun 03 2012 at 10:18 PM Rating: Good
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Dude, I'm pretty sure that is Salafi doctrine because people constantly bicker about whether it's true or not.
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#32 Jun 04 2012 at 1:50 AM Rating: Decent
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you look beautiful! I love it =)
#33 Jun 04 2012 at 6:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kalivha wrote:
Dude, I'm pretty sure that is Salafi doctrine because people constantly bicker about whether it's true or not.


The way I understand it, halal meat is currently meat from a Dhabihah slaughter. And Dhabihah slaughtering is done by slitting the animal's throat and leaving it to bleed out. This is done to prevent the animal from dying before being slaughtered (death by slaughter is exsanguination in this context), which would make it carrion according to the Qur'an, and thus haraam and not halal.

Am I getting it right so far?

Now, the problem with slitting an animal's throat is that it doesn't kill it instantly. You sever the wind pipe, the arteries and all that, but you leave the spine intact. The animal is conscious until the blood loss becomes so great that unconsciousness occurs. And as with any wound, clotting can happen, which leads to ballooning. Ballooning is when a blood clot shuts off a vein. It's the body's way of trying to minimize blood loss. This can happen during exsanguination and while the animal still dies due to, you know, having its head almost cut off, the process is delayed.

According to a report by Compassion In World Farming, ballooning happens in up to sixty percent of the cases of Dhabihah slaughtering.

Now, if some Muslims decide that stunning the animal is okay, good for them, but when you go to the Pakistani deli on the corner and order halal meat, how do you think they slaughtered that animal? Electrocuted it? Gassed it? Or Dhabihah?
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#34 Jun 04 2012 at 6:48 AM Rating: Good
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Mazra wrote:
when you go to the Pakistani deli on the corner and order halal meat, how do you think they slaughtered that animal?
Unless it makes a significant difference in how it tastes, then it's not exactly something I think about.
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#35 Jun 04 2012 at 7:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Now, if some Muslims decide that stunning the animal is okay, good for them, but when you go to the Pakistani deli on the corner and order halal meat, how do you think they slaughtered that animal? Electrocuted it? Gassed it? Or Dhabihah?


In the UK (as well as Germany, Thailand, Malaysia and a load of other places), there is a standard for labeling (handing out certificates) - not all halal meat has proper certificates to begin with, but the kind that doesn't has been known to be mixed with pork and there's been all sort of other business, which is why the certificates are there in the first place. Depending on certificate, the meat might be zabihah or not or slaughtered by Shias or whatever, and I don't have complete knowledge of this (because I don't care enough to go beyond checking that there is a certificate at all and it isn't hand written).

Also, Maz, you live in Denmark. I think pretty much all poultry you buy at major retailers in Denmark is zabihah, isn't it? Or did they change that?

In Muslim majority countries, we generally have the luxury to be there when the animal is slaughtered (unless we buy jelly or something) so should I care to make sure, I could... again, I really don't care enough.
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#36 Jun 04 2012 at 8:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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WTF?!?!?!? I came into a thread expecting to read about Kali's wizard robe and end up reading 20 posts about slaughtering animals?

Anyway Kali, that's not a wizard robe. A wizard's robe would be a dark base with white or yellow stars. So it's like a negative of a Wizard's robe I suppose.
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#37 Jun 04 2012 at 9:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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It feels like one, anyway.

Also the first time I've worn white in years and not felt horrible in it.
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#38 Jun 04 2012 at 1:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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#39 Jun 04 2012 at 3:22 PM Rating: Good
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I find it hard to take it seriously when people that kill animals for pleasure get self righteous about their suffering.

En particulier, it's painfully obvious Nilatai only cares about the issue because it gives him a pretence to attack Islam, Dawkins' most hated religion. The French far right recently discovered an interest in animal welfare, too, just before the election. I guess it's goin' around, huh?

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#40 Jun 04 2012 at 9:24 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, it's kind of... most people in the West don't spend a second thinking about where their meat came from. In Islam, at least once a year it's recommended and kind of normal to have the animal you'll eat (goat, sheep, cow, whatever) live with you for a week before being killed before your eyes. Which is a bit weird but at least we know what's happening, right? And can make choices based on seeing that.

Of course that goes out the window if you have to spend Eid in Europe or something but even then at least the slaughtering is done in public.
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#41 Jun 04 2012 at 9:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Watching videos put out by PETA to make people not want to eat meat just makes me want a hamburger covered in bacon and fried chicken, this thread has also made me hungry. And that looks more like something a middle eastern white mage would wear.
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#42 Jun 05 2012 at 8:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Kavekk is right. I only care about things the great Dawkins tells me to!

I mean, he hates Judaism just as much as Islam, amirite? That's the only reason an atheist could possibly have a problem with animals being concious throughout the entirety of the slaughter process.

Oh! I almost forgot, Dawkins told me that I should hate battery farming as well. Because only Jews do that kind of thing. It's something about it being cheaper for them than free range animal rearing.

Kavekk, perhaps you should focus on developing some kind of personality, rather than shooting the odd ad hominem in my direction.
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#43 Jun 05 2012 at 9:53 AM Rating: Good
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Your petulant misapprehension of my post aside, never try to bluff with your cards face up.
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#44 Jun 05 2012 at 1:44 PM Rating: Good
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So why does Kavekk and Nilatai have contempt for one another?
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#45 Jun 05 2012 at 1:58 PM Rating: Good
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Kavekk doesn't like me because I'm smarter and better looking than he is. Jealousy is a terrible emotion.

Also because I've criticised Islam (and other religions) in the past for numerous reasons, it means that the only reason I could be opposed to this kind of slaughter is because it's a religious practice. Not for any other reason ever. Smiley: schooled


Edited, Jun 5th 2012 4:02pm by Nilatai
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#46 Jun 05 2012 at 9:59 PM Rating: Good
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Probably both trying to be token British or something. Smiley: tongue
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#47 Jun 06 2012 at 2:00 AM Rating: Good
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I was here first, or something.
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#49 Jun 06 2012 at 2:32 AM Rating: Good
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#50 Jun 06 2012 at 9:14 AM Rating: Good
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Kavekk wrote:
I find it hard to take it seriously when people that kill animals for pleasure get self righteous about their suffering.


You and me both. I don't kill animals for pleasure, though. Not even spiders. I kill those out of (irrational) fear for my own well-being.

Kalivha wrote:
Also, Maz, you live in Denmark. I think pretty much all poultry you buy at major retailers in Denmark is zabihah, isn't it? Or did they change that?


Nope, didn't change it last I read about it (2011). 99% of all poultry in Denmark is halal. We have this thing called religious freedom in our country, which means we can't ban halal as it would be banning Islam. We're softies, I guess. And since one of our major exports is poultry, and since some of our major clients are Middle-eastern countries, it's cheaper to just make it all halal than some of it. I mean, if the British decided they'd only import halal bacon (ignoring the fact that pork can never be halal), we'd start slitting piggy throats like it was going out of style as well.

That said, we don't allow exsanguination (bleeding to death) of conscious animals. It's called animal cruelty and it's illegal. The chickens are stunned by electrocution before being cut, meaning they're not conscious during the process. Electrocution isn't directly prohibited in the Qur'an (for obvious reasons), so it's okay. Sort of. The Muslims don't like it much, but it's technically halal. The imams here want the stunning gone from the procedure, but so far it's still considered animal cruelty and thus illegal to slaughter a conscious animal.

As an addendum, I don't mind halal as long as the animal is rendered unconscious first, either by electrocution or gassing (since percussive stunning is forbidden). My issue isn't with the procedure of Dhabihah itself (exsanguination by cutting the throat), it's with the animal cruelty part when the animal is conscious.
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#51 Jun 06 2012 at 11:33 AM Rating: Decent
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I know that at least in some facilities, they have some sort of Islamic mind control going on. No idea how effective it is but I've seen videos and the animals just kind of faint when they hear "Bismillah" (i.e. the blessing that is said before slaughter anyway). That video was as part of a lecture, so I think it might actually be legit.

Honestly, the issue of whether something not explicitely mentioned is haraam (ie forbidden) is stupid to begin with because everything is halal by default until proven otherwise. At best I'd say this is makrooh, and even the concerns about the animals dying before the cut (which seem kind of valid) are... well, just check if it happened and then sell the affected meat to non-Muslims. It's not actually haraam to give food you can't eat to those who can (only with alcohol it is). I have a friend who is crazy paranoid about halal issues and even she ended up giving some random yoghurt that contained pork gelatine to her non-Muslim neighbours.
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