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#52 May 06 2009 at 6:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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Allegory wrote:
NixNot wrote:
I would have, at some point, at least tried to apologize for the way things were handled.

Apologies are for when you have done something wrong.


That is so far from true it nearly comes full circle.

One can and should express regret for missteps, hurt feelings, lack of clarity (lol EQ joke) and a myriad of other things. And not in the fake "I'm sorry you're too stupid to understand" way, but sincerely and with empathy.

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#53 May 06 2009 at 6:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Samira wrote:
Allegory wrote:
NixNot wrote:
I would have, at some point, at least tried to apologize for the way things were handled.

Apologies are for when you have done something wrong.


That is so far from true it nearly comes full circle.

One can and should express regret for missteps, hurt feelings, lack of clarity (lol EQ joke) and a myriad of other things. And not in the fake "I'm sorry you're too stupid to understand" way, but sincerely and with empathy.

Also, the idea that then openly baiting other users, violating standard procedures for dealing with interpersonal conflicts, and ending it all with stepping as low as direct insults to individuals...

Well, let's say Nix has a point that hasn't been addressed, and there is a growing group of people that are waiting to see what comes of it.
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#54 May 06 2009 at 6:55 AM Rating: Decent
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NixNot wrote:
So, they didn't ***** up the contest, which is kind of what started this ball rolling? Well, that's a relief.


Nor did they act like a communist state when dealing with any kind, nicely put or terribly insulting, dissent.
#55 May 06 2009 at 6:59 AM Rating: Default
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I joined the facebook group. :)

#56 May 06 2009 at 7:03 AM Rating: Good
niobia wrote:
I joined the facebook group. :)



This, not that any of you probably care.
#57 May 06 2009 at 7:03 AM Rating: Default
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Master borlandomagic wrote:
niobia wrote:
I joined the facebook group. :)



This, not that any of you probably care.


I do although I log on in spurts. I do like facebooks random questionnaires and such
#58 May 06 2009 at 7:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Samira wrote:
That is so far from true it nearly comes full circle.

At first I thought you were getting at the manipulative aspect of apologies. But...
Samira wrote:
One can and should express regret for missteps, hurt feelings, lack of clarity (lol EQ joke) and a myriad of other things. And not in the fake "I'm sorry you're too stupid to understand" way, but sincerely and with empathy.

I don't see how any of that does not fall under the category of "done something wrong."
#59 May 06 2009 at 7:05 AM Rating: Default
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Allegory wrote:
Samira wrote:
That is so far from true it nearly comes full circle.

At first I thought you were getting at the manipulative aspect of apologies. But...
Samira wrote:
One can and should express regret for missteps, hurt feelings, lack of clarity (lol EQ joke) and a myriad of other things. And not in the fake "I'm sorry you're too stupid to understand" way, but sincerely and with empathy.

I don't see how any of that does not fall under the category of "done something wrong."


I think you're being pedantic.

If not, I apologise.
#60 May 06 2009 at 7:06 AM Rating: Good
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Pawkeshup the Vile wrote:
Also, the idea that then openly baiting other users, violating standard procedures for dealing with interpersonal conflicts, and ending it all with stepping as low as direct insults to individuals...

Well, let's say Nix has a point that hasn't been addressed, and there is a growing group of people that are waiting to see what comes of it.

And that "growing group" should be apologizing to the staff for giving them a needless headache by pretending they had done something wrong when they had done their jobs correctly, at least in this instance.
#61 May 06 2009 at 7:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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Archfiend Goggy wrote:
I think you're being pedantic.

If not, I apologise.

My original statement was a joke about how the staff had done nothing wrong, and yet Nix wanted an apology from them. "Apologies are only for when you've done something wrong." That's what I meant.

Edited, May 6th 2009 10:07am by Allegory
#62 May 06 2009 at 7:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Allegory wrote:
Archfiend Goggy wrote:
I think you're being pedantic.

If not, I apologise.

My original statement was a joke about how the staff had done nothing wrong, and yet Nix wanted an apology from them. "Apologies are only for when you've done something wrong." That's what I meant.

Edited, May 6th 2009 10:07am by Allegory


Oh it was a joke, right...
#63 May 06 2009 at 7:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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In my job I deal with customers. Pretty often I deal with unhappy customers.

The FIRST thing a customer with a beef wants to hear, whether they'd admit it or not, is some version of "I'm sorry you're dissatisfied," followed by some version of "what can we do to make this work for you?"

It doesn't mean I'm accepting culpability for whatever went wrong; it's an acknowledgment that they are not pleased with a product or a service. It hurts nothing and no one to offer that.

It's only manipulative in the same way any social convention is.

Had the staff here, and I don't know or care who would be the appropriate one, just stepped up and said "You're right, there was a misprint, this is what we meant to say. It doesn't seem that anyone was affected but please let us know if that's incorrect and we'll do what we can to make it right", most of this kerfluffle would have dissipated on the first day.

Not only that, but it would have been the right thing to do.



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#64 May 06 2009 at 7:11 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't think we're viewed as customers, premium or not.
#65 May 06 2009 at 7:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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What are we, then? A pestilence on their nice, clean servers?

There's a really easy answer for that one.

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#66 May 06 2009 at 7:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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Samira wrote:
What are we, then?
The reason Blizzard and Sony partner with them.
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#67 May 06 2009 at 7:16 AM Rating: Decent
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Samira wrote:
The FIRST thing a customer with a beef wants to hear, whether they'd admit it or not, is some version of "I'm sorry you're dissatisfied," followed by some version of "what can we do to make this work for you?"

Not really on topic, but I loathe that kind of manipulative trite. I udnerstand that most people like it, and were you in a situation dealing with me I would also understand you are required to say it, but still it rubs me the wrong way.
Samira wrote:
Had the staff here, and I don't know or care who would be the appropriate one, just stepped up and said "You're right, there was a misprint, this is what we meant to say. It doesn't seem that anyone was affected but please let us know if that's incorrect and we'll do what we can to make it right", most of this kerfluffle would have dissipated on the first day.

Are you talking about the recent contest? I am not considering that event. I am only considering the most recent occurrence between BT, Mindel, and Kaolian, and then the following reactions by the community.
#68 May 06 2009 at 7:17 AM Rating: Good
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NixNot's not going to be very happy that you all aren't still talking about him.

Edited, May 6th 2009 11:17am by boywithoutaspoon
#69 May 06 2009 at 7:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm talking about the event that spawned the ensuing meltdown, yes. BT and Mindel both posted stuff that was out of line. The REASON they did was the lack of response about the stupid contest.

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#70 May 06 2009 at 7:18 AM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
What are we, then?


I'm not saying you're wrong in the fact that we are customers, just some aren't treated as though they are. Anyone that has a differing opinion than an admin is muted, locked, or sub-defaulted.
#71 May 06 2009 at 7:19 AM Rating: Good
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Oh shi-

Nixnot is awesome.

Nixnot is gay.

Nixnot used to be an admin.

Nixnot is awesome.

Nixnot works at a copy center

Nixnot is interrobang

Nixnot is not a meme.

Nixnot is the worst skype thread ever!


That better Boy?
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#72 May 06 2009 at 7:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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Also, I dunno where you get off thinking my expressing sympathy for an unhappy customer is manipulative. I'm not "required" to do that; I'm not some drone reading from a script. I'm here to fix problems.

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#73 May 06 2009 at 7:19 AM Rating: Good
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Allegory wrote:
Samira wrote:
The FIRST thing a customer with a beef wants to hear, whether they'd admit it or not, is some version of "I'm sorry you're dissatisfied," followed by some version of "what can we do to make this work for you?"

Not really on topic, but I loathe that kind of manipulative trite. I udnerstand that most people like it, and were you in a situation dealing with me I would also understand you are required to say it, but still it rubs me the wrong way.
Samira wrote:
Had the staff here, and I don't know or care who would be the appropriate one, just stepped up and said "You're right, there was a misprint, this is what we meant to say. It doesn't seem that anyone was affected but please let us know if that's incorrect and we'll do what we can to make it right", most of this kerfluffle would have dissipated on the first day.

Are you talking about the recent contest? I am not considering that event. I am only considering the most recent occurrence between BT, Mindel, and Kaolian, and then the following reactions by the community.


Nix was right, it stemmed from that competition. You may only be referring to Mindel and BT being muted by Kao, but the seeds of dissent were sown when the threads about the competition were nuked. This led to complaints about censorship (in a fashion) and here we are.

You can't consider the muting in isolation.
#74 May 06 2009 at 7:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Siralin wrote:
Samira wrote:
What are we, then?


I'm not saying you're wrong in the fact that we are customers, just some aren't treated as though they are. Anyone that has a differing opinion than an admin is muted, locked, or sub-defaulted.
I think it's more people directly challenging the admins on their moderation in the public forum that causes most of the spats. On a large majority of the boards I'm on, one of the rules is that you're not allowed to question/discuss the moderation on the board. If you have problems with it, you PM the admins and discuss it in private.
#75 May 06 2009 at 7:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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That may very well be it, BWAS. If that's the problem, though, it needed to be made clear much earlier. Those sorts of forums usually have a stated rule that says as much; furthermore, a mod would have stepped in and said "PM me about this if you have any questions but we're not discussing it here."

Anyway. Water under the bridge.

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#76 May 06 2009 at 7:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Archfiend Goggy wrote:
You can't consider the muting in isolation.

I do.

Whatever the cause, a independent decision was made on how to act. A poor conduct loop is essentially the same as a revenge loop. Someone killing my brother does not excuse my choice to kill the murderer. Whether the staff acted right or wrong in their response to the contest situation is a separate matter in my eyes.
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