Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Quote:
You get paid maternity leave from some employers, where men don't.
Maternity leave is very very rarely paid, dear.
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Black people are dumbFollow
Maternity leave is very very rarely paid, dear.
nomnom wrote:
I'm simply stating a fact that sometimes gets lost among the emotional rubble of indignities tossed around. Europeans didn't have "Slave Farmers" in Africa. There were no "Slave Ranches".
Edited, Oct 18th 2007 11:34am by Jophiel
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Daboder da Basher wrote:
Lady Annabella wrote:
Please, educate me on these rights.
But cases will be handled very differently. In the eyes of the public, the man who is accused is presumed guilty, not so in the case of the accused woman, because the woman is favored.
That's your opinion, not the general populace's. If I see a court case where a man is being accused of rape I don't automatically start yelling "LOCK THAT ***** UP!" I'll wait and see what evidence is presented and form my own opinion.
Daboder wrote:
Also, let's look at dating:
While there are occasions where the woman will take the man out, and pay for the date, that's usually not the case. It's expected of the man to wine and dine the woman. How many free drinks do you think women get at the bars compared to men?
While there are occasions where the woman will take the man out, and pay for the date, that's usually not the case. It's expected of the man to wine and dine the woman. How many free drinks do you think women get at the bars compared to men?
What does this have to do with anything? Find a woman that's really into equal rights and see how well refusing to let her pay goes. I can guarantee it's a bit of a date ender.
Men being expected to pay is just a tradition kept from back when men were the only bread winners.
The drinks things is silly as well. A man chooses to buy a woman drinks because he's trying to get in her pants.. or a date at least. There's no "right, law, standard" to it, it's just a simple approach and an easy ice-breaker.
I had a drink bought for me last night by a lady I didn't know in fact. I'm sure she was doing it for the exact same reason a man does it. She was ugly as hell though, so I nodded in appreciation and didn't speak to her.
Daboder wrote:
You get paid maternity leave from some employers, where men don't.
A maternity leave isn't some sort of special leave. It's just like any other medical leave. The extra time tacked on to it is simply to help nurture the new person into the world.
Damn whores, making sure their children they carried inside of them for the better part of a year are stable and healthy.
Daboder wrote:
And how many stories have you heard about a women getting out of a speeding ticket by batting her eyes a little, of maybe even showing some skin?
Guys don't have that luxury.
Guys don't have that luxury.
If I get pulled over by a female cop that's as much of a perv as the type of male cop that let's women off for showin' some nip, you better believe I'm getting out of that ticket.
That's not a double standard, men are just hornier in general whilst having a more visual standard as opposed to women's emotional/story-based fantasies.
Daboder wrote:
And as far as sex is concerned, women can use their body's as a tool to get what they want. How many times have you heard of a man "sleeping his way to the top"?
Same issue that I just talked about.
And to add to it, that's only because there are more men in positions of power to promote said females. Reverse it and you'd hear about men sleeping their way to the top just as much.
Daboder wrote:
Our society looks at women as a gender to be pampered. You get favors just for being female.
Women should be pampered to an extent.
Kaelesh wrote:
Uglysasquatch, Mercenary Major wrote:
Kaelesh wrote:
You make it sound like it's not ok for them to be offended because some old white fatcat said that a group of people are somehow of a lesser intelligence because of skin color.
I'd be pretty pissed off myself.
I'd be pretty pissed off myself.
Personally, I agree, he's being ignorant, but doesn't mean its impossible.
Not my intention at all. I wasn't commenting on the story it self, just Senjiow's comment. I had to step out for a minute so I couldn't finish my post.
I'm not saying it isn't possible at all. I'm no Geneticist and I don't have a clue, beyond basic Biology class, how this stuff works. All I know is, if I was Black, I'd be pissed off, regardless of its truthiness.
To be fair on both sides, I don't see where he said black people were stupid. He said he was gloomy about the prospects of Africa (which does not include black people anywhere else in the world, and does not exclude white people in Africa) because testing indicated a general difference between the levels of intelligence between people here and people there.
Did I miss the part where he flat out said "Tests show that black people are dumber than white people" or is that just an implication that's being read into this whole mess?
Assuming I'm not missing something, I'd tend to agree based strictly on what I know, and that is to say that the African population, in general, is less educated than some other parts of the world. Why is that such a hard pill to swallow?
Me thinks you need to read more of the article and this thread. Most of us have come to the conclusion that he is indeed, a racist prick.
Donate. One day it could be your family.
An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo
An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo
Jophiel wrote:
nomnom wrote:
I'm simply stating a fact that sometimes gets lost among the emotional rubble of indignities tossed around. Europeans didn't have "Slave Farmers" in Africa. There were no "Slave Ranches".
Edited, Oct 18th 2007 11:34am by Jophiel
If you had quoted my post in it's entirety, you would have found that I agreed with you. Instead, you edited it to make it what, more inflammatory? Nice. Congratulations.
The Europeans are not innocent in the slave trade, not by any means, but to place the blame ENTIRELY on their shoulders is simply incorrect.
Uglysasquatch, Mercenary Major wrote:
Me thinks you need to read more of the article and this thread. Most of us have come to the conclusion that he is indeed, a racist prick.
Maybe. 'tis why I didn't take my usual hard line opinionated stance.
AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Daboder da Basher wrote:
Yes, I agree, but had the shoe been on the other foot, and SHE had the marks, I would have been whisked away immediately. All because of the gender. In this instance alone, I paid over $2000 because I was the male in the situation.
So... tell me again what this has to do with a woman getting paid less than a man for doing the same work?
He's saying that there are also inequalities in women's favor.
A handful of circumstantial possibilities, where someone doesn't do their job right, does not come even close to equaling being paid LESS for the same job.
I'm sorry, but one personal experience of having a bad cop not do his job correctly means little when you turn it around and look at the times that a cop has demeaned a woman into showing cleavage or jumping up and down in order to evade action taken against them.
Belkira wrote:
A handful of circumstantial possibilities, where someone doesn't do their job right, does not come even close to equaling being paid LESS for the same job.
I'm sorry, but one personal experience of having a bad cop not do his job correctly means little when you turn it around and look at the times that a cop has demeaned a woman into showing cleavage or jumping up and down in order to evade action taken against them.
I'm sorry, but one personal experience of having a bad cop not do his job correctly means little when you turn it around and look at the times that a cop has demeaned a woman into showing cleavage or jumping up and down in order to evade action taken against them.
And just for review: Anecdotes are not data.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
To go back to the original topic.
The guy is a tool. There is no research, he has nothing to base his very racist comments on. He states right in the article that we'll possibly identify the genes responsible for intelligence in the next 10 years, can't do research if you don't know what you're looking for.
IF they found the gene and IF they could prove that black people are predisposed to be less intelligent than, say, asian people, I wouldn't be surprised but I can't see it being a very significant difference.
Black people are predominantly of African origin, they have fewer resources and life is much tougher there, physical strength and resilience plays a much more important role and intelligence is less important to survival than in other parts of the world.
I also wouldn't be surprised if genetics proved that black people are more likely to be faster than most other races. With the flat terrain in Africa speed would have been an important survival trait in the past.
Asians are smart.
Russians are tough. (it's a nationality but I'm more concerned with geography here than colour)
Stereotypes are generally there for a reason, there's almost always some truth to them although they're usually exagerated.
Either way, these differences, if they exist, are limited enough as to be a non-issue in everyday life. There is no reason to publicly announce a discovery such as the above situations to the public as the knowledge has no useful purpose and would only fuel racism.
The guy is a tool. There is no research, he has nothing to base his very racist comments on. He states right in the article that we'll possibly identify the genes responsible for intelligence in the next 10 years, can't do research if you don't know what you're looking for.
IF they found the gene and IF they could prove that black people are predisposed to be less intelligent than, say, asian people, I wouldn't be surprised but I can't see it being a very significant difference.
Black people are predominantly of African origin, they have fewer resources and life is much tougher there, physical strength and resilience plays a much more important role and intelligence is less important to survival than in other parts of the world.
I also wouldn't be surprised if genetics proved that black people are more likely to be faster than most other races. With the flat terrain in Africa speed would have been an important survival trait in the past.
Asians are smart.
Russians are tough. (it's a nationality but I'm more concerned with geography here than colour)
Stereotypes are generally there for a reason, there's almost always some truth to them although they're usually exagerated.
Either way, these differences, if they exist, are limited enough as to be a non-issue in everyday life. There is no reason to publicly announce a discovery such as the above situations to the public as the knowledge has no useful purpose and would only fuel racism.
StubsOnAsura the Wise wrote:
He said he was gloomy about the prospects of Africa (which does not include black people anywhere else in the world, and does not exclude white people in Africa) because testing indicated a general difference between the levels of intelligence between people here and people there.
Keep in mind he's talking about genetics and white people in Africa are actually decended from other parts of the world. He really is talking about black people in general. He's a bigot.
nomnom wrote:
If you had quoted my post in it's entirety, you would have found that I agreed with you. Instead, you edited it to make it what, more inflammatory? Nice. Congratulations.
The Europeans are not innocent in the slave trade, not by any means, but to place the blame ENTIRELY on their shoulders is simply incorrect.
The Europeans are not innocent in the slave trade, not by any means, but to place the blame ENTIRELY on their shoulders is simply incorrect.
They were not. The majority of the slaves traded to Europe during the extent of the slave trade era were captured specifically for European sale. Yes, they were captured by coastal tribes complicit in the trade. However they were not simply existing slaves being sold off.
To compare it to something else, it's much like the decimation of the Great Lakes beaver populations by by Native American tribes during the 1600's. Yes, the Indians were hunting beaver prior to European influence. Yes, some of the pelts sold were those hunted independently by the Indians anyway. But the native tribes didn't have reason to over-hunt the region to near extinction until the Europeans made it profitable to capture pelts by the tonnage.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Kaain the Irrelevant wrote:
What does this have to do with anything? Find a woman that's really into equal rights and see how well refusing to let her pay goes. I can guarantee it's a bit of a date ender.
I agree, and have dated such a women, but you can't argue the fact that it's not the norm.
Kaain the Irrelevant wrote:
Men being expected to pay is just a tradition kept from back when men were the only bread winners.
The drinks things is silly as well. A man chooses to buy a woman drinks because he's trying to get in her pants.. or a date at least. There's no "right, law, standard" to it, it's just a simple approach and an easy ice-breaker.
The drinks things is silly as well. A man chooses to buy a woman drinks because he's trying to get in her pants.. or a date at least. There's no "right, law, standard" to it, it's just a simple approach and an easy ice-breaker.
I agree, but my argument isn't that it shouldn't be that way. I'm just saying that these are perks that women get that men don't, or not nearly as often.
Kaain the Irrelevant wrote:
A maternity leave isn't some sort of special leave. It's just like any other medical leave. The extra time tacked on to it is simply to help nurture the new person into the world.
Damn whores, making sure their children they carried inside of them for the better part of a year are stable and healthy.
Damn whores, making sure their children they carried inside of them for the better part of a year are stable and healthy.
Thanks for the definition of maternity leave. I didn't need it, but thanks anyway. Again, I'm not saying that it shouldn't be that way, just that it is an option available to a woman and not a man. And again, I know some employers are different, and do extend extra privileges to men as well for this.
Kaain the Irrelevant wrote:
That's not a double standard, men are just hornier in general whilst having a more visual standard as opposed to women's emotional/story-based fantasies.
Again, I agree, but it doesn't change that fact that it's a benefit of being a woman that men don't get.
Kaain the Irrelevant wrote:
And to add to it, that's only because there are more men in positions of power to promote said females. Reverse it and you'd hear about men sleeping their way to the top just as much.
This is the one point I don't agree with you on. I think it might increase to a degree, but just because of how differently men and women precieve sex, I don't see it as being equal.
Kaain the Irrelevant wrote:
Women should be pampered to an extent.
I wholeheartedly agree with this one. I pamper my women as well.
Edited, Oct 18th 2007 12:16pm by Daboder
Sooooo, basically, you agree with me.. but you're just bitter?
Kaain the Irrelevant wrote:
Sooooo, basically, you agree with me.. but you're just bitter?
Not bitter. Just unwilling to entertain the possibility that women are justified in complaining about being percieved as "less" than their male counterparts.
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Kaain the Irrelevant wrote:
Sooooo, basically, you agree with me.. but you're just bitter?
Not bitter. Just unwilling to entertain the possibility that women are justified in complaining about being percieved as "less" than their male counterparts.
Here's what annoys me about this whole female/male sexism argument. Women have an important role to play in society: child rearing. The more that women are out there striving to become a man's equal at work, the less their attention their children are receiving.
This isn't exactly the fault of women in general. Its hard for a man in today's world to earn enough to support himself, his wife, and their children.
I think men are not necessarily annoyed at women for wanting equal pay, they're annoyed that society is in such a state that women are basically required to try and do so.
I don't know where I was going with this.
AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
Here's what annoys me about this whole female/male sexism argument. Women have an important role to play in society: child rearing. The more that women are out there striving to become a man's equal at work, the less their attention their children are receiving.
I used to like you. Not so much anymore.
My only worth is not in raising a child. It's insulting that you would even suggest that it is.
AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
This isn't exactly the fault of women in general. Its hard for a man in today's world to earn enough to support himself, his wife, and their children.
I think men are not necessarily annoyed at women for wanting equal pay, they're annoyed that society is in such a state that women are basically required to try and do so.
I don't know where I was going with this.
I think men are not necessarily annoyed at women for wanting equal pay, they're annoyed that society is in such a state that women are basically required to try and do so.
I don't know where I was going with this.
I have often asked my husband if he was bothered by the fact that I make so much more than him. He said, "No, I'm able to take a job I love but that I can't get paid too much to do. If anything, I'm thankful."
That's a real man for you. Not embarrassed that a woman can make more than he can, but embraces it instead.
In before Belk retracts her statement of liking you.
Edit: Dammit.
Edited, Oct 18th 2007 12:37pm by Kaain
Edit: Dammit.
Edited, Oct 18th 2007 12:37pm by Kaain
Kaain the Irrelevant wrote:
In before Belk retracts her statement of liking you.
Nope.
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Kaain the Irrelevant wrote:
Sooooo, basically, you agree with me.. but you're just bitter?
Not bitter. Just unwilling to entertain the possibility that women are justified in complaining about being percieved as "less" than their male counterparts.
Somewhat true, but my argument in general isn't that any of these should be any different. I'm just saying that there are perks that women get, just as there are perks that men get. Women are not percieved as "less", just differently.
Daboder da Basher wrote:
Somewhat true, but my argument in general isn't that any of these should be any different. I'm just saying that there are perks that women get, just as there are perks that men get. Women are not percieved as "less", just differently.
If by "different," then you mean "not worth as much to do the same bob damn exact job as a person with a *****," then you'd be correct.
Unfortunately, that's not what different means.
My theory is that Kaain got a free drink from someone he was told was a woman who was actually really a man because he was at a gay bar and sits there, constantly telling us that the existance of a giant erect **** in his mouth is no proof that he is actually gay. Or bi-curious.
In before Nixnot.
In before Nixnot.
Turin wrote:
Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
Lady Annabella wrote:
My theory is that Kaain got a free drink from someone he was told was a woman who was actually really a man because he was at a gay bar and sits there, constantly telling us that the existance of a giant erect **** in his mouth is no proof that he is actually gay. Or bi-curious.
In before Nixnot.
In before Nixnot.
Kaain...?
I'm all for Kaain bashing, but I'm not sure why you'd say that in this particular thread.
Maybe in the one where he tells his ex that she was hotter when she had an eating disorder, but not this one.
Lady Annabella wrote:
My theory is that Kaain got a free drink from someone he was told was a woman who was actually really a man because he was at a gay bar and sits there, constantly telling us that the existance of a giant erect **** in his mouth is no proof that he is actually gay. Or bi-curious.
In before Nixnot.
In before Nixnot.
What did they do to you while you were gone?
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
Here's what annoys me about this whole female/male sexism argument. Women have an important role to play in society: child rearing. The more that women are out there striving to become a man's equal at work, the less their attention their children are receiving.
I used to like you. Not so much anymore.
My only worth is not in raising a child. It's insulting that you would even suggest that it is.
AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
This isn't exactly the fault of women in general. Its hard for a man in today's world to earn enough to support himself, his wife, and their children.
I think men are not necessarily annoyed at women for wanting equal pay, they're annoyed that society is in such a state that women are basically required to try and do so.
I don't know where I was going with this.
I think men are not necessarily annoyed at women for wanting equal pay, they're annoyed that society is in such a state that women are basically required to try and do so.
I don't know where I was going with this.
I have often asked my husband if he was bothered by the fact that I make so much more than him. He said, "No, I'm able to take a job I love but that I can't get paid too much to do. If anything, I'm thankful."
That's a real man for you. Not embarrassed that a woman can make more than he can, but embraces it instead.
Bleh.
I never said raising children was the only thing women offered to the world.
But I have believed for quite some time now that the decrease in moral fiber and the increase of behavioral problems in our children in general (read: not necessarily for your family) is due to the fact that women are basically required to spend more and more time away from the home.
Don't be so quick to judge. I'm not Archie Bunker over here.
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