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#27 Jun 30 2004 at 7:42 PM Rating: Good
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Jesus does never refer to himself as the son of god.

"But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"
Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven."
- Matthew 16:15-17 (NIV)

The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God."
"Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied.
- Matthew 26:63b-64a (NIV)

"No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven, the Son of Man [...] For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son..." - John 3:13, 16a (NIV)

"Why do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said I am God's Son?" - John 10:36b (NIV)

"My Father, who you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me." - John 8:54 (NIV)

The NIV cleans up John 10 as "God's Son". If you want to quibble over semantics, the KJV says "Son of God". Yes, Jesus also refers to himself as the Son of Man, a term which speaks of his dual-existance: God born into the form of a mortal. The two terms are not mutually exclusive, but different facets of the same being.

The Trinity is cleared spelled out in the end of Matthew in the "Great Commission": Go forth and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The concept of the Trinity is simple: God exists in three parts -- God in Heaven, God on earth (divine - the Holy Spirit), and God on earth (mortal - Jesus). God decides to bring Jesus into the world. Mary is made pregnant when the Holy Spirit comes upon her. Mary gives birth to Jesus, the Son of God & Man. There's no special "power" to it being the Trinity except that the NT holds over Judaic numerology where "3" is a divine number. Certainly there's nothing unbiblical about recognizing the Father, Son and Holy Spirit since Jesus himself calls it so.

EDIT: uBB clean-up

Edited, Wed Jun 30 20:45:20 2004 by Jophiel
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#28 Jun 30 2004 at 7:49 PM Rating: Decent
Half of the bible is crap, countless roman emperors have changed it to meet there own personal agenda. The king james edittion is like 60% of the bible because he didnt like 40% of it, and he added a few verses for himself, thats the version we work with today, at least sloppy translations of it, and how many kings and emporers did that before him?
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#29 Jun 30 2004 at 7:57 PM Rating: Default
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Half of the bible is crap, countless roman emperors have changed it to meet there own personal agenda. The king james edittion is like 60% of the bible because he didnt like 40% of it, and he added a few verses for himself, thats the version we work with today, at least sloppy translations of it, and how many kings and emporers did that before him?


Sure, but as a source refrence for arguments concerning a certain Galalian Carpenter who may or may not be imaginary and what he said about himself I think it's probably the gold standard.

Not that I don't fully expect Gbaji to come back and say his roomate has a copy of the Dead Sea Scroll and he has a cousin who's uncle translated it and that the words Christ says in it are diffrent and fit his random arbitrary ******** spewing.

It'd be consistent with all of his other arguments.
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#30 Jun 30 2004 at 8:04 PM Rating: Good
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Erm, most modern translations are not based off the KJV but off of earlier texts. Most notably the Codex Sindaiticus, Codex Vaticanus, Codex Alexandrius and the Pesh[/i]itta (all dating c400-450 AD) and older Hebraic texts for the Old Testament such as the Septuagint and, more recently, the Dead Sea Scrolls.

No one is going to base a modern translation off a book from the 1600s when you have versions over a thousand years older to work off of.

That's not to say the Bible is the divine word of God or any such thing, but people who decry it using the KJV as their reason don't know what they are talking about.

[i]Edited, Wed Jun 30 21:05:43 2004 by Jophiel
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#31 Jun 30 2004 at 9:37 PM Rating: Default
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Joph uses the NIV ussually from what I've noticed.
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#32 Jul 01 2004 at 12:13 AM Rating: Decent
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In my opinion, Islam was ripped off of Christianity. Allah, back in the day was just one of your average joe diety in the bedouin religion. Before Islam, Allah was rarely worshiped. He was basically unheard of until Mohammad.
So, Mohammad being a merchant, traveled. He saw what the European countries were doing and he wanted a part of it so ....the rest is history.
Isnt it weird that in Christainity we believe in the holy spirit, Jesus, and God being the same, well Judiism, Islam, and Christianity are all baisically the same.
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#33 Jul 01 2004 at 12:29 AM Rating: Good
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Some douche bag wrote:
In my opinion, Islam was ripped off of Christianity.

Actually, if you really want to get technical, you can analyze the similarities between Christianity and the Egyptian worship of the cat god whose name escapes me (Isis maybe?). Just as an example, both were killed and rose again three days later.

Sure, it's a stretch, but then again, so is the concept of religion.

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#34 Jul 01 2004 at 12:47 AM Rating: Good
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Bast was the Egyptian cat goddess, unless my AD&D Deities & Demigods education has failed me.
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#35 Jul 01 2004 at 7:45 AM Rating: Decent
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In my opinion, Islam was ripped off of Christianity

And what do you think christianity is. Jesus is about the only semi-original thing in it. The majority of beliefs are based on judaism, with a lot of influence from the pagan beliefs around Europe. As far as Islam being a copy of christianity, I would say Mohammad copied the romans not christians. If fact I would say if it wernt for the romans conversion to christianity, Jesus would just be know as a petty prophet.
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#36 Jul 01 2004 at 7:52 AM Rating: Decent
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think about Bacchus riding into town on an *** changing water to wine.

The Great Flood is in almost every culture.

There was a diety in Rome who would die and be resuurected 3 days later and people would shout through the streets "He is Risen!! He is Risen!!"

indeed most of the concepts you will find aquainted with countless passed beliefs and stories.http://northernway.org/pagandna.html



I ask myself it it indeed people copying off of old stories... or 'history' just repeating itself.
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#37 Jul 01 2004 at 8:24 AM Rating: Good
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Wow.. that website can get me my Doctor of Divinity degree in both Celtic Shamanism and Christian Goddess! Smiley: lol
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#38 Jul 01 2004 at 8:48 AM Rating: Decent
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The Christ story isn't particularly original.

There were probably a dozen or so con men with the same "son of God" story roaming around at the time.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#39 Jul 01 2004 at 9:11 AM Rating: Decent
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but the mere Idea of self sacrifice for other peoples benifit were probably not too rampant.
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#40 Jul 01 2004 at 9:24 AM Rating: Good
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but the mere Idea of self sacrifice for other peoples benifit were probably not too rampant.


That's why it got popular. I'd whole lot rather have some ******* dying for me than the other way around.
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#41 Jul 01 2004 at 9:36 AM Rating: Decent
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of course you would, that's why Jesus loves you. ^^
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#42 Jul 01 2004 at 9:36 AM Rating: Decent
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twice!

Edited, Thu Jul 1 10:37:00 2004 by Kelvyquayo
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#43 Jul 01 2004 at 9:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Y'all know that religions are just different ways of saying the same thing, right? Ok, just checking.
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#44 Jul 01 2004 at 9:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Christmas Trees are pagan as well

Jeremiah 10:2-4: "Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not."


Not to mention that Easter was originally Ostara.. the pagan Fertility holiday.. thus all the eggs and horny little bunnies...

Halloween.... I don't know How Christians can stand that one...

Candle Mass was a Pagan Day.


**** Think of it this way.

The Pagan Romans needed a way to relate the this new FAD called Christianity. The Original Cult of Christians isn't waht the Catholics are is it?
So the pagan Romans translated Dieties into the form of Saints and archetypal Mother/Father Goddess in the form of Mary and Jesus.Catholicsm today is the same as it was when it was converted from paganism.
Catholism is Paganism converted to Christianity..merged with even..
Original Christianity.. as a sect and a brotherhood.... was it's own stylee....Jesus taught a philosophy, not a religion...It became that when the government needed a new way to control the people. I'd go as far as to say that it's connections to Judeaism is purley incidental inregard that that happen to be the Religion of the area..... I think Jesus would have taught the same thing if he was born in Japan or Alaska or Pitcairn Island.



Edited, Thu Jul 1 11:00:24 2004 by Kelvyquayo
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#45 Jul 01 2004 at 10:09 AM Rating: Good
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I don't know How Christians can stand that one
Because they don't care? Regardless of whatever little Druidic origins it has, Halloween to 99.995% of the people is a day for kids to dress up like Power Rangers and the Little Mermaid and fleece the neighbors for candy. No one give's a rat's *** about its pagan origins except for the teenagers who keep Llewellyn Press in business and some cranky old woman standing on her front porch and muttering about Satan.

Honestly, it's the same for all the holidays. Everyone and their dog has been clubbed over the head with the "secret pagan origins" of Christmas and Easter. No one cares. Any Christian who puts thirty seconds of thought into it comes to the conclusion that Christmas isn't really the bona fide birthday of Jesus, it's just the day people celebrate his birth. The fact that every other culture on the planet has a Solstice or Yule celebration doesn't matter. People don't set up Christmas trees because they think Jesus commanded us to put conifers and popcorn in our living rooms, it's a purely secular method of enjoying the season.

By the way, the NIV says "a craftsman shapes it with his chisel" which would simply imply that the heathens are making wooden idols, fetishes, etc and dressing them up:
"For the customs of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter. Like a scarecrow in a melon patch, their idols cannot speak; they must be carried because they cannot walk. Do not fear them; they can do no harm nor can they do any good."

That's not to defend Christmas trees, a purely pagan rooted and currently secular symbol of the holiday, but I doubt having a six foot Fraiser fir with bubble lights is directly mentioned in the Good Book.
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#46 Jul 01 2004 at 12:19 PM Rating: Decent
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you must have never known any 'home schoolers'.
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#47 Jul 01 2004 at 1:12 PM Rating: Good
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I'm willing to bet that the number of home schooled Christian fundamentalists on this forum number zero though so they still didn't learn anything new about Easter Smiley: wink2
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#48 Jul 01 2004 at 2:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Everyone knows Santa will win! Then Ninjas place second, Jesus and Allah tie for 3rd.
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#49 Jul 01 2004 at 3:33 PM Rating: Good
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the elephant god from india would woop them both!
#50 Jul 02 2004 at 12:02 AM Rating: Decent
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the elephant god from india


Yea I have to go with that
#51 Jul 02 2004 at 12:02 AM Rating: Decent
double post

Edited, Fri Jul 2 01:03:21 2004 by Lamnethx
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