Lesbians Vs. GaysFollow

Since I don't have the time to sit here and tear your post apart word for word and laugh at you while doing so, I'll just comment on the quote above.

Premarital Sex is the cause for a lot of children being born out of wedlock but not for Sexually Transmitted Diseases. STD's are caused by not taking care of yourself with proper personal hygiene or having sex with someone who does not maintain proper personal hygiene and does not care about themselves or their partner enough to not have sex when they are infected or their disease is active. STD's have nothing to do with marital status or your belief in a Diety.

STD's are not a plague among the heathens who have committed sin for fornication before marriage, it is a cleanliness issue period. Are you that thick, that you blame everything on a spiritual level of acceptance to GOD instead of the stupidity and laziness of humans use of Free Will?

BTW upon whose law are you basing someone being born out of wedlock being a *******? Regardless of when you where conceived you are still a child of GOD, brought into this world by the Free Will of your parents chosing to have sex prior to being married under current societal law. Do you not have the same rights as any other human if you are born to unwed parents as you would if they where married? Take off them blinders you have on my friend and look at life with a more open mind.

As to the original topic, homosexuality in the physical context of the word ie... guy on guy or girl on girl fornication is revolting regardless of which sex is performing the act. However, the psychological aspect of the relationship is what always brings me to a point of confusion over acceptance of homosexuality. I do not understand the desire of a man or woman wanting to commit to a life time with a person of the same sex in a relationship that demands constant compromise, attention, time, effort and desire to make the other partner happy.

The physical aspects of the relationship are only a small part of the entire picture. Therefore MY FEELINGS on this is that a guy or gal that is homosexual should and could still establish a long term relationship with the opposite sex for the true purpose of why marriages where established in the first place, the propogation of the species and to create stability, safety and survivability in a smaller unit than that of a tribe.

I babbled on for a bit, no apologies. If it did not make sense, well read it again slower this time.

There are plenty of people in this country alone that are heterosexual and want to have children that can't and are willing to adopt that a homosexual couple would not need to adopt. However do to state and federal red tape the adoption process is a bogged down mess. This is why couples go out of country to adopt children. If the couple is naturally incapable of having a child because of thier physical incompatibility then from a logical (not emotional) standpoint a homosexual couple would not be capable of properly raising a child. Yes there are exceptions to this point of view from both sides of the arguement, just as the fact that there are exceptions to almost every rule in nature.

Again from a psychological stand, two homosexuals needing to live together and commit on a level of "survivability" I do not see the need. This same relationship can be accomplished by marrying and potentially mating with the opposite sex. Take out the variable of man's "intelligence" and the emotional trauma of societal rules the sole purpose of men and women is to eat, fornicate and propogate this homosexual connectedness issue would be irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. If a guy or gal gets their sexual fantasies fulfilled by playing with the same sex, hey, go for it on occassion. But do not base your entire future and your family line on personal lusts and desires that can be controlled.

I don't think I'm biased against gays. I think you actually have to ponder what being gay would be like to actually be able to say,"I'm not gay." Let me tell you the story. I was pretty young, very young to be reading a porno mag, and just going through them as I normally did. Reading the stories, letting the words turn into pictures as I read the stories. Came across a gay one, and read through it. Thought about this one line,"Only a man can know how to satisfy another man." Said to myself, sounds true. Then I had some gay thoughts. Didn't sound too bad at the time. Didn't stop liking girls, didn't go try to get a boyfriend or anything. But I knew that hey it would feel good if someone who knew what I wanted in a ******* gave me a *******. I asked my mom some time later,"Is it a sin to be gay?" out of the blue, she said,"Yes. It's an abomination." I thought to myself,"Damn." Then later I realized how nasty and uncomfortable it would be to have a funky *** dude on me.

All that ******** about being born gay doesn't fly with me.



People love to do the literal thing. Translate the words from Hebrew into a general one way meaning, and then argue that it contradicts itself. In general, people should not kill anything. Every country has a law against murder. Yet, pretty much every country has exceptions for self defense, capital punishment and war. Obviously there are times that require exceptions. It sucks that people are forced to these extremes with no other option than to kill. Yet, they have to be there.



Very, very, very true. I cannot stand it at all. I am not Catholic, because I disagree with MANY of the beliefs. The fact that priests can't get married in the first place just boggles me. I am with you 100% on that one.



The mindset is promiscuous sex. Just causes problems. Emotional, physical, and economical.



Been there done that.



Not the fact that they think I look good. The fact that they generally seem to harrass me, because I don't yell. I have had homosexual male friends. They obviously didn't harrass me like many do.


True, that adds to it. Like I said before, I don't see homosexuality being a huge problem these days. Earth is overpopulated.



You can't just wash off ghonerrea. You can't even tell it's there right after you get it.

In case you hadn't noticed the passage of the millenia, it is no longer necessary to make life decisions based on what would best serve a tribe of nomads or cave people. Try to keep up.

So when you feel lusts and desires, it's good and holy, but when a gay person feels lust or desire, it's wrong (revolting, I believe is you said)?

Just wanted to be clear on that point.

From a psychological stand (I didn't know you were a trained psychologist), sex plays no more or less a role in a gay relationship than a heterosexual one. I do find it interesting that that your perception of homosexuality goes no further than their genitals.

Did some pretty man talk you into tossing your ankles over your ears one night after a few too many drinks, in some passion and shame filled evening past that still has you waking up all a-quiver from time to time?

Yet you had posted earlier
and
which shows you are biased against gays.

In your own life, you may have experienced thoughts or urges to the other. Many people do. I can wholeheartedly agree to that. But being gay does not mean to just have lust once or twice, but it is their preference all times. Have you ever wondered if your perception of this topic was maybe shaded by this quote;



It did not sound like you had any massive issues until you asked another oersons opinion. And what you heard stuck with you. Would you still feel the same if you were given a compltely different answer when you asked? Would you have found it awful if she had responded "no son, many people are different. But it is not sinful to love someone no matter what gender."?

I think if this answer was diffrent from the one you got, your views would be much diffrent from what they are now. Not that you woul dhave turned gay, but I think it may have been more acceptable.
As children we learn by our parents what is right and what is wrong. It doesnt mean that what we are taught is the pure truth, but those who raise us lend us their views on life, and many of them stick with us forever. I wonder what your view would be if you had a different response.




Out of curiousity, have you ever sat down with a few gay people and asked them why they are how they are? I know some say that it was a choice, but more will tell you they always felt different. They knew they were different before they knew what sex was. I have worked with many in my line of work and all of them knew something was diffrent before they realized they were gay. I already posted about one man i know who still married a woman to be "normal" but it never felt right until he confessed and they divorced. He tried for the sake of being normal to be straight and it did not work.


This would be a nice point if we were arguing about laws in countries. But we are arguing over the laws of GOD, which are much more important if you are religious. If you wantt o go ahead and make the acceptions, do you then find it right and ok to kill gays, people who practice Wicca, people who have affairs, etc? For all of those were "exceptions" to this rule. Yet I do not see anyone out there doing these. ( And I hope I never do either).
So why is it ok to have rules that can be broken, yet the exceptions are not followed through? If it is GODs law then they should (in a religious point of view) be held higher then any countries law.

Again, it is picking what you want to believe. It's so wishy washy on this arguement that the arguement has nothing left to argue about. GOD says Do not kill. Man says ok. GOD says Kill these people though. Man says ok. GOD says forget about killing people now, just forgive everyone. Man says. ok.
Why can't GOD make up GODS mind in the first place and just have it out? It's a seesaw of stating one thing and then the other. And again, I can not stress enough how much it is questionable to have such a rule to be felt so strongly that it is one of the 10 commandments and yet it is broken all the time by GOD and man! Why bother having it there if you can break it with "justification?" and by whose justfication do we go by? GODS, or our countries?

There was a discussion earlier about the fact that all religions no matter what, are based on the exact same foundation, or root. That was that there is a higher being, one many call GOD. Yet there are so many categories and subcategories of religion. And the reason for that is Man took the foundation and interpreted it to his own needs and liking. Each subcategory is the same basic faith but with twists and turns that Man put in to make it to their liking. So the question then is is any religion free from Mans opinion? Is there any one religion out there that pure and simple truth of GOD? Once Man gets his hand into the mix and starts interpreting it to his own liking, things get muddied and unclear. The true meaning of GOD and what GOD wants is lost or diluted.

My theory on the so many paradoxes that are found easily in the Bible is because Man took down words and added or extracted here and there to better his own idea of the religion. And others took it all in faith. I question everything, and I have a hard time blindly believing in a relgious sect that can not even see or at least explain the many paradoxes its religion holds to.

I'm still waiting for someone to answer for me that can actually hold a candle to my arguements and answer the question "why" without backpedaling or picking and choosing what works only for them. I want the "why" answered to the whole, not just parts.

HAHA have fun and let us know how it goes. While youre away Ill try and rerespond quckly and such.

Scratch everything I said before and lets look at one remark.
which you agreed was your basis.


None of us "need" to have children. Yes, the population of mankind needs us as a race to continue having children. But the majority of us do not have kids because we feel we need to. We dont sit down and say "Hey. We need to have a child. We owe it to the world population." We have children because we want to. We want to show our love for our spouse and loved one. We want to raise a child with our loved one. We want to hold that soft tiny precious perfect being that we created close to our hearts. We want to watch them grow up and learn to walk and talk and question everything. We want them for them.

It is an emotional and mental decision to decide to have kids. Why is it so hard to think that people who are gay do not have those feelings as well? They may not be able to have their own child in the traditional method, but that does not mean they do not have the same needs and wants as straight people do. They are human and have the same emotions. There is nothing different.

So really, no one "needs" to adopt. Everyone who does adopt did it out of "want". I dont see why straight and gay people can not "want" the same thing and help children who "want" to be loved by someone who will cherish them.

Yanari? Long time no reason to talk
Did I strike a nerve? I think so.

I'm up to date. In case you haven't noticed, even though we are in the "21st Century" the entire world is not like it is where you live. There are still tribes and nomads in this world that need to be concerned about propogation of their ancestry. I know your little corner of utopia is the only place that counts. And according to a very liberal senator from New York it still takes a tribe to raise a family. When you look outside your sphere of influence and decided that it is not only your opinion and world view that counts, let me know. I'll stop and wait for you to catch up.



Ah. Twist and turn my words to make it sound like I'm a bigot, how progressive of you. My words where and are:



See amazing how different the meaning of that statement is when used in it's complete context. I'm also discussing the continuation of a family line. This may not be important to you, however it is important to a good portion of the global population.

From a psychological stand (I didn't know you were a trained psychologist), sex plays no more or less a role in a gay relationship than a heterosexual one. I do find it interesting that that your perception of homosexuality goes no further than their genitals.

I don't need to be a trained psychologist to make an observation. However taking classes in psychology as well as making it a point to make observations of how people interact in various envirnoments and situations does qualify a person to make an educated opinion. One does not need to hold a degree in psychology to understand psychology. Just as one does not need to be gay to understand homosexuality from a clinical or observational perspective.

You didn't read my post completely did you? You read that I find homosexual acts as revolting and immediately put your blinders up to the rest of the post. Good for you. I'm glad that you only read what you want to.

My main point is that homosexuality is not only about sex. Actually that is my entire arguement, is that homosexuality should not be only viewed as a sexual act, but one needs to understand the emotional aspects of homosexuality. And the emotional aspect of the relationship is what I have a hard time grasping. Simply because relationships of great import are established through development of commonalities with people not through sexual attraction. I do not base any relationship that I am in nor have been in on wether or not the sex is great or I'm sexually compatible with that person. Instead the relationship is built upon understanding the complexities of the other individual and their nuances. Which leads me to believe that a homosexual male or woman should be able to establish a desire to build their life long relationship with a person of the opposite gender. The act of sex is a "bi-product" of the actual relationship with the intent of mutual satisfaction of sexual urges, desires and needs. So why is it that a homosexual man or woman needs to establish a monogamous relationship with another person of the same sex? It just does not make sense.



Did some guy make you suck his di[i][/i]ck one night and slap the back of your head to make you swallow and then laughed at you? Is that why your a ****?

I'll trade insults with you or I'll trade ideas and opinions about the topic at hand. The decision is yours. I don't care one way or the other.

You live life as you want and I'll live mine the way I want. Don't force your lifestyle into my space and I won't force mine into yours. You enter an internet forum to discuss the issue be woman enough to listen to the other side completely.

K? Thx. Have an Awesome day.

I've heard both sides of the "why I'm gay" story, and the only one who said they were born gay was the type of guy who just wants attention. He has issues. Serious deep rooted issues. He liked to talk about boning teenage boys. Dude was an old nasty perv. Used to harrass me, but I let him know how I felt in front of other people, and cited occasions when he did it, and how I responded then. He didn't like that kind of attention, and he eventually stopped.

About the picking what I want to believe. The only picking I have done is that I chose to accept the fact that Jesus is the one and only son of God, and he died and rose again. The rest is my understanding of the information I have gathered while here on earth. It is used by me to live the way that I believe God wants me to. There can be no agreement on this because not only are the words of the Book translated from a language that none of us speak, into a language that none of us understand in the same way.

I said it in another thread, when you get it, you just get it. God made commandments, that none of us heard from Him personally, and they were translated from another language and given to us. The dead sea scrolls are some of the oldest texts of any book in the Bible, and the people who study them, and the language they are written in say that there are no major differences in translation from what we read today. The main thought in each sentence is there. No missing verses or flipped meanings. Maybe a few details could be obscured over such a long time, but you can understand what God wants from you, when you want to. It's like you are "choosing what you want to hear/believe" when you say it doesn't make sense. I know I'm not going to change your mind. Know that from my experiences that there is nothing you can say that will change what I do know about the spiritual realm, and the reason why we exist in the physical realm.

ok, not a frequent poster but I'm going to jump in the fray here.

I know I'm not going to change your mind. Know that from my experiences that there is nothing you can say that will change what I do know about the spiritual realm, and the reason why we exist in the physical realm.

At what point did you study theology and on what date were you annointed a priest? Have you meditated on the cosmos and determined what our purpose is for living? I'm sure there are plenty here who would love to figure that one out. The meaning of life, wow. What a revelation.

I have 2 people I've known in my life, and gotten to know well, that are gay. They didn't just wake up one day and think, "I want to be gay". It's not as simple as that. I've hung out with gays, I've gone to the restaurants they enjoy, the clubs they hang out in, and I experienced no physical attraction to them whatsoever. I couldn't change that just because I chose to.

To say that it's immoral, or wrong to act on that, and to form a homosexual relationship is pretty biased. Who are we to say that it's right or wrong to love another person? Who gave us that right? It DOESNT EXIST.

As far as the bible is concerned, you can pick and choose phrases all day long that suit your needs, for one it's the story of Jesus dying and being brought back to life. For another, it's the dead sea scrolls, which btw, account for a very small portion of the bible.

Are we to take the passages from Mathew? Gouge out our eyes because we looked upon someone lustfully? Cut off our hand because we took something that did not belong to us?

It is not our place, nor the place of any religious body to say that it is ok or not ok for 2 competent adults to love one another.

When you get a PhD in Psychology, you can analyze gay men and determine that to have been born gay, they must just have issues. Until then, you're just another bigot.

I'm a moron... :( I was thinking words but wasn't typing them.. I was in a hurry..my bad.. What I meant was.. having sex in a committed relationship does not decrease a chance of having an unwanted pregnancy but it will decrease the chance of contracting a STD... So my question was... So how does the AIDS virus spread.... It's spread through the fact that people want to have many different sex partners.. ( no commitment )and the one of the strongest commitments we have is marriage.. I hope thats better... again I apologize for that... Again i'm not putting anyone's sexual practices down in this post.. just stating my observations

Ok Im going to address a few people here :)
Stok



Stok, I think this is one point of the topic you and I will have to agree to disagree. I am a strong believer of bringing children into the world only if they are wanted. I am assuming you are not the type of person who I will use as an example, but I know many children, and was a child (on one end at least) that was not "wanted". Not all parents act like their child is a blessing to them and for me that really pains me in a physical manner. So lets drop this part because I think both you and I are adult enough to know we won't agree on this, and it is a completely seperate issue from what we are debating on.




What is hard about this is that you are very casually asking for people to have sex with someone who they do not have a lasting bond with, in order to satisfy their needs for children.
A. You are asking someone to form a relationship for the sake of children when there is no need, since many children are still out there waiting for loing homes.

B. YOu can not force one to do something they do not wixh to do. If someone told you in order to get XYZ (work with me here) and the only way to do it was to do something that felt very unnatural and uncomortable to you personally, would you do it when you had other options available? Doubt it. SO why do you think it is ok to believe if anyone not straight wants a child they must do something unnatural and uncomfortable? It also has the sound of unwanted sex.



I dont know one person who bases their loving relationship by sex alone, gay or straight. In fact, I dont know one couple, gay or staright, where sex is one of the biggest factors in their relationship.
Having a loving relationship does not need to be based around sex. It is a perk to us, and something we should enjoy, but my relationship would not crumble if I found out my husband and I could no longer have sex together. I have a very strong feeling many of any sexual prefrence would agree, if they have been in a lasting, loving relationship.

As for a gay house being an ideal household, by what basis are you using? I could easily say the exact same thing, and probably have a higher statistical number of broken hetrosexual homes. To me, the ideal enviorment for a child is not whether the couple raising him or her is staright or gay, but if the couple loves and cherishes the child, and teaches the child what they can to make the child a responsible, mature, levelheaded adult.


Again, something you and I will have to completely disagree until science comes out with hard core evidence either way.


Laviont



1. How many gay men have you actually sat down and talked with about this topic?

2. You're basing your ideas on choice by 1 man, and a creep at that. If I wanted to base my thoughts and opinions on one person who was a creep I could easily get the wrong impression of just about ny topic you want to discuss.




Laviont, you have posted time and time again many times where you contradict yourself when it comes to your beliefs. It is why I called you out today in the first place. Believe what you will, but many people here will back me up that you dont stick to one thought process and you bounce around in your belief system. If you feel the need to look away and tell yourself you do not pick and choose, be my guest if it helps you to sleep at night. But you and I know, as does everyone else who has read your posts on religion, that you constantly pick and choose what works for you. You and I going back and forth time and time again will not change our opinions. Just understand I know you for what you are, and personally, when you bring up anything about religion in other topics I lose interest in what you have to say because you are not a true believer in your own religion. I have deep respect for anyone who truely believes any religion so long as they practice what they preach. You do not, and when it comes to anything religious, I am very sorry, but I have lost my respect for you in that manner. Nothing personal. Im sure you are a great guy. Its just this one spot.



Really, it's not. I have taken the time to read the scriptures. I have read, and reread much of the book. I have talked to, listened, researched my questions, and I have yet to find a person who knows their stuff to give me a clear cut answer. No one can do it. All I ask is a simple why. The best I get are vague arguments with no clear cut answer.

I have looked at the scriptures from many angles. I grew up in a christian church. I know all the stories, all the beliefs, all the symbols, and laws, yet not one thing in the religion, not one single person, can answer the "why". And if notone person can answer they "why" then why should I believe when I find too much wrong and it does not sit right with me.

You said you get it. I'm taking this to mean the spiritual sense of peace. Guess what? I get it too. I dont get it through Christ, but I am more comfortable in my skin, with who I am, and how I live my life, because I get it. Just from somewhere else. It doesnt make me better then you and it doesnt make you better then me. Im happy that we both "get it". Just please do not try to tell me my getting it is wrong. It may be for you but you're not my judge.

Amelique



Yes there is.

You can get AIDS from a blood transfusion.

You can get AIDS from a dirty needle.

Devil's Advocate at your service M'Lady Deadsidedeamon.

Lady I respect and your opinions so don't take this personal.

B. YOu can not force one to do something they do not wixh to do. Yes. You can force anyone to do something they do not wish to do. It happens everyday, from buying a product in a store, to a pimp forcing a woman to have sex with a Jon.

If someone told you in order to get XYZ (work with me here) and the only way to do it was to do something that felt very unnatural and uncomortable to you personally, would you do it when you had other options available?

Now this all depends on how badly I wanted XYZ. Have you ever seen the TV show Fear Factor? If so then enough said, if not I'll explain in more detail.

Doubt it. Human greed is more powerful than desire for comfort.

SO why do you think it is ok to believe if anyone not straight wants a child they must do something unnatural and uncomfortable? Sorry sweet heart but having sex with a person of the opposite sex IS natural. Having sex with a person of the same sex is unnatural. The lesbians that I know are willing to have sex with a man so that they can become pregnant, this does not mean they are bi-sexual in thier minds, it means they are achieving a result they desire through "natural" means. Their words not mine.

It also has the sound of unwanted sex.

No it sounds like accomplishing a goal in life by using the tools and resources found in nature to produce off spring with your "blood" flowing throw it.

One of the girls that have worked for me in the past approached me and asked me if she should have sex with her gay best friend so that he could have the child. She of course said no. But she was asking for comfort in making the correct decision.

Take the perfect world blinders off for a few minutes and remember that the world is various shades of Grey. What shade you believe holds the truth varies from experience to experience.

There are multiple answers to each of these issues, it all comes down to your personal beliefs and what your desired out come is. Life is a game of compromises and acceptance. Once you realize that GOD has given each of us the free will to make up our OWN minds on the rights and wrongs the closer you become to understanding WHY. Don't let another persons lack of understanding why keep you from pursuing the answer that YOU are looking for. The answer to WHY is internal, it is not a complex issue it is a matter of personal belief and trust.

WHY? Because GOD gave YOU and everyone else the opportunity to choose between him and the world. Or as I tell people that ask this question as my SON did the other day, WHYNOT.

It reminds me of the question that new Christians are told to ask people when the new Christian leaves from church..."If you where to die today would you go to heaven?" My reply is "That is for GOD to know and me to find out. But I am sure I know the answer already."

Back to the Gay issue though. If they want to have children there are many options available to them and establishing a relationship with another of the same sex is not for all of them. Those who chose that route, then good for them and I hope that someday they can adopt. However, if it where up to me, that would not be an option for them.