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Teiwaz = win?Follow

#1 Apr 21 2010 at 6:14 AM Rating: Decent
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I posted this also in the blm forum. I am shocked nobody pointed this out yet:
http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3681710&postcount=1101
http://forums.ffxiclopedia.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24442

Quote:
I can confirm this. I have the finished Teiwaz of fire path Magic dmg +3 offers a slight boost over HQ staves.. however it seems you only get NQ staff accuracy.


The same probably goes for the Macc+3 version. The boost seems to be 5% better then HQ staffs. But this boosts just one part. Either Magic dmg or Magic accuracy. The great thing for brd is: we have no use for Magic dmg +3. So we just got a more accurate version of a Terra's Staff or Apollo's Staff. Depending on which one you pick. The only thing you need to get this is time.

I am not sure which one I want either:
Teiwaz Macc+3 light based for lullaby and finale? I still need Apollo's Staff for charm then.
Or:
Teiwaz Macc+3 earth based for elegy and Lightning Threnody. Would be nice to go /whm instead of /blm for certain HNM fights but I doubt a 5% boost will let me go brd/whm instead of brd/blm.

You still have to keep NQ versions of the elemental staffs because sometimes you want the cure potency or -Physical damage taken.
#2 Apr 21 2010 at 7:07 AM Rating: Good
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The biggest obstacle for a BRD-is-my-only-non-melee-job player (like me) is going to be this guy. Killing blow with 50+ light based damage. That's the main reason I haven't started on one.
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#3 Apr 21 2010 at 7:24 AM Rating: Good
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You could probably surmount the light damage requirement as BRD using the Starburst staff WS with the Teiwaz. I believe I remember someone saying that finishing a mob with Garland of Bliss -- a light-based WS -- contributed to the kill total.

Of course, bizarrely, Starburst is light/dark, so it might be a stab in the dark...
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#4 Apr 21 2010 at 7:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Only thing I can think of if you are brd only. Use brd/whm or brd/pld. Both get banish 2. Pick a monster that is weak to light like undead. You get a free damage multiplier of 1.5 (150% damage). Spriggans work well for this. No status effects from Spriggans. Brd/pld gets auto-refresh and undead killer as a nice bonus.
Macro in moldy, MND, and macc gear, eat MND food (goblin mush pot is +10 MND). Toss in light threnody if needed. I have not tried this myself but it should work on EP and DC monsters.

And at this point your Teiwaz has light affinity+1. Which means it is equivalent to a NQ light staff. Might even be able to pull this off with banish 1 to save MP.

*edit*
oeps you have to kill beast type monsters. Undead wont work. Sad.

Edited, Apr 21st 2010 3:55pm by Breaze
#5 Apr 22 2010 at 5:11 PM Rating: Decent
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I have nothing to add to this thread other than that if you're getting one of those earth acc Teiwaz, please don't get rid of your Earth/Terra's Staff entirely. If anything, sell Terra's and buy back Earth. Continue to macro this in after Elegy completes casting.

That -20% phys damage taken is too precious to forego entirely, especially for a job that is typically puller. I am usually the one that has to curesink into BRDs that soak up way too much damage on pulls, so I'm saying this in my own best interests as well as yours.

This might be a no-brainer to most, but you have no idea how many WHMs I've met over the years who thought they could sell their Noble's Tunic as soon as they got their relic body (at least this was mostly back in the days when Noble's still had decent value; nowadays it's chump change in comparison). The Auto Refresh isn't the only purpose for Noble's, much like the Elegy acc isn't the only purpose for Earth/Terra's.


In any case, as far as the trial goes, as long as you nab EP mobs, it actually is not TOO insanely difficult to land unresisted subbed magic, even Banish; you may still be able to do 50+ even with Banish 1 if you load up on enough MND.

Edited, Apr 22nd 2010 7:18pm by Fynlar
#6 Apr 22 2010 at 10:34 PM Rating: Decent
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I think I'll stick with Apollo's/Terra's, and work on a Teiwaz that works for my mages at 75 (Cure potency +15%)
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#7 Apr 23 2010 at 7:52 AM Rating: Good
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Yes you right Sakka. After thinking it over. I decided to go with the cure potency +15% staff. More cure power is nice to have and works on all cures. Landing elegy and lullaby is no problem anyway. And if it is a problem I am /blm or the monster is 100% immune.

Edited, Apr 23rd 2010 3:52pm by Breaze
#8 Apr 26 2010 at 5:06 PM Rating: Good
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Another option would be to get both a cure potency staff and an elemental accuracy staff, then just use the elemental acc staff for brd/nin and/or brd/blm, and leave it at home or in your satchel when you aren't using it.
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#9 Apr 26 2010 at 7:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Meh, I'll unlock it on WHM for BRD. Smiley: grin
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#10 Apr 26 2010 at 11:25 PM Rating: Default
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I don't really see the point for BRD staves for these. For anything you need to land lullaby/elegy on, you'll generally have a capped landrate on it if you're gear is at all decent or your landrate will be bad enough that /blm is needed. The 10Macc you get from it will rarely be that useful for the amount of work put in for it.
#11 Apr 27 2010 at 7:28 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
For anything you need to land lullaby/elegy on, you'll generally have a capped landrate on it if you're gear is at all decent or your landrate will be bad enough that /blm is needed.


Pretty much that usually, but still, some people are in some different circumstances. For instance, I can't merit singing/wind. This means that there are things that are still going to resist me, but not necessarily to the point where I need /BLM to land it. More accuracy would still be helpful.

As for gear, well, this is just one of those ways you can help to make your gear "at all decent" >_>
#12 Apr 27 2010 at 11:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Fynlar wrote:
Quote:
For anything you need to land lullaby/elegy on, you'll generally have a capped landrate on it if you're gear is at all decent or your landrate will be bad enough that /blm is needed.


Pretty much that usually, but still, some people are in some different circumstances. For instance, I can't merit singing/wind. This means that there are things that are still going to resist me, but not necessarily to the point where I need /BLM to land it. More accuracy would still be helpful.

As for gear, well, this is just one of those ways you can help to make your gear "at all decent" >_>


In the time it takes for you to kill all the monsters with conditions you could easily farm enough to get items with a collective way above 5-10MAcc that should also put you in the clear for resists. Even my unmerited NQ BRD(NQ ele/errant/AF/Nereid/melody etc) mule was able to sleep pretty much anything sleepable in things like Dynamis and Einherjar and against Mamools.

Edited, Apr 28th 2010 12:20am by Overburn
#13 Apr 28 2010 at 5:25 AM Rating: Good
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I wouldn't go so far as to say that there is little difference in a gimped BRD and a well geared/merited one. A lot of people don't understand that a half-duration song is a resist - but when considering if their gear is good or not they only gauge it based on full resist situations.

Credit this to the fact that we can always refresh the common debuffs and the fast-paced influence on speedy merit parties (where a Colibri shouldn't be asleep for more than 15 seconds in the event of a half-resist) and you'll quickly realize that a lot of people have a general misconception that as long as their song lands it didn't get resisted.

However, if the game is to land a song (which it usually is) regardless of partial-resist, then that just lowers the overall MACC requirement. I can guarantee that if elegy or threnody was weaker when resisted, MACC would be more of a concern - but its not.

The staff is a huge task, and the fact you can only (for now) pick one is a limitation in itself. I don't think it should be the first thing an under-geared non-fulltime BRD should get. Even then, its difficult to put it up against other useful staves if you play other jobs. You would be serviced better by picking up better gear and merit (if you can), because its only 10MACC over HQ staves and there are several pieces of BRD gear that can do the same for BRD.

This staff makes hard-core BRD's hesitate and consider which to pick very carefully - This is the reason I wouldn't recommend under-geared BRD's to run out and grab one, not simply because the differences between the two are slim (they aren't, they just are not noticeable or a huge concern).

Edited, Apr 28th 2010 7:26am by Asmoranomar
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#14 Apr 28 2010 at 7:37 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
The staff is a huge task, and the fact you can only (for now) pick one is a limitation in itself.


This isn't really true; you can make as many as you want. The restriction is that you can only carry one if you want to macro it. They can still be manually swapped.

Granted, it's probably harder to do the manual swaps with quick spells like Elegy/Lullaby than it would be with BLM nukes. Still though, unless you anticipate a situation where you may need to cast both Elegy and Lullaby regularly, and having accuracy issues with BOTH of them, you wouldn't need to carry both of them around. Just stash the one that is less important for your situation, or less likely to face resistance issues.
#15 Apr 28 2010 at 3:00 PM Rating: Good
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The fact that you *can* make more than was was very much implied. I don't think there was ever any doubt in this entire discussion. However, it does break macros (as it's been stated many times) and also renders the alternative uses that HQ staves grant (also covered).

You've already covered the nonsense that goes along with casting 2 second songs and wasting time to equip specific staves. Dancing around the staff swap for cure spells wouldn't be to hot either. Simple fact of the matter is, even though SE allows us to make multiple Teiwaz, they are in essence still 'rare' to us because of the how difficult it is to implement multiple versions of it.

Sure, I could leave one in my locker in case I need it when I switch duties - but ****, If I have to take that route, I'm still going to want to have my HQ staves on fallback just incase I need them anyways. That's really no different than muling/dboxing/lockering other rare items I want duplicates of (you know...for times when you want to keep one and sell another, or holding on to multiple pop items...etc).



Edited, Apr 28th 2010 5:01pm by Asmoranomar
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#16 Apr 28 2010 at 6:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
The fact that you *can* make more than was was very much implied.


To me, it wasn't. You might want to use a different word than "pick" which is somewhat ambiguous.
#17 Apr 29 2010 at 5:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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Your arguing semantics then, because even if you misunderstood - your still going to only want to "pick" one. Whether you "Pick" to upgrade one, or "Pick" one out of your moghouse; it doesn't matter.

Not to mention that the entire thread is centered around which one to pick because 'omgzzzz i cant macrozzz when i have more than one'. If you didn't get that, then you obviously didn't read the OP, the links posted, or the entire thread. Seriously, stop being difficult.

Edited, Apr 29th 2010 8:02am by Asmoranomar
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BRD/WHM - Wind Buff Setup
BRD/WHM - Wind Debuff Setup
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BRD/WHM - String Debuff Setup
#18 Apr 29 2010 at 9:16 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Not to mention that the entire thread is centered around which one to pick because 'omgzzzz i cant macrozzz when i have more than one'.


Uhh, no it isn't. Nowhere in the OP's post does it mention the macro conflict problem, and it's only passively alluded to in one of the replies further down (by GTailBot) and it's not even a direct address of the issue (meaning, someone who doesn't know about the Teiwaz problem probably wouldn't even know what he was talking about)

Quote:
Seriously, stop being difficult.


Seriously, just admit you worded it poorly. It's not like I just accused you of being the Antichrist.

If I got the wrong idea from your post, it's not hard to fathom that someone else might as well. I am just trying to prevent misinformation.

Edited, Apr 29th 2010 11:19am by Fynlar
#19 Apr 29 2010 at 9:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Read the links posted in the op. That is what they are there for. The fact that you can obtain more than one was clearly stated multiple times. There was no grey area. If you aren't going to take the time to read the information and you misunderstand what I wrote (I used the word "pick" intentionally btw, it wasn't a poor choice of words), then that isn't my problem.

Its like that proverb about bringing a horse to the water, but you can't make it drink.

I mean the op does clearly make a contrast between which two weapons to get. If there was not any previous understanding, then the first post should have gone like this: "Why not get both?"

If this isn't the core of the discussion and it wasn't implied from the start, then what was the point of the entire thread? Why was there even a choice in the OP of which to pick from? The only answers I can think of is "I didn't read the threads and I thought it was rare or you could only get one." or "Obviously he's implying that it would be difficult to use more than one, so which is better?"

Edit: Someone just informed me that the BG link takes them to a single post. Not sure why, but it takes me to the entire thread on both of my PC's. Also I do not think your trying to accuse me of being Antichrist, but **** pick a battle that actually has some sort of significance. It doesn't change a single thing in the scope of the discussion and ends up being an enormous derail. In the scope of what was discussed thus far, your still only going to want to "Pick" one.

Edited, Apr 29th 2010 12:09pm by Asmoranomar
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BRD/RDM - Song Cast Time Setup
BRD/WHM - Wind Buff Setup
BRD/WHM - Wind Debuff Setup
BRD/WHM - String Buff Setup
BRD/WHM - String Debuff Setup
#20 May 06 2010 at 4:06 AM Rating: Good
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Fynlar wrote:
Uhh, no it isn't. Nowhere in the OP's post does it mention the macro conflict problem, and it's only passively alluded to in one of the replies further down (by GTailBot) and it's not even a direct address of the issue (meaning, someone who doesn't know about the Teiwaz problem probably wouldn't even know what he was talking about)

Oh, my post in this thread was in direct response to SakkaofValefor and Breaze. They sounded like they were choosing to only go with one Teiwaz as the cure potency+15%. I was more focused on suggesting situations where you could use a Teiwaz with increased macc where the cure potency+15% wouldn't be of any use, such as /nin and /blm.
I myself went for the cure potency +15% first, but if I'm looking to round out something like a brd/nin gearset for lullaby, I might end up getting the light based macc Teiwaz sometime in the future.

Also curious if you spelled my name TailBot to be snarky towards me (I cannot fathom why you would; I don't think I've ever slighted you before). It's spelled Talbot like the clothing store. >.>
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