MythicFollow

http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/ffxi-advanced-player-discussion/62297-completed-relic-mythic-weapons-list-48.html#post2488567

discuss.


Me: "God Damnit!" (referring to the effects...)

I've been flip-flopping on whether to upgrade Carnwenhan (I think I spelled that wrong) and pimp my BRD out further, or go for Vajra since THF is my "fun" job and invest the time in something I like to goof around with.

This info just sealed that decision. Too much effort/money for a 24-second boost, imo.

(Of course, if I had a Gjallarhorn I'd prolly feel differently... but I don't. :3)

Edited, Feb 4th 2009 2:10pm by Etain

Eh, it's not like the boost is worthless. But yes, I agree it's totally not worth the price. I think if it were something on the level of Troubadour or if it affected potency in any way it would be very intriguing but in it's current form it just doesn't seem worth the effort.

Keeping stuff slept for 42 seconds is pretty sexy though.

Edited, Feb 4th 2009 9:00pm by detlef

Now that I've let this simmer a bit, I'll give my reasons why this Mythic fails...

Carnwenhan
(Dagger) All Races
DMG:29 Delay:186
MACC+10
Increases Song Duration
"Morant Rime" Aftermath:
MACC / ACC / DblAtk
75 BRD

1) The damage rating on this weapon is very poor. While I know SE said they didn't want this item to compete with relic, lets look a bit closer...

Mandau
(Dagger) All Races
DMG:39 Delay:176
ATK+20
"Mercy Stroke"
Add: Poison
75 RDM/THF/BRD
Hidden: Tripple's Damage
Hidden: "Mercy Stroke" +Crit Hit%

As we can see, BRD Mythic is nowhere close to Relic. Lets now take a look at one of the better weapons - Blau Dolch:

Blau Dolch
(Dagger) All Races
DMG:26 Delay:178
Latent Effect: DMG:33
Lv. 72 WAR / BLM / RDM / THF / PLD / DRK /
BST / BRD / RNG / SAM / NIN / DRG / SMN / SCH
Latent: TP<100 & WS - ACC+5 ATK+10

Myhtic cant even touch this. Barring all other effects asside, what incentive do we have in using this weapon? BRD is not a melee, but I know full well what happens when you combine a low damage, high delay weapon with low skill, low accuracy and low attack - a bunch of wiffs and 0 dmg hits for 0 TP gain...

Come on SE - Would it really be that game breaking to make BRD Mythic have a DMG rating of 33-39 or lower delay? Give us a reason to attack with it.


2) The MACC bonus on this item sucks. Recent testing has shown that, at worse case, HQ staves give a MACC bonus of +15. A majority of the time, this bonus will be MACC+30. Keep in mind, this bonus is granted permanently provided the proper staff/spell combination is used. Additionally, there are several items in the game that BRD can obtain that can give a MACC bonus of +10 or more: Alkuralops, Chanter's Staff (conditional), HQ Staves, NQ Staves (conditional), Antares, etc. There are more, but those are easily the more popular ones I can come up with off the top of my head. Again...Barring any other effects on the item, there are a multitude of items that are better than Mythic.

Come on SE - Would it really be that game breaking to make BRD Mythic have a natural MACC rating of +20-30?. Give us a reason to debuff with it.

3) TP Bonuses other than MACC is a joke. Let me ask you something - If I was a Melee, and I had the option of giving myself ACC, ATK or Double ATK at will wouldn't that be a dream come true? Mythic is this dream come true. As a Mage, it would be just as great to see a weapon that can give me M.ACC, M.ATK(or Potency), or Refresh at will. But no...our Mythic has the same bonuses that Melee get (minus one or two) - Which says only one thing: Melee Mythic will always be better than Mage Mythic weapons.

Come on SE - Would it really be that game breaking to make a flexable Mage weapon with TP Bonuses similar to Mythic/Relic but Designed for Magic Users?

4) Finally - The Increased Song Duration bonus. Pure Insult. The fact that SE thinks +24 seconds added to song duration compensates for having to melee (to gain TP bonuses) or the cost to obtain (which is insane as-is) makes me furious. If songs were restricted in the number of times they can be casted (think dice rolls for cor), they might have a case - but we are talking about increasing the duration of spells can can be applied an infinite number of times. I could spam songs all day long and never have to worry about them wearing off. A good BRD doesn't wait till songs wear, they refresh them before it happens. So, what good is the extra +24 seconds?

Come on SE - Would it really be that game breaking to make the Increases Song Duration double?

...

Infact, had SE actually Doubled the Song Duration, I would have been happy to have all the existing stats on the weapon left as is - as it would allow an interesting transformation of BRD to become a light DD for events. The way it stands now, the dagger fails in every aspect and can easily be replaced (or worked around).

SE said Mythic weapons are supposed to enhance job performance. Looking at BRD Mythic and what needs to be done to benefit from its effects, I can only see one thing: BRD Mythic actually degrades job performance by focing us to melee to obtain less than ordanary results obtinable from other sources.

Finally, let me say that there's always a chance SE added another hidden effect we haven't discovered. If so, I will re-evaluate this weapon. I'm also aware of I.Wing tactics and the like, but compare it with any other decent item in the game of similar value and you'll quickly realize its futile and actually worse using Mythic. An ultimate weapon should be a little more 'ultimate' and less 'lets figure out a way to make it less sh*tty'.

Edit: Also to mention: As it stands right now, we are not limited by equipping any item 'full time'. Meaning, we can swap staves and the like. By using this weapon in the way that SE intended, we are restricted even further by our inability of unequipping this weapon. This should be known, but unequipping Mythic reduces our TP to 0 and removes any TP related bonsuses. By locking this slot, we are also losing the ability for other, more creative uses such as: +HP builds for Minstrel Ring Latent, an HMP staff to recover MP, using Chanters Staff to reach the next buff tier, Using Tallifer's Dagger to increase String range, and - of course - using Elemental staves to cast accurate debuffs.

Edited, Feb 5th 2009 8:11am by Asmoranomar

Yes I'm aware of how the TP Bonus works and I am aware that it provides a MACC bonus. Point being however, is you *HAVE* to WS to get the enhanced bonus, you can't just wear it. Elemental Staves on the other hand, you can equip it and forget it. I was writing that post in regards to the MACC bonus alone, without the TP Bonus applied. This actually is worse than just wearing staves alone.



A MACC Bonus of anything from +15-20 would still put it below to on-par with HQ Staves under most conditions. The MACC bonus would have to be 23+ to break any combinations Staff/Grip. Personally, it would have to be 25-30+ before I even *think* for it to put myself in danger to lol melee as well as considering the cost of upgrading it.

Also keep in mind that a MAJORITY of your resists vs HNM's have little to do with your actuall MACC total, as the biggest factor toward resist rates at that point is level difference. Even if the dagger + TP bonus came out ahead of Staff/Grip combo, your not going to notice a huge difference.



Keep in mind that melee'ing requires an entirely different build for BRD any melee. You'll have to trade off all your CHR/MACC/Skill gear for Skill/DEX/ACC/STR/ATK gear. Any good melee BRD also knows you can swap between melee and mage sets when your casting. But they will also tell you that if you can't use a good damage weapon, and your not doing your 'real' job, that using mythic wouldn't be considered 'Enhancing' your job (ie: whats the point?).

Or another way of saying it. "I build melee BRD around Blau and Damage, why on earth would I wear Mythic and call myself a DD BRD while trying to be more Mage like?"

Well lets take a backstep into what your justifying then.



Based on what you just said -

Mythic is NOT the ultimate weapon, and you'd have to carry staves anyways.

Mythic is only useful for events where the requirement for BRD is not as important or demanding: Events where BRD already melees and no one cares (Campaign), or where you already have a BRD that can chain pull mobs thus the other brd is just another (poor) DD (2xBRD merits), or the mob is not all that difficult to begin with, so it doesn't really matter what role you have (lesser NMs).


Wait a minute...

THIS is the weapon that is supposed to revolutionize how jobs are played by enhancing the fundamental aspects of each job? Some-part time, can't be used for anything serious, 'hey guys, i'm kind of a melee now (lulz)' weapon?

And I have to do what to obtain it?

I hear you, I really do. But your making my original case THAT much more evident which was:



Edit: Also, keep in mind that the roles/examples you provided above - Your job is no longer BRD. Your a DD. If your going that route, your not going to want to use Mythic for DD.

Edited, Feb 6th 2009 7:20am by Asmoranomar

I've said my piece, and I think your very creative in trying to come up with a reason to melee with it. In the end, it hinges on one thing - how much MACC your able to obtain with TP, which we don't even know.

I base my assumptions on ACC Totals gained from the TP Bonus on Mythic. The fact that the ACC bonus seen from Mythic has been from 10 (+0% TP) to 20 (+99% TP) generally leads me to suspect that the MACC bonus will be similar. This would mean that Mythic is only on par with HQ staves (at 199% TP) and inferrior to Staff/Grip combinations. However, I could be completely wrong and it could something totally different. It could be +50 and I could be standing in awe dumbfounded. Perhaps this is your vision, and maybe this is why we dont see things equally (actually it is, since its apparent you have more faith in overcomming staff bonuses than I do.)

We could go around in circles like this all day though, so I'm just going to leave it at that.