Killer Instict is up for Enhancement ~ very niceFollow

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/19949-Adjustments-to-Circle-type-Job-Abilities?p=267343#post267343

I really hope they don't change this idea before they implement it.

A 5 min recast, 3 min duration makes this Tremendously more useful. It means you can keep that damage boost up 60% of the time instead of the previous 20% of the time at best.

Also, Gausape means that BST are double dipping on the killer effect boost.
+15 killer effect boost is standard, if they add 2/additinal merit it would be another +8. so +23 Killer effect for 60% of the time instead of the current best of potentially 20% of the time.

Well, we have +10 from our tier 2 killer effects already. (+8 from tier 1). 5x killer effects merits means +5. So, we would get +38 killer effect using merits and NO GEAR.
I keep killer shortbow on which would bring me up to a normal +40 killer effects. (monster helm +2 for another +5 killer effects in primal rend or maybe other WS's).

Thats +20% damage. which is separate from the +15% built into the circle effect already. I still have questions about how these interact. My last test showed +40% damage when using +37 killer effect and the +15% to damage from killer instinct.

It looks alot easier to keep an almost capped killer effects+ trait (caps at +50) and keep them up much longer.

Just making the recast a base 5 min and the duration 3 min, means we can get a big damage boost alot of the time w/ the right pet. Adding killer effects (better than current tier 1 killer effect boost) to this will make it that much better.

Either way it gives us a large damage boost. We are in a position to take much better advantageof this that other jobs getting their circle effects buffed. They only have killer for 1 mob family each(arcana, dragon, undead, demon) We have 7 mob families.

thanx. yeah, I actually had that cleared up before, but forgot. sleepy brain going too many directions.

nonsense. I carry lots of jugs around with me. most are quite acceptable dd (gerard and raphie being the exceptions). I really should test out Louise and Julio since the update... I have the jugs sitting in satchel, and I'm sure no one has bothered and most probably haven't remembered...

The only family we don't have a good option for at level 99 is an aquan. need a fish or something to take intimidate those amorphs away.

besides, this is also exactly the kind of place an experienced bst can show their worth vs a bandwagon bst.

Edited, Jan 25th 2012 10:59pm by Xilk

Don't forget Gerard has corrosive ooze which is a huge damage boost to everyone in the alliance if you are fighting tougher mobs.

my aren't you positive...

and your wrong. you're spouting unqualified negative drivel.

you deliberately ignoring or just didn't catch it? julio's attack speed has been increased and they fixed louise. (had stats from previous funguar).

So how sucky are they now? oh! thats right, no one has even bothered to check.

you don't even know how the dd on the pets really compares.

also Louise was never too bad. Not quite as good as the bunny but I loved using her anyway. Only thing is/was she is hard to get from the AH. Also I'd like to see the parses done on overall damage with boost from Killer Instinct before folks declare it isn't worth using anything but a tiger or w/e

Edit:
Actually, this gets me thinking of another way to compare pets that may be more useful.
I think I'm going to start collecting parses of pet performance. I think there are a few here interested in this. If we just agree upon a few benchmarks like level level of prey mob and defense, we could gather some parses and determine some benchmark comparisons for jug pet attack and def. compare them to mid-range def and high def mobs and see how the dd output is.

I would only want to collect data on level 99 pets. I would want the level range of the prey and defense range also. and then just aggregate stuff for each jug. That might be a simpler approach to it. using a parser is something many of us use.

Please let me know if you have good ideas for benchmark standards, mobs, or data organization methods.

Except pet damage is only a small part of overall damage on anything worthwhile. The extra damage from killer instinct will blow away the difference in pet damage.

well if you don't get killer effects on the prey you don't have to worry about not using your best jug... so sh^t is situational, amirite? I am quick to complain but even I won't complain about a buff to one of our JA, even if it does take some juggling to make use of it.

Dang, the killer effect adjustment would've been nice...

One thing that I wonder (because it's not explicitly stated, but it would coincide with every other Circle JA adjustment) is will they follow through with the increase from 1min to 3min in terms of basic duration? I feel like having 4 minutes out of every 5 with Killer Effect Circle potential screams insta-5/5 for me and my playstyle. If they leave it at 1 minute, though... ; ;

As for Feral Howl, 20% more accuracy actually doesn't appeal to me. I'll miss the extended duration with Monster Jackcoat+2, but it lands almost all the time on EP~DC mobs anyway. HMMMM~ I mean, this isn't gonna make it land on worthwhile NMs, so I... dunno. XD I predict it's gonna be a claiming tool/Dynamis proc still. And an occasional stun when you're doing Magian Trials or something, haha.

Hey, here's another question, if they had kept the old Killer Instinct adjustment model, do you think that the +8 Killer Effect at 5/5 would've applied to just the Beastmaster, or to all affected party members? I was never clear on that. :o

Looking at this new outline... what are you gonna merit?

Edit: I just read your comments on FFXIAH and the Official Forums - does Feral Howl miss that often on EPs for you? Maybe I have crazy luck, cause it lands at least 95% of the time for me. Even when I did like 50 Feral Howls in a row when testing the Monster Jackcoat+2 on EM~T Bluffalo, it landed 100% of the time. I never had to repeat a test because of Feral Howl accuracy.

I feel like some mobs are more prone to it than others though... I didn't think it would be so effective against Skeleton-type mobs, but it pretty much always lands on them, too. Trying to think of a mob type that it doesn't work that well on... Does it land on UFOs? Well, anyway...

Edited, Feb 16th 2012 9:05am by Bookmarku

Ah, I edited my last post asking you about Feral Howl. :D Thanks for the reply.~

Do you solo Dynamis? Or do you party with other folks who are DNC main and/or DNC subjob? The reason I ask is because Feral Howl won't work during Violent Flourish's stun duration. I always curse my duo partner (and slap my own wrist) when I Feral Howl right when he VFs, because it will miss 100% of the time if the mob is already stunned by any means.

Likewise, a terror'd mob can't be stunned by Violent Flourish (though in this case, you can at least PROC with VF on a Feral Howled mob).

Edit: If I'm wrong in my assumption about your Dynamis partying situation and your knowledge of VF/FH interaction, my apologies - it could be that we just have very different Feral Howl experiences. o _o

Edit2: Those translations that were posted on BG, which gave us insight into the Relic+2 enhancements, hinted that the Killer Instinct boost was +4 seconds per merit. Anyone able to confirm that it's a 20 second extension at 5/5 with Monster Helm +2?

Edited, Feb 16th 2012 10:21am by Bookmarku

Haha, wicked, I love when those happen.

You guys probably already saw this, but someone on the official forums pointed out that the omitted duration info was edited into the BST Job Adjustments Community Rep post.

"Duration increased from one minute to three. (revised February 17)"

So 4 mins out of every 5, with capped merits and enhanced Monster headpiece. :)

Edited, Feb 18th 2012 5:43pm by Bookmarku

Yes, you're right. :D 3:40 with 5/5 merits.

Monster Helm +2 is now one of my favorite relic pieces, lawl. Bumping that to 4 minute duration is so awesome. ; ; <3

Edited, Feb 19th 2012 8:50am by Bookmarku

We actually don't know how Monster Helm is working. It could be +4 seconds per level, or it could be +1/15 duration per level. The AF1 feet for Circle jobs that got patched this past update were actually +50% duration and not +30 seconds duration, so they get 4.5 minute Circles now. We might end up with a 293 second duration with AF2+2 helm.

Here is an example:
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Arcane_Circle

Test Server update today, checked out the new Killer Instinct...

With 5/5 Killer Instinct merits and enhanced Monster Helm +2 the KI duration is 3:55.

Edit: Hmmmmmm! Something is wrong here... The minimum KI duration is off by 5 seconds. With only 1 merit, and no helm, it lasts 2:55. o _o I get the "Falkirk's Killer Instinct effect wears off." message around the 2:54 timer mark, so the base duration is a tad short.

Edited, Feb 24th 2012 10:37am by Bookmarku

So what I would like to know is how Killer Instinct effects fellow party members? I know party members benefit from the extra duration with merits. 3min to 4min. But can it be further enhanced? I.e. bst wears Ferine Cabasset +2 and Ferine Gausape +2 for Augments "Killer" effects and 5x killer effects merits. Do those buffs transfer to party members when the bst uses Killer Instinct? Or are those buffs for the bst only?

Short version: can a bst boost damage for party members with gear/merits when he uses Killer Instinct?

Intimidation is affected by your stats vs the enemy's. You won't intimidate anything worth fighting nearly that much. Very nice DT-% though. I forgot it did that.

Now to test whether it would work on spells. 1000 needles is a plantoid move, so it's damage is obviously reduced. But would, say, a spell cast by a plantoid be reduced, or is it not technically a plantoid move and would deal full damage?

Ferine Cabasset +2 doesn't affect Killer effects or Killer instinct at all.
Monster Helm +2 does. It increases KI merit potency (maximum of +1 min duration via merits) Also it gives +5 to Killer effects.
The extended duration from Monster helm +2 should affect party members. Its really just enhancing the JA so the duration is set when the JA is used.
It works the same s other circle abilities for other party members:
+15% damage dealt
-15% damage taken
+15% Killer effect

This is all the bonus other players will get. Killer effects+ on bst main will not affect other players.
This is really what is already happening w/ bst. However it is stacking higher due to Ferine Gausape +2 and the BST's higher killer effect.

this is also giving a +25% damage bonus if you have Killer effects capped this way..

This might help peak the ruinators up to 4k more often... depends on how much str I sacrifice for it..

I wish we had a magian axe that added Killer effects now ^.^.

hmmm... I might have been confusing weaponskills with job abilities... Which to monster tp moves fall under? Weaponskills or Job abilities?
We should have plenty of opportunity to find out w/ the Killer Instinct builds now... you are probably right and they can't be intimidated...

I forgot about Killer effects merits also!!

15% killer effects traits + merits
15% Killer instinct
10~12% from food
helm 5%

bow 2%
shield 2%
ring 3% (but stupid latent conditions)

I'm just planning what I want my set to be (and I'm thinking aloud on the forum).. 45% is solidly covered... 47% if I stick just to HQ food.
The last 3% is a comparison of trade offs:

Tatami shield wins if I'm not dual-wielding
Killer Shortbow can be equipped anytime, but swapping for pet or petfood costs TP when shortbow goes back on. (I was doing this for over a year)
Tamer's ring gets the 3% perfectly, but has the really stupid latent making it no good for WS's

There's also an easy 5% from pipilaka belt or melaco mittens if its birds or plants.. then you dont' need to worry w/ shield vs, bow vs ring... but my inventory is overflowing enough already...
I think I'll probably be using the bow and leave it at 49% most the time. use the shield only when not dual wielding. the killer effects food stacks to 99 so I think I'll be carrying each and put them in same macro as killer instinct. they only last 3 min....

Edited, Mar 27th 2012 6:52pm by Xilk



Oh yeah! I thought of something to test!
While Killer Instinct is active, what happens when you switch pets?

Do the effects stay the same for the mob family, or do they change? (i suspect they stay the same)
I'll test this when I get home if you don't hit it first. The duration was so short before, it wasn't really a valid question.. now it might be useful to know.



I remembered that, but the best you can get is 62.5%
The -dt from ferine Gausape's effect on Killer effects is 1/2 the killer effect. if you have 50% -pdt then the remaining damge is reduced by 25% (max from gausape) you only get a net reduction of 62.5% Unless the 15% from killer effect does not count towards this 50% pdt cap... which I doubt.
Its kind of tricky this way. I think you get the most benefit from killer effect bonus capped 25%. This would mean any -damage taken gear would be 25% less effective than normal.. I'm not sure where the ideal mix would be for bst. I'm guessing only a few pieces w/ large boosts would be worth it.. ~40% total from Killer instinct and killer effects bonsues seems rather worthwhile.


Edited, Mar 27th 2012 7:29pm by Xilk

ha! hq food is perfect then! 5 min is same as killer instinct recast! I love it!


in your plantoid killer shot, are you wearing any additional -pdt gear?

As I see it you are getting the 25% damage reduction from gausape and capped killer effects. that would reduce the 500 damage from 1000 needles to 375. Reducing that to 299 is just shy of another 20% reduction. I expect 15% reduction from killer instinct... but where is the other ~5% pdt coming from?

what neck pieces is that?




you are missing 5% on the killer effects. its 47%
15% from trait + merits
15% from Killer instinct
12% from HQ food
5% from monster helm
thats 47%
shortbow for 49%
Edited, Mar 27th 2012 7:44pm by Xilk

Edited, Mar 27th 2012 7:45pm by Xilk

your -pdt and -mdt values are correct

you would have 49% killer effect for 24% -damage taken. However, you are missing the tricky point of this.

the normal damage taken reduction, and the killer effects damage reduction are in 2 separate steps.
You cannot add them together.
you will NOT get 74% damage reduction this way.
You will get 50% physical damage reduction, then a second calculation of 24% reduction

taking it slow and easy to see we'll do it like this:
monster hits you for 100 damage!!
PDT kicks in for 50%, you take 50 damage!
Killer effect reduction kicks in for 24%
you take 38 damage!

The 24% is calculated AFTER it is already reduced by 50%
The total reduction will be 62%, not 74%

that is an awesome damage reduction set btw.

and you would still be getting 55% magic reduction total from that set also... .not counting Shell

Edited, Mar 27th 2012 8:18pm by Xilk

I think it's mainly because the effect is so small compared to all the other pieces (Beast Trousers/+1 are 1% Killer effect, so that would add 0.5% PDT/MDT/Damage dealt, but depending on the rest of your setup that 0.5% might disappear due to mathematical rounding). So, yeah, it's a large trade-off that I'd only make if I didn't have other options available for that slot.

From my encounter with the Sabotender in the Eastern Altepa Desert, I noticed that the Killer Effects build had a very potent effect, and without parsing it (not yet anyway) I felt that approximately half of his attacks were intimidated. Most likely the intimidation cap is 50%, unless we show otherwise in the future.

But now, on the other hand, when I used the same Plantoid Killer build against Pancimanci I noticed it wasn`t nearly as effective - was I just unlucky? I also tried, for the lulz, to use a Bird Killer set against that new Colibri VWNM, Yalungur, and it felt very unfair that even with what should`ve been 50% Killer Effects, he was still hitting me the vast majority of the time!

I put on my Plantoid Killer effects gear and picked a fight with Ghillie Dhu (a sapling NM in Konschtat Highlands, approx. level 30) to parse Intimidation Rate versus an Impossible to Gauge foe. My gear was the following:

Guttler / Tatami Shield / Killer Shortbow / ___
Monster Helm +2 / Wiglen Gorget / Vermin Earring / Brutal Earring
Ferine Gausape +2 / Brego Gloves / Paguroidea Ring / Sheltered Ring
Atheling Mantle / Pipilaka Belt / Ferine Quijotes +2 / Ferine Ocreae +2

I used MailbusterCetas and ate Wizard Cookies - and I only parsed samples during the 3min 55sec Killer Instinct duration, so all data is with 59% Killer Effects.

316 intimidation procs from a 973 sample size is 32.5% proc rate. So either Killer Effects` intimidation rate is halved (hmm) or there`s an intimidation rate cap of 33%ish on NMs. Gonna parse on Sabotenders next, with the same 59% Killer Effect build to see if the cap on regular mobs is 50%.

Just finished a parse with 59% Plantoid Killer against a Sabotender:

364 intimidation procs out of 700 samples, so 52% proc rate against regular mobs. So intimidation rate is capped at 50% on non-NMs.

Edit:


Hmm, I`m not sure if I understand what you mean. The entire point of this comparison is NM vs. non-NM behaviour with regards to intimidation proc rate. What would Abyssea mobs or high level mobs show me?

Edit2: Did an augmented Killer Effects test on Raskovnik in Aby-Konschtat using Cloudsplitter (since it was Lightsday, didn`t bother with Primal Rend). I used VV, Sea Daughter and MC atmas and had MailbusterCetas and Wizard Cookies once again.

300% TP Cloudsplitter damage on Raskovnik:

Regular Cloudsplitter - 1213 dmg
Killer Instinct - 1340 dmg (+9.9% dmg)
Killer Instinct and Ferine Gausape +2 w/Killer Effects +50% - 1554 dmg (only 16.5% higher than the Killer Instinct damage? o_o The expected damage increase was +25%...)

So wait, shouldn't that third test value be closer to 1700 dmg? Yeah, it`s lower because the bonus from killer effects capped at 33% so you only get a 16.5% damage boost, rather than the full 25%.

So versus regular mobs Killer Effects cap at 50%.
And versus NMs Killer Effects cap at 33%. See the below edit.

Edit3: Ok, did some more data collection on the test server using brews on the Treant NM, Mielikki, in Aby-Attohwa.

Brewed 300% Primal Rend damage on Mielikki (Base Primal Rend was 29654):

                          Damage       Expected     Actual     Actual Damage 
                          Bonus %       Damage      Damage       Bonus % 
Killer Instinct            15%          34102       32338          9.9% 
Killer Effects +32%        16%          34398       32805         10.5% 
Killer Effects +44%        22%          36177       32938         14.5% 
Killer Instinct            38%          40922       37409         25.1% 
+ Killer Effects +47% 
Killer Instinct            44%          42701       38402         29.0% 
+ Killer Effects +50%

Whatever bonus damage was expected to be applied to the brewed Primal Rend damage was cut to 2/3rds potency on Mielikki.

So in terms of my intimidation rate parses earlier, my 50% intimidation rate was cut down to 33% on Notorious Monster targets because of this game mechanic. My original conclusion was incorrect - it`s not that killer effects cap at 33% on NMs per se, but rather, whatever your killer effects bonus is, it will be slashed by 1/3rd when you deal damage, take damage, or intimidate an NM.

Edited, Mar 30th 2012 3:31pm by Bookmarku

Huh, that's bizarre! Gonna look into this... :o