Conclusive jug testingFollow

Hiya,
I'd like to thank all of you involved in the actual testing and write-up of the above pets currently available and commend you for all your hard work, I have been wanting such stats for quite a while and your findings are very interesting ! The dedication, to say nothing of cost and time involved in testing is really appreciated by many I'm sure and if there was some way to give you a medal I would !

Just a few questions, do any of you have any details/stats available for using pets from different echelons and family strengths ?
For eg, I have recently tried using pets spur/tp moves to compensate for them being in a lower echelon, a classic being FF against a Lvl 82 NM Funguar, we both got wiped before I could use 'TP Drain' and on 2nd attempt tried using a NN on the wrong assumption that as it was in the 1st Echelon/Family it should fare better, however this just shows the effect of the family loop effect and NN was ko'd equally as fast as FF.

Do you think that SE will bring in new pets for the new caps or just raise x amount of current pets avaialable to the new cap ?

Thank you all very much again !
Jon


Edited, Apr 18th 2011 7:59am by joncowman

I went out a did a bit more testing.
fargan has 6.9 tp/hit
Merle has 4.8 (h2h 2 hits/round, so 9.6 tp/normal attack round means merle gains TP fastest of jugs!)

Any mnks around to point to some good clarification for confirming martial arts traits? I'm not really familiar w/ h2h damage calculations. I'm guessing this shows the base 480 delay from h2h, but tp gain for h2h will only change w/ weapon delay additions, correct? so there is no added delay to Merle's h2h, and we'll probably be able to verify tier 7 Martial arts if using fraps or perhaps parsing attacks/time.

I was also doing some testing of spur and Ferine Ocreae +2 and Ferine Cabasset +2's "enhance monster correlation effects". I'll have to sort out my data a bit to check if it indicates anything for the head peace. I'm guessing it may be similar to the blue artifact armor that does the same thing. It did not increase the damage of Silence gas from Louise, but that is probably because its a breath attack, w/ static magical damage based of HP. I think additional tp only enhances Magic accuracy for Silence gas... (1005 damage unresisted at 100% hp, monster correlation and manoplas +2 had no effect on damage amount. 251 damage for resists, which were surprisingly common even vs level 0 mobs ;.;) Silence gas was a poor choice to test these on.. as breath damage depends on hp... I was thinking the consistent damage ... blah blah...
I only tested Silence gas and wild oats today. glyph axe is wonderful for this. Wild oats is physical ofcourse, just like blue magic parallel (they are not necessarily exactly the same, though the stat mods for blue spells are a good place to start testing). it was funny, I need more data, but I often got hits of ~70 on rarabs (testing correlation) and ~130 vs tiny mandy's. Just as often though, I got ~330 on mandies and 280 on rarabs. I'm pretty sure from tp return that its a single hit, but my very last one, I got ~540 damage on a rarab, and I think it was a crit hit from the animation. I only hit 540 once, it was not normal. I only have a sample size of 16 wild oats, and I was getting drowsy (and building tp off level 1's is tedious). I'll pay closer attention to animations and tp return.

Which leads me into some of my thoughts I wanted to discuss concerning testing. Using the base tp values for each pet, (which I think we have all now) it gives us a tool to test ready moves.

I'm going to start compiling ready move data for pets. If you actually look at the symbols on the ready list next to the moves, they should indicate which ones are physical, magical, and any elemental correlations. The symbols are the same as those used for blue magic.

for the physical ready moves, we should be able to check tp return and determine if they are multihit or not. I don't see any indicator in the game log to indicate if it is a crit hit or not, though I rather suspect Wild oats has a chance to crit from my testing today. I think I'll take ready move testing to abyssea. I don't think the capped pdif from fighting little mobs will be that worthwhile. Larger sample size, faster tp gain, and stat modifiers from atma will be more helpful imo.

for any other bsts interested in contributing, I believe we want to check & show the following:

Physical spells:
TP return (multihit?)
Can it crit?
Stat modifiers
damage variation via tp (Ferine manoplas +2)

Magical:
stat modifiers
damage variation via TP
(I think magical is best option for testing monster correlation damage changes as well)


If we can find this information.. it might lead to some more useful application of atma and ready moves from pets. its at least interesting.

OH! long post, but before I forget, my results from testing spur improvement from Ferine ocreae +2. I tested this on both merle and louise. the Louise testing was easier, but my findings do not agree w/ wiki.

Louise:
8.3 tp/hit
spur (no ocreae) 9.9 tp/hit 1.6 tp/hit increase is ~20% (this is more like store tp 3)
Spur + Ocreae +2 10.7 tp/hit 2.4 tp/hit increase is ~29% There is not a store tp trait this high!

Merle
4.8 tp hit
spur (no ocreae) 5.7 tp/hit 0.9 tp/hit increase is ~19% increase (.96 would be 20% which indicates its truncated)
spur + Ocreae +2 6.3 tp/hit 1.3 tp/hit increase is 31% increase

I have not tested if Ferine ocreae +2 need to stay equipped for the effect to be active or not yet.
I do not have any other pet store tp gear (fidelity mantle, or appropriate desultor tassets augments) to compare. However it looks to me like spur is giving pet store tp 3 and a higher tier of it w/ ocreae +2. I guess the store tp trait on wiki hasn't been updated since the level cap increase... have sam confirmed if they got tier V yet at level 90? I would expect a 30% tp return increase to be tier 5.


edit: also if someone w/ ocreae +1 could test this? I'm guessing it will make it a store tp IV




Edited, Apr 19th 2011 2:31am by Xilk

HA!!

I just revisited this information because I figured it was time to resume testing on determining attack values for pets. I have really not been looking forward to tweaking my attack values and gathering data from mobs all over the place.. .however, I also realized we have a tool which smn does not :D

Kegsay, in his wonderful testing, could not establish data for how much Damage + Fstr increases/level on smn. His tests only show level 75 avatar vs level 37 avatar. (He could repeat for level 45 avatar and level 90 avatar now, but its not a large sample or a very clear pattern). BST however CAN test this!

Using Dawn mulsum and Bookmarku's tables we can (tediously) test pet level wherever we are. (We can know what % and hp value each one cures, which is enough to see max hp for each called pet). So we can determine which level each pet is.

An easier method is, we can use level 75 jugs for testing and regather samples w/ each increment of Beast Affinity. This means we can test level 75, 77, 79, 81, 83, and 85 jugs. This should be a decent enough sample to see if there is a clear pattern in the growth of the Base D + fSTR term.

Did some testing with Bubble Curtain - used Ducal Guard and fought clumps of Caoineag. Tested each condition 3 times for accuracy (was mostly using recast timers and log info to figure out the duration).

100% TP - 3:00
100% TP w/Manoplas +2 - 3:45
204% TP - 4:30
300% TP - 6:00
300% TP w/Manoplas +2 - 6:00

The effect can overwrite itself (tanked many Caoineag's spells for 20 mins+ reusing Bubble Curtain at 300% TP every 3 minutes). Seems to be every 50 TP after the initial 100 gives 45 extra seconds (assuming Manoplas +2 give 50 bonus TP).

Edited, May 3rd 2011 2:52am by Bookmarku

I tested with wild carrot and found it capping out at 200% with gloves, which points to it being a 100TP bonus, so if you did the same with bubble curtain, you should see it cap out at 6:00 with 200% TP.

Actually, it would be nice to get confirmation. I rarely have time to do a lot of testing.



Edited, May 3rd 2011 10:24pm by blowfin

Hmmm, i'm not sure what direction that pushes things in, heh.

Regardless, I guess it's about time I posted these results anyway...

You know, looking at these again maybe I convinced myself of something that didn't exist. It certainly looks like wild carrot caps out at around 200% TP with the gloves, then again it looks like Wild carrot caps out before 300% TP without the gloves anyway. We seem to be seeing a jump in tiers from the gloves, maybe nothing more than that. Anyone have any insight from these? Probably time to rethink what is actually happening.

With Gloves 
 
TP  HP Cured 
115 356 
116 356 
119 356 
142 390 
169 424 
170 441 
188 475 
206 492 
207 492 
218 543 
243 543 
300 543 
 
Without Gloves 
 
TP    HP Cured 
122   339 
129   356 
131   339 
138   356 
159   373 
176   441 
179   407 
190   441 
207   475 
263   543 
300   543 

Edited, May 4th 2011 1:37am by blowfin

That was all from the same pet. Maybe days have some effect on it too? I didn't record what game day it was unfortunately.



I did that with all of those results so they should be fairly accurate. There is always a danger that your pet might get in another hit after the echo though I guess. It's hard to be totally sure that it doesn't happen sometimes I think.

Nice job Bookmarku :D

it looks like it certainly caps at 1/8 of max hp. It might be possible to increase the cap by using hp + atma.

Dark blade
Sanguine scythe +20% hp
Ebon Hoof +30% hp
Zenith +10%
Impregnable tower
1000 needles
bushin
royal lineage

It might still have a different component for how it scales. Its not linear growth by tp.
If so, you would be restoring 1.125 hp/tp and this doesn't hold for the test values you have.
Which makes me think it is not entirely hp and tp based on how much is restored.

Also, Blowfin's test showed that it caps out before 300% tp for level 90 pet. It caps sooner w/ manoplas, but it still caps before 300% w/out manoplas.

Also, Its harder to test, but I think it is not the same hp restored for different party members. Like a waltz it might depend on target's stats like vit. I think I remember it curing more hp on me than on lulush several times.

Hmmm. btw, this can also be a quicker/easier way to test lulush's level ^.^ using familiar might improve cap also.
also looks like we can project that level 99 pet will cure 615 hp at cap, and 583 hp for level 95 pet.

if hp+ atma helps... we could be looking at 650 and 700 capped cures pretty easily. but w/ max 3x hp+ atma, you only double your hp pool at most. (lolz 9k hp pet and 6k hp master is kinda sic funny... won't help dd though :P)

might be worthwhile to double check how many charges wild carrot uses.. I know it says 3, but it was only using 2 when it first came out. I never checked if they ever changed that or not. rr + sanguine scythe looks really interesting for lulush.

Edited, May 5th 2011 2:10pm by Xilk

Edited, May 5th 2011 2:22pm by Xilk

Great info as always.

Looks like Sanguine Scythe probably increase hp by 25% instead of the listed 20% on wiki.
I've been toying w/ the numbers you have, and I've not yet found a good model.

What amount of tp can restore 339 hp?
your samples show a 5% span for 526 HP restored, at least a 9% tp span for 509 HP restored, and at least 5 increments of 17 hp between 200% TP and 235% TP.

It is not linear progression on TP. It might not even be parabolic, which further indicates to me there is another variable.

I also really think it restores different HP per target. That is easiest to test between lulush and the player (How have you been reducing hp to cure? just fighting stuff? to take damage?) It would be best to test w/ another player in the party (preferably different race/job).

If the target's stat DOES affect hp restored, then we could work out a model. It could also tell us stat information for lulush.

I don't suppose you had familiar on when you used Sanguine Scythe?
45 tp bonus has been pointed to before for manoplas. Its good to have another source of confirmation.
In some of the Discussion regarding it, some players complained that "why didn't they just say, PET TP bonus" regarding the description. It might just be SE enjoying the mysteriousness... or there might be more to it. Specific to sic/ready.. I wonder about a reduction in recast OR a reduction in charges used :)
Its just another idea I'd like to test, but I'm sure you can see the advantages. (save TP atma would become VERY good for bst if this were so).

Another idea you might be interested in. Critical attack bonus is capped at 50% for players, or so I hear. I don't know if its capped for pets. Afterall, pdt is not capped on pets at 50% like it is for players.
Using both RR & Sanguine Scythe should tell us. Our war pets already have 8% from traits. if it all stacks up to 68% increase in damage from crit hits, that would be quite awesome. as crit hits are best way for pets to get closest to pdif cap which is much higher than player's cap). If it DOES cap, then I'm also toying w/ a few ideas about atma combinations... forgo RR for Sanguine scythe + gnarled horn and maybe omnipotent or lions... its a strange/interesting combination.

I'm rather interested in a new approach to some NM's using lulush to tank by spamming wild carrot. It might allow a more aggressive approach to abyssea NM's that AoE alot. 2x bst/dnc using RR, Sanguine Scythe, and 1 more, either defensive or offensive atma could probably kill quite quickly and restore alot of hp. Between the high crit damage and the massive Curaga's, bst/lulush might tank well, even for a party maybe.

Thank you for all your testing. I intend to test this myself when I get back online, if you dont' get to it first.

Edited, May 6th 2011 1:38am by Xilk

Edited, May 6th 2011 1:58am by Xilk

Edited, May 6th 2011 2:08am by Xilk

yeah, i know I've seen differences when it cured either pet or myself up to 100%. that way it doesn't cure for the full amount. Thats why I'm not sure if it cures different amounts/target or not. I didn't gather data methodically so I don't know. Upon reading the tests here (and thinking how waltzes work) it makes me very curious.

Your findings of the relationship to pet hp and the 17 hp/increment improvements are already great finds/very helpful. We found out how to make bigger cures w/ it.

If more ready moves are related to hp... familiar might actually be more useful than we thought.
I think I'll try some pares w/ and w/out familiar as well. See if there is any improvement in attack/def. can kill the myth whether its true or false.

:D perfect :D

That is a lot of work.

I didn't expect the tiers to change strictly from 16.5 tp increments to 10 tp increments. I thought they would gradually shrink.

There are some interesting points and interesting holes.
I find it particularly interesting that the cap comes earlier at level 90 than it does at level 88. I expected this, as the earlier tests seem to indicate so.

HP restored = FLOOR(MaxPetHP/8 - (level - 22)/4 * tp tier)

The hp increment for level 88 is 16.5 hp/tp tier
for level 89 it is 16.75 hp /tp tier (I confirmed this could NOT be 16.5 from the samples we have)
for level 90 it is 17 hp/tp tier
you just floor it for the final hp amount
You could express this hp tier as (level - 22)/4 (this easily holds for these 3 levels, and probably a safe bet for many levels. However, this very likely could be a trait value for lulush). I'm guessing this level -22 term I'm using here is actually pet VIT. I'm hoping Blowfin can verify it by telling us if he was using Atma of the Mounted Champion for his tests. Or we can try it. I think its a stat even if its not VIT, but here is why: if you look at a hume warrior w/out a support job, his VIT is pretty close to this at these levels. Also, The data samples that blowfin and Bookmarku have provided all match into the hp tiers for the level of the pet. However the TP tiers do not match at all.

I think that wild carrot, like healing breath, is capped by pet's max HP. However I think its modified by other things. This could explain a more rapid growth to cap that we see as level increases. It might also have a relation to how much tp is needed to go to the next tier, as it is a bit different on the different pet levels.

I don't know how to calculate the TP tier's quite yet. We need to compare tp tiers/level for this. We need to know the boundaries on another level pet.
However, the tp tiers are not static, they are adjusting as well.

The level 90 sample is not as large, but it does show us that the top 2x tiers only span 5tp each before the next tier is 10 tp again.

So, we'll need a few more things to finish nailing it down :P (which I feel kinda bad saying, since the samples have been great so far).

I know Bookmarku checked for many stats if they increased the max HP restored, which only HP does, but I'm betting if you use Mounted Champion for the vit, you'll see a higher amount of HP cured for the NON-capped tp ranges. You should be able to get to capped hp restored, at lower tp values.

We could also run tests to find the tiers for hp restored when you have hp+ atma on. We would start from a much higher cap and see if the same number of tiers exist or if the tp/tier shortens and we get more tp tiers. there is room for either.

Edited, May 6th 2011 7:56pm by Xilk

Much work to be done then! :D

Ok, here's some new info from a test I just ran on level 88 LuckyLulush to see if VIT affected the tiers or the amount healed. I used Adamantine (VIT+20) and Echoes (VIT+20) so I wouldn't have to fight off the regen of Mounted Champion. So with VIT+40 on my pet I got the following data:

312 HP @121% TP 
329 HP @122% TP 
 
510 HP @254% TP 
527 HP @255% TP 
 
527 HP @300% TP

So the tiers and healing amounts went unaffected, oh well.

I'll start working on TP tiers for level 89 LuckyLulush and edit this later. My bad about the +1 gloves, blowfin. Do you suppose +1 gloves have a lesser effect on TP bonus? Anyways, back to work...

Ah, great tip, thank you. ^^

Edit: I performed a similar test to the one for determining healing tiers and applied it to a level 89 LuckyLulush. I assumed that the tiers might be slightly different but I decided to use the tier data from the level 88 test as a starting point. I only used Ducal Guard atma and came up with the following info:

300 HP @100% TP 
300 HP @104% TP 
--------------- Tier 1, 5% TP span 
317 HP @105% TP 
317 HP @121% TP 
--------------- Tier 2, 17% TP span 
334 HP @122% TP 
334 HP @137% TP 
--------------- Tier 3, 16% TP span 
351 HP @138% TP 
351 HP @154% TP 
--------------- Tier 4, 17% TP span 
367 HP @155% TP 
367 HP @164% TP 
--------------- Tier 5, 10% TP span 
384 HP @165% TP 
384 HP @174% TP 
--------------- Tier 6, 10% TP span 
401 HP @175% TP 
401 HP @184% TP 
--------------- Tier 7, 10% TP span 
417 HP @185% TP 
417 HP @194% TP 
--------------- Tier 8, 10% TP span 
434 HP @195% TP 
434 HP @204% TP 
--------------- Tier 9, 10% TP span 
451 HP @205% TP 
451 HP @214% TP 
--------------- Tier 10, 10% TP span 
468 HP @215% TP 
468 HP @224% TP 
--------------- Tier 11, 10% TP span 
484 HP @225% TP 
484 HP @234% TP 
--------------- Tier 12, 10% TP span 
501 HP @235% TP 
501 HP @244% TP 
--------------- Tier 13, 10% TP span 
518 HP @245% TP 
518 HP @254% TP 
--------------- Tier 14, 10% TP span 
535 HP @255% TP 
535 HP @300% TP 
--------------- Tier 15 (Final), 45% TP span

The thresholds were identical in terms of the TP required to jump to the next tier. I'll work on the level 90 data, but I feel like it will be identical as well. If old data has any discrepancies, it could be due to unaccounted TP gain from hitting or getting hit, or still having a Glyph Axe equipped or using Manoplas+1/+2 when it was thought that they were de-equipped, etc.

Edited, May 7th 2011 6:34am by Bookmarku

Here's the data for level 90 LuckyLulush when using Wild Carrot:

305 HP @100% TP 
305 HP @104% TP 
--------------- Tier 1, 5% TP span 
322 HP @105% TP 
322 HP @120% TP 
--------------- Tier 2, 16% Tp span 
339 HP @121% TP 
339 HP @138% TP 
--------------- Tier 3, 18% TP span 
356 HP @139% TP 
356 HP @140% TP 
356 HP @154% TP 
--------------- Tier 4, 16% TP span 
373 HP @155% TP 
373 HP @164% TP 
--------------- Tier 5, 10% TP span 
390 HP @165% TP 
390 HP @174% TP 
--------------- Tier 6, 10% TP span 
407 HP @175% TP 
407 HP @184% TP 
--------------- Tier 7, 10% TP span 
424 HP @185% TP 
424 HP @194% TP 
--------------- Tier 8, 10% TP span 
441 HP @195% TP 
441 HP @204% TP 
--------------- Tier 9, 10% TP span 
458 HP @205% TP 
458 HP @214% TP 
--------------- Tier 10, 10% TP span 
475 HP @215% TP 
475 HP @224% TP 
--------------- Tier 11, 10% TP span 
492 HP @225% TP 
492 HP @234% TP 
--------------- Tier 12, 10% TP span 
509 HP @235% TP 
509 HP @244% TP 
--------------- Tier 13, 10% Tp span 
526 HP @245% TP 
526 HP @249% TP 
526 HP @251% TP 
526 HP @254% TP 
--------------- Tier 14, 10% TP span 
543 HP @255% TP 
543 HP @300% TP 
--------------- Tier 15 (Final), 45% TP span

There were a couple percentages early on that shifted compared to their level 88 and 89 counterparts, so there's an 18% TP span tier in this series. Looking back on my older tests, I must've messed up a couple samples, but now all TP values from 100~300% should be accounted for.

I also ran a test on a level 88 LL using Familiar+Sanguine Scythe+Zenith to see if tiers thresholds were affected:

448 HP @100% TP 
448 HP @104% TP 
473 HP @105% TP 
 
772 HP @254% TP 
797 HP @255% TP 
797 HP @300% TP

Edited, May 7th 2011 11:55am by Bookmarku

Not pet-related but...

Here's some Cloudsplitter info that I believe shows the Fencer bonus is 30 TP.

Fought Elder Goobbues on Lightsday/Darksday/Firesday in the Boyahda Tree (no weather present for the three hours I was there) as 90 BST/DNC. Equipped 85 Farsha with Pallas's Shield for the Fencer testing and then off-handed a OA2~4 axe for the dual wield portion.

Cloudsplitter Equipment Stats:

90 Beastmaster/45 Dancer

STR 86+49
DEX 81-8
VIT 83
AGI 70
INT 68
MND 71+32
CHR 81+8

MAB+5

Cloudsplitter, w/Fencer:

 TP      DMG 
100%     834 
101%     836 
102%     838 
103%     841 
105%     845 
106%     847 
107%     850 
109%     856 
115%     869 
118%     878 
122%     888 
129%     905 
141%     933 
143%     937 
149%     951 
150%     955 
153%     961 
164%     989 
173%    1007 
174%    1011 
182%    1026 
191%    1045 
199%    1059 
202%    1065 
205%    1071 
207%    1075 
212%    1084 
235%    1128 
249%    1155 
254%    1165 
267%    1190 
270%    1196 
275%    1196 
286%    1196 
300%    1196

Cloudsplitter while Dual Wielding:

 TP      DMG 
100%     760 
101%     766 
103%     770 
104%     772 
106%     775 
108%     781 
109%     782 
110%     787 
112%     792 
124%     820 
135%     845 
147%     876 
151%     884 
162%     911 
168%     926 
172%     937 
192%     983 
200%    1002 
214%    1030 
222%    1045 
240%    1081 
268%    1135 
271%    1140 
281%    1158 
284%    1165 
290%    1177 
292%    1181 
297%    1190 
300%    1196

The Cloudsplitter damage caps around 270% in the Fencer tests and also the 267% TP equates in damage to the 297% TP WS from the non-Fencer tests, which points to Fencer being a TP bonus of 30.

Edited, Jun 1st 2011 8:27pm by Bookmarku

I've been running my parser while killing a bunch of luison in la theine for axe trial.

I can definitely say that our intimidation rate has gone up since that update. w/ 5/5 merits for killer effects, I was getting 15% average intimidation. Now I'm always at 20%.

More pertinant to this thread is that I recorded merle having a 15% counter rate. Wiki lists Mnk getting counter II at level 80, but it also lists 13% as the base counter rate. I don't know where that testing is. I can confirm Merle has the 2nd tier as expected by a mnk of this level.

Interestingly, I only see 5% double attack from Shasra (and I am usually wearing ferine necklace)
I see 13% from louise and its really hard to tell w/ merle because of h2h and kick attacks. I don't know mnk calculations very well.

as far as DPS goes, Shasra is much higher than louise or merle.
I was usuing: stronghold, Razed ruins, and Gnarled Horn for atma. (yes I did consider the 10% counter from atma for testing, actual rate including atma was 25% counter rate). w/ this atma Louise was showing 83% crit rate while shasra was~75 and merle around 70 which matches earlier findings about crit rate.

The base is 5% w/ the +2 w/out merits. I have 5/5 killer effects merits.
I do not believe Gausape effects killer effects proc rate, but I have not tested that specifically.

BST cannot equip fowling earring. Since the notice about killer effects in the May update I think it would be good to test all the new killer effects gear also. glad the mitts can actually be sold on AH nice upgrade from the darksteel mitts, and bird killer is an interested bonus.

Hmm, I'm not sure if proc rate directly relates to pdt/damage+... at least I'm not sure the exact ratio.

Already tested and confirmed in another thread. So, yes, your proposed test for atma would be very indicative.

There are just few gear pieces that are optimal for this. This is why I keep killer shortbow on all the time, 'cept when I reward or call beast. It gives me 1% damage boost to pretty much anything and status resists. I have 8% damage boost from gausape, merits and killer shortbow.

tatami shield is another 1%
Beast trousers is 1% but doesn't seem to kick in until you have at least 3% boost from other equipment sources.
tamer's ring is 2%
Suzaku's scythe is 3%, birds only
panther mask is 1%, lizards only

I havne't tested pants or mask since the may update though, they may have changed.

Edited, Jun 7th 2011 12:54pm by Xilk

Edited, Jun 7th 2011 12:56pm by Xilk

read the other thread. Also ready this thread on ffxiah.

The base is well established. 5% damage boost w/ no merits or other gear, just the gausape +2. it was 2% w/ the gausape +1.

More thorough testing can be done, but its clear to see an improvement w/ both gear and merits, and its clear how much.

Edited, Jun 7th 2011 1:47pm by Xilk

Oh! yeah, I wasn't clear on that. I did both.

established base before, and tested after. it did not change. so that indicates that it probably doesn't work how you say.. unless the adjustment didn't adjust the base, but only how much the merits improve killer effects.

This is what I've found so far:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/103597-Temporary-Random-Facts-Thread?p=4641701&viewfull=1#post4641701

I'm probably going to leave off testing PDT and go quantify all the killer things I can get my hands on using the damage bonus.

Edit: How did you get a 20% Intimidation rate? I'm parsing a paltry 5-6% with a huge sample size.
Edit2: Somewhat nevermind, I think Killer effects in Altepa in general are messed up. They work in Misa and Vunk just fine at least.

Question - Do Killer merits allow you to intimidate things that you couldn't normally intimidate, like Puks and Demons?

Edited, Jun 8th 2011 12:39am by Byrthnoth

I figured out what why killer traits are inconsistent. See BG thread for more (and other random testing).

Figured it out again... for some reason Plantoid, Arcana, Demon, and Beast Killer are only 8% Intimidation rate, while all the others that I can test are 10%. I don't have /DRG or /PLD, so I can't test those.

Edited, Jun 9th 2011 8:40am by Byrthnoth

I've reviewed your findings on the BG forum in detail. I think you have a good model. It makes good sense why trousers were not showing a good increase and why tamer's ring shows 2% damage increase instead of 3. I do have it, and it fits your model and fits the stated text on the item. I think its ironic that our bst trousers are the weakest piece of gear.
The discrepancy you are pointing at for bst killer and plantoid killer compared to others is interesting in that they are the last ones obtained by bst, and they are obtained at higher levels. Is there a 2nd tier I wonder? would need to parse other traits at lower levels to check if they come out to 8% or not.

Your model suggests that suzaku's scythe is +6 or 7 killer trait, and probably 6 when I apply it to my testing. I saw 3% damage improvement from it alone.

Your model fits my old intimidation rate of 15% w/ my gear and merits, but not the 20% I"m seeing since the update. I think its a pretty good model, but I wonder if something is missing w/ this intimidation rate I"m getting.
if the base for bst is 8, I have on shortbow for 2, and 5 merits thats it for gnoles... but I have another 5% coming from somewhere.

If you can really stack lizard killer up so high... we could probably get 67% -pdt vs lizards :P maybe a bit higher w/ the right earring and weapon... a bit higher w/ the killer instinct up as well :P Great findings.

I"ll go ahead soon and make some changes to wiki regarding killer traits and point to your testing. Thank you very much for doing more testing regarding this.

Actually, my idea was to stack all the lizard killer gear/food/etc and max pdt at 50% w/ other gear and atma if needed... I can't say it would be terribly useful, but it would be interesting to try. Also i was not including the killer instinct in the number 67%.. but it looks like it might cap at 62.5% if killer effects is +50.

Also, I've been meaning to test gausape for -mdt as well, but haven't' gotten around to it. Its a simple test, but I wanted to see if it is -dt or just -pdt. I suspect it is -dt. I suppose getting a hecteyes or worm to cast on you a few times the same spell, w/ and w/out would be effective. A high level worm would work best. you can stay out of range w/ a bit of refresh and just cure yourself while it nukes you.
If the mob is too low level, you resist too much and its irritating getting a good number. actually having some hp+ atma, regen, and no mdt would work well to test in abyssea. I'll try this one if i can get online today... or tomorrow, cuz I probably won't be gaming today. ;.;


in order to test intimidation rate at lower levels, I would parse, and probably manually calculate, the rate at lower levels. Also, it might be useful to get a few of the traits on /blu to see if there is a difference, though I doubt that one.

Edit: I've just remember something else to test. I long time ago, I wondered if chr might also affect killer effects. It seems many of the plantoids and beasts you tested on were hich chr or difficult to charm mobs... 'cept the rabbits though... I'm just brainstorming really, but the nice discussion about the shade set intimidation rate does mention it goes down when mobs are higher level. There may be a stat modifier.. and I've long been suspicous of all chr+ they've always put on bst gear.

I've been updating wiki abit regarding killer effects and monster affinity. The are separate traits, but its clear that monster affinity gives 5% killer effect as well. I'm confident this Monster affinity is what all mobs natively have... Its why they are intimidated by the monster correlations and beastmasters are not. We do no have affinity, just the killer trait. I suspect the Affinity might give the bonus to attack or defense following the monster correlation chart, which is why it may not show up in maxed out pet testing attack on level 0 mobs...
I'm thinking I'll do an intimidation test w/ a supertank pet and keep cabasset on to see if I can actually measure a difference in intimidation rate. If not, i'll post bug report on official forums.


Edited, Jun 10th 2011 3:04am by Xilk

Flies are weak to piercing damage

The 6.7 is stout servant
I've done those gets on the head piece also.

I simply want to test intimidation rate ansome magical ready moves
If I don't see anything tree Ill make a bug report.

1000 needles you could increase damage a bit on blu. Because it was magical instead of the same as cactuar.