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Conclusive jug testingFollow

#27 Mar 10 2011 at 7:12 AM Rating: Decent
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I'd love to see results for this testing with Monster Gloves and/or Monster Gloves +1 equipped. I'd presume we'd see a higher percentage of level 90 pets spawned in this case as that's the whole point of the relic hands, but it'd be nice to finally know for sure if the HQ actually makes a difference in relation to the NQ when it comes to the level a jug spawns at. Oh, and it's actually nice to know my Beast Affinity Merits are still useful till level 96. If all (except for Nazuna) or most of the jugs are eventually proven to be uncapped we might as well drop BA in favor of some other category 2 BST merit, since not even BA5 will make Nazuna go past level 96. We will need to wait for the level cap to be raised.
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#28 Mar 10 2011 at 12:20 PM Rating: Good
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I actually don't have monster gloves. if you'd like to test, feel free.


with merits as cheep as they are, you may as well swap them as needed.
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#29 Mar 10 2011 at 12:45 PM Rating: Good
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When the level cap goes up to 95, the only reason I could see for dropping BA merits would be if we found a jug pet that met the following criteria:
1. Caps at lvl 95 or higher
2. Is as effective as NN
3. Is as cheap as NN

When the cap goes up to 99, Anna is probably cheap enough that she could be the new NN, and let me drop my BA merits.

However, if it turns out that certain situational jugs cap at 91 (say, Dipper or Fatso), it may be worth holding onto those BA merits even at 99.
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#30 Mar 10 2011 at 1:37 PM Rating: Good
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I wish I had Monster Gloves to test further, but alas... ; ;

As for the BA discussion, I agree for the most part with what is being said. :D During this 90-cap phase, I'll still keep 2 BA merits solely for Nazuna, and after the 95 cap is released, might go 5/5 again depending on what pets they release in the future. <3 the Sheep. I'm rockin' 3/5 Feral Howl and 5/5 Killer Instinct in the meantime.
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#31 Mar 10 2011 at 2:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I'd love to see results for this testing with Monster Gloves and/or Monster Gloves +1 equipped. I'd presume we'd see a higher percentage of level 90 pets spawned in this case as that's the whole point of the relic hands, but it'd be nice to finally know for sure if the HQ actually makes a difference in relation to the NQ when it comes to the level a jug spawns at. Oh, and it's actually nice to know my Beast Affinity Merits are still useful till level 96. If all (except for Nazuna) or most of the jugs are eventually proven to be uncapped we might as well drop BA in favor of some other category 2 BST merit, since not even BA5 will make Nazuna go past level 96. We will need to wait for the level cap to be raised.


Great, help us out and provide the information for AF2 jug summons. :) You probably only have to do one pet with which ever set of gloves you have--then we just have to wait for someone to do the same testing with the +1/NQ and we're set. ^^
#32 Mar 10 2011 at 3:39 PM Rating: Good
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svlyons wrote:
When the level cap goes up to 95, the only reason I could see for dropping BA merits would be if we found a jug pet that met the following criteria:
1. Caps at lvl 95 or higher
2. Is as effective as NN
3. Is as cheap as NN

When the cap goes up to 99, Anna is probably cheap enough that she could be the new NN, and let me drop my BA merits.

However, if it turns out that certain situational jugs cap at 91 (say, Dipper or Fatso), it may be worth holding onto those BA merits even at 99.


there are already pets more effective than nazuna with higher level cap and stronger attacks.

cheap... well only merle is cheaper I think. situational. others are not far.
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#33Esoa, Posted: Mar 10 2011 at 7:59 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Pretty sad that we need a merit ability to make our primary ability useful. We spend merits not to gain effectiveness, but to retain effectiveness. :(
#34 Mar 11 2011 at 1:39 AM Rating: Good
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Xilk wrote:
there are already pets more effective than nazuna with higher level cap and stronger attacks.

cheap... well only merle is cheaper I think. situational. others are not far.

Unless it's better and cheaper at the same time, Nazuna is going to stay my staple.
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#35 Mar 11 2011 at 3:53 PM Rating: Decent
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svlyons wrote:
Xilk wrote:
there are already pets more effective than nazuna with higher level cap and stronger attacks.

cheap... well only merle is cheaper I think. situational. others are not far.

Unless it's better and cheaper at the same time, Nazuna is going to stay my staple.


But face it, at 99 cap, Nazuna will simply be too weak. It will usually spawn at levels 94-96.
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#36Innuendoze, Posted: Mar 11 2011 at 3:59 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Sieghard's 1k more than Nazuna on my server. How poor can you be?
#37 Mar 11 2011 at 5:03 PM Rating: Good
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OmegaTyrant wrote:
svlyons wrote:
Xilk wrote:
there are already pets more effective than nazuna with higher level cap and stronger attacks.

cheap... well only merle is cheaper I think. situational. others are not far.

Unless it's better and cheaper at the same time, Nazuna is going to stay my staple.


But face it, at 99 cap, Nazuna will simply be too weak. It will usually spawn at levels 94-96.

Which is why I prefaced what I said with "when the level cap goes up to 95".
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#38 Mar 12 2011 at 11:24 AM Rating: Good
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OmegaTyrant wrote:
svlyons wrote:
Xilk wrote:
there are already pets more effective than nazuna with higher level cap and stronger attacks.

cheap... well only merle is cheaper I think. situational. others are not far.

Unless it's better and cheaper at the same time, Nazuna is going to stay my staple.


But face it, at 99 cap, Nazuna will simply be too weak. It will usually spawn at levels 94-96.


you should double check Bookmarku's testing above. when pet is capped, it will spawn at cap every time. Its trying to spawn between 0~2 levels below you. that will pull it to cap when you are at least 2 levels higher than the cap.
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#39 Mar 13 2011 at 4:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Sieghard's 1k more than Nazuna on my server. How poor can you be?


Over 3 times nazuna on gilgamesh and way less hp to boot. Anna has almost the same hp and is only twice the cost. Hope that stays true on carbuncle. Fireball/Aoelian edge aoe killing could be nice.
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#40 Mar 13 2011 at 8:36 PM Rating: Good
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louispv wrote:
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Sieghard's 1k more than Nazuna on my server. How poor can you be?


Over 3 times nazuna on gilgamesh and way less hp to boot. Anna has almost the same hp and is only twice the cost. Hope that stays true on carbuncle. Fireball/Aoelian edge aoe killing could be nice.

On Bahamut nazuna has now gone up from 5k to 8k, sieghard 5k, anna 20k.
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#41 Mar 30 2011 at 8:59 AM Rating: Good
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Not sure if this is well known, but throwing it out there.

Courier Carrie:
She has a lot going against her. 75 Cap, Weak melee stats and she doesn't benefit from the performance boost seen in lv 76+ pet. However she has 1 unique benefit that may be of some use.

Bubble Curtain = MDT-50%

Stacks with Atmas.
I Assume it stack with Gear and Traits as well.

DG + Curtain Caused CC to take 0 damage from magical attacks until the Curtain's effect wears off or is dispelled. I tried it out and she was taking 0 damage from Stonega III, Drain and Stone V. I'll stress again that CC caps at 75, and has very weak melee stats. Accuracy and Attack are horrendous, I am uncertain if Atmas and full merits will counter this to any notable degree.

Assuming Bubble Curtain stacks with Gear and Traits, Outside Abyssea you can attain MDT-70% from Curtain, Moogle Hat, Shepard's Chain, and AF+2, Job Trait.


Fatso Fargann:
Has Native PDT-25% vs Blunt Damage
Effect stacks with Atmas and gear.

IE. DG alone will grant you PDT-80% against "Blunt" Attacks
(DG= -50%, BST Trait= -5%, Pet Trait = -25%)

Add in a few PDT Gear and you can easily obtain PDT-100%

Seems to work on any Attack or TP Ability that is considered "Blunt".
Most effective against monsters like Mandies, Tauri, Crabs(?), Slime(?),
and Beastmen using H2H, clubs or staff.





Edited, Mar 30th 2011 11:02am by GagBag

Edited, Mar 30th 2011 11:03am by GagBag
#42 Mar 30 2011 at 12:45 PM Rating: Good
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GagBag wrote:
Bubble Curtain = MDT-50%

I believe Bubble Curtain is 50% Magic Defense Bonus, which is not as potent as straight minus Magic Damage Taken.
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#43 Mar 30 2011 at 1:38 PM Rating: Good
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svlyons wrote:
GagBag wrote:
Bubble Curtain = MDT-50%

I believe Bubble Curtain is 50% Magic Defense Bonus, which is not as potent as straight minus Magic Damage Taken.


Like I said. When I used Bubble Curtain combined with Ducal Guard all magic damage (Spells and Attacks) were dealing 0 damage to CC, this is while fighting monsters that con DC to level 90. I know "Shell" is what appears in the log, and "Magic Defense" is what is stated in the description, but It just does not add up. CC wasn't just resisting the spells, she was flat out taking 0 damage from every form of magical attack... so it leads me to believe that it Magic Damage Taken and not Magic Defense Bonus... perhaps someone with more experience can shed some light on it.

I was fighting Amoebans while testing it out. Stonega III, Stone V, Nucleic Implosion, Vacuole Discharge, and Osmosis were all doing 0 damage while Ducals and Bubble Curtain was up. Osmosis would dispel the "Shell" effect however.

Edited, Mar 30th 2011 3:56pm by GagBag
#44 Mar 30 2011 at 3:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Bubble Curtain by default gives a -50% Shell (MDT) effect. I'm assuming this is what Carrie has. Don't take ability descriptions 100% seriously; even the description for the Shell spells say they "enhance magic defense", and if you're interpreting that to mean "Magic Defense Bonus" specifically, you would be incorrect. ****, don't always take the chat log 100% seriously either; Boost clearly says it "enhances attacks" even though it only enhances the next ONE attack. :|

There are a few crabs out there that use an altered version of the move and gain (undispellable) MDB from it instead, as indicated in the chat log. Nightmare Crabs in Dynamis are one, as is the T1 VNM Sunderclaw.
#45 Mar 30 2011 at 9:16 PM Rating: Good
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How long does Bubble Curtain last? It requires 3 charges so use and the lvl 75 CC would probably take that long to get 100% TP anyway lol. But very interesting observation.
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#46 Mar 30 2011 at 11:18 PM Rating: Good
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GagBag wrote:
svlyons wrote:
GagBag wrote:
Bubble Curtain = MDT-50%

I believe Bubble Curtain is 50% Magic Defense Bonus, which is not as potent as straight minus Magic Damage Taken.


Like I said. When I used Bubble Curtain combined with Ducal Guard all magic damage (Spells and Attacks) were dealing 0 damage to CC, this is while fighting monsters that con DC to level 90. I know "Shell" is what appears in the log, and "Magic Defense" is what is stated in the description, but It just does not add up. CC wasn't just resisting the spells, she was flat out taking 0 damage from every form of magical attack... so it leads me to believe that it Magic Damage Taken and not Magic Defense Bonus... perhaps someone with more experience can shed some light on it.

I was fighting Amoebans while testing it out. Stonega III, Stone V, Nucleic Implosion, Vacuole Discharge, and Osmosis were all doing 0 damage while Ducals and Bubble Curtain was up. Osmosis would dispel the "Shell" effect however.

Edited, Mar 30th 2011 3:56pm by GagBag


This is actually a pretty interesting way to get 100% -dt w/out dealing w/ Winged Gloom Slip damage or the loss of Razed Ruin.
You will want max Beast affinity Merits, which will bring carrie up to level 85.
Remember Carrie is a PLD however. Carrie will NOT get Critical Attack bonus or Fencer. Carrie will not likely have much hp. I've not done any HP tests w/ carrie, but I still have a stack, so Its pretty cheap to go test in abyssea a little later.
Also of note: Carrie does blunt damage unlike most 76+ pets which are slashing damage.

You will still be sacrificing ALOT of damage output, but it might be a reliable/cheap way to have a near perfect tank.
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#47 Mar 31 2011 at 7:07 AM Rating: Good
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Re: Courrier Carrie
 
BA Merits     Healing Salve I Amount      Max HP 
    0                 1563                 3126 (lvl 75) 
    1                 1621                 3242 (lvl 77) 
    2                 1679                 3358 (lvl 79) 
    3                 1737                 3474 (lvl 81) 
    4                 1794                 3588 (lvl 83) 
    5                 1852                 3704 (lvl 85)


According to an old parse of CourrierCarrie's HP, she had around 3100 max HP at 75 cap (source: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=8;mid=1154349714272652939;num=16;page=1) so I'll take the 3126 HP as the level 75 value. CC gains about 58 HP per level, so the max HP table looks like:
 
Level    Max HP 
 75       3126       
 76      (3184) 
 77       3242 
 78      (3300) 
 79       3358 
 80      (3416) 
 81       3474 
 82      (3532) 
 83       3588 
 84      (3646) 
 85       3704


I used Familiar on a level 85 CC and Healing Salve I healed 2037 HP, so the max HP that CC can have (before atma) is 4074.

Edited, Mar 31st 2011 9:09am by Bookmarku
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#48 Mar 31 2011 at 2:36 PM Rating: Good
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How long does Bubble Curtain last? It requires 3 charges so use and the lvl 75 CC would probably take that long to get 100% TP anyway lol. But very interesting observation.


Since Bubble Curtain's potency is always the same, I've thought that it might be possible that its duration varies with TP. But that's just a theory; I have absolutely nothing to back that up. I don't see the effect lasting longer than a minute or so, in any case.
#49 Mar 31 2011 at 5:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Fynlar wrote:
How long does Bubble Curtain last? It requires 3 charges so use and the lvl 75 CC would probably take that long to get 100% TP anyway lol. But very interesting observation.


Since Bubble Curtain's potency is always the same, I've thought that it might be possible that its duration varies with TP. But that's just a theory; I have absolutely nothing to back that up. I don't see the effect lasting longer than a minute or so, in any case.



Timed Bubble Curtains well over 3 mins. Was able to recover 3 charges and CC was still taking 0 damage from magical attacks. I would says its 4~5 mins duration.
#50 Mar 31 2011 at 9:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Timed Bubble Curtains well over 3 mins. Was able to recover 3 charges and CC was still taking 0 damage from magical attacks. I would says its 4~5 mins duration.


Interesting; I know Scissor Guard doesn't last anywhere near that long >_>

At least, when (giant) enemy crabs use it. Maybe BST pets are different, idk
#51 Apr 01 2011 at 12:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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Took all the HP tests and listed them together. Only listed HP at 85+.

Pet			Level	85	86	87	88	89	90 
Crafty Clyvonne		76	(4531)	(4602)	(4673)	4744	4814	4886 
Dipper Yuly		76	(3360)	(3412)	(3464)	3516	3568	3620 
Flowerpot Merle		76	(4230)	(4352)	(4416)	4480	4544	4608 
Lucky Lulush		76	(4024)	(4088)	(4152)	4216	4280	4344 
Nursery Nazuna		76	5030	5114	(5190)	5272	5350	5430 
Discreet Louise		79	(3777)	(3836)	(3895)	3954	(4013)	4072 
Fatso Fargann		81	(3525)	(3580)	(3635)	3690	3744	3800 
Presto Julio		83	(4024)	(4088)	(4152)	4216	4280	4344 
Audacious Anna		85	4530	(4599)	(4671)	4744	4814	4886 
Mailbuster Cetas	85	(4024)	(4088)	(4152)	4216	4280	4344 
Swift Sieghard		86		(4088)	(4152)	4216	4280	4344 
Bloodclaw Shasra	90						4616 
Bugeyed Broncha		90						4344


Listed by maximun HP.
Pet			Level	85	86	87	88	89	90 
Dipper Yuly		76	(3360)	(3412)	(3464)	3516	3568	3620 
Fatso Fargann		81	(3525)	(3580)	(3635)	3690	3744	3800 
Discreet Louise		79	(3777)	(3836)	(3895)	3954	(4013)	4072 
Bugeyed Broncha		90						4344 
Lucky Lulush		76	(4024)	(4088)	(4152)	4216	4280	4344 
Mailbuster Cetas	85	(4024)	(4088)	(4152)	4216	4280	4344 
Presto Julio		83	(4024)	(4088)	(4152)	4216	4280	4344 
Swift Sieghard		86		(4088)	(4152)	4216	4280	4344 
Flowerpot Merle		76	(4230)	(4352)	(4416)	4480	4544	4608 
Bloodclaw Shasra	90						4616 
Crafty Clyvonne		76	(4531)	(4602)	(4673)	4744	4814	4886 
Audacious Anna		85	4530	(4599)	(4671)	4744	4814	4886 
Nursery Nazuna		76	5030	5114	(5190)	5272	5350	5430

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