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Sidewinder @ 54-55Follow

#1 Feb 06 2010 at 7:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Hello

i just reactivated my account a few months back, started leveling my RNG again.

my question is what my sidewinder should be doing at 54-55. i just had a Lesser Colibri party and it was doing 725-775 consistently. seems like i remember it doing more than that at this level but i forget.

Debuffs on mob were only Dia II, equipment is 2x Hawkers knifes, war Bow +1, Scorpion Arrows, Hunter Beret, Rangers Necklace, 2x drone earing, Brigandine, Hunter's Bracers, Carapace Ring+1 x2, Nomad's Mantle, Royals Knights belt+1, Jaridah salvars, Leeping Boots. Lvl 2 archery merits.

i was not using food because we didn't have a proper tank so i tanked 50% of the time and would constantly loose food. i am lvl 55 with my archery skill caped from leveling SAM. anyways i am just really looking to see if i am doing around the right damage @ 54-55, any tips from some pro rangers would be much appreciated!

Edit: i am also Galka.

Thanks!!

Edited, Feb 6th 2010 8:38pm by Verexenus
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#2 Feb 06 2010 at 11:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Your damage is about right. You would see bigger numbers if you were eating attack food or had an attack buff. As your level goes up you will be seeing bigger numbers.

What you are experiencing is what I find so sad about ranger, you are limited. The potential is there but there is always something holding you back.
#3 Feb 07 2010 at 11:50 AM Rating: Good
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Did you have a brd in the party? I'm guessing no. If no brd and no food, you numbers look about right.

Synced at 55 with a brd keeping songs up and eating subs I was doing 1200-1300, with a couple highs of 1600. My best was a 1680 + 600 to close a SC. When I ran out of subs and brd missed songs, I was hitting around 700-800 with highs of 1100.

My gear isn't great and I have no arch merits. 2x hawkers, V. Bow, scorp arrows, Hunter's beret, rng necklace, 2x drone, Shikaree Aketon, Jaridah Bazubands, 2x Carapace Ring+1, Nomad's Mantle, Royals Knights belt, Jaridah salvars, Bounding Boots

Edited, Feb 7th 2010 4:29pm by RobbyFaces
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#4 Feb 08 2010 at 3:07 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
i was not using food because we didn't have a proper tank so i tanked 50% of the time and would constantly loose food


Always use food. Im not saying pull out the pricey sushi for birds. But sausages are dirt cheap and add 30 RATT. That's more than you can get from most gear at that level. If you go through 3 stacks in a party, that's about 5k total. Sell an imperial gold coin from the IS points and you've made up that and more.
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#5 Feb 08 2010 at 7:21 PM Rating: Default
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Depending on your accuracy, try swapping in more +str in ring, ear, feet, legs, etc. You will start seeing slightly better numbers. The real drawback and one that would truly help you the most is swapping that warbow +1 out for Vali's/Ebow or even a selene's
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#6 Feb 08 2010 at 9:48 PM Rating: Decent
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oh wow i didnt know about the sausages and they are dirt cheep, i will use them from now on in bird parties. thanks a ton guys.
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#7 Feb 09 2010 at 12:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Aryden wrote:
Depending on your accuracy, try swapping in more +str in ring, ear, feet, legs, etc. You will start seeing slightly better numbers. The real drawback and one that would truly help you the most is swapping that warbow +1 out for Vali's/Ebow or even a selene's
Your accuracy under these conditions (54-55, not using +r.acc food) is very unlikely to justify removal of r.acc gear for slugwinder. Also, v/e-bow is level 55, and s-bow is 60. I haven't tested those bows under level sync, but unless someone has actually demonstrated that they are better than the war +1, I'd just stick with that.

You could, if you wanted to, upgrade to Bodkin arrows (at least for WS). They're only 4 more damage, they're not quiverable, and they tend to be expensive and/or difficult to find.
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#8 Feb 09 2010 at 3:08 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Your accuracy under these conditions (54-55, not using +r.acc food) is very unlikely to justify removal of r.acc gear for slugwinder. Also, v/e-bow is level 55, and s-bow is 60. I haven't tested those bows under level sync, but unless someone has actually demonstrated that they are better than the war +1, I'd just stick with that.

You could, if you wanted to, upgrade to Bodkin arrows (at least for WS). They're only 4 more damage, they're not quiverable, and they tend to be expensive and/or difficult to find.



Malarky, there is a reaseon i said "depending on your accuracy". At 55 he has access to more Racc gear now than I had when I levelled Rng, combined with food, there is no reason he shouldnt be able to swap out a few pieces to str. It's testing, you miss too much, you change some str to racc and continue on.

Yes the v/e bow is level 55 (the title is Sidewinder @54-55) so yeah, no level syncing necessary. I pretty much think its a given, the V/E bow @ 55 trumphs the ******* out of the war bow +1.

Bodkin arrows are retarded. if you're going to swap at that level, go with Fire, Ice, Lightning or even obsidian, higer damage, and higher delay for possibly better tp return.
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#9 Feb 10 2010 at 1:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Aryden wrote:
Malarky, there is a reaseon i said "depending on your accuracy".
You might as well have said "depending on if monkeys fly out of your ***". My point is that it's just not happening.

Aryden wrote:
combined with food, there is no reason he shouldnt be able to swap out a few pieces to str. It's testing, you miss too much, you change some str to racc and continue on.
It was explicitly stated that he wasn't using food. You want to spam sushi or pot at colibri, that's a different discussion. But you also seem to be forgetting the huge accuracy penalty on slugwinders to start with. Even if you don't need the r.acc gear to cap accuracy during TP, you WILL need it for WS unless you plan to TP to 200 or something every time.

Aryden wrote:
Yes the v/e bow is level 55 (the title is Sidewinder @54-55) so yeah, no level syncing necessary. I pretty much think its a given, the V/E bow @ 55 trumphs the dogsh*t out of the war bow +1.
And since half of the scenario is level 54, I think it should be pretty obvious that my comments regarding sync were pertaining to when it actually applies. I mean, no **** v/e is better once you ding 55.

Aryden wrote:
Bodkin arrows are retarded. if you're going to swap at that level, go with Fire, Ice, Lightning or even obsidian, higer damage, and higher delay for possibly better tp return.
Again, you're neglecting the accuracy. Granted that r.acc +5 isn't a lot, but neither is DMG +1 or +2. All of the arrows mentioned could be a potential improvement over scorps, but you're going to have to try a lot harder to convince me that any of the arrows you mentioned are specifically better than bodkin, aside from possibly the elemental arrows being easier and/or cheaper to get.
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#10 Feb 10 2010 at 10:51 PM Rating: Default
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I'm sorry but, you arent going to have THAT big of an issue even at 55 with sidewinder. I have a Rng in my shell now that just hit 55 using **** gear, NQ noct and the like and he is still landing consistent 800+ sidewinders.

Quote:
You might as well have said "depending on if monkeys fly out of your ***". My point is that it's just not happening.


The point is, test it, if you can swap out your ammo to elemental arrows and swap a +racc ring out for rajas and still land your sidewinders, youre stupid not to.

Quote:
so i tanked 50% of the time and would constantly loose food


He didnt say he didnt USE food, he said it was getting eaten constantly.

Quote:
Lvl 2 archery merits.


Capped skil for level +4 skill from merits, he is already ahead of the game on most other rangers out there as far as racc goes. His current +racc from gear alone is +51 combines with skill merits +55. With ammo +60. sacking 5 racc to equip in a higher damage ammo isnt going to kill your setup.

Edited, Feb 10th 2010 11:52pm by Aryden
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#11 Feb 12 2010 at 10:12 PM Rating: Good
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I'm sorry but, you arent going to have THAT big of an issue even at 55 with sidewinder. I have a Rng in my shell now that just hit 55 using sh*t gear, NQ noct and the like and he is still landing consistent 800+ sidewinders


At 55 he likely is using jaridah (or he should be). But I recall those levels vividly and without sushi or a BRD, it was impossible to hit slugwinders accurately without 150-200 tp.
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#12Aryden, Posted: Feb 13 2010 at 1:04 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) It was?
#13 Feb 14 2010 at 7:08 AM Rating: Decent
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VxSote wrote:
and s-bow is 60. I haven't tested those bows under level sync, but unless someone has actually demonstrated that they are better than the war +1, I'd just stick with that.


S.Bow is pretty horrible under sync. The one thing that makes it worth crap(Racc/Ratk) doesn't work at all. Really disappointing, but I don't know why I expected otherwise. I'm comparing it to Ebow at same level as I no longer owned a War bow by that point(And E.Bow was borrowed;_;)

OP: I know it's just for a couple levels, but you really should buy a Jaridah Peti. 58+ you're going to be using AF body, but it doesn't seem to sync very well at all(You will probably get a lot of 55-57 parties still).

With no Brd or and no food my Sidewinders weren't to far off from yours at all(at that level). Depending on the Brd, they usually got to around 1-1.2k.
Used "Depending" because some Brd's thought I might have a use for Madrigal or March :/
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#14 Feb 14 2010 at 12:47 PM Rating: Good
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Aryden wrote:
Quote:
so i tanked 50% of the time and would constantly loose food


He didnt say he didnt USE food, he said it was getting eaten constantly.

This is borderline dishonesty. The actual sentence that you chopped that citation out of was:

Quote:
i was not using food because we didn't have a proper tank so i tanked 50% of the time and would constantly loose food.

It is difficult to accept the exclusion of the beginning of the sentence where he specifically states "i was not using food" as a mere mistake of reading comprehension when the correction of that mistake would completely obliterate your entire premise.

If you're going to make a point, at least try to make an intellectually honest one.

Edited, Feb 14th 2010 10:48am by redvenomweb
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#15Aryden, Posted: Feb 16 2010 at 3:58 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) There is no dishonesty there. He either wasnt using food at all, or he stopped because it was all eaten, OR he wasnt not counting the food because it was eaten quickly. I was clarifying the statement. The verbage "and would constantly loose food" indicates that at some point he was and it was being taken therefor being counted as "not using food".
#16 Feb 17 2010 at 11:53 AM Rating: Decent
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It was?


Yes it was. I don't know what amazing gear you had at that level but at 55 other than jaridah there's not a whole lot of RACC boosting options. And lesser colibri are pretty **** evasive until you get to level 58. Firing slugwinder at 100 tp negates most of your RACC gear and ACC bonus trait i one fell swoop. You're relying on your capped Archery/marksmanship skill which is A-. Most melee at that level need some help to hit accurately and they don't have innate RACC- traits on their WS's.

I'd suggest you level sync down to 55 and try to hit those birds without food or a bard/corsair. Let me know what your acc with SW at 100 tp is.
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#17 Feb 18 2010 at 1:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Meh, send them all to RoTZ and see if they can still exp.
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#18 Feb 18 2010 at 3:53 PM Rating: Good
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I'd laugh my *** off, watching post-ToAU players heading out to LoO for Torama. ****, I've seen people try Ule Range Demon parties, because the *** Candy was gone. Sorta funny when 5 of 6 ppl die just trying to get there.
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#19 Feb 18 2010 at 4:28 PM Rating: Decent
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I'd suggest you level sync down to 55 and try to hit those birds without food or a bard/corsair. Let me know what your acc with SW at 100 tp is.


I have and i still used my level 75 gear synced to nearly no bonuses. Yet, i still didnt have a problem landing 85%+. Given some merits kick in and offset the fact that 75 gear synced at 55 doesnt provide much of anything, but still. if youre having that big of a problem at 55 landing sidewinder then you do need to reevaluate your setup. I didnt have that big of an issue at 55 (and this was pre toau, pre rng buffs/nerf) and i dont have that big of an issue while synced.

Quote:
Meh, send them all to RoTZ and see if they can still exp.


I've done this with people from my shell. It's brutal watching them think they can go ******* on a mob and kill it, when it just turns and eats their faces off.
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#20 Feb 18 2010 at 5:10 PM Rating: Good
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Aryden wrote:

Quote:
I didnt have that big of an issue at 55 (and this was pre toau, pre rng buffs/nerf) and i dont have that big of an issue while synced.


Back then ranger didn't have the accuracy penalty that it obtained in the nerf. On top of that, there hasn't been that much gear introduced to the point of level 55 that's any different than pre-ToAU.

The Hq version Akinji has a total of 12 racc which you could obtain pre-ToAU easily for more through racc gear and agi gear. Also, ranger didn't gain any accuracy boost at all since the nerf.

If you are in the same condition as the OP (no buffs or food) and landing sidewinder 85% of the time, which has a huge accuracy penalty at 100 tp, then you are way over cap in racc on your regular shots.

You must be special because that's amazing racc without buffs or food on an IT+ mob.

Edited, Feb 18th 2010 10:40pm by carlcarl
#21 Feb 19 2010 at 11:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I have and i still used my level 75 gear synced to nearly no bonuses. Yet, i still didnt have a problem landing 85%+. Given some merits kick in and offset the fact that 75 gear synced at 55 doesnt provide much of anything, but still. if youre having that big of a problem at 55 landing sidewinder then you do need to reevaluate your setup


What setup is there that could be improved at 55? About the only thing most RNG's may not have at that level would be a PCC (5 RACC more than Ranger's necklace). There just isn't a lot of RACC gear at 55. You've got rings and Jaridah and your Hunter's knives. The only setup to improve RACC would be to eat sushi and live with it being stolen or get a BRD or COR in the party.

Maybe the problem is we view different percentages of missing SW as acceptable. I would like to hit SW at 95% cap at 100 tp. That's the best damage I can do. Hitting at 80% results in a significant damage drop that can't be made up for in gear to boost SW's damage. At 55 without sushi or BRD or COR, its nigh on impossible to get to 95% on 100 tp SW, so you either live with lesser accuracy or you build more TP. I chose the latter because missing was less acceptable to me than shooting an extra shot or two to get better RACC.
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#22 Feb 19 2010 at 2:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I've done this with people from my shell. It's brutal watching them think they can go apesh*t on a mob and kill it, when it just turns and eats their faces off.


lol!

Demons are definitely a bad choice for those who aren't ready for it and on their game, but Ule is a camp I love just because of the exclusivity.

You would have laughed I suggested Raptors in Volbow when all bird camps were full and 4/6 didn't even know where it was.

"wow no thanks that sounds far away"

I mean common even in the old days some exp areas were great. I remember getting 16~18k/hr @ darter camp, but then again that was 4rng brd & whm prenerf.
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#23 Feb 20 2010 at 2:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Back then ranger didn't have the accuracy penalty that it obtained in the nerf. On top of that, there hasn't been that much gear introduced to the point of level 55 that's any different than pre-ToAU.

The Hq version Akinji has a total of 12 racc which you could obtain pre-ToAU easily for more through racc gear and agi gear. Also, ranger didn't gain any accuracy boost at all since the nerf.

If you are in the same condition as the OP (no buffs or food) and landing sidewinder 85% of the time, which has a huge accuracy penalty at 100 tp, then you are way over cap in racc on your regular shots.

You must be special because that's amazing racc without buffs or food on an IT+ mob.


Akinji wasnt released until ToAu. (marid and karakul leather needed). The only other piece at the time for rng with ANYWHERE near that amount of racc on it was the AF body..at 58.

Here ya go, pre TOAU Racc setup: (read: racc, not str setup)

Main/sub: Hawker's x2 (+22 racc)
Neck: PCC (+10 racc)
Body: Noct +1 (+3 racc)
hands: Noct +1 (+2 racc)
legs: Noct +1 (+2 racc)
Feet: Repub. Sub (+4 outside nation control)
Rings: Scorpion +1 x2 (+16 racc)

Total: +55 (+59 outside nation control)
add in racc bonus from traits: (+35)
beyond that you might have something like +20 agi or so (+10 racc)

all in all, before food you're looking at something like +100 racc right there, pre akinji, pre most of the crap people use today. And this doesnt include food bonuses if you used sushi.

The '05 nerf was to racc/ratt based on your range to your target, the same "nerf" that applies today. The only thing it kept us from doing is standing toe to toe with mobs and tping with ratt's and melee weapons, which some of us are still doing today.

Quote:
If you are in the same condition as the OP (no buffs or food) and landing sidewinder 85% of the time, which has a huge accuracy penalty at 100 tp, then you are way over cap in racc on your regular shots.


Not necessarily, you can still be under racc cap and land 85% of your slugwinders. And maybe you be smart and NOT fire off at 100% and actually hold for a few more shots to get better tp acc. Its all about what works.

Youre missing a vital point to all of this, and that is, gear for the situation you are in and do your job. If youre not getting outside buffs, and your enot using food, let go of the fire/vulcans, sub ninja and dual wield some hawkers or put on other gear instead of +str gear everywhere.


Quote:
You would have laughed I suggested Raptors in Volbow when all bird camps were full and 4/6 didn't even know where it was.


Man i loved pulling those... enhanced movement speed and all lol. You didnt get back to camp unscathed w/o being on point with that utsu macro.

Other areas: Darters/Steelshells, Ro'Maeve/Sky, Manticores in Vollbow, Spiders in Dragon's Airy, Bones in gustav tunnel / KRT..., AND lets not leave out Gobs in bibiki bay that can 1 shot melees with bomb toss.

"Holy sh*t CHAIN 6!!!! THIS PT IS AWESOME!"

These **** kids have no idea how easy it is for them now. I mean sh*t, we used to be the PULLERS for parties, can you imagine these new rngs trying to pull xp mobs like darters and raptors? now THATS LOLS

Edited, Feb 20th 2010 3:43am by Aryden

Edited, Feb 20th 2010 3:45am by Aryden
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#24 Feb 20 2010 at 5:33 AM Rating: Good
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Aryden wrote:
The '05 nerf was to racc/ratt based on your range to your target, the same "nerf" that applies today.

Just to clarify, the '05 nerf was not an RATK reduction; it was a straight -damage% reduction. There is a significant difference.
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#25 Feb 20 2010 at 3:30 PM Rating: Good
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Aryden, I was referring to your answer where you claim to have synced down to 55, fired your SW at 100% tp with no food or buffs from support jobs. You claimed to land SW 85% of the time which is *********

From the tests posted, SW has a huge racc penalty at 100% tp.

Also, in regards to you saying that today's gear is much better is also bs. I looked up and without trying too hard I came up with 13 racc in gear (agi can be converted to racc as well) which is 1 more racc than the Akinji set (given that is expensive for a job that's already very expensive to begin with).

Sync again and parse. You'd be surprised.
#26 Feb 21 2010 at 1:28 AM Rating: Default
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The damage and accuracy of a player’s ranged attack are now calculated based on the distance of the player from the monster. This determination varies from weapon to weapon, as does the ideal distance for maximum damage. In addition, the higher the monster’s level is with regard to the player, the less damage will be dealt with a ranged attack.


You are correct RVB, my apologies for using RATT in the incorrect manner.

Quote:
Aryden, I was referring to your answer where you claim to have synced down to 55, fired your SW at 100% tp with no food or buffs from support jobs. You claimed to land SW 85% of the time which is bullsh*t.

From the tests posted, SW has a huge racc penalty at 100% tp.

Also, in regards to you saying that today's gear is much better is also bs. I looked up and without trying too hard I came up with 13 racc in gear (agi can be converted to racc as well) which is 1 more racc than the Akinji set (given that is expensive for a job that's already very expensive to begin with).

Sync again and parse. You'd be surprised.



I have syncd and parsed it, Akinja Peti is the most racc youre going to get on a body at 55. Hunter's Jerkin is 58 which is 3 levels higher than 55 and 4 more ranged accuracy. I also said that merits were kicking in, at 55 thats 6 merits, for 12 skill and roughly 24 racc. I dont get how you keep saying it is bs when clearly, it is entirely feasible.

again read here:

Quote:

Main/sub: Hawker's x2 (+22 racc)
Neck: PCC (+10 racc)
Body: Noct +1 (+3 racc)
hands: Noct +1 (+2 racc)
legs: Noct +1 (+2 racc)
Feet: Repub. Sub (+4 outside nation control)
Rings: Scorpion +1 x2 (+16 racc)

Total: +55 (+59 outside nation control)
add in racc bonus from traits: (+35)
beyond that you might have something like +20 agi or so (+10 racc)

all in all, before food you're looking at something like +100 racc right there, pre akinji, pre most of the crap people use today. And this doesnt include food bonuses if you used sushi.


Even w/o any Jaridah/Akinji youre racc is pretty **** high PRE TOAU gear. Put on an Akinji Peti and you get 3 more racc and 6 ratt to boot. You should NOT be having huge accuracy issues at 55 even w/o bard or cor or even food, IF you gear yourself appropriately. And that goes for all levels. Use the sh*t your SHOULD be using instead of what you feel like using and you'll probably do a bit better.

Edited, Feb 21st 2010 2:29am by Aryden
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#27 Feb 22 2010 at 4:00 AM Rating: Default
My $.02 says sidewinders versus Lesser Colibri are low end 1200 (no berserk, level 55), high end 2200 (berserk, sharpshot/str/att gear 59). Then again I precapped Archery merits and the girlie gifted me an Ebow... And statics with me on BRD... I love her.

Back on point, you should be RNG/WAR at 55-60 birds. Anything else is holding you back. Adjusting my playstyle was a small price to pay to see mobs drop at 50%, frequently higher with SC. You might not be able to fire a third shot until 30 seconds into the battle with Berserk up, but shaving the back end off of every other enemy really adds up to some quick xp.

After 5 or 10 bird parties blurred together, I got the playstyle down to the point I can use p-a-f +1 safely. Welll ok I ran out of NQ before I had to nut up and go HQ, but I got one to last for 45 minutes ^^. I leveled RNG to see scads of gil go down the drain in a blaze of magnificent glory, and that's exactly what I'm getting.
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There are two kinds of people in FFXI, those doing the laughing and those who don't know what's funny.
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